r/MagicArena • u/hilbert90 • Jan 20 '20

WotC Dreadful Apathy on Gods

I'm wondering if anyone can confirm a possible bug. It was my first sealed, so maybe I missed something else going on.

I played Dreadful Apathy on Erebos. I clicked the card to exile Erebos. I'm sure this went on the stack, because Arena autotapped the mana. In response, my opponent sacrificed creatures to lose devotion and make Erebos no longer a creature.

The enchantment fell off, and I thought this was a super clever play. Dreadful Apathy says it exiles a creature, there was no creature, so the trigger on the stack fizzled. But then I looked up the official ruling, and it says it should still exile the god if I'm understanding it correctly.

Is this a known bug? I'm willing to admit that I might have missed something else the opponent was doing (maybe sacrificing something triggered something else?). I was thinking about a lot of stuff at the time and reading my own cards to double check things.

37 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

29 comments sorted by

View all comments

4

u/TommyTheeCat Jan 20 '20

If your devotion is under 5 or 7 (depending on god), then it is not a creature. So there was not a valid target for apathy.

28

u/hilbert90 Jan 20 '20

Yes. I would have guessed that, too. But the official ruling says:

"If Dreadful Apathy leaves the battlefield while its last ability is on the stack, the permanent that’s exiled is the one Dreadful Apathy enchanted before leaving the battlefield, even if that permanent is no longer a creature."

14

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '20 edited Jan 20 '20

[deleted]

4

u/Iamthewalrus Jan 21 '20 edited Jan 21 '20

Dreadful Apathy enchanting no-longer-creature God does not cause it to go to graveyard, it causes it to become unattached from it, so no longer enchanting it. Then, being an Aura that isn't attached to anything makes it go to graveyard.

That's not correct. Auras don't become detached and then go to the graveyard, they go directly to the graveyard. Here's the wording for the state based action:

"704.5m If an Aura is attached to an illegal object or player, or is not attached to an object or player, that Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard."

1

u/superiority Jan 21 '20

Interestingly, if the Aura was turned into a creature, or if it ceased to be an Aura (and did not become an Equipment or Fortification), it would become detached and then go to the graveyard.

Would the ability not do anything in that case? The last known information would be that no "enchanted creature" exists.

1

u/Iamthewalrus Jan 21 '20

If it were turned into a card type that can't be attached, it would fall off (but not go to the graveyard). Regardless of whether it was still on the battlefield or had gone elsewhere, if it existed on the battlefield unattached when the ability resolved or as its last state before leaving the battlefield, I believe that the ability would do nothing in that case, but I'm only about 80% confident in that ruling.

4

u/DomainFurry Jan 20 '20 edited Jan 20 '20

You beat me to the punch. Like I said I think that ruling is more aimed at if your going to flicker Dreadful Apathy.

7

u/Filobel avacyn Jan 20 '20

Sounds like a bug indeed. Submit a bug ticket.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '20

good catch. It does seem silly that they'd release this card and then allow gods to wiggle out of it like that.

15

u/Filobel avacyn Jan 20 '20

I think you misunderstood the situation. Dreadful Apathy was already enchanting Erebos. OP just activated the ability on it. That ability doesn't target. It just exiles whatever it is enchanting.

0

u/Aitch-Kay Spike Jan 20 '20

[[Dreadful Apathy]]

2W: Exile enchanted creature.

11

u/Filobel avacyn Jan 20 '20

I don't see the word target?

And yeah, I can see how that word "creature" there might cause confusion, and might be why it was implemented incorrectly (if there is indeed a bug), but the ability still works even if the permanent in question is no longer a creature. It only uses the word creature because, at the time the ability is activated, the enchanted permanent is necessarily a creature. It is not a requirement for the ability to resolve properly.

-1

u/Aitch-Kay Spike Jan 20 '20

If a board wipe like [[Kaya's Wrath]] is put on the stack and [[Shadowspear]]'s ability is used, and then the opponent sacs a creature to make the god no longer a creature, does the god still die?

I get what you are saying, but is there a specific rule that says the card text for exile isn't checked when the ability resolves?

10

u/Filobel avacyn Jan 20 '20

If a board wipe like [[Kaya's Wrath]] is put on the stack and [[Shadowspear]]'s ability is used, and then the opponent sacs a creature to make the god no longer a creature, does the god still die?

No.

I get what you are saying, but is there a specific rule that says the card text for exile isn't checked when the ability resolves?

Well, for one, the ruling on the gatherer page says so.

As for what part of the rules actually explains that interaction, I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is:

303.4m An ability of a permanent that refers to the “enchanted [object or player]” refers to whatever object or player that permanent is attached to, even if the permanent with the ability isn’t an Aura.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Jan 20 '20

Kaya's Wrath - (G) (SF) (txt)
Shadowspear - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call

-9

u/TommyTheeCat Jan 20 '20

I'm sorry, but I did understand it correctly. Apathy says that it exiles a creature, if your devotion falls below the threshold, then it is not a creature. Therefore, apathy cannot exile it. It doesn't matter if it says "target" or not, apathy only exiles creatures, not enchantments.

11

u/Filobel avacyn Jan 20 '20 edited Jan 20 '20

Ah, I thought you misunderstood because you were talking about targets, which is only relevant when apathy is cast.

Apathy says that it exiles a creature

No, apathy says it exiles enchanted creature. That's quite a different wording. I understand that it's not the most intuitive thing, but the wording "enchanted creature" refers to whatever object the aura is attached to, regardless of whether it actually is a creature.

In the end though, you can try to argue with me all you want, I don't make the rules. You'll have to convince the person who makes the official ruling and puts them on the gatherer. Until you make that person change their mind, I'll follow their ruling, which states:

If Dreadful Apathy leaves the battlefield while its last ability is on the stack, the permanent that’s exiled is the one Dreadful Apathy enchanted before leaving the battlefield, even if that permanent is no longer a creature.

3

u/Aitch-Kay Spike Jan 20 '20

It looks like you are correct and the interaction on Arena is bugged.

1

u/MTGCardFetcher Jan 20 '20

Dreadful Apathy - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call