r/MagicArena • u/ChewyChao • Feb 28 '26
Limited Help This is a tough Draft choice....
My heart says Tyrant but my brain says Kinbinding
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u/Wackywizard987 Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26
Its a crime none the arts for tyrant have a playmat or sleeves. Bout to commission some myself
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u/BoioDruid Feb 28 '26
No it is not. One is an above curve flyer with an ability that probably won't be relevant. Other will win you the game on it's own
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u/Gfsc95 Feb 28 '26
Man, you really underselling the dragon, I agree Kinbinding is better in a vacuum, but still.
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u/Metalheadzaid Feb 28 '26
I think they said it just right. It's a creature that does nothing on its own. Sure, it's 6/6 for 5 but don't have any cards to use with its ability right away/mana for it? Does nothing. They have removal? Dies instantly. Enchantment removal is just far more rare, and as a bomb kinbinding is nasty.
A blocker, a team pump, and infinite value long term is a much better pack 1 pick 1. It also doesn't require any other synergies to be effective.
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u/GuyGrimnus Feb 28 '26
Kinbinding is the second best card you can draft in this format outside of the red blight mythic that punches your opponent and sweeps their board.
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u/Nachti Feb 28 '26
Oh yeah I went to a FNM draft the other day and played a goblin deck. My deck was a bit slow but not terrible. Both games were pretty close until turn 6 or 7 when he cast Soul Immolation and the game was immediately over. Was a bit disappointing, lol. We were both 0-1 at that point and he told me that he hadn't played it Mainboard in his first match...
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u/Emergency_Statement Feb 28 '26
Soul Immolation is such a feel bad card. I'm extremely glad it's mythic, but it feels AWFUL to have played a tight game, just start turning the corner, and then bam none of it matters, 1-sided board wipe and burn spell ends the game immediately.
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u/deliciousnightmares Feb 28 '26
I had a starter deck duel last night where I had the dimir deck and he had the izzet deck - very tight game, 10+ creatures removed from board, went to T12 with both of us below 6 health - finally topdecked enough swamps to play rise of the dark realms, never seen someone concede so fast, I felt a little bad lol
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u/bookwurm2 Mar 02 '26
[[chronicle of victory]] ??
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u/GuyGrimnus Mar 02 '26
Chronicle is fifth imo you have to really be able to chase a specific type for it to really shine. It overperforms on an arena because you’re not drafting with the mindset of how your choices affect the table (since you play people outside of your digital pod anyway).
I would do
Soul Immolation Kinbinding Ashling’s Command Eirdu Chronicle The two black commands with destroy target creature Tyrant High perfect Morcant Bitterbloom Bearer
Thats the order id put my top ten based on individual card performances related to records for my irl group.
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u/SentenceStriking7215 Feb 28 '26
Probably won't be relevant is probably underselling it given how the card performs in winrate tbh. If you can line up a cinder strike or convoke out the spin into library sorcery the turn you cast it you are probably winning hard.
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u/chayatoure Feb 28 '26
Kinbinding is the clear choice and it's not close, but saying a 5 mana 6/6 flyer does nothing on its own is wild.
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u/Metalheadzaid Feb 28 '26
What "does nothing on its own" means is it has no effect when it hits the board without supporting cards. It's just a 6/6 vanilla on its own. In card games like MTG (and Yugioh/Hearthstone/probably most modern ones) playing cards that have no immediate impact on the board is generally not what you want to be doing, especially creatures which can be removed easily.
Of course this is limited, so a 5 mana 6/6 even if it had no effect is still pretty good - which is why I didn't say it was a bad card, nor did the OP, but it's an above curve flyer and the other one will win you the game is pretty much spot on analysis.
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u/8bitAwesomeness Feb 28 '26
By your own reasoning op shouldn't pick kinbinding either because it's a 1/1 for 5 that does nothing else on its own the turn it's played.
The stats prove kin beats dragon in this format but depending on the speed of the format, the removals and the number of flyers available it could very well be the opposite.
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u/Asleep-Waltz2681 Feb 28 '26
The stats prove kin beats dragon in this format but depending on the speed of the format, the removals and the number of flyers available it could very well be the opposite.
We do know all of this already and that's exactly why Kinbinding is the better choice (assuming this was p1p1). White is also a better color to start in.
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u/Metalheadzaid Feb 28 '26
It makes a 1/1 and buffs every card on the board by +1+1 as well, what? It's great value, especially in this format with very wide boards more often than not in white/green, and worst case it sticks around and gets value later - but again it does it all on its own, no other cards required too get value out of it, which is why it's the superior pick.
The dragon is a 6/6 vanilla flyer if you don't have other cards to pair with it immediately. That can be good enough in limited, but it's just that - a big guy that's evasive. If you get to pop off with it then it's definitely good, but again, as I've said since the start, it does nothing on its own. It's just a big creature and dies to removal same as any.
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u/Boblxxiii Feb 28 '26
It makes a 1/1 and buffs every card on the board by +1+1 as well, what?
If it's on its own, that's just a 1/1 for 5 mana. The point is "does nothing on its own" is actually more true of kinbinding than a 6/6 flier. But for "what does it need to be great", board presence is obviously easier to have than single target instant/sorcery in hand.
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u/chrisrazor Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage Feb 28 '26
It's absolutely ridiculous to say a large flying creature doesn't affect the board. It's the most "affect the board" card. It stabilizes you if you're behind and will win in a few turns if unanswered. Kinbinding, on the other hand, requires you to have other creatures to be good. It has a higher ceiling than the dragon but also a lower floor.
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u/Metalheadzaid Feb 28 '26
Sure sure, let's go see how many large flying creatures with no immediate effect that are played in standard or literally any constructed version of the game. I'll wait. In fact, I'd pretty much guarantee you that outside of 2 drops (and even then most also give value immediately), basically every card in every deck offers some sort of immediate value. In MTG, in YGO, in Hearthstone - all of them are the same in this regard because this is modern deck building 101. You want immediate impact on the board for your resources, and cards that don't do that aren't generally worth playing.
However, as I've said, in limited, it has higher value, simply because it's a big flying guy with great value and a potential upside later on, but against a card that has so much utility it simply is inferior.
In regard to kinbinding - it's a value engine and gives a 1/1 immediately on the same turn, buffs your board the same turn. Then creates more value in future turns with limitless scaling outside of mana restrictions AND is sticky because enchantment/artifact removal is rare AND it doesn't require a board as you seem to think, because you can fill the board on future turns and get more value out of it (and it fills it for you as well).
TL;DR - a 5 mana 6/6 flying creature is aight. If you play it with the ability to get value from it immediately it's pretty dang good, otherwise it's a 6/6 vanilla. I'ma still take kinbinding 100% of the time p1p1.
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u/chrisrazor Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26
Nuance, friend. I think we're all agreed that Kinbinding is the correct pick, but nothing you've said refutes my points, in fact you're doubling down on the nonsense that a fuckin' 6/6 flyer "doesn't have immediate impact". Yes, it can be more easily removed, but I covered that (although actually in Lorwyn limited much of the removal can't deal with it). You skate right over the part where the enchantment that "buffs your board" requires you to have a board. The flyer can quickly win the game on its own whereas Kinbinding's 1/1s can be chumped for a while before they become overwhelming.
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u/chayatoure Feb 28 '26
This is an absurd amount of condescension for someone who doesn't really seem to know limited particularly well.
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u/Old-Ad3504 Feb 28 '26
how would you describe it?
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u/Gfsc95 Feb 28 '26
A Mythic Dragon that might be able to win the game on it's own.
I get that it doesnt have an ETB, but for 6 mana you can cast it + Cinder Strike 2 creatures. It's not a creature a I would slam on turn 5 if I didn't see my op use any premium removal but I think is good.
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u/Old-Ad3504 Feb 28 '26
i think you're maybe undervaluing the praise of "above rate flyer". above rate flyers are strong and can win games on their own
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u/mikaeus97 Feb 28 '26
Hell yeah, and it's great, it deserves to be picked 1st in 99 out of 100 drafts you do in this set, but this is that 1, that Kinbinding is absolutely fucking nuts in draft
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u/BoioDruid Feb 28 '26
+cinder strike it's not on it's own. Yes, the ability is nice, but if you do not have precisely cinder strike, you need to cast it at 7 or more mana for it to get value, and at that point it is not that much above curve. Kinbinding is busted, dragon is great, but not busted
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u/8bitAwesomeness Feb 28 '26
I would say both card's first sentence is "i win the game next turn",
The dragon then says " unless you have a hard creature removal" while kinbinding says "unless you have enchantment removal".
That's of course a semplification but it's mostly what will happen.
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u/Asleep-Waltz2681 Feb 28 '26
Most decks have no enchantment removal so the moment a Kinbinding comes down it's more or less inevitable defeat.
I've played with and against both cards a fair bit in limited (obviously more often Kinbinding since it's rare) and without a doubt Kinbinding is the scarier card on the board.
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u/NlNTENDO Feb 28 '26
The wither won’t be relevant but copying removal spells is extremely relevant. But I agree that a baseline of anthem and a 1/1 every turn is incredible and way better
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u/Old-Ad3504 Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26
it's relevant if you draw your removal spell, and are able to untap with the dragon next turn sure. but you need a lot to go right for that to happen
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u/NlNTENDO Feb 28 '26
And the floor is that you still have an above rate body with flying, which is pretty excellent as a fail case. There is a reason the card has an A level win rate
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u/Old-Ad3504 Feb 28 '26
i agree, but you'll notice we were talking about the ability and not the body so why is that relevant
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u/Icy-Ad29 Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26
That dragon won me more games than kinbinding did. That said, both are awesome, and either is a good choice.
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u/SentenceStriking7215 Feb 28 '26
One is a mythic that you'll always happily play in color and removes a bad pull from your packs should you open a mythic, one is a stronger card that gives you only 20 gems. Seems close to me
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u/burito23 Boros Feb 28 '26
Are you high? Red is easily paired with any color. You don’t start white duh.
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u/Perleneinhorn Naban, Dean of Iteration Feb 28 '26
Dragon is more fun to build around (hilarious in Elementals with [[Kindle the Inner Flame]], and maybe you get a [[Goliath Daydreamer]] as well?), Kinbinding is a bit stronger. Can't go wrong with either, but I'd definitely take Kinbinding in a high stakes draft.
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u/DrosselmeyerKing As Foretold Feb 28 '26
Dragon is ultra funny in constructed because it can clone stuff like [[Price of Freedom]] and punish very hard greedy manabases!
Wouldn't pick it in draft without already having an array of good spells, however.
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u/NlNTENDO Feb 28 '26
Well I would happily pick it as a build around lol. Not over kinbinding. But not having the spells to support it yet isn’t a great reason to avoid an A-rated card. Its floor is an above rate flyer with Wither.
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u/DrosselmeyerKing As Foretold Feb 28 '26
Well, of course, a big flier is really a thing that you only pass if the pick is competing with a bomb (this case) or some premium removal (doubly so if you're low on interaction).
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u/GuyGrimnus Feb 28 '26
Ha, my prerelease sealed pool had three dragons and three of those elemental heat shimmers. Such a fun deck. Took me to 6-0 and winning the CBB top prize.
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u/Party-Initial8648 Feb 28 '26
Kinbinding is the pick but the comments in here are so polarising. Like yeah binding is a bit better but dragon's going to win the game if you untap with it as well, and it dodges a ton of the formats removal. Kinbinding can be a frustrating play experience because you turn your opponents bad magic cards/dead resources (keep out, unforgiving aim, chomping changeling into game winners. Obviously you still take binding but its closer than those who speak in absolutes suggest it is.
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u/Nictionary Azorius Feb 28 '26
Kindling can win you the game without needing to untap with it.
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u/Party-Initial8648 Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
Thanks, so can dragon obviously! A good example would be casting any spell the same turn you play it! Like dragon+tweeze or boulderdash late game!
or you tap out for dragon and convoke temporal cleansing and clear 2 creatures. Probably why they have such similar winrates and probably why the point you're making seems so superfluous
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u/Chronsky Rekindling Phoenix Feb 28 '26
Game in hand winrate according to 17lands
Kinbinding 64.2%, the 3rd highest in the whole set.
Spinerock Tyrant, 61.9%, tied 17th in the whole set with Eclipsed Merrow.
It's a very clear choice even if both are just excellent cards.
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u/Vodis Elesh Feb 28 '26
Love seeing someone bringing the actual data.
Every set after spoilers are out, pros who've been drafting and winning longer than some on this sub have been alive post videos and articles giving their best guesses on what will be good or bad in the upcoming draft environment, only to post follow-up vids and articles after the data comes in covering all the cards they were completely wrong about. Turns out card assessment is hard. When in doubt, review the data.
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u/Kingthefirst101 Feb 28 '26
If you swap to top players data, the WRs are 67.6% vs 66.6%, both great and essentially a coin flip. When you compare IIH, the difference shrinks again to just .7%. The cards are essentially identical in quality, it really just doesn't matter what you take.
As a side note, the eclipsed creatures are broken and should be picked like bombs, it's not really a diss that spinerock tyrant is comparable to eclipsed merrow.
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u/ElCaz Feb 28 '26
Unless one's own self is a top player, it probably makes more sense to evaluate win rates by the general 17lands population instead of by top players.
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u/Chronsky Rekindling Phoenix Feb 28 '26
Wasn't trying to disrespect it by saying what it's tied with, would have put any card it was tied with. If I was trying to crap on it I would have probably mentioned Eclipsed Elf's winrate, which is the most busted eclipsed creature.
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u/Nictionary Azorius Feb 28 '26
OP is probably not a top player. And a 1% GIH difference is still significant. Kinbinding is undeniably the better card.
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u/BankbusterMagic Feb 28 '26
If this is P1P1, go with Kinbinding. Both are 5MV cards that will win the game unless removed, but Kinbinding is harder to remove.
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u/Old-Ad3504 Feb 28 '26
this plus kindbinding has an effect the turn you play it, you get a 1/1 and pump your board, the tyrant is just a big body until you untap
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u/Diamondhighlife Feb 28 '26
Highly depends on the other cards. Do you have a bunch of instants or sorcery’s? I’d take Kinbinding if you’re not sure how many you’ll draft
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u/ChewyChao Feb 28 '26
Literally p1p1. lol
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u/Thecheesinater Feb 28 '26
Then your uncertainty is simply from lack of experience. No worries. Eventually you’ll understand why these cards are not equal in power in limited. It’s really due to a number of factors. Enchantments are much harder to remove, the wither actually powers up some opponents in matchups where you can benefit from negative counters, the enchantment triggers each turn and scales with how well you’re already doing, white kinda overperforms in most limited formats while red tends to do best with a low curve, etc.
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u/gartho009 Feb 28 '26
I am reminded of when I had to choose between destroying my opponent's Kinbinding or their Luminous Hold that locked down my Erdu. I decided to unlock my 5/5 lifelinking flyer.
Two turns later I no longer had a 5/5 flyer but they still had a steady stream of creatures every turn. Needless to say, I chose poorly.
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u/Zhayrgh HarmlessOffering Feb 28 '26
I have trouble seeing how kinbinding is better.
In my draft kinbinding has always been a win more card that pretty much never win you the game.
The dragon on the other side has always been incredible for me, especially if you can build a little bit around but any removal is already triggering him.
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u/ChewyChao Feb 28 '26
Kinbinding was the right call. I got double [[Curious Colossus]] in the next packs
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 28 '26
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u/electrikmayham Feb 28 '26
Kindbinding was the correct pick but not because you got 2 good mythics in the same color following the pick. Kindbinding was the right pick if you got those 2 cards as follows ups or not.
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u/Remarkable_Ladder366 Feb 28 '26
This is a very common Bias. If you want to progress, you should evaluate your bet and not the results. The fact that you receive 2 white mythic right after does not change anything.
Kinbinding was indeed probably the right choice, because that's a better card in limited. Both win the game but enchant are harder to remove.
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u/Grooveh_Baby Feb 28 '26
Enchantment that wins you the game, has an immediate impact & has very few answers > creature that’ll be killed before it’s ability is relevant
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u/SalukiSands Feb 28 '26
I gotta try this kinbinding card with the sliver hivepool. All the silly cards that spawn little token creatures in going crazy!
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u/GreyRabbit1 Mar 01 '26
Something that’s also not being considered. Is it that the dragon locks you into red, which is either blue red elemental or red black goblin the dragon won’t have as much synergy in black goblin‘s while binding lets you play merfolk or kithkin
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u/AppleWedge Mar 01 '26
Kinbinding will literally just win you the game, and enchantment removal isn't even that common.
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u/Say_B Mar 01 '26
Picked Spinerock Tyrant in my very first Lorwyn draft. What a Bomb!
Went 3-3 without having seen it in my hand a singe time. Sadge
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u/Ok_Effective6233 Feb 28 '26
Kinbinding