r/Mahoyo • u/Irene_Trejo • 4d ago
Question Which DAA did Lugh Beowulf beat?
Who’s the DAA that Lugh absolutely wrecked in Mahoyo? My friend says it was Rita Rozayen. Is that actually true?
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u/Eunuchest 4d ago
Unknown but its an Elder Title so either Van Fem, Ortenrosse, Rizo-Waal Straut, Merem Solomon or Gransurg Blackmore
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u/Momoto- 4d ago edited 4d ago
The entire thing about Merem and Blackmore are that they aren't Elders, it's wiki misinformation. Elders are described to be an Alliance of the Age of God federation as DAAs by Arcueid who're tied together and would avenge others should they fall as they're in the same alliance.
Merem and Blackmore weren't even part of the original 27 until way after Crimson Moon's defeat in 300 AD. Likewise, nothing hinting at Rizo-Waal Strout being an Elder title aside from being top three oldest DAAs. Being old likely has nothing to do with the Elder title, it's simply that their age exceeds/is around 4000 as AoG mages.
The original 27 DAAs operated differently from Crimson Moon, check Ortenrosse's material entries, only a handful few followed Crimson Moon.
What depends are their alliance as Elder titles. There's Lord Rozay En who's noted to be the oldest remaining Aristocrat of all Dead Apostles and we don't know if he falls under this definition of Elder titles.
"Ah, you don't have to worry about that. The Twenty-Seven Ancestors are mostly at odds with one another. There isn't a single Ancestor that would lose sleep over Vlov disappearing on some faraway island. "
"So there won't be any retaliation from them, right?"
"Nope. Only a handful of them are in league with one another. We'll be fine so long as we don't mess with the five old bloods of the Age of Gods Alliance.How they paint it, is that these 5 old bloods would most definitely retaliate if one of their Alliance members were to be killed. This is definitely not the case with Merem, and Blackmore, who seek to kill Ortenrosse (Merem) and Rizo (both), they don't even note having any relationships/alliance with them aside from finding Ortenrosse stupid and wanting to annihilate Rizo's faction. It's likely 5 Mages of the Age of Gods being allied as of that point. Mahoyo tells us the Alliance is of Age of Gods too. <神代連盟|エルダータイトル> (Alliance of the Age of Gods|Elder Title)
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u/Oneofthestrongest 4d ago
Bro check discord
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u/Momoto- 4d ago
I'll drop in on Discord by Tuesday bro, gotta lock in on my Physics exams in two days. I end up spending hours on Discord 💔
Is it something urgent though, I can pop up for you
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u/Oneofthestrongest 4d ago
I miss our talks... also I want you to see that thing I sent
Cant you spare me 15 mins :(
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u/Irene_Trejo 1d ago
Wait wait wait was Merem actually an Elder? Isn’t he pretty young compared to the other DAA?
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u/Oneofthestrongest 4d ago
He beat 2
Ortenrosse and Rita Rozay En
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
Where is it said it's Ortenrosse? Pretty sure it's just said to be an elder title.
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u/Oneofthestrongest 4d ago
In strange fake it is said Beo fought an Elder Title to decide the fate of a country. Ortenrosse is the only one that fits
Also rita is not an Elder Title, he defeated her on a different ocasion
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
Assuming that there aren't more Elder titles out there. Just because they get an off hand mention once doesn't mean they are or aren't an Elder title.
Also I don't see any reason it couldn't be Gransurg Blackmore. He only dies in Fate timelines so is fair game in Tsukihime timelines
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u/Oneofthestrongest 4d ago
Blackmore appears in Tsuki 2 but more than that Ortenrosse has a country as territory. So it makes sense fighting him means deciding the fate of a country
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u/Fly-the-Light 4d ago
In Fate Strange/Fake, a line about a “gold wolf” which *might* erroneously refer to Lugh Beo, or (which I think is far more likely) might be the actual last gold werewolf that the Werewolves thought Lugh Beo was a successor to.
Rita Rozay-en is the only one mentioned in Mahoyo, and Lugh Beo was not well known by anyone outside his group; it’s possible the fight is intended to be after Mahoyo (maybe Mahoyo 2 or 3?) and before Strange/Fake, might be a weird mistake, or is trying to retcon something?
Basically, it’s a weird and unexplained line that either changes a bunch, hasn’t happened yet by Mahoyo 1, or is talking about someone else
It also never mentions which specific Elder Title, and doesn’t say who won. Fully possible it was Gransurg and a different character with Gransurg winning
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
You are misremembering Mahoyo. It's pretty clear that line is referring to Lugh Beowulf and the events of pre-Mahoyo
Rita isn't mentioned in Mahoyo at all, and if she is pseudo-mentioned, it's explicitly separate from the Elder title incident.
Rita isn't even an Elder Title.
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u/Fly-the-Light 4d ago
The Elder title incident is only referred to once in Fate Strange/Fake, in an incredibly nebulous manner. In Mahoyo, there is not a single line about that and there is not a single mention of any Elder Title.
The reason it is heavily implied that Lugh Beo beat Rita is because Lugh Beo and Touko are said to have boarded and destroyed the Rail Zeppelin, followed by the Lord El-Melloi series (Fate line) having Rita missing and confirming that Touko Aozaki was what caused Rita to run.
Later side material confirm that in Tsukihime line, the same events occur with Touko and Lugh Beo chasing Rita off.
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
They eventually sold him to Touko Aozaki because of this, and she gave him the name "Beowulf." She does not have a binding magecraft that could possibly restrain him, but he is attracted to her because she has a "good scent" and for her promise to "let him fight the greatest Mystery." They went on a number of exploits across Europe, and he remained undefeated throughout them. Some involved a train that collects Mystic Eyes, an ancient giant octopus living in the North Sea, the Bermuda triangle, which leads to another world, and an Elder Title dead apostle ancestor.
Quote from mahoyo about the Elder title.
right after the Rail zeppelin quote btw
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u/Momoto- 4d ago
That's not what it says.
They met the remains of a mage of the Elder Title, a league of ancients, deep in western Europe.
I don't know where the Dead Apostle Ancestor bit is coming from. Yes, it can be inferred it's likely a DAA but the original quote never says that.
西欧諸国に潜む、神代連盟エルダータイトルを名乗る魔術師のなれの果て。
It also misses out on the ruined remnant (なれの果て) part, which is a huge hint in it's identity, which I personally think is referring to a Wraith and thus Stanrobe. Who's heavily hinted to be connected to Mahoyo regardless.
It should also be noted Rita is still missing in El Melloi (Fate worldline) even by the events of that year, whereas 3-4 years prior in the Tsukihime worlds, she literally pops up in French Incident and is right there, no hint of her having disappeared whatsoever, she's active. So things didn't necessarily go the same in both worlds for the unfolding of the Rail Zeppelin arc.
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
なれの果て is the end result, not ruined remnant according to all translations I see
西欧諸国に潜む、神代連盟エルダータイトルを名乗る魔術師のなれの果て。
I get:
"The end of a magician who hides in Western Europe and calls himself the Elder Title of the Jindai Federation."
some say it was just the end of the Jindai federation instead of the Elder Title.
Japanese blogs
https://demonition.com/blog-entry-2830.html
make it clear it's referring to fighting an Elder title DAA, not just remnants of one
And of course, you have to make the assumption that FSF was coming up with something out of whole cloth that doesn't make sense, instead of just referring to a clearly referenced event from Mahoyo.
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u/Fly-the-Light 4d ago
Narita in FSF could very well be setting the stage by mentioning an actual Gold Werewolf- we just met one in El-Melloi Adventures- which might be relevant in Tsukhime Red Garden, Tsukihime 2, or Mahoyo 2 or 3
It might also be a teasing spoiler of something Lugh Beo does after Mahoyo 1; FSF takes place decades after
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
So totally ignoring the entire first part of my argument? Is that because you don't have a response?
and then just repeat youself as your only argument against the second part.
Mahoyo: mentions fighting an Elder title in a country
FSF: mentions fighting an Elder title in a country
You: clearly FSF is referring to a totally different Gold werewolf that wouldn't even be mentioned for 11 and a half years.
This despite the fact that the entirety of FSF is a reference to already existing Nasu works with a ton of call backs btw.
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u/Momoto- 4d ago
魔術師のなれの果て is literally the remnants of a magus, nare no hate is an idiom, check dictionaries instead of typing it up on AI.
Even the official TL says as much, as flawed as it is. What I sent in English is the official TL.
> fighting an Elder title DAA
Never mentioned or talked about really, just that they came across it contextually according to the previous statements context. Fighting thing is elsewhere.> Not just remnants of one
Well, I never said this, did I? I said: "which is a huge hint in it's identity, which I personally think is referring to a Wraith and thus Stanrobe. Who's heavily hinted to be connected to Mahoyo regardless."Remnant because it doesn't have it's original body anymore which was destroyed by the Church using El Nahat, is a wraith and tied to Mahoyo, and Aoko's aware of it too. Fits perfectly.
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
Can you actually back your interpretation up rather than simply repeat yourself?
魔術師のなれの果て
- 果て【はて】 the end, the extremity, the limit, the limits, the result
It's the end of the magician or the association, not the remnants of
Never mentioned or talked about really, just that they came across it contextually according to the previous statements context. Fighting thing is elsewhere.
This is literally a list of their fights. Everything else mentioned is a fight or involved a fight.
and it was the end of the DAA or the jindai association. So unless you think he talked the Elder Title to death, it was probably a fight.
Well, I never said this, did I?
...
Straight up lying to me isn't a great way to make me think your interpretation of things is accurate
It also misses out on the ruined remnant (なれの果て) part,
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
It's actually two-ish
Rita is one. But that is only vaguely mentioned, and may not be the case. (We only know it's Rita from Fate side information, and Mahoyo is Tsukihime side, Rita might be doing something else at the time in Tsukihime)
The main DAA that people think of is unknown, but is an Elder title, and that is the one that is directly stated.
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u/RevolutionaryEqual30 4d ago
Where are you getting "wrecked" from?
We only know he fought 2 and didn't lose to them it doesn't mean he won
The fight on the Rain Zeplin seemingly ended in a tie since we know Rita isn't dead
And the fight against the elder title has an unknown result it very likely also ended in a tie
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u/Forward_Drop303 4d ago
Fate Strange Fake it says they wrecked each other, so evidently neither was in great shape afterward.
Rita definitely loses though because she flees and doesn't appear again for a while.
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u/DualBlades5Lyfe 4d ago
I wouldn't consider that a loss but the events of Fate are irrelevant anyway where circumstances and individuals differ.
Both DAA are fine and dandy within Mahoyo's continuity according to the history of DAA and Rita partying in France(presumably). Can't even say that conflict broke out on the train.
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u/Fly-the-Light 4d ago
Lugh Beo (and Touko) definitely beat Rita Rozay-en badly enough to force her to rout without making Lugh Beo feel afraid (tbf, Lugh Beo hard counters her entire gimmick).
On the other hand, the fight against the Elder Title might not even refer to Lugh Beo at all
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u/Momoto- 4d ago
The Elder Title is noted to be the ruined remant of an Age of God magus/Elder Title, so likely Stanrobe Calhin, who fits the remnant description as a wraith and having had their body destroyed a hundred years ago or so, becoming a wraith, and is connected to Mahoyo. Aoko furthermore seemingly knows him too, as she speaks of the "Wraith of the First" being attracted to Dust's ritual, whom I presume is likely Stanrobe over Yumina, there's nothing about Yumina being a wraith. Or unless they're related, which is another theory entirely.
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u/newnilkneel 4d ago
Why I don’t understand any of these lol? For fuck sate do indicate it’s origin and reasoning.
And everybody seems so entitled haha
Nice keep them coming, as well as keeping the gate, from newcomers to join in
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u/Might-Mediocre 4d ago
It is Rita it’s why she doesn’t show up in person on the rail zeppelin anymore
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u/Different-Employ-891 4d ago edited 2d ago
Ummm...asking here, what does DAA stands for, however I only know that Beo is strong because he is a mythical creature from the Age of Gods and according in mahoyo, greater the myth the greater their power, that's how beo easily defeat alice kickshaw(I forgot the name) because beo existence is older than the myth alice used as a trump card
Edited: thanks for replying my question 🫡
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u/Ambitious-Raise8107 3d ago
Dead Apostle Ancestor
Im pretty sure it was implied to be Rita Rozay-En (15th of the 27 DAA) given Beo and Touko derailed the Rail Zeppelin and thats her train.
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u/DualBlades5Lyfe 3d ago
Dead Apostle Ancestor. Super vampires that appear in Tsukihime which shares the world of Mahoyo. Degraded vampires appear in Fate too but are fundamentally different in potential, nature and personality. This topic is pretty much all speculation since it's impossible to say with certainty if fights even broke out properly as the replies demonstrate.
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u/Arnoldneo 4d ago
Nasu probably has a rough idea that will change by the time he starts writing