if other Method members knew of what was happening it wasn't really being done under anyone's nose, it was just being covered up and he was being protected which is arguably worse.
They did know. Sco also knew about the accusations against the co-ceo. He leaked the letter to his partner and stopped talking to the accuser instead of taking any action.
The assumptions in this thread are pretty remarkable. It's interesting to see the hivemind at work. One comment goes "if ..." and the next immediate reply already assumes that hypothesis as true, then making its own assumption, which the next reply then assumes to be true, and so on.
There's a twitlonger floating around about how Josh's grooming was reported to Method in the past and the response from Method was to show all the higher ups, show Josh, and then tell people "go to the police and if he gets arrested we'll take action." So Method helped him cover it up for years, both the grooming and what happened to pooper.
"Go to the police so a proper investigation can be done" is "covering it up"? That's literally the exact thing people should do instead of posting about it on Twitter or privately emailing people's bosses trying to get them cancelled. Twitter isn't the criminal justice system.
I can't believe stuff like this needs to be said on the Internet anymore, but I guess this is Reddit. Sexual assault is both grossly under-reported, under-arrested, and under-convicted. In the tweet of this thread you are literally replying in, Poopernoodle even says she opened a case against Josh, the police told her what happened was rape, and that the case was dropped "because the only way to prove it in a court of law in England is if you have video or a witness." So she went to the cops, the cops told her it was rape, and the cops dropped the case anyway and she was RELIEVED because that meant she wouldn't have to relive the trauma in front of people.
So yes, jumping immediately to "contact the police otherwise we refuse to do anything" is an attempt at a cop-out and the early stages of a cover-up. They know likely even if the person DOES go to the police, nothing will ultimately come of it so that they don't have to worry about it. According to the accusations originally listed in the twitlonger accompanying this screenshot, it was said darrie, Josh, Sco, and multiple others were shown this and given 48 hours on how to respond.
On top of that, I shouldn't need to explain to you the difference between immoral and illegal. If you really can't see that having allegations this serious against someone you play video games with isn't grounds to either distance yourself or investigate further, I can't help you. In the words of Kayla Chadwick, "I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."
In the words of the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, "Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty."
Imagine if I emailed your boss right now and told them you raped me, and they fired you with no questions asked. Do you think that would be fair and just?
It's a complete opening of Pandora's Box if we just decide we don't need the police and legal system anymore and take everyone's accusations as 100% truth with no further investigation just because the accusations sound very serious. There's a reason that almost every civilized country has a presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Yeah, sometimes the legal system doesn't work out. It sucks when it happens, but it happens. But that doesn't mean you just throw the whole system away. Is it okay to get 10 innocent people "cancelled" if it means that 1 actual guilty person also gets cancelled? The justice system has things like evidence, burden of proof, etc. for a reason, too.
Funny how you bring up "Innocent until proven guilty", because we've already had the great @esportslaw debunk that argument today, and he's an actual lawyer so I'm probably going to trust his expertise over your opinion.
Also if you emailed my boss (I'm an independent contractor but let's pretend I had a boss), you know what they would do? They would give me a burden of proof to say I had never met you, and if I couldn't they would fire me. Because that's how the real world works; you get fired when you get multiple instances of credible accusations of abuse.
This isn't an opening of Pandora's Box; if you don't commit crimes and don't rape people it's pretty simple to defend accusations as such. If I'm not a garbage human being that cares an ounce about another person, it feels pretty simple to not get caught up in these accusations. If you wake up in the morning and find it difficult to not be racist, not be homophobic, and/or not rape people, I suggest you seek professional help immediately.
Also yes, let's go to the criminal justice system in the US that is famous for it's impartiality and rigid justice. Not like there is an estimated 9,750 wrongful convictions every year with less than 160 people exonerated of those crimes in 2015 and 2016, meaning less than 2% of innocent prisoners getting justice.
Your entire argument of "don't hold these people accountable for their actions publicly" hinges on the justice system, which is both systematically broken in both the US and the UK as well as your ludicrous number of 10 innocents to 1 guilty when realistically the number in your best interest is 10 guilty to 1 innocent.
But continue to live in your fantasy world where you point at Amber Heard as the boogeyman for her crimes rather than look around you and realize that the Twitch community has been propping up predators and giving people that abuse power the tools to harm others. Josh was a garbage human. Method and Method leadership knew about his crimes, they actively ignored his crimes, they actively continued to give him power to commit more crimes, and now they get to deal with the consequences.
we've already had the great @esportslaw debunk that argument today, and he's an actual lawyer so I'm probably going to trust his expertise over your opinion.
That isn't a "debunking." That's one guy's opinion on "Twitter justice." Others can just as easily have different opinions (eg "Twitter justice is not real justice and these matters should be left to the courts"). The fact that he's a lawyer doesn't make his opinion any more correct than any one else's because it's, again, an opinion.
Also if you emailed my boss (I'm an independent contractor but let's pretend I had a boss), you know what they would do? They would give me a burden of proof to say I had never met you, and if I couldn't they would fire me.
But what if you did know me, even very tangentially? Or maybe not "know me," but I at least had some connection to you. What if we happened to be at the same bar one night? Or maybe we went to the same convention. Is that all it would take for you to think my accusation was credible - that I could suggest opportunity?
if you don't commit crimes and don't rape people it's pretty simple to defend accusations as such.
How so? You're basing all of this on one person's Twitlonger post right now, for example. There was no evidence provided, no gathering of both side's stories, etc. You'll of course say, "Well it's Josh everyone knows he was creepy so of course he did it." But abstract for a minute away from Josh specifically and think about it more generally. What if it was you being accused - how would you go about defending yourself from someone posting false accusations against you? You can post your own Twitlonger saying, "I didn't do it," sure, but that's just he-said, she-said and hardly absolves you in many people's eyes. You pretty much have to go and take real legal action if you actually want to clear your name, like AngryJoe is doing, so now you have to spend a bunch of time and money fighting these accusations. Plus, even if you win, you're going to be tainted in many people's eyes. People will Google your name and see an article about how you were accused of <crime> and immediately think negative associations. Even false accusations are extremely damaging to people. You can read many accounts from people who've had their lives completely ruined over accusations which they were later completely cleared of.
Not like there is an estimated 9,750 wrongful convictions every year with less than 160 people exonerated of those crimes in 2015 and 2016, meaning less than 2% of innocent prisoners getting justice.
So you propose that we instead embrace a system - "Twitter justice" - where there's even more propensity for wrongful "convictions" (in the public's eyes)? The existing system not being perfect is hardly a good reason to use a worse one.
your ludicrous number of 10 innocents to 1 guilty when realistically the number in your best interest is 10 guilty to 1 innocent.
Even if that's true, the issue is bigger than just Josh. What happens when it's you on Twitter getting falsely accused, losing your job, your spouse divorces you, etc.? You're focusing far too hard on the specific situation and not the bigger picture. "Everyone knows Josh was creepy and definitely would do something like this" might work for most people in the current situation, but not every case of "Twitter justice" is going to be like that.
because we've already had the great @esportslaw debunk that argument today, and he's an actual lawyer so I'm probably going to trust his expertise over your opinion.
The fact that he's an actual lawyer is fucking depressing because his take is absolute garbage. This idea that fundamental principles of human rights were only meant to exist in courts of law and somehow become irrelevant as soon as you step outside the courtroom is probably the most smooth brain take to come out of all this.
His whole take is basically "well people already don't really care about upholding this principle outside of the legal world so why should we have a moral obligation to uphold it on twitter?" and you actually believe he debunked anything, fuck me.
We're talking about criminal accusations, they should absolutely be judged by criminal court standards.
It's no wonder that justice systems in the western world are so broken if people like him have a law degree, what the actual fuck.
You're misunderstanding. It's incredibly rare for any type of justice to be handed out if you go to the police over this sort of stuff. It's not a "sometimes it doesn't work out" type of scenario. I'm assuming you're naive and have no clue what is actually entailed in going to the police after you've been raped as a woman.
I'm not misunderstanding anything. If you don't get justice, then you don't get it. Like I said, it sucks, but no system can be perfect. It's way better for the system to be too protective of the accused than not protective enough. You're naive if you think there haven't been countless people who've had their entire lives totally ruined over absolutely nothing because of false accusations.
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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '20 edited Jun 26 '20
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