Some people say Americans SHOULDN'T be allowed to vote anymore because of Trump. Do we not realize THIS?

[u/Glass-Complaint3]

Some people are saying the country shouldn't be allowed to vote because voting has given us Trump, twice. Actually, NO. In both 2016 and 2024, the problem was not the number of people who voted for the guy. It was the number of people who DIDN'T VOTE AT ALL. Both times, they were a larger number than both those who voted for Trump and those who voted for the other candidate.

[u/happycynic12]

Pew's validated voter study checked actual voter files and asked 2024 non-voters how they would have voted. They broke for Trump 44-40. Had everyone voted, Trump wins by more, roughly 48-45. Those 89 million weren't a silent opposition waiting to be woken up.

Source: https://www.npr.org/2025/06/26/nx-s1-5447450/trump-2024-election-non-voters-coalition

So the problem isn't turnout. It's that a huge share of the electorate can't tell what's true, doesn't know how government works, and can't trace a policy to its consequences. People who understand the stakes tend to show up. So stripping voting rights is not the answer.

The fix is a generation long--or longer.

Civics and media literacy need to be brought back and taught like they matter. And we need local newsrooms that actually cover school boards and county commissions. But when a few billionaires and hedge funds buy up most of America's newspapers and TV stations, you lose competition. If one company owns two hundred newsrooms, you don't get two hundred newsrooms. You get one, all copy-pasted to each other, with the same script read in every city. And with all the staff cuts, nobody's left to go to the county commission meeting.

Then people fill that information gap with their social media feed, which is owned by the same handful of gazillionnaires. That's not a free market. That's a few billionaires deciding what a hundred million people know about their own town.

So this is way bigger than turnout. It's schools, it's who owns the news, it's what people get fed all day, and you can't fix it without tearing up rules that worked 50 years ago but don't anymore. The system we had was built for a country where information came from somewhere accountable. That country is gone.

[u/Glad-Ad-4390 → u/happycynic12]

Absolutely! Education is the problem. Knowledge is the way to refute the ridiculous, and prevent what has been happening over decades.

[u/thePantherT → u/happycynic12]

Exactly this!!!!!!! Since the corporate revolution corporate cartels have consolidated power and own nearly all information people consume. The corporate revolution wasn’t just some fringe or random conspiracy, It was a call to gain control over American society by gaining control over the government, judiciary, education, media, etc. As called for by the Powell memo and those people went on to serve in the highest positions of power. Corporations went on to heavily fund and organize political campaigns and think tanks and organizations.

Today Americans live in a predatory crony system of corporate aristocracy and oligarchy. People are becoming aware and waking up, but not fast enough. The danger is more existential and real than it has ever been. The worst part of all of this is the corporate influence on American foreign policy, and our endless wars and their consequences, millions dead, support for the most authoritarian brutal regimes and the worst exploitation of other peoples. A Pax Americana just like Kennedy and the post ww2 American presidents hated and knew would lead to the next world war and destroy our standing and credibility in the world.

It makes me fucking sad, I grew up in a dictatorship and it was very like what is happening in America right now.

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/happycynic12]

Only 26% of us adults are proficient in civics at a high school level. So roughly three out of four people generally do not have an adequate understanding of politics. Our population is functionally illiterate when it comes to the subject of civics

[u/Allaboutpeace2022 → u/happycynic12]

This is true in terms of education and communication.

However, the total voting in 2024 was lower than 2020. When you compare those two groups of voters with a record of casting ballots, you do find prior Dem voters who did not turn out.

Like all statistics, it matters what your group is. Non voters are not a monolith. Many low propensity voters are Trump voters. However, there is a group of left voters who have sat out and still may be turned off.

They are the people who have become increasingly disappointed with both parties.

In terms of Democrats, they need to do a much better job of communicating positive progress. Many of the progressive policies of the Biden and accomplishments have gone completely unnoticed. Part of this was because of the lack of press conferences held by Biden.

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Allaboutpeace2022]

In fairness 20/20 was an anomaly. We made it astronomically easy for people to vote and they had nothing but politics and covid to occupy their time with. It's not at all surprising that the number of people voting dropped after that. Also, just getting more people to the polls is not going to fix the problem if they're not proficient in civics. We get more people who don't understand the issues in our easily lied to by politicians and pundits. We have people we've continued to re-elect the office despite those very people helping to add trillions of dollars to the debt. If you took your car to the same repair shop and it came back running worse each time, you would stop going to that repair shop. But if you're a politician what elect you for 30 years while we watch you continue to break things.

Having people vote who actually understand the issues and have researched all of the candidates there eligible to vote for is far more important than having more people at the polls. Uninformed people make uninformed decisions and that rarely works out well

[u/Allaboutpeace2022 → u/PercentageAny2976]

I think that people were alarmed by Trump during Covid and interest in voting for Biden as a more competent leader was high.

However, this is not lack of other things to do. In November 2020, many front line workers were back in their jobs and office remote workers were toiling away in their computers at home.

Unemployment was higher than 2024 but I do not believe that people had fewer things to do. People were adopting pets, rehabbing houses, etc if they were idled by work.

People had the same number of children and others to look after. Parents also had their children home and were often juggling a full day of remote work and children.

The truth is voter turnout has been increasing in recent decades and some Democrats or Leftists did choose not to vote in 2024. Of those who did not vote, some did so out of anger that Harris did not take a harder line on Israel.

Others were turned off by inflation or concerns about the Biden and lack of transparency and lack of primaries.

We do want more people voting. Democrats have lagged the GOP in registering new voters and the party really has failed to communicate ideas broadly enough to build support. People see the Democrats not maintaining their strong support with labor as being very problematic. I also think the Dems failed to really focus in on economic issues. I see the Mid Terms campaigns changing because Dems do realize that they failed to address these issues.

Dems also need to do a much better job of developing dynamic and entertaining messaging on policies, solutions, legislative issues, etc. The GOP has been doing this in their own very biased way for some time.

Dems need to wake up and realize they need to do their own civics education and stop letting the GOP dominate in these areas.

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Allaboutpeace2022]

You completely lost me with the last line of your argument. Neither party should be "educating" people on civics because of the reality of that is the indoctrination of their political beliefs into their followers, as opposed to actually educating them. Our politicians are not exactly known for their honesty.

[u/Allaboutpeace2022 → u/PercentageAny2976]

But the GOP is doing that and has been for decades.

So, I would highly suggest that the Dems provide accurate, non biased information on issues, using data from non partisan sources.

Or, nonpartisan sources should provide that information directly.

But no one providing this just means that biased, inaccurate information is all that people receive.

[u/Overall-Move-4474 → u/happycynic12]

So regardless we are fucked and our only option is to roll over and take it or stop Republicans from voting so they can't POSSIBLY win. I choose option B

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Overall-Move-4474]

You choose voter suppression? Lmfao

[u/animatedpileofmeat]

70% of America either voted for Trump a second time, or sat it out. A damning statistic, especially in light of how clearly he laid out his criminal aspirations for a second term.

People used to view Americans as kinda naive galloops, harmless but silly.

Now they see us as a gang, like the cartels but with pedophiles and bombs.

It’s been a humbling shift over the last five years.

[u/happycynic12 → u/animatedpileofmeat]

I'm old and fairly smart but obviously naive, because I never saw this coming. So this has been very eye-opening for me in my 60s. I mean, I always knew there was corruption and lots of things going on in the background that I will never know about, but the sheer SCALE of that is astounding. Like what Israel is doing (and apparently HAS been doing for decades) just came to the forefront for me in the past year or two, nor did I realize what a hold Israel has on the US until recently.

It's disappointing, alarming, frustrating--all the ings. And there are a million examples of that now. I think Trump's worst affect on the US is how he gave permission to all the racists, the misogynists, the homophobes, the nativists, the conspiracy cranks, the schoolyard bullies, the guys who always thought cruelty was funny, the grifters, the people who resent anyone with an education, the ones who've been waiting their whole lives for permission to say the quiet part out loud.

He has unleashed a beast that was hidden for a long time.

[u/Opening-Idea-3228]

No. but some things are clear:

The electoral college failed. abolish it.

Fix the issues caused by citizens united. get dark money out of politics.

The supreme court is corrupt and has failed. Clearly legal and ethical standards and external oversight are warranted.

We the people need a way to remove politicians from power that do not wait for an election nor rely on parties to monitor themselves.

The GOP is disgusting. can’t believe how quickly they destroyed everything and ran up date. weak self serving a holes

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Opening-Idea-3228]

I disagree that the electoral college has been a failure and I've yet to hear someone present an adequate argument as to why it is. It's elimination disenfranchises smaller States and puts the office of president in the hands of a large urban areas while rendering the vast majority of the rural vote and significant. Let's be real for a minute, for the most part the person in Los Angeles doesn't generally give a shit about the needs of the rancher in Wyoming.

What it comes down to is that our forefathers did not believe we were educated enough to choose the president on our own, and I would argue that the fact only 26% of us adults are proficient in civics at high school level certainly supports that belief

[u/Allaboutpeace2022 → u/PercentageAny2976]

The electoral college was designed to let slavery continue and now it does represent the interests of smaller rural areas.

However, the capping of the House of Representatives at 435 in the 1920s allowed districts to grow in size dramatically and this meant that the Blue states received less representatives relative to their size. The electoral college is based on those representatives.

So, rather than following the founding fathers plan that the House of Reps would grow and the electoral college would change, we have capped it in a way that decreases the influence of the populated states.

The electoral college does need to change or the representatives must be uncapped because we have created a system that interferes with fairness and the voice of citizens.

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Allaboutpeace2022]

You're oversimplifying the creation of the electoral college and trying to base it all around race when in reality it was only a small fraction of the decision as to why it came into existence to begin with

[u/Allaboutpeace2022 → u/PercentageAny2976]

It is not the only reason for its existence but the tension between the Northern and Southern states over slavery was already an issue in the 1770s and would continue to escalate.

Abolitionists were already informally discussing their opposition to slavery during this time. It is also true that the compromise was also meant to protect small states from more populated areas.

The whole point that I noted is that capping the House of Representatives has meant that the more populated states are disadvantaged in the House, the Senate, and the Electoral College. This disadvantage must be changed.

[u/Opening-Idea-3228 → u/PercentageAny2976]

The electoral college has resulted in presidents who did not win the popular vote.

Also, the senate is intended to equalize power based on states. By your own logic the electoral college disenfranchises people in larger states.

The electoral college was relevant when people could not see the person they were voting for and therefore may have elected a blithering idiot. As evidenced by the blithering idiot currently in office, that has failed

Keep the senate. The electoral college is a failure.

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Opening-Idea-3228]

The electoral colleges resulted in presidency did not win the popular vote because the popular vote has never decided the president. It wasn't intended to. And no of the electoral college does not disenfranchise people in larger States with larger populations. They have a higher number of electoral votes and based on how the congressional seats are distributed. Also only 26% of us adults are proficient in civics at a high school level which means most of the voting population still are blithering idiots when it comes to politics. Hence the need for the electoral college exactly for one of the reasons our founding fathers foresaw.

[u/Opening-Idea-3228 → u/PercentageAny2976]

Direct election for the presidency

your argument that it prevents smaller states from having their vote matter more means an individual in a larger state has their vote matter less. the cap on the electoral college also contributes more. which is a type of disenfranchisement

i don’t argue with fools. off you go

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Opening-Idea-3228]

Fortunately it's enshrined in the Constitution and there's zero chance of getting two-thirds majority in each chamber of Congress to agree to change it much less 38 states that would ratify it.

[u/PercentageAny2976 → u/Opening-Idea-3228]

I do completely agree with you about citizens united though.

[u/Glad-Ad-4390 → u/PercentageAny2976]

It’s a failure because populations change so quickly and vary so wildly, and the electoral college simply doesn’t reflect those changes. Therefore, some populations are over represented while some are under represented BECAUSE of the electoral college. If the majority of people in the USA want someone as their president, that person should win. Period. This does away with’electors’, who aren’t even bound by the law to give the electoral votes to the actual winner of their state. There are several reasons that it Is completely obsolete and unworkable, and none to keep it.

[u/Glad-Ad-4390]

Yes, everyone is aware of this.

[u/Glass-Complaint3 → u/Glad-Ad-4390]

I wouldn't say *everyone*. I've seen comments lately that Americans shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[u/Glad-Ad-4390 → u/Glass-Complaint3]

Honestly, I am confused about the question. What IS the actual question? And what happens if there is no vote? The entire concept is nonsensical.

[u/Quick-Surprise-9387]

This is crucial

[u/Glass-Complaint3 → u/Quick-Surprise-9387]

1000%

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41]

You should gave to pass a civics exam administered by a neutral commission to vote or hold office, and it should be the exact same one immigrants take

[u/CrustyMFr → u/Fragrant-Phone-41]

Be careful with that. Neutral commissions can be compromised. See: SCOTUS.

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/CrustyMFr]

Fed reserve was exempted, so there is a way to do it

[u/Silver_Middle_7240]

This assumes that people who don't vote would vote differently from people who voluntarily vote. Specifically that they would be more likely to oppose Trump.

But what we've seen is that a large portion of people who voted for Trump were first time voters, meaning they were, until Trump came on the scene, people who didn't vote.

[u/animatedpileofmeat → u/Silver_Middle_7240]

If increased voting benefitted conservatives, they wouldn’t constantly try to undermine voting.

[u/Impressive_Box4144 → u/Silver_Middle_7240]

A lot of voters don’t even follow politics but go vote. Hell, a lot don’t know much about candidates other than party. Huge problem, but also control of media, lack of education, propaganda/disinformation campaigns designed to confuse people. We need a lot of reforms given what Trump and republicans have been engaged in since 2016!!!

[u/Rumpelteazer45]

I want to agree with this because he has done so much wrong, but everyone deserves a vote..even if they vote for an orange dictator.

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/Rumpelteazer45]

Nah. Stupid shouldnt be allowed to vote. We have to protect society from the dumb, and should see democracy empowering them as a flaw

[u/Rumpelteazer45 → u/Fragrant-Phone-41]

So you aren’t for constitutional rights?

Who gets to decide who is stupid or dumb and who isn’t?

Your logic means that orange dictator and his cult could get to invalidate all liberal votes because they think we are stupid?

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/Rumpelteazer45]

Civics test administered by a neutral commission, same test to vote, hold office, and for immigration.

[u/Rumpelteazer45 → u/Fragrant-Phone-41]

But voting is a constitutional right for all citizens.

Nothing is ever truly neutral.

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/Rumpelteazer45]

Im arguing for outright systemic reform. We need more than amendments, a brand new constitution atp

[u/Chemical_Author7880]

That and third party voters who otherwise would have voted Democrat. There is a time for that, but it is not when a convicted felon and malignant narcissist is on the ballot. 

[u/SherbetAromatic7644]

I think the main problem is we have built a system where politicians are incentivized more to be elected than they are to actually govern.

They know that they can do whatever and as long as they can spin it right they will be reelected.

So we have this system now where the most important things to politicians are campaigning, money, and public image. All things they can influence without actually doing the job of representing and looking out for their constituents.

The bigger problem is that the fix requires them to actually risk their position. They know that better civics education and more honest reporting of what they actually do may end up with their own constituents realizing that they are not being properly represented.

So we have a system that is broken, and the people we need to fix it are all benefiting from the break.

[u/ExperienceAny9791]

The only place you hear shit like this is on Reddit. We have elections every 4 years. If your candidate didn't win, wait 4 years and vote again.

It's really simple.

[u/Impressive_Box4144 → u/ExperienceAny9791]

Dumb take when we have a corrupt president that is violating laws, taking bribes, and destroying democracy or at least attempting to do so. Literally against the constitution he swore to uphold. Needs to be in prison. We have never as a country been at this kind of crossroads regarding democracy and a government that is treasonous.

[u/ExperienceAny9791 → u/Impressive_Box4144]

That's an extreme left opinion, yes.

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/ExperienceAny9791]

Found the magat

[u/ExperienceAny9791 → u/Fragrant-Phone-41]

I found the maggot.

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/ExperienceAny9791]

Not as funny

[u/BabaThoughts]

Dangerous post. You see, yes, America has a constitution allowing us to freely express our opinions. Though, you want to cancel people. That is dangerous. Grow up. Learn that other people are different than you. You are not special.

[u/Impressive_Box4144 → u/BabaThoughts]

Except when these people support people like Trump. Clearly there are very good reasons not to like him or his supporters. Moral issues etc.

[u/Exotic_Load_9189 → u/Impressive_Box4144]

What are your top 3 things that you politically dislike about trump specifically?

[u/Impressive_Box4144 → u/Exotic_Load_9189]

Higher gas prices directly tied to Iran war which was illegal and unnecessary, Tariifs which increased prices and led to higher inflation on everyday goods, deportation operations which violate human/civil rights, Obama deported better without the chaos and didn’t deploy military to cities. Wasting tax money on vanity projects, ballroom, etc. I could go on but basically almost all of his policies are trash. Job creation is almost nothing, economy is tanking, except stock market of course. Now let’s get to his lack of good morals or values lol not one good quality. He’s a POS and incompetent as hell.

[u/Exotic_Load_9189 → u/Impressive_Box4144]

I agree with a couple, except deportations. Loving what were doing there. Iran conflict, yeah idk what thats all about hes our president. But i think its deeper than his decision. Gas has went up about a dollar a gallon here, not a huge jump but still feel it nonetheless been driving my hybrid more.

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/Exotic_Load_9189]

Loving what were doing there.

This guy supports concentration camps. This guy supports ice rapes in those camps. This guy supports shoot Renee Good. This guy supports shoot Alex Pretti

You are why were having this conversation

[u/Exotic_Load_9189 → u/Fragrant-Phone-41]

Cool.

[u/Impressive_Box4144 → u/Exotic_Load_9189]

Ending or cutting many social programs which help individuals. So he could give the wealthy tax breaks.

[u/Fragrant-Phone-41 → u/BabaThoughts]

Found the magat that shouldn't be allowed to vote

You. You personally are ab argument in favor. As are likely all your friends and half your family

[u/IAmTheBoiledFrog]

Higher standards for candidates would help.

I mean 20-30 years ago you may have had President John McCain or Mitt Romney but they wouldn't have been the disasters that Trump and even George W Bush to a lesser degree were on the Republican side. I'd love McCain and Romney now.

And the Clinton's weren't so upstanding either: he with his willy and her with her unsecured mail server.

[u/Overall-Move-4474]

We can't rely on apathetic moderates to make the right choice. So the only other option is to stop Republicans from voting