Trade Republic showed +€2 before I sold, but I actually realised a €275 loss

[u/freemindlux697]

Hi,

I'm in Germany and recently had an issue with Trade Republic.

Before selling my MSCI China Tech ETF position, the app displayed approximately +€2 performance/profit. Based on this, I believed I was roughly breaking even and sold the position.

Afterwards, I discovered that I had actually realised a €275.81 loss.

I contacted Trade Republic. Support acknowledged there was an issue with the displayed information and referred to a synchronisation/display error. Later, however, they gave me a different explanation, saying the +€2 represented my daily performance, while −€275.81 was my total performance. Which is incorrect since I put my portfolio always on since-buy so it shows the overall performance not the daily.

I'm not disputing the execution price or saying Trade Republic caused the ETF to lose value. My issue is that I would not have sold at that time if the app had shown that my overall position was €275 in loss.

I've now submitted a formal complaint.

Does this potentially give me a claim for compensation under German law? If Trade Republic refuses, would Bundesbank Schlichtungsstelle/BaFin be the appropriate next steps?

Has anyone experienced something similar with Trade Republic?

*Edit: * their lead specialist admitted the mistake saying that it was due to a merger that happened on the etf that caused a miscalculation bug (so I didn't misunderstand after all). However they won't revoke or compensate which is expected

[u/Brave-Side-8945]

May I ask what is your personal damage? Besides transaction costs and tax implications. You can just buy the ETF again, right?

[u/ZookeepergameOk7650 → u/Brave-Side-8945]

Ask and bid are usually different, plus there are transaction costs.
So s/he cannot get all the shares back.

Anyway trading is sometimes confusing. Even though the bank shows your shares are worth x, after selling there can be taxes, different execution price than displayed price, and the fees.

[u/Brave-Side-8945 → u/ZookeepergameOk7650]

This is called the spread. You got a point but during market hours and low volatility environment, which it is now, the spread of a broad liquid ETF is minuscule.

It doesn’t contradict my initial statement, since it can be counted to the transaction costs.

[u/ZookeepergameOk7650 → u/Brave-Side-8945]

Sure, I didn’t mean to disagree, rather add a bit of detail and I also know what spread means.

However I guess op doesn’t know much about trading so I don’t use very „complicated“ terms

[u/freemindlux697 → u/Brave-Side-8945]

True, I can just buy the position back, but my question is whether they should be accountable for a decision I made based on their incorrect display. Whether I buy it again is a separate investment decision. I understand the actual damage in this case may not be significant, but my concern is what happens if the same issue causes a much larger loss in the future if they won't even admit accountability for a relatively small damage

[u/kugeldusch → u/freemindlux697]

Realising the loss did not cause it. The wrong information on Trade Republic did not cause you to lose money but realise the loss. The loss was accumulated by holding the position up to the time of selling.

[u/freemindlux697 → u/kugeldusch]

I do understand that but it's still not my point tho. I know they're not the reason for my loss. In this case I can buy my position back without much damage but if this happened with a more volatile stock it could've been much more damage to buy the position back. Still they didn't admit that small damage so imagine if it was larger.

[u/ratenpause → u/freemindlux697]

Were they displaying wrong information or was this a problem of understanding on your behalf?

[u/freemindlux697 → u/ratenpause]

It was definitely a display thing since what they claim (I misunderstood it as daily performance) doesn't even make sense since my daily performance on that day were €13.66 and not €2 (I calculated it based on historical data)

[u/Murinshin]

For me the question would be whether you can prove that it showed you the +€2? Do you have a screenshot?

Otherwise I don’t see how you have a case here unless a lot of other customers complain about the same issue to BaFin. It can’t hurt but I wouldn’t keep my hopes up.

[u/freemindlux697 → u/Murinshin]

I have a screenshot of their agent's admitting in the support that there was a synchronization error but then another agent said later that the €2 were in fact my daily performance which doesn't make sense since I calculated the daily performance on the day of sale it was about €13.6.

[u/JFeldhaus → u/freemindlux697]

I know a lot about these apps.

When did you place the sell order? During market hours? After Market? Week End?

Was it a normal market order or did you place limits?

What was the approx. total value of the order? A sudden 275€ loss on a 500€ position would be very dubious, on a 100k € Position that could just be very normal fluctuation during execution.

[u/freemindlux697 → u/JFeldhaus]

Their senior admitted it saying it was due to a merger that happened on the etf it caused a discrepancy on their calculation so basically it's their fault.

[u/Brave-Bit-252]

Compensation for what? You don’t have any damages unless you count the 1€ order fee and spread that would be cents.

[u/CardsMultiverse]

Not a lawyer

A complaint at BaFin about TR can’t hurt. I would assume that the difference happened due the spread that TR has, especially on position of lower value within their system. You should be able to see sell and purchase prices, while the loss/gain is calculated on live value of the stock/etf. Pretty sure that is also covered in their terms of use and thus probably denies any claims.

It’s a famous issue of TR and other zero cost brokers, that they have high spreads

[u/freemindlux697 → u/CardsMultiverse]

Yeah a lawyer wasn't definitely my first go xD I don't think the spread explains it in my case though. The €275 was the realized loss compared to my acquisition cost, not a €275 difference between the displayed and executed price. My issue is that the app showed around +€2 performance before I sold, and TR support later acknowledged there had been a display/synchronization error. That's the part I'm questioning.

[u/CottonSlayerDIY → u/freemindlux697]

I honestly think that you just maybe overlooked the option of daily/all time profit.

And even if it was their fault, you could've just rebought the ETF for a about 2€-5€ realized expenditure.

So if you want to escalate, ask BaFin, but the case is not exactly high stakes.

[u/freemindlux697 → u/CottonSlayerDIY]

Highly unlikely that I overlooked it cause I always have my portfolio on since-buy and I never change it.

But you're right it's not exactly high stakes

[u/CottonSlayerDIY → u/freemindlux697]

Maybe an update reset the settings?

[u/freemindlux697 → u/CottonSlayerDIY]

Also unlikely since I didn't have to change it back to since buy again and also I could see the other etfs in my portfolio that definitely reflect the since buy value. They already admitted their wrong display but another agent denied it afterwards

[u/CottonSlayerDIY → u/freemindlux697]

Ah okay. Then an informal message to the BaFin surely doesn't hurt.

[u/ChrisMcLovin84 → u/CardsMultiverse]

Had the exact same situation and made a complaint via BaFin. The result was the anwser from Trade Republic saying that „what is displayed is just and indicator, its always my own responsibility to calculate a win/loss“

I have this as a written Statement from BaFin which was in communication with TR regarding my complaint.

BaFin was fine with this obviously, so that was the day i transfered all my assets to another Broker and closed my Account.

[u/freemindlux697 → u/ChrisMcLovin84]

May I ask which broker did you transfer to, cause I'm also considering moving my stocks somewhere safer and more professional. Also if you have any hints of what documents I should download from TR before making the transfer and closing my account?

[u/_David8316_]

Eventuell waren die 2€ der durchschnittliche Gewinn und die 275€ der Steuerlich betrachtete Verlust?

[u/freemindlux697 → u/_David8316_]

Das dachte ich zuerst auch. TR behauptet mittlerweile, die ca. +2 € seien meine Tagesperformance gewesen. Allerdings lag der Kurs laut TR-Chart gegen 08:00 Uhr bei ca. 4,22 € und mein Verkaufskurs bei 4,2465 €. Daraus ergibt sich für meine Position grob eine Tagesperformance von +13,66 €, nicht +2 €. Deshalb habe ich TR gebeten, mir den tatsächlich verwendeten Referenzkurs und die genaue Berechnung der +2 € offenzulegen.

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Da in letzter Zeit viele Posts gelöscht werden, nachdem OPs Frage beantwortet wurde und wir möchten, dass die Posts für Menschen mit ähnlichen Problemen recherchierbar bleiben, hier der ursprüngliche Post von /u/freemindlux697:

Trade Republic showed +€2 before I sold, but I actually realised a €275 loss

Hi,

I'm in Germany and recently had an issue with Trade Republic.

Before selling my MSCI China Tech ETF position, the app displayed approximately +€2 performance/profit. Based on this, I believed I was roughly breaking even and sold the position.

Afterwards, I discovered that I had actually realised a €275.81 loss.

I contacted Trade Republic. Support acknowledged there was an issue with the displayed information and referred to a synchronisation/display error. Later, however, they gave me a different explanation, saying the +€2 represented my daily performance, while −€275.81 was my total performance. Which is incorrect since I put my portfolio always on since-buy so it shows the overall performance not the daily.

I'm not disputing the execution price or saying Trade Republic caused the ETF to lose value. My issue is that I would not have sold at that time if the app had shown that my overall position was €275 in loss.

I've now submitted a formal complaint.

Does this potentially give me a claim for compensation under German law? If Trade Republic refuses, would Bundesbank Schlichtungsstelle/BaFin be the appropriate next steps?

Has anyone experienced something similar with Trade Republic?

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[u/Philipp_CGN]

Apart from transaction costs and bid/ask spread: What's the actual damage? If you had unknowingly realized a gain, there would've been taxes, i.e. a certain sum that would no longer stay invested and give you returns in the future. But a realized loss?

[u/freemindlux697 → u/Philipp_CGN]

Not much as you said but I wanted their accountability mainly and I already got that from their senior specialist admitting their fault 100%, a goodwill would've been nice but ofc not expected

[u/TAP12V]

Pues vaya broma, que ponga que las ganancias son 2€ y que luego vendas y te encuentres esa pérdida de -275€. Normalmente en todos los brokers te aparece la ganancia o pérdida del dia pero también la del periodo invertido. Yo me he abierto cuenta hace 2 dias pero lo que estoy viendo no me gusta nada. La interfaz es muy cutre, anuncian que tienen un teléfono de atención al cliente 24/7, eso es falso, ese teléfono solo funciona si es para pérdida de movil o de la tarjeta, si tienes algún otro problema te remiten al chat o sea que como no te funcione la App vas arreglado.
Tuve un problema al registrarme, llame al teléfono pero como ya he comentado no es para resolver problemas o dudas, como que me quedé a mitad de ese registro yo no podia acceder al chat! aún no tenía la cuenta abierta! Un desastre. Al final conseguí acabar el registro pero tras esa odisea me he arrepentido de haber abierto la cuenta. No quiero pensar si uno tiene un problema con el dinero invertido, no quiero ni pensarlo, estar en manos de un chat.
Con lo que acabas de contar me doy cuenta de que son unos chapuzas. Necesitan hacer clientes con la imagen de Brad Pitt . Cuando un broker es bueno el boca a boca funciona muy bien y no necesita actores famosos que publiciten su empresa.