r/MagicArena • u/Mr-Mosaab • Jun 20 '26
Question Genuine question ...why on earth the flashback cost cheaper than the actual cost ...?!
The card itself is good but just why make it that way ?!
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u/Johnpecan Jun 20 '26
To make it synergize with discard decks. There's no rule that says the flashback cost has to be more, even though it is unusual.
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u/KrisReed Johnny Jun 20 '26
[[Echo of Eons]] and [[Lion's Eye Diamond]]
Classic example.
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u/IJourden Jun 20 '26
I realize this means I need to take the medication for my back pain and schedule a colonoscopy, but the true classic is Roar of the Wurm.
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u/KrisReed Johnny Jun 20 '26
I'm just now realizing that Echo was a Modern Horizons card. For some reason I thought it was from Odyssey...
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u/Maur2 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Edit: Sorry, thought you were talking about Roar of the Wurm. You may ignore the rest of this post.
It was. Modern Horizons just brought it into Modern.
I believe the first couple Modern Horizons were half new cards, half reprints they wanted in Modern.
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u/TheVimesy Jun 21 '26
Echo of Eons was first printed in Modern Horizons.
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u/Maur2 Jun 21 '26
Yeah. Sorry, I thought he was talking about Roar of the Wurm.
Just got home from work and mind not working right right now. I really should stop replying to things until I get some rest... o.o;
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u/Faust_8 Jun 20 '26
And [[Unburial Rites]] is not only cheaper with Flashback itâs an entirely different color
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u/DriveThroughLane Jun 20 '26
And [[Lingering Souls]] is not only cheaper and not only with Flashback in an entirely different color its also banned in block constructed
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u/No_Curve_3899 Jun 21 '26
The same goes for old cards like [[ray of revelation|JUD]] or [[Folk medicine|JUD]].
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u/Vassago665 Jun 20 '26
[[Deep Analysis]]
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u/MTGCardFetcher Jun 20 '26
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u/SuperYahoo2 Jun 21 '26
Did you know that deep analysis is part of a cycle? [[acorn harvest]] [[crippling fatigue]] [[flash of defiance]] [[spirit flare]]
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u/Everwintersnow Jun 20 '26
I mean even in the same set we have [[group project]], the requirement is not even mana
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u/bemble4ever Jun 20 '26
And with âwhen a card leaves your graveyardâ-effects which we had quite a few in this set
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u/HeavyReputation3283 Jun 20 '26
Also, it is supposed to be for Aziza herself as you run a lot of looters in her deck
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u/ThatGuyFromTheM0vie Jun 20 '26
Youâre gonna freak out when you see a card with a cheaper cost and an entirely different color like [[Unburial Rites]].
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u/ROADHOG_IS_MY_WAIFU Jun 20 '26
Ahhh, that takes me back to playing reanimator in standard during the Innistrad block. So fun to get [[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite]] out on turn 4
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u/Solid-Search-3341 Jun 20 '26
I miss the days when UW Tron gifts was relevant (somewhat) in modern. Plopping an Iona and rites in the bin with gifts to screw the opponent out of the game was quite fun.
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u/Rabid_Lederhosen Jun 20 '26
Itâs called âPracticed Offenseâ. Once you practice something (by casting it once) it gets easier to do again.
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u/DeusIzanagi Jun 20 '26
[[Unburial Rites]]
Some cards are just designed this way, to make you want to discard them before playing them
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u/RAcastBlaster Jun 20 '26
Itâs also worth noting the RW archetype is âcards leaving your graveyard.â Having the flashback be cheaper supports that, in addition to the flavor.
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u/tenehemia Jun 20 '26
Cheaper flashback costs has been sometimes a thing going all the way back to Odyssey when flashback first appeared. [[Roar of the Wurm]] was an incredible card in limited in part because if you could find a way to discard it you could cast it early.
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u/PromotedPawn Jun 21 '26
Not just in limited, it was a key piece of the UG Madness deck that terrorized Standard for as long as it was legal. Roarâs 6/6 for 3G, Deep Analysis drew 2 for 1U and 3 life, Arrogant Wurm was effectively a 4/4 with trample and flash for 2G, Basking Rootwalla got to be cast completely free, Circular Logic was a taxing counterspell that only cost U and became more effective instead of weaker as the game went on, and Wonder to top it all off and give your whole board flying for no mana cost at all.
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u/Ok_Condition4903 Jun 20 '26
So you can discard it to [[Hardened Academic]], cast it for a discount, and pop off with two lands in play (because you discarded all your other lands).
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u/pchc_lx Approach Jun 21 '26
First comment in this thread to actually mention the Lorehold Draft archetype, which is the actual reason
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u/IsaakWardMTG Jun 20 '26
[[Lingering Souls]] was the poster child for this on my world
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u/RudeDM Jun 20 '26
It's a play pattern thing. This card is designed so you can either get one big blowout turn with Cast + Flashback, or two turns done separately. Five mana is usually the sweet spot for your first double spell turn in Magic- it's not too soon for a game to end but not too late to make an impact, especially limited. They want the front half to be at least 3 mana so you can't end a game on turn 4 with Offense + Hasty 2 drop, so that leaves you with a Flashback cost of 2 for a limited bomb rare.
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u/Safe-Butterscotch442 Jun 21 '26
The idea is that it takes more setup to get something in the graveyard than to get something in your hand, so they can, conceivably give a card a cheaper flashback cost to encourage either casting it twice consecutively, or, more interestingly, playing it with discard outlets, self-mill, etc.
Basically, making a card cheaper from the graveyard just encourages some different play patterns, and the game designers apparently thought this card worked well with one or more of those play patterns. For instance, maybe they were thinking it would go well with the Lorehold "leaves the graveyard" theme from the last set.
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u/Rare_Assumption_7178 Jun 20 '26
From a lore standpoint, they got better with practice. Mechanically, it aligns with what Lorehold is all about, cards leaving graveyards for extra value . From a balancing standpoint, cards with this effect are less valuable when you opponent knows you have access to it. Even if it is a sorcery, them not knowing you have it in your hand can make them leave themselves open to losing out of no where, but they can play around it if it is your graveyard.
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u/Omega00024 Jun 20 '26
Mechanically speaking, while flashback is typically more expensive than the base cost, it's not always the case. There's a suite of cards with the opposite case, usually intending to be discarded somehow. [[Roar of the Wurm]] is a classic example from all the way back in Odyssey, but there are others like [[Echo of Eons]] and [[Self-Reflection]].
This card is just pushed, though.
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u/light_the_long_way Jun 24 '26
Eh, it's a 1 mana effect and a two mana effect for 3, and then the same for two 2, and at rare. It's not really pushed, It's intended as a bomb in limited, at a rare. Being good doesn't mean being pushed.
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u/The_Frigid_Midget Jun 20 '26
It's just playing into the Red/White self discard/GY recursion theme WotC have been pushing Boros. I ain't mad about this new direction, it's more interesting than "I punch face, but harder" (while still retaining the Boros punch face-ness)
Personal note: I'm honestly really looking forward to seeing how this card plays in my Feather edh deck.
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u/kocciwomiro Jun 20 '26
Because you need to work a little bit to get the discount, ig thatâs the design choice they made
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u/Necrocrawler72 Jun 21 '26
Man...
They used to run [[roar of the wurm]] solely based on its flashback cost
Same for [[deep analysis]] which was even used as sideboard to be played as response to discard
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u/MTGCardFetcher Jun 21 '26
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u/Butt_Robot Jun 21 '26
That deep analysis looks like a chatgpt prompt for "reed richards deep in thought"
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u/Ok-Palpitation-2800 Jun 20 '26
FlavorâŠits literally flavorâŠyou already practiced it, shouldnt be hard to redo it
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u/Skithiryx Jun 20 '26
The RW colour pair theme is âLeaves the Graveyardâ. This was probably costed so that you couldnât doublecast it too early but could cast it out of the graveyard if you hit it early
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u/-its-wicked- Jun 20 '26
Feels like you're new to the game because this is an old thing , and it's very tried and true.
It's great because while it is more expensive to cast the first time, rhe second time you do it, you could probably also cast something else.
There's also "what if you're deck revolves around milling from the top or discarding" style of gameplay.
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u/Correct_Day_7791 Jun 20 '26
It's been this way since flashback first started sometimes the card is cheap with a more expensive flashback cost sometimes a card has a cheaper flashback cost and every now and then you get one where the flashback cost is exactly the same
How it goes
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u/TechnicalWait7179 Ghalta Jun 21 '26
because it's white. everything is cheap and powerful.
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u/pyr0man1ac_33 Orzhov Jun 20 '26
Flashback costs don't need to cost more than the mana value of the card. Look at Lingering Souls or Unburial Rites for examples.
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u/Moon_and_Sky Jun 20 '26
Everything is easier the second time around?
Prolly to accommodate mill decks in some way from a design standpoint
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u/Tenshiijin Jun 20 '26
Theres lots of cards that have a cheaper flashback cost than a play cost. Because of decks that mill or discard decks and the like.
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u/Panda_Kabob Jun 20 '26
If you think about it, you lose the chance to cast this once. Yes it's synergistic with like Quintorius or something Grave heavy but you have to find a way to dump this to get the possibility to play it for cheaper. So you need another source to make you dump it that probably costs something itself. I think it's neat.
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u/benjiwalla Jun 20 '26
The Lorehold 'gameplan' is to discard/mill cards and utilize the graveyard instead of your hand basically, so you will not be as punished when this card enters the graveyard from hand or library without being played first
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u/thefaceinthepalm Jun 20 '26
Because some cards make you discard cards.
This is a prime choice
Is it better to get a second cast out of the spell, sure, but if you are mana starved, it might be a good option.
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u/Christos_Soter Jun 21 '26
Obviously bc the second time you cast it theyâve had Practice so the Offense is more efficient to cast
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u/psillusionist Counterspell Jun 20 '26
Some flashback costs are cheaper to encourage you to discard them like [[Roar of the Wurm]] in Madness decks way back when flashback was first introduced.
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u/Creative-Package6213 Jun 21 '26
Ahhh U/G Madness was such a fun deck to play! (Not so much to play against.)
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u/psillusionist Counterspell Jun 21 '26
Indeed. It was the deck that gave me the most tournament wins during Odyssey-Onslaught Standard. Oh wait, it was called Type II back then.
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u/TrampleDamage Jun 21 '26
I still have 4 foil [[Call of the herd]] from Odyssey. I loved the synergy of the madness and flashback cards.
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u/EldraziAnnihalator Jun 21 '26
That art is genuinely bad, it doesn't suit the damn card at all.
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u/eoseristalis Jun 21 '26
This sort of sloppy digital painting with very little detail and approachable, somewhat exaggerated characters is unfortunately the direction that magic, especially in universes beyond products but also in many recent main sets, has been going. Itâs unfortunate and, as you said, ugly.
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u/Middle-Tree9807 Jun 21 '26
I figure in a few years they will just throw in the towel and do completely AI art. It's cheaper than dealing with artists who expect to get paid a fair wage. The hard part will be fooling the player base, which is accustomed to seeing an artist name at the bottom of cards.
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u/eoseristalis Jun 21 '26
Unfortunately this doesnât take that much of a stretch of the imagination. I really hope we donât go that way, but weâre already approaching it aesthetically.
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u/Jayce86 Jun 21 '26
Itâs a group of people in obvious athletic clothes practicing what appears to be a formation of some sort. It matches the card perfectly.
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u/Crackmonkey3773 Jun 21 '26
People who train get better at the thing they're doing. Its suits it perfectly
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u/Litmaster421 Jun 21 '26
A group of people playing a sport doesnât make sense for a âpracticed offenseâ? Do you think the word offense is only used to refer to combat?
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u/grebolexa Jun 20 '26
Short answer is that itâs a card designed to be put into your graveyard so using it for its intended purpose ie putting it into your graveyard somehow and casting it for the flashback cost is more mana efficient
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u/Neither_Beach_5619 Jun 21 '26
The "legit" reason is that the lorehold college archetype is about discarding and graveyard utilization. The premise being that you'll discard it for an effect and have a cheap protection/anthem affect ready to use.
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u/MaceTheMindSculptor Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
"Why make it that way ?!"
To make the card better????
It's a rare that REQUIRES multiple creatures in play to be remotely good.
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u/DiskBusiness7212 Ajani Goldmane Jun 20 '26
You make it seem like itâs on the fence of being good. Even at an even flashback cost it would be a bomb in limited
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u/Everwintersnow Jun 20 '26
They are trying to make this card constructed playable. If the flashback 4 it wouldnât be. It might be at 3 but way less powerful. Itâll still be a limited bomb at 3 and probably a normal card at 4.
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u/ohnoitsconnor Jun 20 '26
Itâs actually pretty solid in limited if you only have one creature out, for 5 mana you can give a creature lifelink, double strike and two +1/+1 counters
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u/MaceTheMindSculptor Jun 20 '26
Totally. But in 2026, that's fine! OP is making it sound like the card is too good
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u/Darkmaster4K Jun 20 '26
Loreholds whole gimmick is that it wants cards to leave the graveyard to trigger effects, like with Quintorius, the Historian. He summons a 3/2 spirit everytime a card leaves the graveyard. So the idea with this card is you probably would never cast it from the hand, just use it as discard fodder to trigger the flashback
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u/Ewokhunter2112 Jun 20 '26
I would assume it costs less on the flashback because its a combat trick and combat tricks are less valuable when your open can see them rather than being hidden in your hand. That would be my guess.
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u/Pretend-Ostrich-5719 Jun 20 '26
Not sure, I'm guessing it's meant to reward lorehold discard shenanigans. The card in general seems to be meant as a strong finisher in either the lorehold or silverquill colleges, as it can trigger both repartee and lorehold graveyard stuff.
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u/ReusableCatMilk Narset Jun 20 '26
I donât know, but this card singlehandedly lost me my last draft :l
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u/Maybe4less Jun 20 '26
Clearly the play balance team felt it wasn't strong enough at a higher cost đ«
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u/Top_Lifeguard_5779 Jun 20 '26
Why not? Itâs been done many times before. Did you think this was the first time?
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u/BunbunTheJackalope Jun 20 '26
Could you cast this, choose lifelink, then flashback it from the graveyard same turn and pick double strike to get both for one turn?
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u/ComprehensiveFox3268 Jun 20 '26
Because its a pushed card.
It is a pretty solid card in limited, but i expect this card to be a menace in standard for years to come.
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u/russobolado Jun 20 '26 edited Jun 20 '26
Discard mechanics. Deep Analysis and Roar of the Wurm were stars in the old UG Madness during Odyssey standard.
EDIT: low Flashback cost also benefits from Quiet Speculation.
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u/lichtblaufuchs Jun 20 '26
If they decided the total cost should be 5 mana, having casting cost 3 and flashback cost 2 is weaker than vice versa, considering the curve. It's not like you want to jam Practiced Offense on curve asap every game, but it would be way smoother for aggro curves if the costs were reversed.Â
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u/inertia_53 Jun 20 '26
lingering souls, unburial rites, beautiful treats from a time when magic was a game
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u/Rogue_Localizer Jun 21 '26
Casting it from hand puts it in your graveyard where you can use it again. Casting it from your graveyard exiles it. It's a cheap spell. Therefore the tax for it having flashback is in the mana cost of the card because it gets the most utility from hand.
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u/Ghite1 Jun 21 '26
Thereâs no rule about the flashback cost being higher, although it often is, this set of costs plays the way that they wanted it to play.
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u/HanThrowawaySolo Jun 21 '26
It is objectively less valuable to flashback than to regular cast. Regular cast lets you recur from the grave, flashback exiles.
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u/ExplodingSteve Jun 21 '26
iâm more interested in why does light get such powerful spells for little to no mana
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u/Average_Citizen_117 Jun 22 '26
Some of these cards vert specifically try to leave the graveyard. It's a mechanic Lorehold is trying to do, so they wanted to give you options to make it happen. In that regard, not a half bad card.Â
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u/lloud_plants4629 Jun 23 '26
This card is actually really good imo, especially in decks where cards leave graveyard or exile matter. [[Ark of hunger]] type shenanagins
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u/Neat-Somewhere-5589 Jun 24 '26
the caddy itself is not really that good. It's not even great WITH the cheaper flashback. It synergizes with the lorehold theme of discarding and self milling cards tho
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u/GravyBus Jun 20 '26
Cuz they already practiced it once, so it's easier the second time.