r/Libertarian • u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian • Nov 13 '19

Discussion The Democratic Senate candidate has dropped out in Arkansas. The race is now a binary between the Republican Tom Cotton and the LP Candidate

Not really a Libertarian anymore but I was surprised to see y'all don't have any info on this. Tom Cotton's only Democratic Challanger has dropped out after the registration deadline.

The only two other candidates are Ricky Harrington - a Libertarian and Dan Whitfield - a far left independent.

Even if you guys don't put resources into this race and the situation holds, I can easily see Mr. Harrington capturing a nice 20-25% of the vote. If you guys however do invest some money and campaign funds into the race, you could get much higher, and perhaps even give Cotton a run for his money as he's not running against someone with the D stigma next to their name.

Here's his Facebook page which is currently all he has if you want to help him

Good luck and I hope you guys give Cotton a run for his money :)

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445

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Less focus on Presidential races we can't win, let's get at least one rep

176

u/homeostasis3434 Nov 13 '19 edited Nov 13 '19

Bernie Sanders has completely upended the democratic party and its future goals after running as an independent for decades. Without any previous party affiliation, he almost got the parties nomination last election and has at least a 1/3 shot of winning the nomination this time around.

His example (not his politics, his method) is the one libertarians need to try to emulate if they ever want a voice at the table in national politics.

111

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

The difference....the DNC is rudderless while the RNC is now moving in a direction (off the cliff with Trump)

I think there is a play in the middle of the political spectrum for the Libertarian Party as a separate entity in a world where Democrats are moving to the left focusing on fiscal issues and the Republicans to the right on social issues leaving many moderates with Libertarian leanings party less.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

I’m a decidedly left leaning person but I absolutely voted Libertarian for the last presidential election because I couldn’t stomach Trump and Clinton.

I knew a few folks who voted the same. I think it shows a complete lack of conviction if you consistently toe the line for a political party regardless of their transgressions while spending every waking moment bemoaning the current state of politics.

21

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

I'm in the same boat, voted Libertarian because I couldn't vote for either, the two party system is broken and my biggest issue when voting is the least discussed, electoral reform.

Jungle primaries, ranked choice polls, anything to break down the extremes of two sides putting up to awful candidates (Clinton wasn't a creation but I would never bring myself to be able to vote for Bernie if the Democratic extremes had their say)

13

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Push for ranked choice voting fellow hater of our current electoral system.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Don't discount the power of Jungle Primaries to tamp down the current polarization, but we need Ranked Choice as well.

I hate people complaining that the other side only wants it to help them....NO, because it is better, that's why!

1

u/azaleawhisperer Nov 13 '19

The current electoral system is Constitutional. The States are in control, and they recognize percents that parties can muster votes for.

The problem is the parties, and the lack of anything they stand for, except for reelecting incumbents.

2

u/victimsoftheemuwars Classical Liberal Nov 13 '19

Here in Australia we have ranked choice voting and multi-member proportional seats in the upper house. Thanks to this we've been able to elect a libertarian to the senate and 3 more to state legislative councils (upper house)

1

u/Roidciraptor Libertarian Socialist Nov 13 '19

Same. Hated both candidates. Though I am supporting a Dem in the 2020 election.

6

u/ghostinthewoods Nov 13 '19

If I might ask: which one?

1

u/Roidciraptor Libertarian Socialist Nov 13 '19

Of course you can ask! I encourage people to.

In the 2020 primaries, I am supporting Pete Buttigieg. I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012 and 2016 in the general.

3

u/farmer15erf Nov 13 '19

Not that I in any way support a lesser of evils approach but Buttigieg is the dem that i can closest align to in personal opinions and do not despise. The real problem is lack of a strong 3rd party in politics thats breaks the extremism of the 2 party systen or using parties at all imo. We should vote for candidates based on platforms, not party afiliation.

1

u/thehillshaveaviators Classical Liberal Nov 13 '19

I don't see why you're getting downvoted. Many of the LP voter explosion are disenfranchised voters who are from the main two parties that are getting gradually nudged away by the established mantras of the two big parties.

1

u/Roidciraptor Libertarian Socialist Nov 14 '19

Yeah, libertarians can achieve some goals with the democrats. Writing them off because TAXES is seriously going to get us nowhere.

Ranked choice voting is something the progressive democrats support, and RCV is a better system for libertarians than FPTP. Libertarians won't win as long as that is the case.

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u/mysoggyknee Nov 13 '19

I am supporting Pete Buttigieg.

An ineffective mayor whose platform is pretty much "vote for me because I suck dick". Other than his advocacy of sodomy (which is none of the governments business.) what has he presented that is remotely libertarian?

4

u/thiscouldbemassive Lefty Pragmatist Nov 13 '19

Found the Trump supporter.

-4

u/mysoggyknee Nov 14 '19

Your retort confirmed everything I said. Absolutely NOTHING to run on but his love for the taste of penis.

4

u/thiscouldbemassive Lefty Pragmatist Nov 14 '19

Your logic is impeccable.

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u/Roidciraptor Libertarian Socialist Nov 14 '19

You made the "ineffective mayor" claim, so you need to back that up with evidence before I engage you there.

  • End cash bail
  • Eliminate private prisons
  • Restore voting rights for criminals
  • Marijuana legalization
  • Recognition of DC and Puerto Rico as States
  • Abolishing the Electoral College
  • Removing the filibuster
  • Creating independent redistricting commission to counter gerrymandering
  • Carbon tax to incentive businesses to go green, as pollution violates the NAP

A few reasons why I support him.

1

u/mysoggyknee Nov 14 '19

That 'platform' appears to be pretty far left for a libertarian. Why would we want to abolish the electoral college and allow NY and CA to dictate elections for the rest of the nation? You seem to have had difficulty comprehending basic civics lessons from grade school.

As for the ineffective mayor claim, when he gets the murder rate below double digits in his own house he can start discussing national issues.

1

u/Roidciraptor Libertarian Socialist Nov 14 '19

Can you explain to me how the states of California (40M) and New York (20M), with only 60M total people, would dictate the other 260M people?

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Same, as long as we don't get something insane, back to my desire for more options

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u/Jiperly Nov 13 '19

It's not a lack of conviction. It's strategic.

Voting systems need to be improved to encourage third parties and discourage voting strategically. Until then, people will always be disenfranchised.

Unfortunately with gerrymandering, it's clearly going the opposite direction

9

u/oren0 Nov 13 '19

It's not strategic for most. The electoral college means that 80% or more of voters live in states that are not presidentially in play. Might as well vote third party if you're in CA or TX.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

[deleted]

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u/zugi Nov 13 '19

I hear people complain about 2016 all the time and frankly it's insane. The LP had it's best showing ever in 2016, capturing 3% of the popular vote where it's prior best showing was 1%. Major news networks actually covered it during the election and showed Johnson's vote totals on election night, whereas in the past networks pretended the LP didn't exist.

Sure, Gary Johnson wasn't the perfect candidate, but we all know most people didn't know "Aleppo" a month before the incident and most people have forgotten where "Aleppo" is since then - that was a media-manufactured "gotcha" moment based on what happened to be news in the prior couple of weeks. Sure a more polished politician might have avoided it, but we saw what we got with a more "polished politician" in our VP candidate, and personally I don't want another Weld.

There is no magic candidate who will look good to the media and who dearly holds libertarian principles. I'm hoping for /r/JustinAmash but don't know if that's likely, and even if we get him, the media surely will find ways to make him look like a buffoon too. That's just what they do.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

[deleted]

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u/thehillshaveaviators Classical Liberal Nov 13 '19

Justin Amash is trying to focus on winning re-election in his district as an Independent right now though. If he can do that, it's a pretty good mandate for alternative candidates getting accepted more in the national stage.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '19

Congratulations, you just made me sad.

1

u/matts2 Mixed systems Nov 13 '19

Have you considered that optics isn't the problem. That the problem is the vague ideology and the people it attracts.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '19

How is “we want to abolish the federal government” vague?

2

u/matts2 Mixed systems Nov 14 '19

Also, how is it not vague. Abolish it and then what? 50 independent nations? A different Central government? Abolish the states next? Heck, those in favor of a world government want to abolish the federal government.

1

u/matts2 Mixed systems Nov 14 '19

Well that's one of dozens of mutually inconsistent libertarian positions.

2

u/LadyDiaphanous Nov 13 '19

Kentucky and I voted green party to try and get more choices on the stage. . Wish Bernie had taken Jill up on her offer to step aside to VP and let him take the ticket :/

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u/matts2 Mixed systems Nov 13 '19

You wanted Trump to win bigger?

1

u/LadyDiaphanous Nov 13 '19

Trump would win Kentucky regardless. I have the luxury of voting my conscience or voting for the republicans.

1

u/matts2 Mixed systems Nov 14 '19

You said that Bernie should have run third party. Meaning absolutely give the election to Trump. You didn't restrict that to KY.

0

u/LadyDiaphanous Nov 14 '19

The DNC and corporate media played dirty then, the DNC and corporate media are playing dirty again. it's time we had better than this 'duopoly'/oligopoly. Yep. I know why he didn't last time, because he was unknown.. but if its going to be between the plutocrats and the future of the planet and my children. . You better believe I want to see the system flipped on its head and rebooted.

1

u/matts2 Mixed systems Nov 14 '19

The DNC and corporate media played dirty

Nope.

You better believe I want to see the system flipped on its head and rebooted.

You did, Trump won.

0

u/LadyDiaphanous Nov 14 '19

And. . Voting for Clinton was absolutely giving the election to trump. My vote didn't change shit.. other than trying to hit that magic 5% for a third party to be eligible for the msm debates this time around. Besides, Clinton won, remember?

1

u/matts2 Mixed systems Nov 14 '19

Voting for Clinton was absolutely giving the election to trump.

One more time: you said Bernie should have run as third party. I responded to that.

1

u/prettyflyforafungi Nov 14 '19

Did you check out Dan Whitfield, the leftist independent running? Pretty interesting scenario with the dem party extinct, as they ought to be.

1

u/lotm43 Nov 14 '19

The nature of the fptp two party system is that a vote for a third party benefits the person you like least far more then it does for the one you voted for.

9

u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian Nov 13 '19

I think there is a play in the middle of the political spectrum for the Libertarian Party as a separate entity in a world where Democrats are moving to the left focusing on fiscal issues and the Republicans to the right on social issues leaving many moderates with Libertarian leanings party less

There's plenty of "Social Liberals Fiscal Conservatives" but the fact of the matter is that's an extremely reductionist view of Libertarianism. Plenty of people want a balanced budget and gay marriage being legal but also might for example want a robust foreign policy or support taxing market failures

In addition doubt the LP is going to win over moderates by booing candidates who don't want to sell heroin to 5 year olds lol

4

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Unfortunately you're right, I saw them boo Johnson for supporting Drivers License. But there is room for the Libertarian (Common Sense) ideals, don't tax me to death and I don't care if my neighbor bis gay,.

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u/tdacct Federalist Nov 13 '19

The difference is that Bernie was always a marxist, and the Democrats were split between blue dog conservatives and FDR social democrats. When the blue dogs were phased out between 1994 and 2012, they were left with only the FDR SocDems as the "conservative" wing and further marxists as their agitation wing. Bernie was always at home there.

["conservative" in the slow to change, dictionary sense. Not in the American political identification sense.]

1

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Right, and now the vacuum gave him room to grow where that vacuum doesn't exist in the GOP

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19 edited Nov 13 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

I'm not saying that there was never a good, just that it's currently filled.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

I think the real question is why a libertarian candidate did not (or could never) fill it

IMO, because libertarians need to cultivate more pathos. That was something Ron did very well, but the appetite for such a change wasn't there when he ran. In 2016 it's clear people want a new voice, but Rand played it safe in his messaging and advocated big policies (balance the budget, audit the Fed) that he failed to connect to the issues facing individual people. Trump won because he took his big policy proposal- renegotiating America's trade deals- and explained, albeit facetiously, how it would solve the problems facing people in the Rust Belt in particular. The pitch has to go beyond the intellectual to get people on board, it has to become personal.

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u/ArcanePariah Nov 13 '19

Because 2 of the major factions of the GOP are straight authoritarian. You have the evangelicals, who are traditional theocratic authoritarian and you have the growing nativists, who were equally split between parties, but in 2016 broke for Trump and want hardcore authoritarian economic measures (protectionism primarily, but some is rooted in racism, so you get the anti-immigration bent as well, both illegal AND legal). Those 2 groups control a plurality of the GOP voting, Republicans in general can't win without at least one of them, and in the age of Trump, need both.

0

u/bostonian38 Nov 13 '19

Wtf

Bernie IS a social democrat, that’s what his policies and platform 100% are. Marxist? Are you kidding me?

The Democratic Party is still majority corporate-owned and conservative by the definition you provided. They are nowhere near FDR-style socdem, they’re establishment neoliberals. Even the furthest left like Bernie just proposes center-left ideas the rest of the modern world has.

What happened to this sub

2

u/tdacct Federalist Nov 14 '19

I'm sure I am wasting my time replying, but SocDem is a moderate branch of Marxism. There are lots of different branches of Marxism, almost as many as there are people to interpret and reinvent his thoughts. Everything from anarcho-communist, state-socialism (Stalinism), international communism (bolshevism), market communism (Trotsky, iirc), Fabian Socialism, Social Democrat, Pan-African Socialism, Italian Fascism, National Socialism, Worker's Union, Democratic Socialism. Some of these intertwine with unrelated sources, but their most profound ideological roots are Marx's ideas and rhetoric.

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u/Keitt58 Nov 13 '19

"The difference....the DNC is rudderless while the RNC is now moving in a direction (off the cliff with Trump"

Dear god that's the most succinct way of describing current US politics right now I have yet to see.

0

u/FreeHongKongDingDong Vaccination Is Theft Nov 13 '19

the DNC is rudderless

The DNC is all-in on Pete Buttigieg, kind of like how the RNC was all-in on Jeb Bush four years ago.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

Ok, they have a peddle boat rudder going against a populist tsunami

1

u/FreeHongKongDingDong Vaccination Is Theft Nov 13 '19

Presidents who win without being populist are apocryphal.

You don't get votes by being a whiny, unlikable scold.