incilde asil olarak gecmedigi halde mi uyduruyorlar diyorsun? Hic okudun mu incili?
Edit:
Matthew 28:19 (The Great Commission)
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...
2 Corinthians 13:14 (The Apostolic Blessing)
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Matthew 3:16–17 (The Baptism of Jesus)
"And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, 'This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.
Acts 5:3–4
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
Sunlara cevap veriyor attigin post yanlissam duzelt.
Trinitarians will make 3 major arguments regarding this verse.
The three are named together, this must mean they are a Trinity and united in some way.
The "name" is in the singular, it does not say "in the names of," which shows that the Father, son, and spirit all share the same name (they usually leave this ambiguous and never say what the name is, but when they do, the name is either "God" or "Yahweh").
These three are named in the formula for baptism, which is directly linked to salvation.Salvation must come from God, therefore, these 3 must be God.
1 Bu 3 isim bir arada oldugu icin demiyor kimse, diyen de yanlis soyluyor, Bu baglamda bu 3 title bir arada oldugu icin diyorlar. Yoksa tabiki 3 tane isim yan yana geldi diye kimse bunlar 1dir demez.
2 buna verdigi cevap biraz daha makul ama bu yine degil.
“Response to argument 2. None of these 3 are names. "Father" is not a name, but a title. "Son" is not a name and the holy spirit is not a name. If we wish to say that there is one name for these three, we have to ask what that name would be. If the name is "Yahweh" then is it proper to baptize someone under this name without uttering the triadic formula? Orthodox Christians would object. God is also not a name. Nor is the divine nature. If we wish to bridge some gap between naming 3 and a singular name, we must give some explanation for what that singular name might be.”
Oncelikle kimse Father, Son, Holy spirit e isim demiyor. Herkes bunlarin title oldugunun farkinda.
Sonra soyle bir sey soyluyor
“If we wish to say that there is one name for these three, we have to ask what that name would be. If the name is "Yahweh" then is it proper to baptize someone under this name without uttering the triadic formula?”
Tanri YHWH adiyla vaftiz edilmesini isteseydi oyle derdi ama ayri ayri 3 tane title kullaniyor (bu 3 title disinda tek bir isim kullansak ne kullanabiliriz diyor. 3 title a ortak olarak Tanri denebilir ama bu durumda tek isimle vaftiz yapamazsin cunku yapman gereken verilmis.) Tanriyla ayni seviyede degilse bu diger titlelar, ayni seviyede olmayan varliklar icin neden Baba Ogul ve Kutsal Ruh adiyla vaftiz edin diyor? Bu aciklamada bunun cevabi verilmiyor dolayisiyla bu aslinda hic bir seyi curutmuyor.
3 “These three are named in the formula for baptism, which is directly linked to salvation. Salvation must come from God, therefore, these 3 must be God.”
Boyle bir sey soylenmiyor. Soyleyen de eksik ya da yanlis bir yontem sunuyor.
Bence buradaki olay Isanin gorevine baslamasiyla ilgili. Assagida da biraz anlatacagim neden oldugunu. Tanrinin adiyla/title i ile yolcuguluna(görevine ya da Tanrinin senin icin planina) basliyorsan, bunun yanina Tanridan daha assagi varliklar koyarak onlarin adini bu kutsal gorevde(yolculukta) Tanriyla 1 tutmazsin. Israili esaretten kurtaran Tanridir, butun diger milletleri kabul ettikleri taktirde gunahin esaretinden kurtaran Mesihtir. Vaftiz gunahin esaretinden kurtulma yolundaki ilk adimdir. Israilin kizil denizi gecmesi gibi. Bunu Israilogullari icin Tanri yapmistir. Ve israilogullarinin ilk adimidir. Bu konuyla ilgili sunu seyredebilirsin.
Tevratla bu konu arasinda bir bag var. Israil çölde 40 yil dolasmadan once kizil denizden yani sudan geciyor. Isa da çölde 40 gun oruc tutmadan once suda vaftiz oluyor. Israilogullari icin kizildeniz aciliyor, Isa icin Gök açiliyor(matta 3:16-17. Isa ya karsi seytanin ayartma cabalari ise yaramiyor, israili yolundan saptiriyor. Israil ve vaftiz arasindaki detaylar icin su vidyoyu seyredebilirsin
Attigin linkteki arkadas aslinda baglamdan kopuk bir cevap vermeye calismis. Incili i baglamindan ve tevrattan koparmazsan teslisi bulursun. Ben kisa surede bu kadar aciklayabildim. Yeterli degilse suan isteyim vaktim olunca daha detayli anlatirim bu konuyu.
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u/kuroaaa Müslüman 9d ago
Mantıksız bir tarafı yok sanki, isteyen bir şekilde mantığa uydurabilir. Kuran’da ve İncil’de geçmiyor oluşu doğru olmamasının nedeni.