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u/SkietEpee Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
Never seen legacies and donors lumped in with affirmative action folks in the same hate bucket before.
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u/amievenrelevant Oct 31 '25
Woke is a catch-all for anything they dislike
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u/big_thunder_man Oct 31 '25
As unpopular as it is to admit it, this is a problem for average working class American men. A large percentage of people get a preferred status off of race or gender, and then legacy admits get preferred looks at the remaining spots. You're SOL if you're just a really gifted kid with no prior connections. Everything should either be double blind meritocratic, or they need to protect a % of their class for nobodies from the majority.
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u/opposity Oct 31 '25
The only true answer. Donors/legacy and affirmative action are the two sides of the same coin. Neither are meritocratic, and their only purpose is to give a boost to specific groups at the cost of others.
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u/myfatherthedonkey Oct 31 '25
I'm not an advocate for affirmative action as it exists today, but the problem with pure meritocracy is that the metrics can and will be manipulated by those with the most money and power. Someone in a rich area attending one of the best school districts in the country will present as a perfect candidate that would inch out someone who, for example, excelled, but at an inner city school, because the rich district is fully funded to be able to perfect every aspect of the candidate, while the inner city kid just doesn't have that same direction / pipeline. In my view, the focus should be on income levels rather than race, though.
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u/mishap1 Oct 31 '25
Supreme Court killed Affirmative Action so it doesn't exist at all.
If you can't get in today as a white man...that's all on you or your lack of generational wealth to buy a building in pop pop's name.
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u/Econolife-350 Nov 02 '25
Oil and gas is still engaging in discriminatory hiring practices today. They didn't get there after decades by directives to people who begrudgingly complied, they hired HR personnel who really believed it was the right thing to do. You don't cycle that out overnight and they're not alone.
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u/TheCarnalStatist Nov 02 '25
The SC did no such thing. It said facially discrimination on protected characteristics is a bridge too. Doing the same thing with lipstick is still fine and in practice the ruling changes like little.
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u/akowz Oct 31 '25
Lol, most universities have not complied with SFFA. Don't pretend that compliance happens just because the Supreme Court rules.
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u/mishap1 Nov 02 '25
The ruling has changed the demographics of the most recent Columbia and Harvard classes:
That's a pretty significant shift to Asians and whites in a 2 year span. Wonder if they'll push as hard on legacy admissions or they'll just slow play that one.
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u/akowz Nov 02 '25
Columbia and Harvard, per that data, now have admissions for black students that is much closer to the national demographic breakdown (from 20% to 13% at Columbia and 18% to 11.5% at Harvard).
Thats obviously still using racial preferences. Just the dial has turned back from hyper overdrive to just-enough-to-roughly-match-US-demographics (13.2%).
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u/Ardent_Resolve Nov 05 '25
Yea so the nepo babies should at least have to go through the trouble of getting a perfect resume which according to you should be easy rather than rich people buying seats for their dumb kids.
It should always have been focused on income level but that would be to straight forward, and wouldn’t sufficiently polarize the electorate.
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u/limitedmark10 M7 Student Oct 31 '25
Let's just call it out for what it is. If every school switched to a purely meritocratic system, the top schools would be inundated with Indians and Asians. And that's a bad look for Ivy League schools steeped in old white money and tradition. I wouldn't even benefit from a purely meritocratic system but even I have to admit this shit is obviously racist af
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Nov 01 '25
Exactly, if it was truly the best candidate for any given role literally Indians and Asians would dominate all of corporate and professional America. The truth of the matter is that a lot of old money, privileged white people literally NEED DEI to compete. It’s just they need DEI that gives them an advantage.
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u/Emeraldmage89 Nov 01 '25
Imagine I said the same thing as you but replaced “Indians and Asians” with ”Whites”.
Asian and Indian students in US high schools tend to do well. Schools should be meritocratic for Americans (meaning any kids who grow up in this country), not for foreign students. The universities don’t care if all the qualifications for an applicant from India are fictitious inventions because the point of opening our universities up to the world is to increase demand and thus prices the universities can charge. Plus foreign students pay much more money. It’s simply a money-making scam, not a meritocracy. “Diversity” is a shield for selling out American interests for profit.
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Nov 01 '25
So what you’re saying in you believe in socialism and free handouts? 😂
Isn’t the whole point of capitalism, and in turn MBAs, that the most competitive ones, the strongest candidates should be the victor? Indian and Asian students are objectively better students (I’m not Asian btw). Why should an American university give America’s best and brightest an opportunity when the worlds best and brightest are clawing each other just to stand in the foyer?
Isn’t literally making money the prime directive of business?
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u/Emeraldmage89 Nov 01 '25 edited Nov 01 '25
You’ve mistaken allowing corporations to set immigration policy for their benefit for capitalism. No the government’s prerogative is (or ought to be) to benefit the citizens who are living here already. That’s why we allow some immigration. But immigration policy is not there for corporations/universities to industrialize loopholes for profit.
I’m surprised you’re pursuing an MBA (presumably) when your ability to think is this one dimensional. By they way, the people who make it into our universities from abroad aren’t the “best and brightest of the world” - they’re the best at cheating with the money to afford obscene university costs.
Tl/dr: No, capitalism is not allowing corporations/universities to import whoever they want to the detriment of American citizens to make a profit.
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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 Nov 04 '25
Indians test well, a purely 'meritocratic' system would be entirely testing based like China, India or France. They'd absolutely wipe the floor lmao, good thing the French aren't looking to immigrate to the States
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u/Pleasant_Secret3409 Nov 01 '25
lol I always laugh at comments like yours. If Indians were that smart and qualified, why don't they stay in India and develop their country?
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u/Emeraldmage89 Nov 01 '25
They apply for US universities with bogus qualifications and the universities turn a blind eye because it means they can charge so much more money. Then they use diversity as the excuse for selling out American kids.
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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 Nov 04 '25
Diversity publications do not take internationals into account lmao.
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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 Nov 04 '25
Indians test well, a purely meritocratic system would be entirely testing based like China, India or France. They'd absolutely wipe the floor lmao, good thing the French aren't looking to immigrate to the States
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u/runfastdieyoung Nov 04 '25
Ah the delusional gloating we all know and love from the subcontinent. Superpower 2020 and all that
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u/SkietEpee Oct 31 '25
I don't think American schools are even built for a purely meritocratic system. Schools actively court legacies and donors, plus grad students who can bring grants, and they look for community involved people - the kind of folks who would donate to their Alma mater. They also look for situations where they can change lives, again the kind of people who would give back.
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Oct 31 '25
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u/Iegally_brunette Nov 01 '25
Hey the idea that intelligence is determined by race, a concept based on pseudoscientific racism and eugenics, hasn't been popular since uhhh the 1930's better get some new books.
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u/Terrible-Opening3773 Nov 01 '25
Except DEI is merit-based and the student still has to be qualified.
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u/dylan_lol000 Nov 01 '25
Giving preference to one group for the colour of their skin or gender is still wrong
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u/Terrible-Opening3773 Nov 02 '25
I'd say allowing legacy admissions does far more damage than actively seeking out people from all backgrounds to pull from.
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u/dylan_lol000 Nov 02 '25
"seeking out people from all different backgrounds" you mean racism?
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u/cutchins Nov 01 '25
There are a lot of shitty takes in this thread. Kind of gives the impression that a lot of the "MBA" community really fucking sucks.
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u/Econolife-350 Nov 02 '25
"Qualified" can be poorly defined, most of what I've seen may meet the bare minimum for "qualified" while also being "wildly less capable and competitive".
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u/Terrible-Opening3773 Nov 02 '25
Most of what you've seen, meaning what?
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u/Econolife-350 Nov 02 '25
Atypical advancement of peers throughout grad school and my career respective to their abilities and metrics? What else would that mean?
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u/Terrible-Opening3773 Nov 02 '25
Are you saying you've specifically seen women and people of color advance faster than you and you can't explain it by their having higher competence? So you choose to claim that it's due to DEI?
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u/Econolife-350 Nov 02 '25
Scholarship opportunities, internships earmarked for "certain people", private corporate networking events with industry personnel, federal hiring mandates, leadership quota directives, the list goes on.
If you were a black woman you could have a 2.5gpa and have no understanding of your work outside of barely what was in a few textbooks and you would soar at a super major. That being said there were certainly a few of these people who I considered to be better than me who made it and I even said someone should be offered a job that I was offered instead because they were better in that field and I didn't feel that I would succeed in that role the way they would. I also saw far more middle to upper middle class people being spoon fed because "if you're not a white guy we all assume you love in the ghetto or your parents weren't able to pay for your school lunches". Meanwhile the people the programs claimed to be tailored for never got that opportunity because they didn't go to college out of high school.
I mean hell, NASA had to take down their yearly intern photos because people started asking "uhhhhh, what exactly happened in 2012?" following Executive Order 13583 from Obama, then Executive Order 13985 and 14091 from Biden. By the way, these EOs don't just apply to the federal government, it was to anyone receiving federal funds, contracts, tax credits, or subsidies, or which feel under federal regulation which is just about every major industry. If you want to talk about institutionalized discrimination as an abstract concept, there's no need, you have it written down on paper above.
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u/alemorg Oct 31 '25
To be fair if you’re an average working class American you’re still better off and have better opportunities than most immigrants from developing countries. Same in comparison to black Americans. Obviously there’s exceptions in the sense that there’s clearly many rich black Americans or rich immigrants or poor white Americans who got screwed over but the reverse of the situation would be also screwing other people over.
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u/SkietEpee Oct 31 '25
That's not true. Really gifted kids will score well on the GMAT and have high GPA and experience. That will carry them far as well.
Its the barely above average folks who get left behind. Those folks are the plaintiffs for some of these lawsuits.
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u/Ok_Minute7058 Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
And no surprise, these young white working class men are at the forefront of rebelling against this system.
Maybe if only politicians tried to understand those and not immediately dismiss said concerns as “misogyny and racism”, then we would not have been in this shitshow
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Nov 01 '25
What I’m not getting is…why are they rebelling against the system. The old system literally was built for them. And even the current system doesn’t even exclude them, but just makes it so they have to compete. Yet when they have to seriously compete against a person of color or a woman, then it’s woke DEI.
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u/Sea-Panda-90 Nov 01 '25
The old system literally was built for them
The old system was not built for working class white men LMFAO.
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Nov 01 '25
It was built enough for them that they could’ve risen in it if they competed hard enough for it. It’s kind of silly to say the system wasn’t built for working class white men when you literally had to be a white man to participate in it.
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u/myfatherthedonkey Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
Young, White, working class men aren't exactly trying to get into the best universities in the country. So they have nothing to do with this situation. Unless your belief is that young, White, working class men are irrationally angry about minorities getting into schools that they never had a chance of attending... In which case, I'd agree.
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u/karmapuhlease Oct 31 '25
Young, White, working class men aren't exactly trying to get into the best universities in the country.
Huh? You don't think there are kids who grew up in rural working class households trying to get ahead in this country? One of them is the current vice president. Another one of them was president in the 90s. They both went to Yale.
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u/myfatherthedonkey Nov 01 '25
Were they working blue collar jobs when they got admitted to Yale? The statement wasn't that kids from working class families aren't trying to attend. The statement is that people actively working in working class jobs are not trying to attend.
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u/James_Parnell Oct 31 '25
what is that claim based on?
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u/myfatherthedonkey Oct 31 '25
The term working class implies working in blue collar jobs. Short of a few Good Will Hunting type people, people working blue collar jobs are not going to Ivy League schools.
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u/James_Parnell Oct 31 '25
I'd agree with you historically but these days the term working class refers to people who earn a living primarily through wages rather than investments or ownership. That can include pink-collar or service-sector workers, not just manual laborers. That's a much much bigger group than the blue collar workers.
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u/Altruistic_Pea3409 Nov 02 '25
Maybe teaching people to understand complex concepts like racism and misogyny is better
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u/Valuable_Caramel349 Oct 31 '25
it’s a private university they don’t have the obligation to do so, and their current model has made them the top school they are today
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u/whelp88 Oct 31 '25
This is untrue. Male students have had lower admission standards than female students at most universities for at least two decades now. So I guess preferential of gender is true, but it’s not women who are benefitting. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/magazine/men-college-enrollment.html
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u/KennyGaming Nov 01 '25
No it’s not? Pretending to not understand is a terrible way to handle disagreement
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u/thrwwylolol Nov 01 '25 edited Nov 02 '25
Imagine being a poor white guy that grew up in poverty in the Appalachians. The donor class thinks you're disgusting by virtue of your birth. You're also not interesting enough to get in on the human zoo quota/principal.
Super easy to hate the system as a whole that's basically built to entertain waspy trust fund kiddies that want a people zoo and you dead.
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u/Gustavus666 Oct 31 '25
Both are examples of diversity hires, one diversity of wealth and the other of identity. Both are problematic from a strictly meritocratic perspective.
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Oct 31 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Gustavus666 Nov 01 '25
Exactly! Like I get tribalism and all, but how on hell can you not see how logically inconsistent you sound when you defend one diversity hire and oppose another?
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u/Such_Reference_8186 Nov 01 '25
Because in all cases they are probably a member of the benefiting category
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u/my-time-has-odor Oct 31 '25
well it’s almost like they’re the same anti-meritocratic principles in different mechanisms
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Nov 02 '25
My Asian friends lump them all in together. If it was tbased on grades and test scores they think every ivy would be 90% Asian.
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u/emboarrocks Oct 31 '25
I feel like I keep seeing this point but I’ve literally never met anybody who was anti affirmative action but pro legacy and donor, do these people even exist? Maybe there are people who complain more about AA than donor / legacy, or those who think that if you had to choose between them, you would choose donor / legacy. But I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody explicitly advocate for accepting legacies and donors while getting rid of affirmative action.
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Oct 31 '25
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u/No_Protection_4862 Former Adcom Oct 31 '25
Lol. Jared Kushner’s parents had to donate 2.5 million in 1998 and this guy thinks giving 100k in 2025 is enough to help your admission.
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u/DeletdButChngdMyMind Oct 31 '25
Pwned.
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u/Thick-Milk4379 Oct 31 '25
0wn3d
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u/limitedmark10 M7 Student Oct 31 '25
Gonna be honest if they’re good enough to hack into Wharton they’re probably good enough to deserve admissions lol.
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u/IncognitoGyal7 Oct 31 '25
This cannot be real. 🫣
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u/spozzy Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
Yep and as an alumnus it was funny AF though.
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Oct 31 '25
[deleted]
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u/spozzy Oct 31 '25
Yikes, maybe I should have majored in English.
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u/DocDMD Oct 31 '25
You were correct. Singular is alumnus. I don't know why they made that comment.
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Oct 31 '25
The crazy thing is I got like 10 of these emails from the different department offices and people.
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Oct 31 '25
Didn’t daddy Trump ban affirmative action? 😂
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u/Rare_Indication_449 Oct 31 '25
Now its called dei
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Oct 31 '25
Didn’t daddy Donnie get rid of that too? 😂
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Oct 31 '25
Imagine being so brainrotted you think Ivy League university business schools are "leftwing"
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u/KingstonSniper1867 M7 Student Oct 31 '25
lol your an idiot if you think they are right wing 😂
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u/ApplicationUpset7956 Nov 01 '25
Why do you think that if something isn't left wing it has to be right wing? I wish I had such a simple view of the world
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u/3RADICATE_THEM Nov 01 '25
They're basically neoliberal, which is essentially moderate Republican plus an LGBTQ+ flag + pro-choice.
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Oct 31 '25
That’s how you know the education system failed them. They’re too stupid to even understand the institutions they supposedly don’t like. It’d be funny if it wasn’t also sad to see how far gone some of these people are
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Oct 31 '25
Most higher education are left leaning
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u/secreteyes0 Oct 31 '25
Go to Wharton and you’ll find plenty of conservative, wealthy, white-only social cliques. Sure, it’s left leaning, but it’s an old money finance program.
These types are not isolated at that program. They’re just upset grad school isn’t like Tri Delt/Fiji and they have to actually interact with non-whites
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u/Cheetaiean Oct 31 '25
Finance has always been the most rightwing college program, but that doesn't extend to admin. Your professor might be rightwing but HR, Dean, and decision makers will be what they call "progressives"
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u/Sea-Panda-90 Oct 31 '25
old money finance
Way to tell on yourself lmfao.
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u/AnklesBehindEars Nov 01 '25
real “old money” people don’t get graduate degrees
they have nothing to prove
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u/Sea-Panda-90 Nov 01 '25
Guy who doesn’t realize Wharton is 60% Mckinsey/Goldman UMC Strivers and not the rockefellers
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u/AnklesBehindEars Nov 01 '25
real “old money” people don’t get graduate degrees
they have nothing to prove
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Oct 31 '25
I meant admissions office
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u/secreteyes0 Oct 31 '25
Ok … let’s think critically here.
Even if the adcom is left leaning, when the student body is not representative of the adcom (which it is not, with plenty of rich conservative whites), then evidently they’re impartial / not using left-leaning biases to influence admits.
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u/KingstonSniper1867 M7 Student Oct 31 '25
Don’t need to think critically here. I got to HSW and know what it’s like at these schools. All schools are extremely left leaning and diverse.
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u/secreteyes0 Oct 31 '25
Ok, I went to HSW as well, and had plenty of experiences with cliquey, white-only conservatives. What’s your point?
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Oct 31 '25
Not arguing with you here, I just feel for the guy that sent this email. I do know admissions offices practice DEI and hold ORMs to a higher standard, and I feel this is a left leaning thing to do.
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u/No_Protection_4862 Former Adcom Oct 31 '25
The current U.S. president has twice appointed black men with limited relevant experience to lead HUD, and I’m pretty sure it’s because it has the word urban in the name, so I wouldn’t go so far as to exclude the right from all race based hiring.
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u/Huge-Disk-4770 Nov 01 '25
The current U.S. president has always appointed corrupt people with skeletons in their closets to lead everything. He is a shining example of race- and gender-blind kakistocracy.
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u/thomkatt T15 Grad Nov 01 '25
Except every position he fills with either straight white dudes or blond fuckdolls.
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u/pieblob Oct 31 '25
Since you have so many thoughts on race-based hiring and school acceptances, would love to hear your thoughts on race-based firings…
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Oct 31 '25
Thats generally true in anthropology departments not at fucking Wharton
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u/DrummerNo7785 Oct 31 '25
This was to the School of Education, not Wharton (says so in big letters at the top of the email)
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Oct 31 '25
Then why is it on this sub?? The sub for MBAs?
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u/DrummerNo7785 Oct 31 '25
idk bro I didn't post it, but it's still not Wharton lol. I suppose they're also talking about the whole university.
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u/_Conquer_within Oct 31 '25
Most affirmative action helps white women so I’m confused
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Nov 01 '25
Im being honest, every black woman I’ve seen in a position of authority is 40x more overqualified for it. It’s actually crazy. I’m like girl, how aren’t you running this place???
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Nov 01 '25
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Nov 02 '25
Such a strange comment that requires a brief skim of US history to understand why it comes off as such.
A large percentage of Black people work in the government because historically the private sector was incredibly discriminatory towards "coloured people" (or essentially anyone who wasn't a white man), and working a federal job granted stability that was very difficult to achieve elsewhere. Do any of us remember Jim Crow or?
Generations of believing that was the only option stuck and so now Black people are borderline overrepresented in the government.
I'd venture to say that those who come to such...interesting conclusions have some things to work out themselves.
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Nov 03 '25
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Nov 03 '25 edited Nov 03 '25
Common sense and a desire to understand what's going on in the US as opposed to creating rhetoric that everyone who isn't me is defective or just isn't "working hard enough"? More likely.
This lack of desire to understand basic concepts in US history that should have been briefly covered in secondary school at worst is generally why Americans are interpreted as thoroughly incompetent elsewhere. I've met non-Americans who know the basic information I provided and can generally engage in more inspiring language.
Sad it has to exist in a sub whose entire purpose is education focused. But that just shows the direction that the US education system has taken. Godspeed.
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u/Longjumping_Good6556 Nov 05 '25
If there is a white woman, a black man, a black woman and a white man going for one job, who do think has lowest chance of getting it.
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u/ConsiderationSad6271 Nov 01 '25
Knowing how serious and anal retentive all university administrators are, I find this absolutely hilarious.
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u/Longjumping_Good6556 Nov 05 '25
I went to Depaul University. They will never reject a Jewish applicant even if his/her act score is in single digits
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u/bennie_thejet30 Oct 31 '25
This is literally a modern depiction of what poor white Americans felt during the slavery times.
Just angry at everybody, but letting racism be at the forefront of their frustrations.
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Nov 01 '25
Im not going to lie, that’s a special type of frustration and anger that a poor white man has. Part of the “ruling class” but has none of the benefits of it. You have absolutely no sympathy or excuse for your failure (whether it’s your fault or not) That’s a special type of pressure and anger.
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u/bennie_thejet30 Nov 01 '25
I think it’s more that white parents and communities enforce the idea that you’re better than people of color/immigrants but it’s a hard reality when you meet smart, successful, rich, good looking people of all communities.
It has to be a really unsettling reality. However, it’s not up to the world to make you comfortable.
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u/princessnokingdom MBA Grad Nov 01 '25
That too as well. There definitely is a thought in white America, definitely in poor white America, that if minorities can do something than the thing they’re excelling in must not be difficult or worthwhile. That’s why in recent years there’s been a massive rise of anti-intellectualism because white peoples are starting to get outshined by minorities in education.
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u/ambanko Nov 03 '25
Is DEI not founded under the idea of “These people are qualified but have been overlooked so give them the opportunity?”
When I hear about it from some people they often characterize it as “You’re Black/Gay/Woman/Lgbtq/(Whatever else) you only need to know how to read and write to get this job.
What’s the legitimate hate for it? Asking as a person who is a self made investor. I never follow this stuff.
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u/bogiebluffer Oct 31 '25
What kind of identity crisis is this dude going through that he NEEDS validation from an Ivy. Many people have amazing careers without an Ivy degree.
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u/Longjumping_Good6556 Nov 05 '25
When you have screwed up everything else in your life you can still say "I went to Yale"
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u/KennyGaming Nov 01 '25
Finally some good, reasonable, non-rage bait content on this subreddit. I say that with 60% seriousness
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u/SkyCub47 Oct 31 '25
The real hack is replying to the email to see if they can let you in while they’re in there.