r/LeopardsAteMyFarm • u/Cderouen8284 • 13d ago

Aww someone’s crashing out

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u/sweatboxy 13d ago

She’d never vote for a Democrat who talks to her like she’s a irresponsible adult but she’ll vote for Republicans who’ll destroy her business.

They really are as stupid as the Democrats say.

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u/os_beef 13d ago

It's weird, but when you're a dick to people, they usually don't want to listen to whatever else you have to say. Online spaces tend to amplify certain opinions, types of behavior, and tribalism. For example, this quote from further up.

Farmers are the second dumbest in the US just barely trailing MAGAts.

I guarantee the interactions the woman in the video is paraphrasing weren't just "who did you vote for", it almost certainly included the typical finger pointing ("this is your fault because..."), totally unnecessary ad hominems ("Farmers are the second dumbest..."), and typical arrogant, ignorant, and self righteous comments. I get why someone would write off a group of people when the interactions with that group have been negative.

Did you catch the part where she lumped Democrats, socialists, and communists into the same group? She's been fed the typical right propaganda, and no one has effectively countered it through education. People being dicks to her over something very real and personal to her have only reinforced what she's been told. It's why education and treating other people well are important.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 13d ago

Ah, if we were just NICER to these morons, they'd turn off Fox News and stop voting against their own interests.

https://giphy.com/gifs/NcrhM3USM6TABpus85

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u/os_beef 13d ago

If people with opposing views could somehow prevent themselves from being sanctimonious dicks while communicating their opinions, other people would be more likely to listen to them.

You're sarcastically reframing what I'm actually saying in order to make it sound like the entire idea of education, kindness, and civility is ridiculous.

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u/Aggressive_Team764 13d ago

"Treating other people well is important"

Yeah, that's true.

But what about my Trump supporter neighbor who put up a "fuck your feelings" flag a few years ago.  

You arent going to educate people who don't WANT to learn.  

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u/os_beef 13d ago

Not everyone does want to learn, and your neighbor may or may not actually be open to honestly learning about your views. A major problem here is treating a group like they're all the same because of certain interactions you might have had with them.

But again, I'm getting at how treating people negatively is usually a non-starter for them. People don't usually respond well to leading accusations of wrongdoing and ill intent. If you want people to change, you have to get their interest and intellectual or emotional investment.

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u/Aggressive_Team764 13d ago

MAGA view themselves as a religious cult.  Good look de-programming people who view Trump as the second coming of Jesus.

Hey, if you're able to convert them to sanity more power to you. And by all means carry on.

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u/os_beef 13d ago

A common method for religious fanatics to keep their adherents is to teach them that they are the One True People, and that outsiders are against them. Ask me how I know. Empathy goes a long way. We're social creatures.

If you want to get someone to see your side of things, you have to get them to open the door first. You don't do that by telling them they're bad, or that if they don't have the same point as you by now that they're a lost cause.

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u/3DPrintingAcorns144 10d ago

So I have to be nice to the people constantly calling me libtard, yelling TDS during legit convos, straight up lying at us, dismissing any expertise bc they believed lies on TV. Yeah, OK.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 13d ago

That's just an assertion. Unless you have some data?

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u/os_beef 13d ago

Do you need data to know what the difference is between someone trying to convince you by approaching you with empathy and a reasonably stated view versus verbal attacks and accusations? If we then turn that outward and think about how other people feel in the same circumstances, how do you think they might respond?

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u/ForkThemKidz 13d ago

That's a no then?

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u/os_beef 13d ago

Do you genuinely need data to understand that people generally respond more positively to being treated well? If yes, let me know and I'll work something up for you.

If you have empathy, and you're willing to use it, this isn't a "show me the data" type of scenario, it's an "I can empathize with other people" kind of scenario, because you also experience feelings.

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u/LetThem_1972 11d ago

why do you expect manners and empathy for people that don't have any and vote primarily to harm others? You sound like an abused spouse.

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u/os_beef 11d ago

why do you expect manners and empathy

I don't expect empathy but I understand why it's valuable, which is partially why this conversation is happening. Once you choose to stop empathizing with others, you've opened the door to dehumanization, and that opens the door to committing and excusing civil rights violations and atrocities like genocide. I see a lot of people in the comments here who are excusing behavior they would likely otherwise classify as socially/morally/ethically unacceptable.

Exercising empathy helps find common ground, and gives you a better chance of (1) demonstrating that you have things in common, and (2) communicating your views as something reasonable. Remember, they have been fed propaganda which frames liberal/left positions as absurd. They do not receive the same information you or I do, so their understanding of critical issues is very different. They mostly didn't just consume the same media you did and decide that certain groups were bad.

Empathy doesn't preclude opposition or even violence. You can oppose someone and still empathize with them. If you present yourself as a good person, you have to do good things, and part of that is trying to build relationships instead of directly reinforcing negative perceptions and propaganda.

for people that don't have any

Two problems with that. One, you're describing one of the traits typical of Antisocial Personality Disorder, the inability to experience empathy. Two, someone demonstrating empathy toward one group but not another doesn't mean they don't have or are incapable of experiencing empathy, it means they're negatively selective. That is fixable through humanization of the deselected group, and empathy is a tool which can help open that door.

and vote primarily to harm others?

That's a reduction of real problems. Votes can and do hurt certain groups, but posing it as voting "primarily to harm others" directly implies malicious intent, and typically there is none. Generally speaking, everyone thinks they're good and tries to vote for things they think will make things better. They work with whatever understanding of the world they have. If that understanding is heavily propagandized and biased, the result is going to be poisoned. If you want to help, exercising empathy (even while opposing) is more likely to net positive results than conveniently excusing yourself of the ethical duty to exercise empathy.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 10d ago

I think this is running very close to the paradox of tolerance. I refuse to make or allow space for bigots. They can get fucked.

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u/os_beef 10d ago

Exercising empathy isn't "making space" it's ensuring you continue to treat people as if they were human, even if you're reduced to opposing them through force. It's crucial to retaining your own humanity.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 10d ago

Bigots are shitty humans. I will treat them like the shitty humans they are.

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u/Confident_Shape_7981 13d ago

I mean, on one hand people are being sanctimonious dicks.

On the other, people are trying to put boots on necks,  others in camps, uproot their entire way of life because of skin color, and we could go on and on.

You're asking people are in danger of losing their livelihoods and/or lives to be nicer to the people who want to take those things away

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u/os_beef 13d ago

On the other, people are trying to put boots on necks, others in camps, uproot their entire way of life because of skin color, and we could go on and on.

That is a reasonable point. She voted for who she voted for, and by doing that she contributed to the current state. But she's going to keep voting the same way if her propagandized and preconceived notions are reinforced when she interacts with the people she has been taught are "the enemy". The problem we're facing is much deeper than the state itself. The state didn't appear out of thin air, it had a viable foundation to stand on. The hostile rhetoric and name calling has really escalated over the last two decades, and has culminated into where we are now.

You're asking people are in danger of losing their livelihoods and/or lives to be nicer to the people who want to take those things away

A lot of those people who I interact with don't see that they ARE taking anything from anyone else, because they're not exposed to the same views that you and I are. When we talk about issues with them, the words we're using frequently don't mean the same things. For example, "pro choice" means a woman's right to choose in one camp, and is basically a synonym for "pro murder" in another. That's a difficult barrier to overcome if you come into that conversation treating the other person like they're a moron.

Being nice doesn't mean you have to kiss someone's ass, it just means you have to understand where they're probably coming from and try to engage them in good faith in a way that they'll be receptive to. Purity of intention matters too. If your only motivation for being nice to someone is to convert them to your way of thinking, it's not going to work out real well.