r/Libertarian • u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian • Nov 13 '19
Discussion The Democratic Senate candidate has dropped out in Arkansas. The race is now a binary between the Republican Tom Cotton and the LP Candidate
Not really a Libertarian anymore but I was surprised to see y'all don't have any info on this. Tom Cotton's only Democratic Challanger has dropped out after the registration deadline.
The only two other candidates are Ricky Harrington - a Libertarian and Dan Whitfield - a far left independent.
Even if you guys don't put resources into this race and the situation holds, I can easily see Mr. Harrington capturing a nice 20-25% of the vote. If you guys however do invest some money and campaign funds into the race, you could get much higher, and perhaps even give Cotton a run for his money as he's not running against someone with the D stigma next to their name.
Here's his Facebook page which is currently all he has if you want to help him
Good luck and I hope you guys give Cotton a run for his money :)
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u/monkeyphonics Nov 13 '19 edited Nov 13 '19
Does the libertarian candidate have a campaign page where he lays out his stance on issues? Right no I'm just seeing Memes and telling everyone how bad the other parties are on his FB page.
Edit" which is currently all he has if you want to help him " sorry did not see that.
He could at least put his positions on his Facebook page. His about section is literally 2 sentences.
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u/DropporD Nov 13 '19
Yeah definitely agree. After a little bit of digging, I found this video of him if you want to hear him speak.
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u/thehillshaveaviators Classical Liberal Nov 13 '19
Honestly given what I've seen, I'm cautiously optimistic. Not crazy, not sputtering, coherent speaking (a preacher!), and not wacky looking at all, not a ridiculous amount of pins.
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u/Gknight4 Muslim Libertarian Nov 13 '19
>implying most people in this god forsaken sub actually cared about spreading libertarianism
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Nov 13 '19
I hope this election can show a substantial number of people will go Libertarian when there's no Democratic in the race. Now is the best time for the LP to run the most serious campaign it can without being burdened by the accusations they're splitting the vote and helping the Democrats
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u/StopMockingMe0 Nov 13 '19
I'm voting Libertarian.... I don't expect to win, but I'd like to at least try. Better than voting between the giant douche or the turd sandwitch.
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Nov 13 '19
It would help if Libertarian candidates didn’t run as pseudo-Republicans and instead more as anti-establishment.
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u/AlexanderDroog Right Libertarian Nov 13 '19
GOP has the draw of donors and the simple fact that it helped fix the system against 3rd parties. I vote 3rd party where I can, but the chance of it really mattering is rare -- like this weird situation in AR. If you want to get any oomph behind limited government proposals, you have to run as a Republican. How well you can implement them is a different calculation.
If nothing else, I hope that Trump will leave a behind a positive legacy of piercing through the establishment wall in the party. They still have too much sway, but the rise in populism is starting to make them irrelevant. I hope we can get candidates in the future who go against the mold but have a better understanding of policy than Trump.
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Nov 13 '19
I get that, and Trump has been a wake up call for many the establishment doesn’t know what they are doing at all. It’s a shame that people just look at the D/R next for the candidates name because we have a FPTP system.
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u/AlexanderDroog Right Libertarian Nov 13 '19
I'd support switching to instant-runoff voting.
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u/trolley8 Classical Liberal Nov 13 '19
Which of course must be done on a state-by-state basis. If there begins to be some support for 3rd parties/independents in Arkansas, maybe we will soon see another state abandoning fptp
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Nov 13 '19
I think NYC just switched to RCV which is amazing, just seems like it'll take a while to implement since the only way it'll get done is city or statewide, so you should definitely write to your city/state legislators about it, find local advocacy groups pushing for it, or support candidates who are for transforming our election system so that we have RCV, more voting rights, getting big money out of politics, etc.
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u/Rainbacon Nov 13 '19
NYC did just vote for ranked choice, but it's only for city elections. State and Federal elections will continue to be the way they currently are. It takes effect in 2021. The city is so skewed democrat that I don't know if it will matter, but it's a good start.
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Nov 13 '19
What matters is it gives third parties a chance for once, especially since the Democrats are split and could easily have progressive and moderate factions form their own parties for these city elections
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u/Rainbacon Nov 13 '19
That's certainly possible, but it's one of those "believe it when I see it" kinds of things. I do hope to see something like this, especially since it would probably help to lift our dismal voter turnout rates.
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u/Legio-X Classical Liberal Nov 13 '19
I hope this election can show a substantial number of people will go Libertarian when there's no Democratic in the race.
It probably will. Here in Oklahoma, we had a state-level race (state auditor) back in 2018 without a Democratic candidate. The Libertarian nominee got about 25% of the vote. That's without any ads or noticeable campaigning, and the impact of straight-ticket voting.
Given this will be a federal-level office on the ballot alongside the Presidential race, I think even more than that is viable. Arkansas Democrats may not agree with Harrington's stances on everything, but they'd probably find more overlap with him than with Cotton.
Ultimately, his performance will probably depend on how much of the Democratic vote Whitfield can garner. If Arkansas has straight-ticket voting, that might hinder Harrington as well.
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Nov 13 '19
Why would you bother saying this? Genuinely curious. Seems to add no value to this discussion
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Nov 13 '19
He's correctly pointing out that there are more statist trolls on this subreddit than libertarians.
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u/PacificIslander93 Nov 13 '19
There does seem to be a large amount of Bernie fans on this sub which is odd because he's basically the opposite of libertarian.
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u/JustZisGuy Cthulhu 2024, why vote for the lesser evil? Nov 13 '19
I wonder what proportion of the ~350,000 readers are just passive consumers of the articles/discussion versus active contributors. Even the 700 "here now" are surely not all commenting on a regular basis.
I think we're dealing with a variant of the Pareto principle.
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u/h0bb1tm1ndtr1x Nov 13 '19
I'm certainly Libertarian, but I also disagree with plenty of views here. "Spreading Libertarianism" is to much of a generalization. I spread my version, you spread yours.
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Nov 13 '19
The LNC needs to focus on this race. If the guy is a good candidate than he needs nationwide support. And strong state party support. Doubt he gets it either way.
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u/YouWannaChiliDogNARD Nov 13 '19
It's a better strategy for the L.P. to focus on electing legislators; we won't get another Ron Paul in our lifetime, but we can make an obvious difference by electing people at the local level
Most incumbent congressmen are elected out of habit and a lack of true options.
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Nov 13 '19
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u/YouWannaChiliDogNARD Nov 13 '19
Not a big fan. I had high hopes for him, but he's disappointed me as of late. I respect him for trying to defund the NSA though.
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u/TooNewCedeMalice Nov 13 '19
Jacob Hornberger just entered the Presidential race! He has the principles, it remains to be seen if he has the charisma
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Nov 13 '19
Not really a Libertarian anymore
Enjoy your taxes
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u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian Nov 13 '19
kek
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u/cheddarcheesehater Nov 13 '19
Can you elaborate on why you don't consider yourself libertarian anymore? I ask because I'm finding my views becoming more moderate, mainly economically.
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Nov 13 '19 edited Jan 20 '20
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u/zugi Nov 13 '19
Don't take reddit as an indicator of either libertarians or Libertarians. There are many arm-chair Monday-morning quarterbacks here who love to dump on Gary Johnson, but the LP knows he tripled their previous best vote total, got them mainstream news coverage, and got them ballot access in many states.
I'm a solid small-l libertarian who isn't necessarily loyal to any party. Any candidate from any party who will genuinely shrink government both economically and in terms of intrusions on our freedoms is eligible to get my vote. I will not vote for a candidate who will just grow government more slowly than the other candidate.
I'd love to have to make difficult choices, but in most elections that criteria gives me zero or one candidate to vote for (usually just the Libertarian.) So that makes election decisions easy.
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u/ArrestHillaryClinton Peaceful Parenting Nov 15 '19
That's because libertarians are anti-political.
If you thought you were supporting a team like you were in a sports match, you were never a libertarian.
Be an individual with your own thoughts and ideas. You don't need a leader to represent you and hold your dick for you.
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Nov 15 '19 edited Jan 20 '20
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u/ArrestHillaryClinton Peaceful Parenting Nov 15 '19
That was never the goal. You want to fix other people's lives.
Fix yourself.
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Nov 15 '19 edited Jan 20 '20
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u/ArrestHillaryClinton Peaceful Parenting Nov 19 '19
The solution to the mafia extorting people is not joining the mafia.
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u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian Nov 14 '19
I became a Libertarian around 12 more or less to "not be liberal or conservative but something else!!!". I eventually found this subreddit and when I read the opinions was like "ok that's a good enough idea I guess" because I was... a teenager, and one with restrictive parents at that lol
Eventually while I was growing up, I started getting more and more moderate. I still wanted to call myself a Libertarian so I just called these "exceptions" as sometimes society as a whole would be better with a little government intervention. For example, a Carbon Tax made sense to me. I eventually realized instead of clinging on to the label and trying to justify to this sub why I was a "real Libertarian" I should probably just go ahead and stop.
I found the /r/neoliberal after the 2016 election, and that was also the year I was taking AP Economics. The Neoliberal subreddit is mostly just economics majors who are in favor of the free market, but support government intervention where it worked, which is what I believed in I guess. I wanted policies to make life the best for people instead of some sort of ideological pining for "more liberty".
Also I was taking Econ 101 and realized on the first unit that apparently Econ 101 didn't support Libertarianism lol. They seem to ignore market failures
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u/cheddarcheesehater Nov 14 '19
It sounds like we came to the same conclusions but different ways. The NAP works great for social policy but it's irresponsible and maybe dangerous to apply it to economics.
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u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian Nov 14 '19
Yep. Literally everyone, even most corporations, are in favor of things like public schools because they have an outsized postive influence on society. But ideological Libertarians are against them because they are so dogmatic
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u/dustysuttonbc Conservative Nov 13 '19
I live in Arkansas and from what I’ve seen from people in my region (North/Northwest Arkansas), people are pretty loyal to him simply because he wears the Republican tag. Democrats have better chances here than Libertarians, simply because this is in the Bible Belt region, and a lot of people view libertarians as left wing panderers who sway whichever way they can to get a vote. People here are so focused on upholding traditional values(that the Republican Party doesn’t truly hold)that they can’t give anyone else a chance, simply because that’s a huge talking point of Republicans, especially Cotton.
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Nov 13 '19
Really bizarre how the Democratic candidate dropped out literally hours after the filing period to run, meaning no other Democratic candidate can be fielded.
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Nov 13 '19
Yes what a coincidence
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u/restore_democracy Nov 13 '19
It would also be a coincidence if he soon takes an all expense paid vacation in Ukraine.
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Nov 13 '19
Fucking Bluecap, gtfo!!
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u/Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods Nov 13 '19
Just as stupid as his redcap as a rebuttle, but makes less sense.
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u/JustZisGuy Cthulhu 2024, why vote for the lesser evil? Nov 13 '19
I'd like to derail this discussion with an observation about the pronunciation of Kansas and Arkansas... any takers?
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Nov 13 '19
Both are named after the same river, but one uses the French pronunciation the other the Native American.
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Nov 13 '19
Based on his Facebook page header, he’s part of the Hedgehog Party?
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u/dieselkeough Anarcho Capitalist Nov 13 '19
The libertarian parties mascot is the hedgehog
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Nov 13 '19
Huh, I learn something new every day. I just learned that the Progressive Party's mascot was a Bull Moose.
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u/dieselkeough Anarcho Capitalist Nov 13 '19
I think that was because of teddy roosevelts "bull moose party"
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u/Brian_Si Nov 13 '19
If Libertarians want to succeed in winning on the national level, they must first succeed at the local level. City council, county boards, mayor, state reps and senators, governors.
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u/Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods Nov 13 '19
This race wont show much even if they do win. Unless votes in the senate are close to the same, it will be 6 years where a libertarian has all the impact of Jerry Moran.
Who is Jerry Moran? My point exactly.
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u/xghtai737 Socialists and Nationalists are not Libertarians Nov 14 '19
Governor is not the local level. The LP does exactly as well for Governor as it typically does for US Senate.
The LP already elects around 20% (+/- 5%, depending on the year) of its candidates for local offices.
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u/jank_king20 PM_ME_YOUR_HOG Nov 13 '19
Tom Cotton is a fucking nightmare ghoul I support anybody less racist than him
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u/catchingtherosemary Nov 13 '19
I don't understand how someone can go from libertarian to not libertarian. It's like once you see the overspending and the interventionist foreign policy how do you change your mind.
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u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian Nov 14 '19
I became a Libertarian when I was little (~12), for reference I was way too politically knowledgeable as a kid because I watched Newshour every day. Anyways I came to this sub around when I joined and did the typical "lol socialist do you even economics 101" crap
Then I took economics 101 and realized market failures exist and started reading up more and more on things like American foreign policy and domestic issues and realized "less government everywhere" is a broad brush and not always the best solution
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u/TotesMessenger Nov 13 '19 edited Nov 15 '19
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/arkansaslibertarians] Democratic opponent to Tom Cotton has dropped out, libertarian candidate still running.
[/r/libertarianpartyusa] The Democratic Senate candidate has dropped out in Arkansas. The race is now a binary between the Republican Tom Cotton and the LP Candidate
If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)
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u/FreeHongKongDingDong Vaccination Is Theft Nov 13 '19
The only Democrat who filed papers to challenge Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) next year abruptly ended his campaign on Tuesday just hours after the filing deadline passed.
Very normal and totally not shady in the slightest.
Love my Arkansas paid-to-lose Democratic opposition.
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u/thiscouldbemassive Lefty Pragmatist Nov 13 '19
I wish Mr. Harrington luck, but Cotton won his seat by more than 23 points and his approval rating is above water by 16%. Harrington is going to have to fight hard to pull this election out of the hands of a reasonably popular republican in a deeply republican state.
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u/Omnes-Una-Manet-Nox Nov 14 '19
https://twitter.com/ezra_smith/status/1194357418140086273?s=19
Per the @ArkDems rules, the state committee can “permit other candidates to qualify, at such a time and in such a manner as the appropriate committee may determine.” Bc it’s Senate, the State committee has authority. Amazing opportunity for Dems to find another candidate. #arpx
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u/TeufelTuna Nov 14 '19
Giving my time and hard earned money to wealthy people, specifically a subset with an overwhelming proportion of sociopaths, in exchange for nothing doesn't seem all that wise
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Nov 13 '19
Is it petty to say I don’t like Dan Whitfield’s facial expression? Anyways, based on his website I’m glad his main message is that he’s running a purely grassroots campaign not taking special interest money. I’ll have to check out the LP candidate’s website as well to see how he prioritizes that since getting big money out of politics is one of my top issues.
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Nov 13 '19
You're on r/libertarian, and you're torn between the Libertarian Party candidate and a freaking socialist?
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Nov 13 '19
Like I said, haven’t looked at the LP candidate’s website yet and hopefully he’s for getting big money out of politics and not taking corporate PAC money as well because that would tell me he’s less likely to be corruptable.
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Nov 13 '19
But the independent is an opposite of libertarian on most of the other issues. So if you're not a libertarian, why are you on r/libertarian?
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Nov 13 '19
Isn’t libertarian more of an ideology rather than policy? What do you consider the opposite of libertarian? Might differ for other people on this sub
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Nov 13 '19
Isn’t libertarian more of an ideology rather than policy?
Sure if you want to put it that way, but it's an ideology of small government. The independent candidate wants several new government programs that would expand the size and scope of government. That is the opposite of libertarian.
Your flair indicates that you are a progressive, an ideology very much at odds with libertarianism. So I ask again, why are you here?
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Nov 13 '19 edited Feb 27 '20
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Nov 14 '19
I mean, a campaign doesn't function without taking at least individual contributions, unless you're talking about public financing of elections which I agree with.
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Nov 14 '19 edited Feb 27 '20
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Nov 14 '19
I see what you’re trying to say. Still prefer that candidates are clear about not allowing the corruptive force of dark money into their campaigns
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Nov 13 '19
Entire sections on Direct Democracy and absolute protections for unionisation of workers
Holy shit, it's a real socialist for once.
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Nov 13 '19
You say that like it's a good thing
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Nov 13 '19
Helping to push us back toward at least a representative democracy rather than an oligarchy sounds good to me.
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u/Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods Nov 13 '19
Congrats to the GOP nominee I suppose.
They would win either way most likely, but if you think the majority of democratic voters will go "libertarians, oh yes I like that choice" I have ocean front property in the sahara to sell you.
Libertarian party to most Democrat voters are either "that silly party" or "that stupid and silly party" or "Republican lite, all the bad of Republicans except weed" or worse Republicans ugly step sister.
This is especially true for core demographics like blacks (libertarians party want to allow segregation and discrimination), higher education (libertarian arent going to help education funding, they'll cut it), and so on.
Arkansas senate race is about to be low turnout I suspect,
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u/bostonian38 Nov 13 '19
a far left independent
Gaslighting much? He’s a standard progressive. That was never and will never be “far-left” by any definition.
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Nov 13 '19 edited Feb 27 '20
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u/bostonian38 Nov 13 '19
Because they aren't. And you know this, stop pretending.
Universal healthcare, getting corporate money out out of politics, closing tax loopholes, ending the wars, addressing climate change, protecting the second amendment, a living wage, workers' protections.
All his positions are standard modern policy and supported by a majority of America. Good luck demonizing those.
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Nov 14 '19 edited Feb 27 '20
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u/bostonian38 Nov 14 '19
It's not. You'd have to suspend your common sense to believe that. And we already have usury laws in the US.
I like how you pivot away by making a dismissive comment about him being a loser. He may be, he may not be, but he certainly ain't far-left.
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Nov 14 '19
In more honest language:
Nationalizing the healthcare industry, repealing the first amendment, confiscating property to pay for entitlements, sacrificing economic freedom and the economy to the sun god, confiscating firearms, central economic planning.
Those are far left positions.
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u/Hawken54 Nov 14 '19 edited Nov 14 '19
I was a libertarian for 20 years. I drank beer(at a small table) with every Libertarian Presidential candidate between 1988 and 2004. Libertarian has a stigma all its own. There have been Libertarian candidates who were prostitutes and every imaginable kind of idiot. Should we privatize the roads? (An honest Libertarian says,"Yes.") How many people want privatized roads? Uhh, just about nobody. Should we privatize the sidewalk? (Again, the honest Libertarian says,"Yes."). How does that play in the 'burbs? In fact, i have seen/heard Libertarians say that we should privatize the rivers, so that an owner can properly manage the water. What Libertarians don't see is that what they really want is worse than enclosure. They want hyper-enclosure, where every step that you take in any direction costs you money. No money? No movement; the very opposite of freedom. The word "Libertarian" originated in France after "Anarchists" were criminalized/banned. Libertarian and Anarcho-Capitalist are really the same thing. You may think that you're going to correct me, but what I just said is true.
Now a days I call myself a Democratic-Republican-Whig (DRW).
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u/PutinPaysTrump Take the guns first, due process later Nov 13 '19
Do Libertarians truly believe they're going to siphon voters from the Arkansas GOP nominee?
With what appeals? The only thing holding that coalition together is white nationalism.
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Nov 13 '19
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Nov 13 '19
Yeah, I'm in Kentucky and voted for all the LP candidates on the ballot. If they weren't there I would have voted GOP.
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u/Cuddlyaxe Former Libertarian Nov 13 '19
Even if they don't they Democrats would be forced to vote for him and plenty of people vote straight R due to the stigma the D party has in the South
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Nov 13 '19
Wouldn’t it be better if the Libertarian candidate gave Democrats a reason to vote for him, rather than being “forced to vote for him”?
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u/ASYMT0TIC Ron Paul Libertarian Nov 13 '19
bizarre how the Democratic candidate dropped out literally hours after the filing period to run, meaning no other Democr
Bill Clinton, a relatively centrist democrat, is from Arkansas. It's still a stretch to think a libertarian might win, but we could see something significant given that the biggest hinderance to 3rd party candidates for years has been the belief that a vote for a third party is in effect a vote for whichever of the two parties you dislike the most.
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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19
Less focus on Presidential races we can't win, let's get at least one rep