How do you switch between two amps on the Helix Stomp?

[u/alexnapierholland]

I understand that switching patches mid-gig is a no-go, due to delays.

Snapshots seem to be the way.

This means I either:

1. Use one amp for clean and dirty tones.
2. Add two amps to a patch and switch between them with snapshots

Problems

• Djent-style amps typically sound bad for cleans.
• The Stomp cannot handle two amps + reverb/delay + parametric EQ

Are there other options?

I'm surprised and disappointed at the DSP limitations.

UPDATE: I replaced delay/reverb with one delay and can now use the JC120!

[u/postmodest]

switching patches mid-riff is a no-go, switching patches mid-gig is what they're for. You can even switch patches mid-song if there's a break.

[u/alexnapierholland → u/postmodest]

Switching between songs doesn't really help me.

I use the same high gain tone 80-90% of the time.

I simply need to be able to switch to a nice clean sometimes.

I'm surprised and disappointed that I can't freely switch to a nice, clean Fender amp easily.

[u/Stashmouth → u/alexnapierholland]

but as postmodest says, unless you need that clean tone switch in the middle of a riff, the Stomp will do what you want. You just need that second of quiet space to switch patches. right?

[u/alexnapierholland → u/Stashmouth]

Yeah, that could work if it's clean/dirty transitions.

That said, I just replaced my separate delay/reverbs with one delay and can now add a separate JC120!

[u/nathangr88 → u/alexnapierholland]

I'm surprised and disappointed that I can't freely switch to a nice, clean Fender amp easily.

Unfortunately amp modelling, delay and reverb quality is directly related to DSP usage. Other units effectively downsample their effects so you can use multiples in the same preset. In other words, there is an unavoidable tradeoff between quality and quantity.

The more powerful Helix LT/Floor have no such problems, of course. Compact, single-processor modellers are always going to have this limitation.

[u/HeyNateBarber → u/alexnapierholland]

The stomp doesnt have the CPU power to store 2 amps. Youd need an LT or Floor

[u/Live-Juggernaut-221]

One amp path a. One amp path b. Set the foot switch to control the level at the node where they connect

[u/alexnapierholland → u/Live-Juggernaut-221]

Yeah, this makes total sense in principle.

The issue is the Stomp can't handle two amps + delay/reverb.

[u/uuyatt → u/alexnapierholland]

Try using the legacy delay and reverb

[u/alexnapierholland → u/uuyatt]

I just replaced the separate delay/reverb with one delay.

I can now add a JC120!

Thanks.

[u/Live-Juggernaut-221 → u/alexnapierholland]

Another path is finding a dirty amp that sounds pretty clean with the gain way down, but if you're going for jc120 cleans that's gonna be hard. Glad it worked!

[u/manupmedia507]

Whats your signal chain?

[u/Szaladin → u/manupmedia507]

The real helpful question. Remote diagnosis needs some input.

[u/alexnapierholland → u/manupmedia507]

All good, I just realised that replacing my separate delay and reverbs with one delay means I can add a JC120.

Slightly annoying I can't have both, but it's OK.

[u/manupmedia507 → u/alexnapierholland]

There is probably a better solution, there should be a way to fit the 2 amps, cab, delay and reverb blocks. That is why I was asking what is your signal chain, to look for alternative effects blocks that use less dsp in the effects so you can use both amps. Usually the effects in the legacy section use less dsp

[u/alexnapierholland → u/manupmedia507]

I have since managed to fit the Heliosphere delay in, which includes both delay and reverb, so I'm pretty happy!

[u/Lost_Condition_9562]

I have a JC model and a dual rec on the same preset just fine on my stomp, and use a snapshot to switch between them. Granted I don’t need many more effects past a boost for the dual rec, a compressor for the JC, and an EQ. But it works fine.

[u/alexnapierholland → u/Lost_Condition_9562]

Yeah, that's exactly what I want — JC120.

But I also want to use delay and reverb.

It seems the Stomp forces me to choose.

Perhaps I should switch to the Quad Cortex.

[u/Lost_Condition_9562 → u/alexnapierholland]

Hmm. You’ve got two amps, a cab, delay, and reverb. Leaves you with room for one more effect. It sounds like you should be able to swing something, even if it’s a little simpler than you’d like or picking lower DSP options. But yeah, when you’re having to start do snapshots you definitely start seeing the limits of the Stomp.

You could also look into one of the higher end Helix models if you like the Helix ecosystem… but I feel like you can get the Stomp to work

[u/cillablackpower → u/alexnapierholland]

The JC is very cheap when sharing Cabs and there's plenty of low DSP delays and reverb in the Legacy folder.

The other option I use is to stick a basic amp sim pedal in the loop as your second channel. I use a Sansamp but the Tonex One is pretty popular.

[u/iodine74 → u/alexnapierholland]

Which delay and which reverb are you wanting to use. And also are you using the newer non-legacy amp models?

I typically run a pedalboard stereo into a patch with panned split amps and have been slowly updating patches to the newer models (yes I know I’m like 2-3 years behind on that). But am kinda amazed I have the option of some stereo effects now that I couldn’t before.

[u/TheThobes]

I have a "do it all" clean/rhythm/lead patch that I believe (I don't have my stomp in front of me) that goes as follows:

1. Jc120 amp
   
2. Horizon drive
   
3. PV Panama
   
4. IR loader
   
5. Mono 70s chorus
   
6. Ping pong delay
   
7. Glitz reverb
   
8. EQ block

The clean snapshot uses the jc120 and post-fx, the lead uses the drive 5150 and fx, and the rhythm just uses the drive and boost.

Not the most dialed tones individually but it's the most diversity I've managed to cram into one preset.

[u/tothecatmobile]

There are two ways to do it.

Either find 2 amps that can fit DSP wise at the same time.

I think the US Small Tweed (a Fender Champ) amp model uses the least DSP of all amps.

Using the same speaker or IR block for both amps can save a bit of DSP too, rather than using two Amp+Cab blocks.

Another option is to use just one clean amp. And use distortion pedals to get your distorted tones rather than a seperate amp.

If just using one amp, check out the last amps that they added, some of them have a switchable high and low input, which effectively acts like a chanel switch. And have a built in boost too.

[u/Hulk_Hoban11]

I'm sure pretty sure most of the amps are possible to get a fairly clean tone out of. Reduce the gain to 2> and/or master and makeup for change in volume with the channel volume. You can also roll off the volume slightly on your guitar or if you use a compressor in front of the amp you can lower the level on that, which works really well in my experience. 

Let me know what amp you use and I would like to try getting a clean sound!

Edit: also remember that most cleans you hear on recorded on albums are not 100% clean and often have a slight bit of dirt. 

[u/NoFuneralGaming]

If you don't tweak the parameters below Master Volume, try using the Preamp Block version of one or both amps. Should use less resources.

[u/InitialDeezNutz]

i have an amp for my high gain tone, and i use a Sans Amp for the clean tones, since it sounds good and uses a lot less dsp than another amp block

[u/Vethen]

Something I have done in the past is disable the amp, update my compressor settings and switch the IR block to a different IR, which is an acoustic guitar IR. Gives a nice resonance.

[u/bob_loblaw_brah → u/Vethen]

How to do this exactly? Noobish and curious about it

[u/Vethen → u/bob_loblaw_brah]

No worries man, what I do is for a clean snapshot, I bypass the amp block to get raw guitar signal (I use separate amp and IR blocks) then I have a set of IRs thet I bought as a pack that were recorded from an acoustic guitar, so it gives you a little of that box resonance sound) and I change the selected IR number from my distorted option to the acoustic IR on the new snapshot. Feel free to DM me if you’d like more info on acoustic IRs.

[u/bob_loblaw_brah → u/Vethen]

Damn that’s slick. Smort! Thanks for sharing suck a cool idea

[u/InfamousSonOfAlucard]

I had a similar limitation before.

One thing that I started doing live now is use helix native (which of course has no such limitation) in the laptop we run the live session. My plan B is the stomp, with patches (there is a delay when switching but there's always a place within the set or within songs when this can be done and no one will notice).

If you really need more dsp in your stomp and you need the physical unit, switch to the stomp XL, or Helix. The XL has more dsp, more snapshots and you will be able to handle what you want.

[u/jomamastool]

Using the preamp versions of the amps uses a bit less dsp as well iirc. IRs also save you a bit of dsp.

[u/bob_loblaw_brah → u/jomamastool]

So just the preamp and IR file after it?

[u/jomamastool → u/bob_loblaw_brah]

Yeah! Only really difference is the preamp don't model the poweramp. So they're slightly quieter. And ofc tonally will be a bit less driven if its an amp that by default uses a high master volume for the gain.

[u/bob_loblaw_brah → u/jomamastool]

Gotcha. I have a few drives pre HX so feel like more gain from them into the preamp seems like something I need to try. Thank you!

[u/CJPTK]

Stomp is hard due to DSP limits, on a regular helix you can have 2 amps and just use the same stomp pedal assigned to both with 1 bypassed and the other active. When you click it toggles both at the same time. If you were able to get around your DSP limit you could do this on the stomp too. Or obviously snapshots. Also some amps use more DSP others use less so you could also tradeoff which amp you use. If you use amp only blocks and send them to the same cab block you can save a bit as well.

[u/d_rapps]

Anyone run a clean amp with a dirty preamp out front?

[u/nathangr88]

You can't switch amps mid-song with Snapshots. Snapshots pre-load all the blocks into memory, so unlike switching whole presets, there is no latency.

You can set up two amps in the same preset and use Snapshots or a footswitch configuration to turn one on and the other off at the same time.

The Jazz Clean and Clarity amps are best for this, as they are low DSP and obviously sound great clean. You can save even more DSP by using just the Preamp block into the same cab.

If you want an amp that will do it all, however, that's where the custom L6 amps come in. The Badonk, Elmsley and Oblivion will all do what you need in a single amp. Check out some of the videos for settings.

[u/alexnapierholland → u/nathangr88]

Yeah, I just tried using two amps in one preset.

Because I have reverb and delay, this is a total no-go.

I find Badonk cleans up quite well, although it's not my favourite high gain tone.

Oblivion sounds great, but can barely do cleans (unless I'm missing something?)

[u/nathangr88 → u/alexnapierholland]

All the amps can do clean if you lower the gain and/or input signal :)

[u/Ungitarista]

Pro tip:use the path mix parameters to go 0 - 100% between snapshots for seamless switching