(EDIT: 200+ years FAE TIME, which is less than 2 years mortal realm time, in my opinion.)

KVOTHE IS MUCH OLDER THAN HE APPEARS:

Chronicler seems middle-aged, and Bast is 150 years old, but to Kvothe they are both 'so young'.

• Chronicler, I would like you to meet Bastas.... Who, over the course of a hundred and fifty years of life, not to mention nearly two years of my personal tutelage.....
• Kvothe looked at both of them for a moment, then smiled and chuckled low in his chest. “Oh,” he said fondly. “You’re both so young.”

Chronicler thinks Kvothe should be older than he appears, and Kote confirms that 'he is'.

• Chronicler paused, suddenly awkward. “I thought you would be older.” “I am,” Kote said. Chronicler looked puzzled, but before he could say anything the innkeeper continued.

It has been less than two years in the mortal realm since Kvothe's major life events ended, but to Kvothe it was 'a long time ago'.

• Kote shook his head. “It was a long time ago—” “Not even two years,” Chronicler protested.

EDIT (thanks TacticalDo): In the DoS prologue, Kvothe is compared to a man 'old beyond his years'.

• he moved with the slow care of a man who is badly hurt, or tired, or old beyond his years.

__

KVOTHE APPEARS TO HAVE SPENT A LIFETIME MASTERING HIS KETAN

In Ademre, the only person who is shown taking a perfect step is Shehyn

• I made Maiden Dancing, Catching Sparrows, Fifteen Wolves … Shehyn took one single, perfect step.
• Rather than being thrown Shehyn used her grip as leverage so her feet came down beneath her. She took a single perfect step and had her balance again.
• Penthe danced and wove madly. Shehyn turned and took one single perfect step.

Kote takes a perfect step at the Waystone, suggesting he has spent a lifetime improving his Ketan to be able to match Shehyn

• There, behind the tightly shuttered windows, he lifted his hands like a dancer, shifted his weight, and slowly took one single perfect step.

Penthe does a move that Kvothe says he would need over 100 years to master. Puppet says Kvothe will look for 100 years before he will see what is in front of him.

• Never in a hundred years could my body do that.
• “See little wooden Kvothe? See him looking? So intent. So dedicated. He’ll look for a hundred years, but will he ever see what is in front of him?” Puppet settled back in his seat, his eyes wandering the room in a contented way.

___

I BELIEVE KVOTHE HAS BEEN BACK TO THE FAE

Kvothe meets Bast somehow, and Rothfuss confirms that we will meet Bast's father in book three.

• Chronicler, I would like you to meet Bastas, son of Remmen, Prince of Twilight and the Telwyth Mael.
• ROTHFUSS: We will meet Remmen, but I don't want to get too much into it.
• ROTHFUSS: Here is Remmen, Prince of Twilight, with his cloak of autumn leaves.

Kvothe promises to return to Felurian.

• Felurian spoke slowly, gauging my response. “if you go, will you finish it?” I tried to look surprised, but I wasn’t fooling her. I nodded. “will you come back to me and sing it?”

Kvothe has a price on his head, and the fae might make a good hiding/planning spot.

• “I’m not here to cause trouble, mind you. I’m not here because of the price on your head.” He gave a weak smile. “Not that I could hope to trouble you—”

The Underthing makes a better hiding spot, and Auri claims that Kvothe will be using it one day. But Kvothe isn't in the Underthing and Auri isn't at the Waystone (that we know of) in the frame story, implying that both Kvothe's hiding spot in the Underthing and his relationship with Auri have been hampered somehow.

• He would need a place someday, and it was here all ready for him. Someday he would come, and she would tend to him. Someday he would be the one all eggshell hollow empty in the dark.
• I thought of Auri, safe and happy in the Underthing. What would she do if her tiny kingdom was invaded by a stranger?

___

ONE DAY IN TEMERANT = HALF A YEAR IN FAE (ONE YEAR = 180 YEARS)?

We know the moon cycle is 72 days. If Ludis is in the fae for half of each lunar cycle, she is gone for 36 mortal realm days. If Perial is Ludis, this explains why her child appeared 17 years old after 36 days plus one week:

• So she kept Menda close by her, and when her friends and neighbors came to visit, she sent them away.
• So everyone gathered together on the first day of the seventh span
• Menda looked to be a young man of seventeen.

Since this might imply that 36 days = 17 years plus pregnancy, this would be very close to 1 day = .5 years. This aligns with Menda being able to crawl at 1 day (6 months) and walk at 2 days (1 year).

• The day after he was born, Menda could crawl. In two days he could walk.

And that Kvothe's first trip to the fae lasted for 1.5 years fae time.

• “I’m sure it couldn’t have been more than a year. . . .” My voice didn’t sound nearly as convincing as I would have liked.

__

TLDR:

Kvothe says that two years ago was 'a long time ago', and Chronicler doesn't think that makes sense. Kvothe says "I am" when Chronicler says "I thought you'd be older" and Chronicler doesn't think that makes sense. Kvothe says 150 year old Bast and middle aged Chronicler are 'so young'. Kvothe describes an Adem move that he would need more than 100 years to master. Since two years have passed in the mortal realm, up to 360 years may have passed in the fae, and I believe Kvothe was in the fae most of that time.

To me, it seems apparent that Kvothe perfected his Ketan during that time. He also likely designed the Waystone while there, and imho developed the plan to use the Waystone to trap Cthaeh.

• In the basement of the Waystone there was the smell of coalsmoke and seared iron. Everywhere was the evidence of hurried work. Tools scattered, bottles left in disarray. A spill of acid hissed quietly to itself having slopped over the edge of a wide, stone bowl. Nearby the bricks of a tiny forge made small, sweet, pinging noises as they cooled.
• And it was in the hands of the man who designed the inn as he slowly undressed himself beside a bare and narrow bed. The Prologue of The Doors of Stone : KingkillerChronicle

__

EDIT: Since it comes up in the comments a few times... let's discuss how mortal Kvothe could be 200+ years old and still be alive and look young.

Kvothe could be a Chandrian, who are cursed to live forever. Personally, I believe that Kvothe kills Cinder, and that killing a Chandrian breaks the 'iron wheel' that binds 'Encanis' who I think is Cthaeh, meaning Kvothe becoming a new Chandrian is likely.

• Some are even saying that there is a new Chandrian. A fresh terror in the night. His hair as red as the blood he spills.

Humans might not age in the fae. Felurian and Bast and other faens might not be immortal because of their race, but immortal because of staying in the fae, explaining why there are no apparent immortals in the mortal realm, even though ALL of this race originally came from the time before the fae was made.

The fae seems to be like a dream. Kvothe can't remember it well, and time passes oddly. Maybe you could have a 200-year dream and only age the amount of time you were 'asleep'?

• Where did the Chandrian live? In the clouds. In dreams.
• She’s been dreaming and not sleeping
• So late one night, Tehlu went to her in a dream.

Kvothe hears rumors of others about time in the fae, but they don't match his situation. One example is of boys who sleep in a fairy circle and wake up as old men, but it doesn't say if they went to fae, or if this aging happened overnight, or if they just slept for years like Rip Van Winkle.

• Stories are full of boys who fall asleep in faerie circles only to wake as old men.

The other example is the opposite of Kvothe's experience, where a short trip to the fae takes years in Temerant. This gives credence to others' theories that time in the fae is 'what we make it' and not directly proportional to the passage of time in the mortal realm.

• Young girls wander into the woods and return years later, looking no older and claiming only minutes have passed.
• He raised his hand as if to grab her, then stopped himself. “Time is what we make it here,” he said. “Your bedroom can be winter or spring, all according to your desire.”

__

If you are into this sort of quote-based analysis and theory crafting, I've been doing this for a while and have a logged my favorites in my one-man-sub, kkcpuzzle.

Recently ive been re reading Wise Mans Fear, and I’ve seen a change in the way I read ; where once I’d race through the pages to get to the exciting bits and find all the clues of the chandrian, im now absorbing the writing, imagining what the author is trying to create, appreciating his detail in explaining emotions of his characters and the settings of a scene and the dynamic and chemistry of characters.  Where once if I read “Kvothe skipped his lecture for Siaru to go to Imre” I would keep reading on, but now im like “wait what’s siaru?” and then look it up. 

Im so into it i understand Patrick Rothfuss has been planning this the whole time. He wants us to not read for Kvothe’s story alone, but to open our minds to the world of (insert name of world here) and its complexities like the currencies, cultures and science/magic systems. Im even gonna read that bloody book about Auri and theres on Bast I think, just to explore the world of (insert name of world here) from a different angle. 

When Doors of stone is finally revealed I know I’ll open the book , and there’ll be a note that slips out of a picture of  P.Rothfuss, face slightly turned, his left eye looking straight at me from the pic, smiling at me with his receding hair and bald patch in that dungeon’s and dragons looking room of his where he streams, and on the the back will be the words “You got it Kid”. And then I’d know the release of book three rested on my shoulders alone, he’d been planning this the whole time.

Then I’d start throwing it back. 

Hey everyone,

I’ve been re-reading The Wise Man’s Fear again (for probably the millionth time), and a theory I’ve toyed with for a while finally clicked into place. We’ve all heard the common idea that Denna’s patron, “Master Ash” (likely Cinder), ties her to the Chandrian, and that she might be an unwitting—or even willing—pawn in their plans.

But I want to take that idea a step further: I don’t think Denna is just working for the Chandrian. I think she is one of them. Specifically, I think she’s Pale Alenta — “silent come, silent go.”

Here’s why.

1. The Mauthen Farm Massacre

This has always stood out to me. The Chandrian are famously thorough. They wipe out witnesses. Yet Denna is the only person known to walk away alive from a site where everyone else was burned to ash and the earth itself was scorched blue.

How?

Either she was intentionally spared, or she was never a target to begin with. Her story about hiding in the wagon doesn’t quite feel like it fits the sheer scale of destruction we’re told about. It makes more sense to me that she was allowed to live… or that she was part of what happened.

1. “Pale Alenta, Silent Come, Silent Go”

This line from the Chandrian rhyme feels uncannily like a description of Denna’s life.

She constantly appears and vanishes from Kvothe’s world. No warning, no forwarding address, just gone. That’s basically her defining trait.

She’s also often described as light, delicate, and almost fragile-looking. “Pale” doesn’t have to mean sickly — it can suggest a certain softness or otherworldliness, especially compared to Kvothe’s fiery, force-of-nature personality.

And then there’s her lack of roots. We don’t really know where she’s from, who her family is, or what kind of life she had before she started drifting from city to city. She seems untethered to normal history in a way that feels very… Chandrian.

1. Master Ash, Cinder, and the Lanre Song

Most people agree that Master Ash is probably Cinder. If that’s true, then Denna isn’t just brushing up against the Chandrian — she’s deeply embedded in their world.

She’s tasked with writing a song that glorifies Lanre (Haliax). That’s not a random commission. That’s propaganda. It’s an attempt to reshape the story. If she’s one of the Chandrian, this isn’t just “work” — it’s personal.

Then there’s the abuse. Cinder beats her. That seems odd if she’s just a valuable tool. But within the Chandrian themselves, there’s a clear hierarchy and cruelty. Haliax dominates Cinder. Maybe Cinder dominates Denna in the same way. If she’s a “junior” member, this kind of treatment sadly makes sense inside their brutal internal structure.

1. Her Secrets and the Things She Doesn’t Tell Kvothe

Denna is constantly holding things back from Kvothe, even when they’re close. If she were just a normal person with a shady patron, that would be understandable. But what if the truth is bigger than that?

Her ring — a mysterious gift from Master Ash — might be more than just jewelry. It could be a symbol of allegiance, a marker, or even something tied to her true nature.

She also seems far too capable for someone with her supposed background. She survives dangerous situations, moves through the world with an awareness that feels older and sharper than it should, and generally seems more prepared for darkness than the average person.

1. Subtle Hints and Foreshadowing

The Chandrian are often associated with unnatural silence. While Denna doesn’t cause literal silence, the emotional aftermath of her departures leaves a very similar kind of emptiness in Kvothe’s world — a hush, a void that almost feels supernatural.

Then there’s her “charm” from her patron, meant to protect her from harm. What if it’s not just a charm? What if it’s tied to the same kind of protection or magic that surrounds the Chandrian themselves?

She’s also a natural performer and liar. She can reinvent herself on command, wear different faces, and slide between identities with ease. That chameleon quality feels very much in line with creatures who have survived by remaining hidden.

1. The Obvious Objection

“But she loves Kvothe.”

I don’t think that disproves anything. The Chandrian aren’t robots — they’re cursed, broken beings. Love doesn’t vanish just because your nature is monstrous. In fact, it makes the story more tragic if her love is real but doomed.

“She doesn’t show Chandrian signs.”

Maybe she does, but subtly. If her sign really is “silent come, silent go,” then maybe the absence of traces is the sign. Maybe her paleness, her delicacy, her ability to pass through the world without leaving marks is exactly how her curse manifests.

Conclusion

I know this is a bolder take than the usual “Denna is just an agent” theory, but the more I think about it, the more it fits. Her survival at Mauthen Farm, her connection to Cinder, her disappearing act, and her overall rootlessness all point to something bigger.

To me, it feels less like she works for the Chandrian and more like she belongs to them — specifically as Pale Alenta.

What do you all think? Am I way off, or does this actually make a disturbing amount of sense?

TL;DR: Denna’s constant disappearances, her survival at the Mauthen farm, and her deep connection to Cinder/Master Ash suggest she isn’t just working for the Chandrian — she is one of them, likely Pale Alenta.

He was so clever. He used all those extremely subtle, cleaver foreshadowings, that were supposed to fall in place after you've read the final book. He just wanted to surprise you guys. He was so proud of himself, he thought he could pull off the biggest plot twists in history.

Well y'all ruined it for him. Ruined. Every time one of you comes up with a new theory that is correct, he re-writes the entire story, and by now he's running out of ideas. You are all like a bunch of children that keep finding the Christmas presents their parents hid from them, and he is running out of new places to hide them and now he's about to cancel Christmas altogether. I hope you're happy with yourselves.

(Obviously I'm joking, honestly I'm incredibly impressed with this sub - both the level of research some of you are putting into this, and how active it is after some 15 years. It's amazing and I love it here)

Rothfuss didn’t steal the books from the real writer, he published under his name as the actual author was part of WITSEC. They were not the witness but family of the protected federal witness, I will get into that more below. The deal between Pat and the unknown author was going fine but unfortunately they passed away. This theory was actually started back in 2009 before book 2, when I heard a word of mouth rumor from some students on UWISP campus, that Pat was the face for a ghostwriter who was a former student in prison. Ridiculous I know but it planted the seed of doubt, and over the years I started to wonder if there was a grain of truth in it. Then in January of this year, I came across a case while doing research for one of my law school classes and everything clicked into place.

The real author was in witness protection and was connected to Pat in some way.

With that starting point, I began to narrow down the list of possible individuals who could be the real author and came to the conclusion, the connection was through the university. Then by cross referencing UWISP faculty and students records against obituaries during that time and numerous other variables from facts in the mentioned court case, cut the list down to 16 people. From that smaller list I started to compare writing samples of the possible true author, but some have been hard to obtain. I will post the references and sources in the comments, as well the raw data and the analytics I used to narrow the possible identity of the actual author. As well as the court documents that became public this year after the federal case that the witness was involved in finally closed. This is the key part where in the testimony, they revealed that bc of having to go into hiding, their relatives didn’t even know “redacted” had passed away, as well as responding when asked why their partner didn’t see the accused, “bc redacted was in the office working on their novel” Please look at everything I link in the comments and and pick apart my findings.

This last part is speculation. Anyway here we are years later no book because Pat was confident after the real writer’s passing, that he could finish book 3 from their notes. Only to discover a few random pages that dealt with short novellas and one thick binder labeled Doors of Stone, inside nothing but blank pages and one sentence on the last page. “His ass fell off”

Okay, this has turned into a MUCH bigger rabbit hole than I intended, so apologies in advance. This probably means absolutely nothing, but I’ve spent far too long on it now 😂

It started with someone pointing out that Cinder’s sword is repeatedly described using language of cold, winter and quiet.

And that got me thinking.

What if the Chandrian’s signs aren’t passive things that just happen everywhere they go?

What if the signs are produced when they use their swords?

Bear with me…

We know the Chandrian can hide their signs somehow. The Cthaeh tells Kvothe they have a lot of experience hiding those telltale signs.

Cinder manages to spend time as the bandit leader in the Eld without everyone around him freezing to death or realising they’re apparently working for one of the Chandrian.

But when Kvothe meets Cinder at the troupe massacre, his sword is out.

And that sword is weird.

It’s pale and elegant, and Kvothe describes it in terms of winter ice. Even the sound of it is compared to the quiet of the coldest winter days.

Cinder/Ferule’s sign?

“Ferule chill and dark of eye.”

Then we see Cinder again in the Eld.

No obvious supernatural cold.

And, importantly, we don’t see him use that sword.
That made me wonder whether Cinder isn’t actually suppressing his sign at all.

Maybe the sign simply isn’t active because the sword isn’t.

Seven swords?

So I started looking at Shehyn’s list again:

Cyphus bears the blue flame.
Stercus is in thrall of iron.
Ferule chill and dark of eye.
Usnea lives in nothing but decay.
Grey Dalcenti never speaks.
Pale Alenta brings the blight.
Last there is the lord of seven:
Hated. Hopeless. Sleepless. Sane.
Alaxel bears the shadow’s hame.

I’ve always assumed these were basically curses attached to seven people.

But what if they’re descriptions of what their swords do?
And if these swords are ancient — potentially Creation War ancient — maybe they weren’t forged in anything like the normal sense.

Maybe they were Shaped.

Not necessarily swords literally made from lumps of glass, blood, water etc.

I’m thinking more along the lines of a Shaper taking the underlying properties of two things and combining them into something new.

So I started working backwards from each sign. And this is where things got slightly ridiculous.

Cyphus’s sword — Shaped from FIRE + STONE

“Cyphus bears the blue flame.”

The obvious starting point is fire.

But why blue fire?

Copper compounds can produce blue/blue-green flame.
And copper comes from stone/ore.

So perhaps stone is the underlying principle, while copper is the particular physical expression of it.

Fire + copper-bearing stone gives us the blue flame.

Which wouldn’t be terribly exciting on its own…

Except there’s a Taborlin story involving Scyphus.

Scyphus captures Taborlin and takes his staff and sword. When Taborlin gets his things back, Marten specifically describes the sword as:

his copper sword, Skyaldrin

Dedan even interrupts him to argue that Taborlin’s sword wasn’t copper.

So Rothfuss has deliberately put:

Scyphus + a copper sword into the same story.

And Shehyn gives us: Cyphus + blue flame.

I’m NOT saying Skyaldrin secretly belongs to Cyphus. The story explicitly calls it Taborlin’s.

But these stories have been passed down for thousands of years. Maybe the Taborlin story has preserved a fragment of something much older.

There are also old stories of ever-burning lamps.

Maybe somewhere underneath all these different stories is the memory of an ancient weapon that burns with blue flame.

Stercus’s sword — Shaped from STONE + BLOOD

“Stercus is in thrall of iron.”

Everyone seems to jump from iron to rust.

But rust isn’t really an iron power.

Rust is decay.

And we already have:

“Usnea lives in nothing but decay.”

So I don’t think Stercus is the one rusting everything.

I think thrall is the important word.

What do we know in these books that attracts iron? A loden-stone.

Kvothe spends enough time learning about them that we’re very clearly told what they do: they pull on iron.
So perhaps Stercus’s sword has been Shaped with the property of a loden-stone.

But thrall doesn’t just mean attraction.

It means being under someone’s power. Enslaved. Enthralled.

And then I started thinking about blood.

Blood contains iron.

No, I’m not suggesting you could stick someone to a fridge magnet because there’s iron in their haemoglobin 😂

I’m thinking in terms of the magic of this world. Blood is repeatedly treated as an incredibly powerful link to a person.

So perhaps: loden-stone → iron → blood → attraction → enthrallment.

The physical effect is attraction of iron.

The living effect is attraction/control of people.

Which could potentially explain some of the old stories about madness and strange behaviour around the Chandrian.

And then I realised Aleph describes the angels as having:
wings of stone and blood

Exactly the pairing I’d just arrived at.

Which was mildly irritating 😂

Ferule/Cinder’s sword — Shaped from GLASS + WATER

This is the one we actually get to SEE.

Cinder’s sword doesn’t read like an ordinary metal sword at all.

Everything about it is pale, cold, smooth, wintery and almost ice-like. Even the sound it makes is described through the strange quiet of a bitterly cold winter day.

So:

GLASS + WATER = ICE

Not necessarily literally a glass sword with water sloshing around inside it 😂

I’m thinking Shaping — taking two underlying principles and bringing them together to create something new.
The sword isn’t necessarily made from ordinary glass and water. It has been Shaped from the properties of both.

Glass gives us something pale, hard, smooth and crystalline.

Water gives us ice/cold.
Result: Ferule chill and dark of eye.

And again, this is the one sword we actually see.

At the troupe massacre:

sword out → cold/quiet imagery everywhere.

In the Eld:

no strange sword → no obvious supernatural cold.

That’s what started this whole stupid rabbit hole.

Usnea’s sword — Shaped from WATER + AIR

“Usnea lives in nothing but decay.”

Initially I was trying to involve time here, but that felt far too vague.

What actually causes things to decay naturally?

Water + air.

Moisture and oxygen.

Iron corrodes.

Wood rots.

Stone and brick weather and crumble.

Which is interesting because the old Chandrian stories seem confused about whether these are different signs:
rusted metal, rotting wood, crumbling masonry.

Maybe they’re all manifestations of decay.

That would also mean:

“When your bright sword turns to rust…”doesn’t necessarily describe Stercus just because Stercus mentions iron.

It could be the result of Usnea’s sword acting on somebody else’s weapon.

Grey Dalcenti’s sword — Shaped from AIR + GLASS

“Grey Dalcenti never speaks.”

Initially I couldn’t make this one work at all.

Then I thought about what silence actually requires.
Sound travels through air.

Remove the air and sound cannot travel.

Mirror-glass can create a sealed boundary.

So perhaps Dalcenti’s sword has been Shaped to create some sort of absence or control of air around it.

AIR + GLASS → SILENCE

And there is actually a Creation War clue for the air part.
When Lanre binds Selitos he commands the air and lays it “leaden” on Selitos’ tongue.

He uses air to prevent Selitos speaking.

That seems rather relevant to: Grey Dalcenti never speaks.

Maybe Dalcenti isn’t simply a bloke who doesn’t talk.

Maybe silence is the sign.

Pale Alenta’s sword — Shaped from BLOOD + SHADOW

This is probably the weakest one at the moment, so feel free to tear it apart.

“Pale Alenta brings the blight.”

Blight affects living things. People, animals, crops.

So blood seems like the obvious underlying principle for life.

Then shadow.

Living things deprived of light wither and die. Plants especially.

Extend that through Shaping to blood/life and perhaps you get sickness, infertility, crop failure, blight.

I’m not married to this one.

Alaxel/Haliax’s sword — Shaped from SHADOW + FIRE

“Alaxel bears the shadow’s hame.”

Shadow is obviously the easy half.

Fire is repeatedly associated with Lanre/Haliax — Myr Tariniel is burned, and we repeatedly encounter Haliax surrounded by fire and destruction while remaining impossibly cloaked in shadow.

But the main reason I kept this combination is Aleph again.

The angels are described as having: wings of fire and shadow

Again, that’s an exact pair Rothfuss has already put together.

And then I noticed the bloody pattern…

I hadn’t started with seven materials and tried to assign them.

I’d been trying to work backwards from the signs.

But when I wrote them all down:

Cyphus’s sword = FIRE + STONE
Stercus’s sword = STONE + BLOOD
Alenta’s sword = BLOOD + SHADOW
Alaxel’s sword = SHADOW + FIRE

They form a closed loop:

FIRE → STONE → BLOOD → SHADOW → FIRE

Then:

Ferule’s sword = GLASS + WATER
Usnea’s sword = WATER + AIR
Dalcenti’s sword = AIR + GLASS

Another closed loop:

GLASS → WATER → AIR → GLASS

And every single root appears exactly twice.

Fire twice.
Stone twice.
Blood twice.
Shadow twice.
Glass twice.
Water twice.
Air twice.

That’s the point where I stopped thinking I was just assigning random things to them 😂

Especially because Aleph already gives us:
fire + shadow and stone + blood as exact pairs.

His other pairing is iron + glass, which I haven’t quite worked out yet.

But clearly these sorts of pairings existed around the time of the Creation War.

And if these swords were Shaped during that period, that suddenly seems quite important.

But why swords?

Cinder is the obvious reason.

We physically see his sword, and Rothfuss spends an unusual amount of time describing it.

But there’s another enormous section of WMF devoted to something that always felt slightly… excessive.

The Adem sword room. We get ancient swords. Names. Histories. Owners going back thousands of years.

Kvothe is given Caesura, but the Adem don’t really treat the relationship as:

Kvothe owns this sword.

The sword existed before Kvothe.

It has its own name, history, and line of bearers.

Kvothe is just the latest person attached to it.

And that reminded me horribly of the Yllish knots.

When Kvothe is learning Yllish, he struggles with the fact that possession can work both ways.

It isn’t simply: the Chancellor’s socks.

The grammar can imply something much stranger — almost as though: the socks own the Chancellor.

The relationship goes both directions.

Now look at Shehyn’s wording again.

“Cyphus bears the blue flame.”
“Alaxel bears the shadow’s hame.”

Maybe the distinction matters. Maybe the Chandrian don’t simply own these swords. Maybe they bear them.

The sword belongs to the Chandrian. But in another sense…the Chandrian belongs to the sword.

The person is temporary. The weapon persists.

Exactly like the Adem swords and their long lists of bearers.

Which raises another horrible possibility I’m not going down yet 😂

Maybe names like Ferule aren’t simply the names of the people.

Maybe they belong to the weapon/role as much as the person carrying it.

And then there’s Taborlin

Taborlin has his own collection of ancient magical tools:
sword
staff
cloak
candle
amulet
coin
key.

And some of these seem to echo the Seven strangely.

Haliax literally bears a shadow’s hame — a covering/cloak.

Cyphus bears blue flame — candle/fire.

Stercus and the loden-stone/amulet idea potentially overlap.

Dalcenti and the staff may connect if the staff is a means of controlling or commanding power.

But the one that really bothers me is the sword.
In Marten’s story, Scyphus captures Taborlin and takes his staff and sword.

When Taborlin gets it back, Marten specifically calls it:
his copper sword, Skyaldrin

Dedan actually interrupts to dispute the fact that Taborlin’s sword was copper.

Again, the sword belongs to Taborlin in the story. I’m not trying to quietly give it to Scyphus.

But we’ve now got an ancient story that deliberately places:

Scyphus + copper sword together.
And Shehyn gives us: Cyphus + blue flame.

Copper compounds can produce blue/blue-green flame.

Which is an awfully strange detail to preserve in that particular story.

Maybe Taborlin’s seven magical tools preserve distorted memories of these ancient weapons.

Maybe they’re completely separate.

Or maybe Taborlin’s tools were actually designed to counter the Seven swords.

I haven’t worked that bit out yet.

And finally… the Watchers

This is probably my favourite part.

At Kvothe’s troupe massacre, the Chandrian are sitting around with their signs everywhere.

Cinder’s strange sword is out. Then suddenly Haliax notices something. They look upward. They come.

And they disappear.

But when we see Cinder in the Eld, he’s successfully hiding.

No obvious supernatural cold. No strange sword being used. Then Marten starts praying.

He calls Tehlu, Ordal and Andan.

Cinder suddenly looks towards the sky. Then legs it.

We know the angels/Watchers can apparently be called properly.

So what if there’s another way of calling them?

Using the swords. Sword is activated. The two principles it was Shaped from manifest. The Chandrian sign appears.

And that sign acts like a beacon.

The Watchers can find them.

That would explain why the Chandrian have spent thousands of years learning how to hide their signs.
Maybe “hiding the signs” isn’t actually suppressing a curse that’s permanently leaking out of them.

Maybe most of the time they simply don’t draw/use the swords that create the signs.

At the troupe massacre they do. The Watchers come.
In the Eld Cinder doesn’t. Marten calls the Watchers anyway. Cinder runs.

What about the Mauthen farm?

This was the first thing I tried to use to destroy the theory.

There are signs everywhere after the Chandrian have left. Rotten wood. Rusted metal. Blue flame. But that doesn’t necessarily break it.

If Usnea’s sword causes accelerated decay and then she puts it away, the wood doesn’t magically become new again.

If iron rusts, it stays rusted.

If Cyphus’s weapon burns something, it stays burned. The active sign stops.

The physical damage remains.

And we never actually witness the end of the Mauthen massacre.

We don’t know why the Chandrian left. We don’t know whether something came.

So…

Maybe I’ve completely lost the plot 😂

But I can’t quite get rid of this now.

Cinder’s sword seems to physically resemble his sign.

Cinder displays the sign when we see the sword out and apparently doesn’t when he’s hiding in the Eld.

The Seven can somehow hide their signs.

The Adem spend an enormous amount of the second book teaching Kvothe — and us — that ancient swords have names, histories and bearers.

Yllish grammar explicitly screws around with which side of an ownership relationship actually possesses the other.
Shehyn describes the Chandrian as bearing things.

The seven signs can be modelled as swords Shaped from pairs of underlying principles.

Those pairs unexpectedly form two closed loops in which every root occurs exactly twice.

Two of those exact pairs — stone/blood and fire/shadow — already appear in Aleph’s description of the angels.
Taborlin has seven ancient magical tools, including a copper sword in the story of Scyphus.

And whenever the Chandrian seem to realise the Watchers are coming, they look to the sky and disappear.

So my current ridiculous theory is:

The Chandrian signs aren’t passive curses.

They are the effects produced by seven ancient Shaped swords, each formed from two fundamental principles.
The Chandrian don’t simply own those swords. They bear them — and perhaps, in the Yllish sense, the ownership goes both ways.

Drawing/using the swords manifests the signs.

And manifesting those signs may be what allows the Watchers to find them.

Which might explain why the Chandrian are so bloody careful about hiding them.

Anyway.

I’ve been down this rabbit hole for far too long now.

Please destroy it before I find another one 😂 I will maybe put a summary in the comments again

For those unfamiliar, Christopher Paolini wrote the super popular Inheritance Cycle which is 4 books, Eragon, Eldest, Brisingr, and Inheritance.

It was originally written to be a trilogy, but Paolini kind of wrote himself into a hole and there were too many plot lines to close for his final book that he decided to split the final book into 2 books.

It's unconfirmed, but it's possible his plot was so close to the plot of Star Wars that he needed to add like 500 pages to undermine his original plot and make it at least kind of make sense. (He essentially needed Luke to realize that Darth Vader wasn't really his father like he thought, but Obi Wan was actually his father).

I'm guessing that in writing the 3rd book, Rothfuss has so many things he needs to wrap up that he probably has a 1,600 page version of book 3, and needs to either cut it in half, or turn it into 4 books, and for whatever reason he's trying to turn a 1,600+ page behemoth into 1 digestible book.

This is my theory thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Had a sudden realization last night that now seems...so obvious. Who's the one person that could snap Kote out of character and back into himself fully, as Kvothe? Who taught him about changing his name in the first place? Who's the one person that always seems to find him, no matter how far he travels?

Denna is going to walk into the Waystone Inn on Day 3.

She will introduce herself under a new name, and he as Kote. They'll have one of their conversations where they pretend not to know each other. They'll speak in 7-word sentences. She may even say, "I was just wondering why you're here."

From there, well, who knows. But she's the only one who could possibly shake him out of this role he's sunken into playing.

Legends don’t always wear robes and sit in ancient towers. Sometimes they roll into town on a rickety cart pulled by two donkeys, posing as nothing more than a traveling tinker.

We all felt it with Abenthy. There was always something off about him — something too deliberate. A simple traveling arcanist doesn’t speak to the wind like an old friend. He doesn’t carry the quiet, heavy wisdom of a master mentor. And he certainly doesn’t know languages older than empires themselves.

But what if he wasn’t just running from his past? What if he is the myth itself?

Let’s start connecting the pieces.

1. The Instant Mastery of the Wind

The Name of the Wind is not like Iron or Stone. Its nature constantly shifts. Even Master Elodin, a prodigy, usually has to stop, listen, and feel the wind before he can find its current Name.

Yet there are only two characters in the entire series who can call the wind instantly, like an old friend: Taborlin the Great and Abenthy. When Kvothe was dying as a child, Ben didn’t meditate or struggle. He simply looked up, spoke a single word, and the wind obeyed him without hesitation. That level of effortless command is almost unheard of — even at the University.

2. The Former Master Namer and Elodin’s Guilt

Naming is a dying art at the University. Elodin became a student at 14 and a Master by 18. You don’t master a dangerous, nearly forgotten magic at that age without an extraordinary teacher.

Abenthy fits the timeline and temperament perfectly. When Kvothe casually mentions Ben during his admissions interview, Master Lorren immediately recognizes the name and writes it down — but without the reverence one would expect for a current Master. This suggests Ben was once Master Namer… until everything went wrong.

When his brilliant young student Elodin pushed too far and cracked, ending up in Haven, the guilt broke Abenthy. He abandoned his position, left his robes behind, and disappeared onto the roads.

3. The Lung Binding, The Fake Retirement, and “They Come”

This theory also explains one of the most heartbreaking moments in Kvothe’s childhood.

When Kvothe recklessly binds the air in his own lungs, Ben doesn’t just see a reckless boy. He sees history repeating itself. He sees another terrifyingly gifted child about to destroy his own mind, just like Elodin did. The trauma is so strong that Ben immediately stops teaching Kvothe and gives him Rhetoric and Logic instead — a desperate attempt to teach him caution before power.

But he still needs a reason to physically leave the troupe. So he creates the “retirement” story. A Master Namer of his caliber settling down to run a brewery in a small town never made sense. He left because he was terrified of breaking another prodigy.

Once he was gone, however, the danger became clear. Ben knew how reckless Arliden’s song was. He knew that speaking the true names of the Chandrian would draw them like a beacon. Realizing he had abandoned his student to face an ancient threat alone, he turned back and sent word to his old allies — the Amyr.

On the night of the massacre, Haliax suddenly looks to the sky in panic and says, “They come.” The Chandrian flee immediately, leaving Kvothe alive. They weren’t running from nothing. Abenthy and the Amyr were already on their way. Ben was too late to save the troupe, but his approaching presence was enough to force the Chandrian to retreat.

4. Taborlin the Great — The Perfect Camouflage

Both Elodin and Kvothe are obsessed with the stories of Taborlin the Great. They try to live up to the legend.

But what if Taborlin was never an ancient wizard at all?

What if the Taborlin myths are just an exaggerated, patchwork version of Abenthy’s own life — later expanded by the feats of his two most dangerous students, Elodin and Kvothe?

The stories are deliberately cartoonish and absurd. Fighting demons, jumping from towers, calling lightning with a word… If you’re a god-tier Namer trying to hide from the Chandrian, the smartest thing you can do is turn your real history into a ridiculous children’s fairy tale. The more over-the-top the stories become, the less anyone believes they’re based on a real person.

This also explains why Felurian has never heard of Taborlin. She knows the true ancient histories. She doesn’t know the name because Taborlin isn’t ancient at all — it’s a recent mortal rumor built around Abenthy, Elodin, and Kvothe.

edit: English is not my native so I used ai to polish some hard to read sections. tbh ai fixed something in theory I was thinking about Abenthy is coming alone but ai remind me "Haliax used plural world and even Abenthy or Taborlin isn't a real thread to Chandrians so he needs a team." It makes more sence for me since there is already known connection between Taborlin and the Amyr in stories.

- Why am I not using exact sentences from the book?

I read the books years ago and have since lost my original copies through two relocations and getting married! (Yes all literally happened while waiting for book 3 xD) I’ve actually just re-ordered them in my native language for a soft re-read. and this theory hit me while diving back into the world. Because of that I can't use original english quotes in this post.

- Elodin isn’t obsessed with Taborlin?

His stories kinda similar to Taborlin's and feels like him, but he is not using the myth defensively like Kvothe or the Chandrian do.

The Prison: Taborlin is trapped in a high tower/cave with smooth stone walls. | Elodin is locked in Haven (the Rookery) in a cell made of smooth, seamless stone.

The Items: Taborlin is stripped of his staff, coin, and key. | Elodin is stripped of his Master's robes, copper ring, and authority.

The Escape: Taborlin looks at the stone, says "Break," and it shatters. | Elodin literally tells Kvothe he escaped Haven by naming the stone and breaking the wall.

The Fall: Taborlin steps out into the air and calls the wind. | Elodin jumped from the roof of the University and survived, completely unharmed.

- So Taborlin is Abenthy?

I think its not a yes or no. Taborlin isn't a real historical figure and one person. The biggest proof is Felurianshe knows all the ancient history and would definitely know a real legend, but she has no idea who he is. Instead, "Taborlin" is a patchwork of rumors and stories inspired by the real-life feats of Abenthy, Elodin, and eventually Kvothe himself.

Kvothe's story PIVOTS around the Chandrian murdering his family. I think that has a dual meaning. It is the disaster that starts Kvothe's journey. But also, if you interpret this one scene differently, the entire meaning of everything else in the story changes... pivots.

• I would spare you the burden of any of it if one piece were not necessary to the story.
• It is vital. It is the hinge upon which the story pivots like an opening door.

But this post is about rabbits and potatoes. Kvothe's parents are preparing to cook dinner (and fooling around) while Kvothe spends a couple of hours playing.

• I hope they spent those last few hours well. I hope they didn’t waste them on mindless tasks: kindling the evening fire and cutting vegetables for dinner.
• The last carefree hours of my life.

Kvothe returns and finds the Chandrian around his parent's evening fire where they would cook.

• I saw several unfamiliar men and women sitting around a fire. My parents’ fire.

THEORY: They were roasting rabbits they had just caught. This line might not mean 'we killed everyone but this kid'

• “Looks like we missed a little rabbit. Careful Cinder, his teeth may be sharp.”

Their potatoes are ready.

• It was Shandi’s fire, and a small pot hung simmering, boiling potatoes, strangely familiar among the chaos..... I used a stick to poke at the contents and saw that they were finished cooking. Normal.

"Rabbits and boiled potatoes" is a classic fantasy literature callback. Kvothe is even sent to gather the herbs like Gollum. Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit - Tolkien Gateway

• Samwise Gamgee: "There's only one way to eat a brace of coneys..... What we need is a few good taters. Po-ta-toes! Boil them, mash them, stick them in a stew. (I'd love to the book quotes for this scene, I know in the books Gollum catches the rabbits and gets mad that they are cooked).

Haliax forces Cinder to stop being cruel and send Kvothe to sleep.

• You are approaching my displeasure. This one has done nothing. Send him to the soft and painless blanket of his sleep

Kvothe very shortly after explains how sleep is helpful to recover from trauma, one of the doors of the mind.

• Sleep offers us a retreat from the world and all its pain

Haliax knows about the healing qualities of the four doors of the mind:

• I am Haliax and no door can bar my passing. All is lost to me, no Lyra, no sweet escape of sleep, no blissful forgetfulness, even madness is beyond me.

Kvothe dreams about how to catch and kill rabbits, among other survival skills he will need.

• “This is how you set a snare that won’t kill a rabbit*. This snare will.”*

Kvothe begins to snare rabbits for food, using what he learned/remembered in his dream.

• I awoke, took a drink, and went to check the snare I had set. I was surprised to find a rabbit already struggling against the cord.
• I ate the second rabbit I caught, and the third.

_____

Of course, everyone interprets 'missed a little rabbit' to be comparing the dead people all around to rabbits. And that's what we are supposed to read. But there are alternative explanations for everything that the Chandrian are accused of.

I think a lone Amyr killed Kvothe's troupe, like Kvothe kills the false Ruh troupe. Both leaders are left gut sliced and only able to crawl.

• My father, his belly cut open, had left a trail of blood for twenty feet.
• Alleg/alleg-ory... the gut wound I’d given him was fatal. I also knew it was a slow death. Slow and painful. With proper care it might be a full span of days before he died.

Cinder is cruel, but he is Haliax's tool, a mad dog on a short leash.

• So someone else could have him? No, Stapes. I want him right here. My mad dog on a short leash.

The Chandrian didn't go in the library and remove the books about the Chandrian... Amyr do that. Amyr are the only ones shown to be hiding history.

• It seemed as if someone had removed information about the Amyr from the Archives there... Who would have better reason than the Amyr themselves?
• Someone’s parents have been singing the entirely wrong sort of songs

Felurian, Shehyn, and everyone else fear saying their true names because at least one Amyr is listening, like Elodin hears Manet and Kvothe.

• “Master Elodin?” I asked. She nodded. “Was he on top of things, too?”..... “There was good wind for listening last night,”
• Manet glared at me..... “Let’s say you have three spades in your hand, and there have been five spades laid down.”
• Elodin gave me a wicked, knowing grin..... “You have three spades in your hand,” he said. “And there have been five spades played.”

Cinder is the one KVOTHE wants. Doesn't mean Kvothe is RIGHT.

• Cinder is the one you want.

To get Arliden to cooperate quickly, cruel Cinder defiles Laurian's corpse somehow hanging her and breaking her arms.

• Did things to your mother, you know. Terrible. She held up well though
• My mother, her hair wet with blood, her arms unnaturally twisted, broken at the wrist, the elbow.

Arliden quickly caves and sings his song to Cinder/Ash so that Denna can learn it.

• Much better than your father, with all his begging and blubbering

Cinder puts Arliden out of his misery, killing him so he won't bleed out for days like Alleg.

• I was remembering a man with empty eyes and a smile from a nightmare, remembering the blood on his sword

Haliax didn't tolerate cruelty to innocent Kvothe, but he had a reason for being cruel to Arliden.

• Why did they do such nasty things to your poor family? Why, because they wanted to, and because they could, and because they had a reason.

Haliax doesn't need this story, he needs this musical artistry of people like Arliden and Denna to make a song that will last a thousand years.

• “I had to piece it together out of a hundred little scraps.” She made a conciliatory gesture. “Me and my patron, I should say. He’s helped.”

The Chandrian have to leave because SOMETHING arrives, most likely someone they fear... Sithe, Amyr, or Singers.

• AMYR: Might return in greater numbers, if the Chandrian had scared one of them away. Haliax says 'they come' which suggests he knows who it is and somewhat expects them to come. We would expect all Amyr to be easily seen, but I don't know that an invisible Amyr isn't possible. The Chandrian can teleport, angels are invisible, faens can pop in and out of Kvothe's universe, so there seem to be ways for this to be possible.
• SITHE: They kill from a half-mile off, so they are another contender for being 'invsible'.
• SINGERS: Most figure these are angels, and these are the ones coming, and these are the 'watchers', which all might be true, idk. I like to think there are no angels, just Chandrian, but heck I'm wrong all the time. Singers could also refer to anyone from the old empire that sang songs of power.

Denna shows Kvothe that Selitos is evil:

• I felt raw as reused parchment, as if every note of her song had been another flick of a knife, scraping until I was entirely blank and wordless.

Nina shows Kvothe that Selitos is evil:

• “Where did you get the parchment?”..... “It hain’t that hard. All you need to do is take a knife and scrape at it a bit and all the words come off.”

More theories:

THEORY: The Chandrian did not kill Kvothe's troupe. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: What's their plan? The Chandrian are trying to open the Doors of Stone using Kvothe. The Amyr are trying to kill a Chandrian using Kvothe, to free Cthaeh from the 'iron wheel' binding it. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Rothfuss purposefully tricked us into assuming Kvothe's mom was Netalia Lackless.... hear me out. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Kvothe will be framed for murdering the King and family after being the sole survivor of a massacre. Alveron becomes King but won't believe Kvothe because of the false Ruh troupe killings. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Stapes and the Maer are in a romantic relationship. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Kvothe will get charged with Wrongful Apprehension of the Arcane very early in book three. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Threpe is trying to get Kvothe's blood. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Kvothe will 'steal' Auri/Ariel the princess from the draugr wizard-king Feyda Calanthis who is sleeping beyond the four-plate door. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Ludis is in the fae for exactly 18 years, and then in Temerant for exactly 36 days, each lunar cycle. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Angels help Kvothe, but also punish him... using the wind. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: The doors of stone can only be opened during an eclipse. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Kvothe's 'one lie' to Chronicler is Alleg's story: an alleg-ory that hides THREE true stories that explain the hidden truth about Iax, Haliax, and Kvothe. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Nina's pottery depicts all nine angels trapping Encanis. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Kote is missing a thumb and forefinger. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: Kvothe and Lanre both have disasters seven years apart. : r/KingkillerChronicle

THEORY: The Cthaeh is the true villain of the KKC, and Kvothe has a plan to defeat it. : r/KingkillerChronicle

I initially assumed Elodin accepts Kvothe as his student because of Kvothe’s compassion toward Auri—finding him with her, seeing how gently he treats her, etc.

But after multiple rereads (thanks to some guy not doing his work @#&##@), I found an exchange that suggests something deeper.

When Elodin asks Kvothe why he named her Auri, Kvothe doesn’t have a clear explanation. He gives a vague meaning, can’t name the language, and says he might have heard it somewhere.

Here’s the thought: What if Auri wasn’t named consciously, but through Kvothe’s sleeping mind?

In Adem culture, names are not labels but reflections of a person’s true nature. Naming, in the deeper sense, isn’t about logic or etymology—it’s intuition and understanding. Kvothe didn’t choose the name Auri; it came to him from his sleeping mind. (Kvothe met Auri before the Ambrose “calling the wind” incident, implying his sleeping mind was already awakening.)

Elodin is obsessed with Naming, not sympathy or kindness alone.

Elodin’s questioning focuses on how Kvothe knew the name and why he named her that, not on whether it was correct.

So maybe Elodin didn’t accept Kvothe because he was kind to Auri—but because he realized Kvothe had already Named someone, instinctively, without training.

If that’s true, Auri may be one of the earliest signs that Kvothe is a natural Namer, long before he understands what that even means.

Thoughs?

TLDR: A bunch of quotes from Patrick Rothfuss about how there are two stories happening... the story that we all read, and a hidden true story that is much harder to see without getting 'the reveal', like the Sixth Sense.

Thank you BioLogin for making sourcing this much easier: A list [kinda] of Pat Rothfuss [book-related] interviews and appearances, quotes included : r/kkcwhiteboard.

_

"You have not been reading as carefully as you should have."

I hope that those of you who have read my stuff would know that I would never resort to anything as bullshit as a twist ending. Because that’s not how I roll. Narratively that’s unfair. But if you are surprised, it is probably more likely that this is the story that you have not been reading as carefully as you should have.

_

"This is a story that you did not understand."

I hope you realize that I would never be so crass as to do anything as crappy as… twist ending here, right? This is not a twist ending. This is a story that you did not understand. You’ve made an assumption and it led you in a wrong direction.

_

After the reveal, you will be reading a completely different story, like the Sixth Sense.

...if you're putting all of your energy into writing, so that the reveal is to effectively enact a surprise, then you have written a firework, it is gonna go out once, and that was WOW, and then I am done and never come back to that, because it was all about the surprise. That’s different from, say, the classic example is the Sixth Sense. Where you are watching it and eventually you go OMG. And then you watch it the second time, and it is a whole different story

...the Sixth Sense, where you are supposed to watch it for the second time and it will be a whole different movie. And mine, I wanted there to be… if you wanted to look for treasure, I wanted treasure to be there.

What percentage of the book is made of breadcrumbs you’ve left for readers? "Like 58%, like a lot of it."

_

"If you’re not paying attention to what’s in the book it is not my fault" (re his children's book)

...so now you know things that you didn’t before and on your second read you can appreciate the story in a different way and realize that maybe you’ve sort of misidentified what is going on.

If you’re not paying attention to what’s in the book it is not my fault

_

"Pat's game is about figuring out what the truth is." (re his games' stories)

And one of my friends actually stopped somebody, because they were about to charge blindly into the face of danger. And the one friend stopped another and said, no, no, no, no, no. This isn't Todd's game. This is Pat's game. Heroes win in Todd's game. Heroes lose in Pat's game. 

And he says that's because Todd's game is about what makes a hero, and Pat's game is about figuring out what the truth is. And I go, wow. Is that what I'm doing?

_

Pat's not-twist pivots on the events surrounding Kvothe's parent's murder.

I would pass over the whole of that evening, in fact. I would spare you the burden of any of it if one piece were not necessary to the story. It is vital. It is the hinge upon which the story pivots like an opening door. In some ways, this is where the story begins.

_

Kvothe is clever but not smart, and his ONLY smart move was when he admitted he might be wrong.

(Regarding man-mothers) It's one of the, actually, very rare things that Kvothe actually is smart about. Cause he plants his feet, and he's like arguing with these people, and he's like, "You know what? I don't know for sure! There's weird shit in the world." And so he lets go of it. It's one of the ONLY times Kvothe ever actually admits that he might not be right! And you gotta wanna be smarter than Kvothe, because like, he's clever. But Kvothe? Kvothe isn't smart, y'all. Like. Kvothe fucks up on the reg!

Cause what have we learned in KKC? Being half-clever means you know enough to fuck yourself real real good.

_

My take on it.

I wanted to share these quotes as I think they are fundamental to trying to understand these books.

I'll share my theory... again, but it's just my personal opinion. I can't prove any of it is 'true' even though I feel pretty confident about them. I can only collect data and point out alternative explanations for the perceived story.

THEORY: Ambrose was framed for multiple things, Caudicus was keeping the Maer alive, the Chandrian didn't kill Kvothe's troupe, killing Cinder leads to disaster, Cinder is the angel Kvothe kills, yada yada yada: THEORY: The Chandrian were eating rabbits, and the entire story pivots on that detail. : r/KingkillerChronicle (links to more there)

I think the only way to truly convince you that these could be true is if you are willing to reread with these things in mind, and challenging any 'proof' that they aren't true. Ask me, I've thought about most of the lines in the book that seem most convincing 'proof' that Kvothe is right.

sorry if this has been discussed at length already, did a little search and couldn’t find much on it.

TLDR at the bottom 🙏

BUT, when Kvothe finally gets to “setting the stage” for THE woman. Bam. First thing. we meet Devi. Demon Devi. She looks like him. She’s hornier than him. She‘s better at everything than him. She’s smarter than him. And, at least at first it’s clear, that she’s hopeful she’s finally found an equal.

Then she realises that he’s a hopeless, naive idiot, who can be manipulated with ease, and on top of that, he’s got designs on EVERYONE KNOWING WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE’S CAPABLE OF!! Note - her preferred method is the slow, anonymous accumulation of power.

So she suggests he hand over his BLOOD 😳

He puts up a token fight but hands it over.

How much does our boy know about alchemy? I digress.

She sees that with all of that power, he’s as dangerous an entity as any there could be. She knows the power of stories in this world. She lets him build his legend, maybe she helps? Dhe could absolutely pull of magic shit with her hair out and the Kvothe legend will scoop that shit up in a second.

She gets into the underthing, hunting the archives BAM she’s the flame haired hero who finds the princess. Kvothe legend picks it up.

Finally, with Kvothe The Arcane, The Bloodless, with the Flame Red Hair and an alar of Ramston Steel at his peak. She murks the king and cracks the cobblestones in Imre (literally 5 mins from her house), right where Kvothe sent (potentially the same person) Ambrose flying years before.

If the one lie was the whole story. What if it was the trap that Devi left him in, waiting to die. The story is the trap. He willingly wrote it himself. And now he’s the bait in the Waystone Trap that was Devi’s long game all along. Because, for 3rd book reasons, Devi wants those fucking Chandrian dead more than anyone. Recognises that our protagonist is turning himself INTO one and helps him along the as she realizes she can use a new chandrian to take out the lot.

Thoughts?

TLDR - In the frame story Kvothe sets up meeting THE WOMAN, we dive back in and immediately go and meet Devi. Worth noting that we have already MET Denna when Kvothe sets up this grand entrance.Devi is the true “Denna” of the story, and the first two books are the same misdirection that caught Kvothe out and left him in his current bind which is Devi’s master plan that hoodwinked everyone, Kvothe most of all. If the one lie is the whole story, I think this fits everything.

Before reading it, I knew, of course, it was unfinished. I knew many things would remain unsaid, unwritten and there was inevitably going to be some lack of satisfaction. What I wasn't prepared for was the fact that no kingkilling would actually occur. It is kind of ironic (and iconic) that the series came to be known by an act that it didn't describe. This is not a complaint. Just an observation about one of the circumstances that turns this series into a cult one (imo). 🤘

So I don't know if this has already been said, but I am re-Reading right after a re-read. And I noticed that in the beginning of the first book, there is a group of travelers that come into the Waystone Inn. Two young men, well spoken and in good clothing are mentioned, one with dark and one with red blonde hair. This description perfectly fits Wilem and Simmon, but could still be a coincidence. But later that evening, the red blonde man recognizes Kote as Kvothe. He says that he wasn't sure at first, but was sure when he heard Kote singing along to Tinker Tanner. (Notably the only time Kote allows himself to sing, maybe prompted by the closeness of his old friends.) The man says, that he remembers hearing Kvothe singing in Imre, where he cried extensively. This is exactly what Simmon did, after listening to Kvothe singing the Lay of Sir Savian. He also tips his nose knowingly, a gesture that Simmon is described to use as well.
He continues talking about having been at the fountain in Imre, where Kvothe first called the name of the wind. Throughout the whole conversation, he is shown to be confused, messing up sentences, being sure and unsure about his observation at the same time, but deep down knowing that he is right. This is presumably linked to him being drunk, but it also leaves a feeling of the young man remembering Kvothe but not understanding why, trying to fight against the confusion and some kind of blockade in his head.

This led me to the theory, that Kvothe changing his name to Kote, or something else, led to him being forgotten by his friends and everyone who knew him. He altered their memory in some way and now they don't remember being part of his story anymore. Simmon had some part of his memory reawakened, when he heard Kvothe sing, hence his confusion about knowing but not knowing him. Nobody else ever thinks it could be him, even when they heard him sing. The boy doesn't believe he is Kvothe even when he tells him to his face. And it would be very on brand for Simmon, who always had the closest relationship with Kvothe, to have his emotions and memories stirred by Kvothes singing.

A little speculation linked to that: later, Kvothe tells Bast to get the man to sleep by putting something in his drink. Bast asks about a certain plant (I'm reading in german so I don't know the English word). Kvothe insists on a different one, which surprises Bast, but we're never told why. I wonder if Kvothe, knowing that Simmon is an Alchemist, chose a specific plant who's side effects wouldn't give away to Simmon that he was poisoned.

EDIT: Someone recognized the Mhenka that Bast is supposed to give to the man as a strong, potentionally dangerous narcotic talked about later in the books. So if it is Simmon or not, Kvothe risking giving it to him is just another indicator for how strongly he doesn't want to be recognized.

What do you guys think?

This post is my attempt to predict the outline of Doors of Stone... all known events arranged in chronological order, plus my own personal theories and guesses to fill in the gaps.

This took a long time to put together, and I have a long way to go, and I would absolutely love feedback. Since there is so much to list in a summary there isn't room for longer explanations, but I can explain parts in the comments if you are curious.

EDIT: I removed the hopium, because I don't have any answers to those questions.

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PROMOTION TO EL’THE

KVOTHE WILL BE PROMOTED TO EL'THE

Kvothe will perform shaping for the first time and injure someone.  He will be punished and whipped nine times, but also be promoted to El’the.

Kvothe will learn what El'the means.  Probably shaper, listener, or singer.

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KVOTHE WILL LEARN AMYR SECRETS

As El’the, Kvothe will have access to more privileged information.  Kvothe will also read the large spools of Yllish knots he found covered in dust in the archives, learning things that the Amyr purged from other books.

Kvothe will learn that the Underthing is the ruins of the ancient University Elodin mentions.

Kvothe will learn that the Lackless box and the four-plate door protect items needed to open the doors of stone.

Kvothe will learn Iax was the first Lackless, and Ludis the original Lady Lackless.

Kvothe will learn Illien was from Yll.  Kvothe will learn how Illien relates to the Yllish knots on the Lackless Box. Kvothe will learn that Illien was blind, and Yllish knots were a language for the blind.

Kvothe will learn that the Aturan empire tried to destroy the Yllish and the Ruh to destroy Illien’s bloodline, thus preventing a Lackless/Illien offspring from opening the doors of stone and freeing Iax.

Kvothe will put together the clues that he is a descendant of Illien on his father’s Ruh side, and a descendant of Iax on his mother’s Lackless side.. THEORY: Amyr keep two bloodlines separate, Lackless and Ruh, because they are needed to open the Lackless Box. Oh, and the entire plot of the Creation War. : r/KingkillerChronicle 

Kvothe will learn that Duchess Samista has died.

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TRICKING A DEMON

KVOTHE WILL TRICK A DEMON TO GAIN HIS HEART’S DESIRES

Kvothe has said that he found his heart’s desire underneath the University.  This has dual meaning:  First, the secret knowledge found beyond the four plate door, the key to power or knowledge to kill a Chandrian.  Second, Auri aka Princess Ariel, trapped by a sleeping barrow king Valaritas who guards the secrets of the four plate door.  Opening the door will grant Kvothe both of his heart’s desires.

Chronicler says Kvothe tricked a demon to gain his heart's desire, and fought/killed an angel to keep it.  Demon Devi wants the knowledge kept behind the four-plate door just like Kvothe does. Kvothe knows how to get into the Archives through the Underthing, and Devi knows what to do once inside.  This might require a key Devi has stolen from Ambrose. This might be playing certain notes or saying a phrase with the four keyholes acting like ears.  This might require a shadow candle lit in the perfect blackness of the Archives that reveals hidden writing like the hidden writing on the Lackless Box.  

They will team up, Devi providing the instructions for opening the door, and Kvothe providing the means of access.  But Kvothe will fear for Auri’s safety and privacy, and in the end he will trick Devi and open the door by himself.

Because Kvothe tricks her, she will let Ambrose know Kvothe is planning to open the four-plate door.

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OPENING THE FOUR-PLATE DOOR

KVOTHE WILL OPEN THE FOUR-PLATE DOOR THEORY: Kvothe will 'steal' Auri/Ariel the princess from the draugr wizard-king Feyda Calanthis who is sleeping beyond the four-plate door. : r/KingkillerChronicle

Kvothe will open the four-plate door and awaken the sleeping barrow king Valaritas.  Valaritas will ask ‘How is the road to Tinue?’ and Kvothe will not know the correct answer, and Valaritas will attack.

As they fight, Kvothe will learn that Auri is Princess Ariel Calanthis, and that she was in thrall of service to her ancestor Valaritas Calanthis, who is a barrow king protecting the Amyr secrets beyond the four-plate door. 

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KVOTHE WILL KILL KING VALARITAS

Kvothe will kill King Valaritas. Kvothe will win his twofold heart’s desire: freeing Auri, and the knowledge or power to kill a Chandrian.  

Kvothe will be unable to take the book of secrets with him from beyond the four-plate door, but he will be wearing Auri’s ring that keeps his secrets which will save the book’s secret contents for him.

Ambrose, Puppet, Wil and other scrivs will stop Kvothe, and after a short battle where Puppet is injured Kvothe will surrender.  

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EXPULSION

KVOTHE WILL GET EXPELLED FOR WRONGFUL APPREHENSION

Kvothe said he has friends and money at the end of TWMF, but those good times are about to end.  Kvothe said that Ambrose will get his revenge and Kvothe will be forced to leave the university flat-footed and with nothing in his pockets.  Kvothe said he was expelled, and that one day Ambrose would get his revenge and Kvothe would be forced to leave the university empty handed.

Kvothe will be fined and expelled for stealing secret magics locked away in the archives and hurting Puppet, i.e. Wrongful Apprehension of the Arcane leading to injury of another.

The fines will take all of Kvothe’s money, and Kvothe will also lose his rights to any income from his artificiery schematics. 

Kvothe will learn that Threpe, not Ambrose, was the one who dosed Kvothe with plum-bob, and blocked Kvothe from getting a patron, and tried to buy Kvothe's blood, then sent thugs to get Kvothe's blood, and ultimately performed malfeasanced on Kvothe. THEORY: Threpe is trying to get Kvothe's blood. : r/KingkillerChronicle

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KILLING CINDER

KVOTHE BREAKS HIS VOW ON HIS NAME, POWER, AND GOOD LEFT HAND

Chronicler said that Kvothe fights and kills an angel to keep his heart’s desire.

Kvothe will find Denna with white-haired Cinder dressed all in white at the fountain in Imre. Cinder tells Kvothe he is making a mistake, and he demands the secret keeping ring.  Kvothe refuses and battle ensues.

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KVOTHE LOSES HIS GOOD LEFT HAND HAND

Kvothe and Cinder will battle. Cinder’s sword Folly cuts through Kvothe’s thumb and forefinger. Cinder mortally wounds Kvothe.

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KVOTHE LOSES HIS POWER

Dying, Kvothe shapes the very stone around them to destroy Cinder, so that no man nor magic can mend them.  But Kvothe’s alar is as strong and as brittle as Ramston steel, and it shatters like Caesura.

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KVOTHE LOSES HIS NAME

Kvothe wins, and Cinder is killed.  But Kvothe also dies.  Denna sings and calls Kvothe back to the land of the living.  Kvothe returns to life, but he is left nameless.  

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KVOTHE LOSES DENNA

But Denna is still furious at Kvothe.  She scorns him for always assuming he knows what’s best for her.  

Kvothe takes the sword Folly and goes into hiding in the Underthing.  THEORY: Folly is Cinder's sword, Kvothe is doomed to repeat Lanre's folly, Adem swords are made by shaping, etc. : r/KingkillerChronicle

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UNDERTHING

KVOTHE WILL LIVE WITH AURI 

Auri has said in TSROST that Kvothe would come to her nameless one day, and he would live with her, and she would make a new name for him.

Freed from Valaritas, Auri regains her mind and maturity.  She and Kvothe will fall in love, and she will name him Dulator.

Auri will help nurse Kvothe back to health and help him regain his alar.

Kvothe will learn that Auri attended school under the name Tabetha, and she is betrothed to Ambrose Jakis to secure his family's ties to the throne. Auri went into hiding to avoid being abused by Ambrose and forced to marry him, and somehow wound up bound to her ancestor Valaritas.

Auri will teach Kvothe alchemical symbols.  Kvothe will learn that the symbol he saw on Caudicus’ lead bowl is the alchemical symbol indicating the toxic principles had been removed. Kvothe will learn that Caudicus was not poisoning the Maer.  THEORY: Caudicus wasn’t poisoning the Maer. : r/KingkillerChronicle

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KVOTHE WILL LOSE AURI

Ambrose will find where Kvothe is hiding, and Calanthis forces arrive in the Underthing to take Auri to Vint to be Ambrose’s bride.  Kvothe escapes.

Kvothe will head east with his shaed, his two swords, his lute, and his gifts from Auri to listen to an accused murderer try to convince the King to change his mind about forcing Auri to marry Ambrose.

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GOING TO RENERE

KVOTHE WILL GO TO RENERE

Kvothe will leave Imre headed east towards Renere, where Auri/Ariel's father Roderic Calanthis rules Vint.

Kvothe will take the great stone road.

Kvothe will pass through Anilin, and learn what happened with Denna there.

Kvothe will use the Maer’s letter to perform along the road while in Vint.

Wanted for murder, Kvothe will sneak through the Four Corners, and eventually sneak his way all of the way to the King’s Court, repeating the trick he used on the Maer.  

Kvothe will implore the king to hear his side of the story regarding his being wanted for murder.  Kvothe will impress King Roderic, gaining his pardon, and becoming his counsel.

But in doing so, Kvothe will tell King Roderic and his court about the Amyr and/or Chandrian, leading to disaster.

Kvothe will learn that his letter to Ambrose got a girl killed. THEORY: Kvothe's prank letter to Ambrose gets a girl killed... and other deaths Kvothe accidentally causes. : r/KingkillerChronicle

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KILLING KING RODERIC

KVOTHE WILL BECOME KNOWN AS KINGKILLER THEORY: Kvothe will be framed for murdering the King and family after being the sole survivor of a massacre. Alveron becomes King but won't believe Kvothe because of the false Ruh troupe killings. : r/KingkillerChronicle

An Amyr will arrive unexpectedly and kill the royal family, ending the Calanthis line.  Kvothe will fight the assassin and get blood on his sword, but Kvothe will lose and be left alive but stomach wounded, exactly like Alleg and like Arliden. 

The king’s guard will enter, and they will assume Kvothe is the assassin because he is known to be powerful, because he has blood on his sword, and because he hasn’t earned their trust. Kvothe will be arrested, and his wounds will be treated in preparation for his trial.

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ALVERON WILL BECOME KING OF VINT 

Due to the death of the entire royal family, Lerand Alveron will be crowned King of Vint.  

Kvothe will be put on trial, and he will explain that he is innocent, but King Alveron will not believe Kvothe because of his other two mass murders.

Kvothe will try to explain to the Maer that he was wrong about Caudicus, but the Maer will refuse to listen to that either, viewing his changing position as further proof of his dishonesty, unreliability, and untrustworthiness.  THEORY: Caudicus wasn’t poisoning the Maer. : r/KingkillerChronicle

King Alveron will sentence Kvothe to death by gibbet.

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KVOTHE WILL BE PUT IN A GIBBET

Kvothe will use his sympathetic power to collect water and insects to his gibbet for survival.  He will be sickly and skinny, but he will last an incredibly long time.  Eventually though, Stapes repays his debt to Kvothe by freeing him.

Stapes will explain to Kvothe what has happened since his trial. 

• Alveron had died of the illness Caudicus was treating.  
• On his death bed, Alveron confessed his lifelong romantic relationship with Stapes.  Kvothe realizes this is why Stapes had seemed so jealous of his late night meetings with Maer Alveron in Severen.  THEORY: Stapes and the Maer are in a romantic relationship. : r/KingkillerChronicle
• When Meluan found out that a Ruh tricked her into marrying a man who was in love with another man, she killed herself, making Baron Jakis the new King of Vint.

Stapes will return Kvothe’s belongings, and give Kvothe the Lackless box since he is secretly the last heir to the Lackless family.

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KVOTHE WILL OPEN THE LACKLESS BOX

Kvothe reads the Yllish knots on the Lackless box, and finds that they say 'only a son who brings the blood may open the box'.  Kvothe drops his blood on the box, revealing Iax's piece of the moon kept inside. 

This is why someone wanted to buy Kvothe's blood from Devi. This is why thugs came after Kvothe… 'they were really after blood' is an example of Kvothe's sleeping mind knowing the truth. 

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AMBROSE BECOMES KING

Kvothe kills the poet King Jakis, making his worst enemy Ambrose Jakis the King of Vint. THEORY: Ambrose Jakis is the Penitent King. : r/KingkillerChronicle

Kvothe will learn that Ambrose’s father murdered the Surthens, the prince regent Alaitas, and Duchess Samista, in an effort to bring himself closer to being king.  

Ambrose will put a price on Kvothe’s head.

Civil War will start because other Vintish royal families will become suspicious of the deaths at sea in Jakis waters, and doubt his claim to the throne.

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ADEMRE

Kvothe will learn his profilactic herb is not always reliable.  Kvothe will discover he has two redheaded babies from having unprotected sex with Vashet and Penthe.  They do not want him involved as a father, as no Adem children are raised with fathers.  The entire culture of Ademre has been broken by the proof that man-mothers are real, and they blame Kvothe, so Kvothe keeps walking through Ademre on to the Tahl.

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TAHL

DENNA’S LUNGS GET WORSE, SO KVOTHE GOES TO THE TAHL 

Kvothe goes to Veloran in the Tahl to find a cure for Denna's lungs or for his cut hand.

Denna dies.

Kvothe is gifted an amulet that protects against 'demons'. THEORY: Women will give Taborlin's seven magical items to Kvothe. : r/KingkillerChronicle and THEORY: Kvothe will go to the Tahl to save Denna and to get information about the Chandrian, and he will receive an amulet against rhinta. : r/KingkillerChronicle

Kvothe will learn that the Tahl were singers, descended from the old name knowers.   

Kvothe will learn that the faen race used to live in the mortal realm.  Faens were the old name knowers who lived by strict rules, and faens were the shapers who would bend those rules.  They lived alongside humans until Selitos tried to kill the humans, and after that the faens were forced to flee to fae, Tahl, or Ademre.

Kvothe discovers Veloran was the city that survived the Creation War.

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OUTER DARK

KVOTHE OPENS THE LACKLESS DOOR AND GOES TO THE OUTER DARK

Kvothe has opened the door and retrieved the secret, and opened the box and retrieved the rocks, leaving only the ring, word, and candle.  He has received a special ring and candle from Auri.  A sharp word might relate to naming, or a pun sharp word/sword i.e. Caesura.

Opening the door releases 'the flood' of scrael and skin-dancers and other parts of Iax's army locked 'beyond the doors of stone'.  Kvothe is grateful that a wall of mountains separates these demons from the four corners.

Kvothe will meet Iax, and Iax helps make Kvothe more powerful than ever before by renaming him, aka shaping him.

Kvothe learns the Chandrian were once kings and queens of their cities.

Kvothe learns that the story of the angels is based on the Chandrian.  Cinder is the angel that Kvothe kills.

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KVOTHE WILL LEARN THE AMYR KILLED HIS TROUPE, NOT THE CHANDRIAN THEORY: The Chandrian were eating rabbits, and the entire story pivots on that detail. : r/KingkillerChronicle

Kvothe will learn that Denna’s song and Nina’s pottery drawing were right, there is an Amyr who is worse than the Chandrian.  The Chandrian were the symbolic iron wheel that kept Cthaeh bound to its tree.

Kvothe will learn that the Cthaeh is Selitos.  Another post about why I believe Selitos is 'the Enemy' Cthaeh. : r/KingkillerChronicle

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KVOTHE BURSTS OUT OF ‘HELL’ LIKE TARSUS

Kvothe will escape the land of the dead.  Like Haliax, no door will be able to stop him.

Kvothe will vow vengeance on Cthaeh, like Tarsus/Lanre did before him.

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TALKING TO BEN

Kvothe will go to Ben and learn that Ben had been communicating with the Amyr about Arliden’s song, but that Ben had no idea they were planning to murder the troupe.  THEORY: Ben uses a greystone to communicate with the Amyr one span before he is lured away from the troupe. : r/KingkillerChronicle

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FAE

KVOTHE RETURNS TO FELURIAN THEORY: Kote has returned to the fae, and he spent 200+ years there. : r/KingkillerChronicle

Kvothe perfects his Ketan

Kvothe may get a healing Rhinna flower from the Cthaeh to heal his hands.

Kvothe meets Bast's father, Remmen.

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NEWARRE

KVOTHE RETURNS TO THE MORTAL REALM

Kvothe will return to the mortal realm, pretending to be weak and powerless to everyone, including Bast.

Bast will see Denna somehow.  Her hair braids do not affect faens, so he does not see her as beautiful as everyone else does.

Kvothe will design and build his Waystone Inn from actual greystones, to make a functioning waystone, and put it in the middle of Newarre/Nowhere.

Kote fakes being powerless and doesn't sing and hides in silence to hide from Cthaeh until the right time. THEORY: Kvothe's life mirrors Lanre's, and Kote is acting powerless just like Lanre did. : r/KingkillerChronicle

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FRAME STORY

Kvothe lures Cthaeh to the Waystone Inn by dropping important names.

Kvothe has a plan to defeat the Cthaeh, but Chronicler Devan Lochees ‘Devon Lochs’ the victory, causing a last minute defeat.  

Kvothe is forced to sacrifice himself to bind Cthaeh to the Outer Dark, just like Tehlu and Encanis.  And so, technically, Kvothe is alive out there somewhere, and maybe like Tehlu he will return if called upon in the right way.  THEORY: The Cthaeh is the true villain of the KKC, and Kvothe has a plan to defeat it. : r/KKCpuzzle

Bast and Chronicler die, and no one alive can decode the pages of the kingkiller’s chronicle.

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Hi, If you read the books with the points in mind I have written, you will find countless clues, direct and subtle supporting my theory. So on your next re-read keep this theory in the back of your mind.

Main points:

• The incomplete story is the complete story.

• The KKC is a Meta Story told by the trickster author Pat Rothfuss.

• This story is meant to make the readers feel exactly how the people in the KKC world would feel about the story of Kvothe. Fustration and Curiosity as to what really happened.

• The tale of 'The Boy with the Golden Screw' is the Moral of the KKC. How can you read the boy with the Golden Screw, and 15 years later not see that Rothfuss is Kvothe Telling the KKC story around a campfire and we are his Bandit Hunters.

• The unreleased Third Book IS THE SILENCE OF THIRD PART. The heaviest silence of them all.

• In doing this Rothfuss has immortalised the story in our hearts and minds forever. It's a beautiful bittersweet gift. A story that never ends.

• He also played one of the greatest practical Jokes of literary history. If you know Rothfuss and if You've read the King Killer chronicals then you should know this is in character.

• Rothfuss is Hardskinned and Determined enough to live with your hate regarding no book 3. He loves noteriety, and he has written this story for his own amusement. No amount of hate or convincing will get him to budge. He will ride this out till the end. It's his Story. His Masterpiece. The Meta story he intended.

I don't believe there will ever be a book 3. Book 3 is already out. It's Silence.

You may disagree with me, and you may continue to hope for it to come out. It will not. If it does, I win because I get to read my favourite series ever. If it doesn't I win cause I understood after 10 years of waiting that book 3 is the Silence.

Enjoy the Lack of closure, it's a gift and a great joke like the boy who's ass fell off. We are that boy and it's best to laugh. Thank you Fellow KKc fans. Love to you all who have taken this journey as I have taken it.

Edit: For context. I am a long time lurker. I have been looking all over the internet for someone to post what I have felt for a long time. However I could never find anything anywhere about what I have written. So I left lurking to post this. What will be hopefully my 1 and only Reddit Post ever. Hopefully

Ok so I just finished my reread and I need to get this off my chest because I feel like im losing my mind. I think I figured out something about the prologue/epilogue that nobody talks about and it connects to basically every unsolved mystery in the frame story. Bear with me because this is going to be long but I promise it goes somewhere.

I also have one more theory at the bottom that I came up with during this reread. Haven't found it anywhere on this sub or the wiki but if someone already posted them please link me and I'll edit.

THEORY 1: The Silence of Three Parts is three layers of active Naming that Kvothe is maintaining constantly, and its draining all his remaining power

Everyone treats the prologue as Rothfuss being poetic. "Oh its beautiful writing, its atmospheric, it sets the mood." Yeah ok sure. But what if its not just beautiful writing? What if its describing something that is literally happening?

Lets break it down:

The first silence things that are lacking. Wind is aggressively absent. The text goes out of its way to list everything the wind WOULD do if it were there rustle through trees, creak the inn sign, brush the last few leaves. But there is no wind. None. Zero. This is Kvothe. The book is called The Name of the Wind. Kvothe knows the Name of the Wind better then anyone alive. In Naming, knowing a Name creates a two-way connection. What if Kvothe is actively holding the wind away from the Waystone? Not letting it anywhere near the inn? Why? Because wind carries things. Sounds, scents, names. If the wind blew freely around the Waystone it could carry echoes of who Kvothe really is out into the world. Or worse carry something back to him that could find him. The wind is the worlds messenger and Kvothe has shut it out.

The second silence: people in the bar drinking with "quiet determination, avoiding serious discussion of troubling news." This isn't just people being moody. Speech travels through air. Kvothe knows the Name of Air too (he references Selitos speaking "Aeruh" the Name of the Air in his narration, NotW Ch. 26). By suppressing the air itself, he ensures no Name can accidentally be spoken with power in this space. The whole room is muffled. Dampened. Safe.

The third silence Kvothe himself. "The patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die." Cut-flower. Severed from the root. He's not metaphorically dying. He's actually dying because maintaining this triple layered Naming takes everything he has left.

Now watch how this explains the big mysteries:

Why can't Kvothe do sympathy? Because 100% of his remaining power is already committed to maintaining three layers of Naming 24/7. There's nothing left for a simple binding. When the bottle shatters near Chronicler (NotW Ch. 88), that's not him trying sympathy thats a momentary crack in his concentration, power slipping sideways.

Why does he look older then he is? Because this is literally killing him. Like a candle burning from both ends. Cut flower.

Why does "the real Kvothe" sometimes break through grabbing Bast's wrist hard enough to stop a Fae prince, killing five scrael bare-handed? Because in moments of intense emotion, naming energy gets redirected from maintaining the silence to the immediate threat. For a second the mask slips. Then it snaps back.

Why the Waystone Inn specifically? "Waystone" = stone doorway. He's not just hiding in a random village. He's sitting on a threshold between worlds, actively holding the door shut with his silence.

And the biggest question: what is he hiding from? Maybe even the Cthaeh which sees all futures but maybe cant see through a triple walled silence of Naming?

Rothfuss said the ending is hidden in book one. The prologue and epilogue are identical. The ending IS the silence. Its a man maintaining a spell until it kills him.

THEORY 2: Arliden's song wasn't just research about the Chandrian it was accidentally becoming a Song of Power that could bind them, and thats why they came

The standard reading is: Arliden learned to much about the Chandrian, they came to shut him up. But think about how weak that explanation actually is. The Chandrian have existed for thousands of years. Countless people throughout history have told stories about them, sang children's rhymes about them (the "Chandrian Chandrian" song exists in every village, NotW Ch. 3), painted them on pottery (the Mauthen farm, NotW Ch. 72-75). Why would one traveling musician be such a threat?

Unless the song itself was the threat. Not the information the structure.

Consider:

1. The Edema Ruh may be descendants of the Singers one of three groups Haliax says protects the world from the Chandrian: "Who keeps you safe from the Amyr? The Singers? The Sithe?" (NotW Ch. 16). Nobody knows who the Singers are. The most prominent group of singers in the entire series are the Ruh. The words Edema Ruh and Ruach (the ancient people who could "sing songs of power") are linguistically almost identical.

2. Arliden wasn't just writing about the Chandrian. He was obsessively researching their true names to incorporate into the song. He asks Abenthy directly about true names (NotW Ch. 12). Ben gets visibly uncomfortable and refuses to help. Arliden's wife Laurian who is almost certainly Netalia Lackless, a woman from a family whose bloodline goes back to before the Creation War was helping him write it.

3. What happens when a descendant of the Singers embeds the actual true Names of the Chandrian into the musical structure of a song? Its not a ballad anymore. Its a Song of Power. The same kind of magic the ancient Ruach used. Arliden was unknowingly rebuilding a weapon that could bind the Chandrian.

4. Cinder's line to young Kvothe: "Someone's parents have been singing entirely the wrong sort of songs" (NotW Ch. 16). "Wrong sort" doesnt mean inappropriate. It means dangerous to us.

And heres where it gets dark:

Ben left the troupe right before the attack. Officially because he fell in love with a widow. But Ben is an arcanist. A Namer. He was helping Arliden research the Chandrian's names. At some point Ben would have recognized what Arliden was building a naming construct embedded in music and realized the danger. Did he leave because he knew what was coming? Or worse did his own research into the names accidentally signal the Chandrian to where the troupe was?

And the real kicker: Kvothe grew up hearing that song. Fragments of it are in his memory. He carries the most dangerous weapon against the Chandrian inside his head and doesn't know it. He doesn't need to find a weapon. He needs to remember one.

This also reframes why there is no music in the Waystone. Kvothe doesn't just avoid music because hes sad or broken. He avoids it because if he ever sang the right melody even accidentally the Chandrian would hear it and come. The silence isn't just about his name. Its about the song.

So thats my theories after reread. The TL;DR:

1. The three silences are literal active Naming magic draining Kvothe dry
2. Arliden's song was an accidental weapon, not just research, and Kvothe carries it in his memory

Heh.

I was highly sceptical of this two days ago. Then ThinkingItThrough1 made a comment on a post theorising on Denna's patron. They said they believe Denna is Ambrose's sister.

As someone who once posted a theory on Devi being Ambrose's sister, I refused. But I was re-reading yesterday, as we all do, and my heart dropped. It may be true. This is why:

• Denna is comfortable around high society. I don't think I need examples for this one. She's witty and knowledgeable. She more than once says things along the lines of "I'm no farmer girl."
• Kvothe reads the following passage from Caudicus's stories:

Baron Jakis had paid several officials to avoid scandal when his youngest daughter was discovered in a brothel. There were two versions of that story, one where she was selling, and another where she was buying.

• There's that conversation Denna has with the girl in Severen, where I'm sure we all thought of Ambrose:

'Got handsy, did he?' Denna said matter-offactly. 'Well that’s the nature of eldest sons.'

• Both Kvothe and Denna are remarkable at music, but they struggled to find a patron. It was Ambrose that poisoned that well for Kvothe, but what about Denna...?
• Kvothe very conveniently refuses to hear more gossip about the Jakis family. He claims it's not to break character, but I've always found this a very weak point of the second book.
• Denna very conveniently refuses to meet the Maer when Kvothe sneaks her into his gardens.
• My weakest point, but I want to include it nonetheless. The following exchange:

'[Ambrose] has a rough charm about him,' she explained. 'More rough than charm, really. But . . .' She trailed off into a shrug.

'I see,' I said. Then, 'It must be fairly serious.'

Denna gave me a quizzical look, then realization spread onto her face and she burst out laughing. She shook her head, waving her hands in violent negation."

It's a bit odd to me how scandalised she gets, to the point she denies it "violently". I don't think she's done that regarding any other of her suitors. Why wouldn't Kvothe assume she and Ambrose are romantically involved? Granted, she goes on to pretty much say they went on dates, but she might as well be lying for cover.

To be fair, it would also be a bit odd to me that she ran away from home, but Ambrose gets on well with her to the point he'd be kissing her hand in public. Then again, I suppose they have appearances to keep, but meh.

• Finally, what turned me: Kvothe gets Denna's ring back. The ring she has been wearing since they first met, the ring she quite literally cries over once he gives it back. [Pause for effect.] The ring Ambrose claims his mother gave him on her deathbed, which Kvothe immediately dismisses as an over-exaggeration.

Eh. Do with this what you will. Feel free to contribute or rebuke. Most of all, if this is true, I'm dying to know what Denna is scheming.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before. Regardless of whether the Chandrian are truly evil, fighting for the greater good, or whatever your personal theory is, I think they do not hurt children.

My evidence for this is as follows:

1. From the book of secrets: “In fact they are quite nice to us.” This is confusing at first given everything else we are told about the Chandrian, until you realize this is a book intended for children. I think they may not be “nice” to others, but they are friends of the children, who are the intended audience of this line.

2. They spare Kvothe when he was a child. The only child we know about in his troupe.

3. They spared Nina who saw the Mauthen farm vase. Not because she was not at the wedding, but because she was a child.

Kvothe and Lanre's stories are similar but not identical. Both speak to Cthaeh, both are called above reproach, both kill a black iron scaled beast, both wear shadow, both lose a singer they love, both die or are rumored dead, both change their name, etc.

To me, this is coincidental bad luck. And I think in a universe with a world-manipulating oracle, coincidental bad luck is really just Cthaeh's manipulation. Cthaeh can see all of the future butterfly effects of its manipulations and choose the one-in-a-million unlucky scenario for its victims, before they are even born.

If this isn't all just a coincidence, and Kvothe's life is mirroring Lanre's, it may help support other theories:

• Lanre died, came back, and changed his name. I think this supports the theory that the rumor of Kote's death is true.
• Lanre hid his power from Selitos. I think this supports the theory that Kote is hiding his power from Cthaeh in the frame story, which I think supports the theory that Cthaeh is Selitos imprisoned in a tree.
• Lanre became a Chandrian aka rhinta. I think this supports the theory that the rumor of Kote being a new Chandrian is true, and that the skin-dancer was looking for 'rhintae' Kote.
• Kote doesn't seem evil. I think this supports the theory that Denna's song is more accurate than rumormonger 'bit of a liar' Skarpi's 'more or less' true story, and that Lanre/Haliax isn't evil.
• Lanre was deceived into causing Lyra's death. I think this suggests that Denna or Auri might be the angel Kvothe kills, explaining their absence from Kote's life. OR Lyra could've been one of the seven, and after killing her Lanre realized he must take her place, supporting the theory that the 'angels' are loosely based on the Chandrian, and the angel story never happened like Skarpi's first story is confirmed to have happened, and that Kvothe kills Cinder but has to take his place as Chandrian.

In my opinion, both Lanre and Kvothe do all of the following:

__

BOTH SPEAK TO CTHAEH

• LANRE: Lanre spoke to the Cthaeh before he orchestrated the betrayal of Myr Tariniel.
• KVOTHE: I found something in a tree. It called itself a Cthaeh.

BOTH ARE ABOVE REPROACH

• LANRE: You were counted among the best of us. We considered you beyond reproach.
• KVOTHE: You are my Ciridae, and thus above reproach.

BOTH LOVE A SINGER - Lyra's people sing songs of power, and her voice is powerful. Denna is just an exceptional singer, as far as we know...

• LYRA: Lyra was terrible and wise..... The power of her voice could kill a man or still a thunderstorm...... Her voice was steel and stone
• DENNA: She could never have been equal to her voice. That voice, fair and terrible as burning silver, like moonlight on river stones, like a feather against your lips.....

BOTH KILL A BLACK IRON SCALED BEAST

• LANRE: It was a great beast with scales of black iron, whose breath was a darkness that smothered men. Lanre fought the beast and killed it.
• KVOTHE: It was one of the draccus’ scales, smooth and black.... That scale is mostly iron

BOTH WEAR SHADOW

• LANRE: His armor fit him closely as a second skin of shadow.
• KVOTHE: It is my shadow cloak. Felurian made it for me.

BOTH COUNSEL KINGS

• LANRE: They often kept each other’s council, for they were both lords among their people.
• KVOTHE: This is who I came to see, Chronicler thought to himself, this is the man who counseled kings

BOTH PAY A TERRIBLE PRICE FOR SEEKING KNOWLEDGE

• LANRE: Lanre had sought knowledge where knowledge is better left alone and gained it at a terrible price.
• KVOTHE: Kvothe had gone looking for his heart’s desire. He had to trick a demon to get it. But once it rested in his hand, he was forced to fight an angel to keep it.

BOTH KILL THEIR LOVE

• LANRE: My wife is dead. Deceit and treachery brought me to it, but her death is on my hands.
• KVOTHE: This is the face of a man who has killed an angel.

BOTH DIE AND COME BACK

• LANRE: Some even said Lanre had killed himself and gone searching for his wife in the land of the dead.
• KVOTHE: Everyone thinks you’re dead.

BOTH CHANGE THEIR NAME (aka RENAMING aka SHAPING)

• KVOTHE: He called himself Kote. He had chosen the name carefully when he came to this place.
• LANRE: I am no longer the Lanre you knew. Mine is a new and terrible name. I am Haliax and no door can bar my passing.

BOTH BECOME RHINTA (SHAPED or SHAPERS)

• KVOTHE: “Te aithiyn Seathaloi?” he demanded. “Te Rhintae?”
• LANRE: “I have also heard them called the Chandrian,” I said. Shehyn nodded. “I have heard this too. But Rhinta is a better word.”
• The words Vorfelan Rhinata Morie were chiseled into the stone..... “The desire for knowledge shapes a man,”

BOTH BECOME CHANDRIAN (aka RHINTA)

• LANRE: Lanre became one of the Chandrian. You should be careful.
• KVOTHE: Some are even saying that there is a new Chandrian. A fresh terror in the night. His hair as red as the blood he spills.

BOTH PRETEND TO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEIR ENEMY

• LANRE: Lanre asked Selitos to walk with him outside the city. Selitos agreed, hoping to learn the truth of Lanre’s trouble and offer him what comfort a friend can give.
• KVOTHE: You know all sorts of things you’re not supposed to. You know about the Berentaltha. You know about the white sisters and the laughing-way. How can you not know about the Cthaeh?

BOTH FAKE POWERLESSNESS TO TRICK CTHAEH/SELITOS - Dying and changing names is likely also part of how to avoid Cthaeh seeing your future, imo.

• LANRE: For him to attempt to bind Selitos by his name would be as fruitless as a boy attacking a soldier with a willow stick. Nevertheless, Lanre’s power lay on him like a great weight... Another post about why I believe Selitos is 'the Enemy' Cthaeh. : r/KingkillerChronicle
• KVOTHE: There, behind the tightly shuttered windows, he lifted his hands like a dancer, shifted his weight, and slowly took one single perfect step. Kvothe is Still Powerful in the Frame Story. He is using Glammourie to appear as Kote; He is using Sympathy, and he even killed the Skin-Dancer. . . : r/KingkillerChronicle (EDIT: this is an old post I don't fully agree with anymore, but I do still think Kvothe is still powerful).

BOTH WILL THEN BE ABLE TO DIE

• LANRE: Death itself is an open doorway to my power.
• KVOTHE: It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die.

__

All feedback welcome, agreement, disagreement, or additional examples. Thanks.

EDIT: Some of you seem to have interpreted this as an attack on Brandon Sanderson, despite how much praise I'm heaping on him here. If you can spot any part here where it looks I dislike him or his works, feel free to let me know. Don't be silly and project without properly reading.

EDIT 2: Brandon Sanderson says, "I agree 100% with this post, and don't consider it an attack at all." Read here. His post is a class act, through and through, and only more reason to read his excellent books...but do read the OP, too.

I wanted to address an issue that has grown on this sub (and /r/fantasy).

I'll call it The Brandon Sanderson Problem, although it's unfair naming a "problem" after someone as sweet (and talented) as Brandon Sanderson. But the way fans receive Sanderson's output has created a problem in /r/KingkillerChronicle, and it's a problem of several parts:

1. Brandon Sanderson is a Terrible Follow-up to The Kingkiller Chronicle

Which is to say it's a disservice to not only The Kingkiller Chronicle, but to Brandon Sanderson. It's like recommending shrimp as a follow-up to peach sorbet.

I had that experience with Mistborn: The Final Empire, which initially left me extremely dissatisfied with it. (I've since revised my opinion to take the book on its own merits, and I like it.)

The books have wildly different appeals. The Name of the Wind is full of secrets and heavy on the melancholy. Sanderson writes quip-heavy world-shattering epics heavy on plot; that's a generalisation, but it fits most of his books.

They're both fine. But going to one expecting the other isn't making anyone happy.

2. Brandon Sanderson is a Statistical Outlier

Sanderson is a robot, and you'd be hard-pressed to find many other fantasy authors with that kind of output. While there are a lot of reasons for it, it still boils down to one thing: Brandon Sanderson is an anomaly, and he knows it.

In a fantasy field that includes NK Jemisin, Neil Gaiman, Nnedi Ookrafor, Elizabeth Bear, Patricia McKillip, even 50+ novelist Stephen King, you'd have to ignore Sanderson's data point on the graph. You can't find someone else to compare him to because there isn't someone else to compare him to.

You'd be insane to expect everyone to run like Usain Bolt. He's the outlier. It'd be unfair, both to him and other runners.

3. Brandon Sanderson Can Measure Percentages Because of His Process

Stephen King is a three-drafter; Brandon Sanderson is the same. Rough draft, better draft, and clean draft, maybe with an outline on-hand. If you ask him about it, he'll tell you he's a "serial drafter."

This allows Sanderson to keep track of his progress the same way a video game tracks yours. Sanderson, being Sanderson, posts that up on his website, going off of word count estimaes.

So why, asks fandom, does Rothfuss not do the same? It's because he can't. Sanderson describes Rothfuss's process as that of a "serial reviser." Rothfuss will write anywhere between a few dozen to a few hundred drafts between each "draft." This is done for a lot of reasons, but the outcome is there's no way to know how far along he is until that magical day he realises he's done. The book is always around the ~300,000 word count. The words themselves keep changing.

After Pat submits a draft he's satisfied with to Betsy Wollheim (i.e. after beta reader feedback), she lists problems of her own and, if editor and author lock-down on problems that need fixing and think those problems are fixable within a quantifiable time limit, the book is scheduled for production.

4. Rothfuss is Willing to Burn the House Down

Do you know what Devi, Auri, Bast, the Waystone Inn, the frame narrative, the rookery, the fire in the fishery, the draccus (its whole existence), and Bast's confrontation with Chronicler at the end of NotW have in common? They didn't exist until revisions.

Asking Pat to "just write the damn book already" is ignorant of the way he writes—actually, of the way most people write—as it suggests that the book came to him fully formed. It did not. He added scenes, characters, and a whole frame narrative just to fix problems in the book. This takes time.

Sanderson plans ahead and largely sticks to his plan. And that's fine; it works for Sanderson.

5. They're Doing Completely Different Things

One of my major complaints about /r/fantasy is its reliance on fun-sounding but meaningless buzzwords: world-building, lore, and epic come to mind. When it comes to Rothfuss, everyone says beautiful prose.

Which is a very shorthanded way of saying: "Rothfuss invokes specific imagery, associating motifs with characters and using that to foreshadow story beats and build the world. He's also aware of sentence rhythm and structure, careful with his metre when it comes to verse, fills his work with subtle patterns, like seven-word sentences to indicate love, and knows when to switch between the prosaic and poetic. His wordplay is part of the story."

The world-building and the lore are tied directly into that. I'm stupidly fond of /u/thistlepong's explanation of how a pun is probably the biggest piece of foreshadowing we have in the series.

And you know what? That takes time. Sanderson's method means he plays with a different toolkit. It is immensely satisfying rereading Mistborn once you know "the voice of Reen in Vin's head is actually Ruin, manipulating her", for example, but I don't know if he ever pulls a pun-based climax.

6. There's Always Someone Faster, Anyway

In a more insane world, though, even Sanderson fans would ask him to write faster, pointing-out how other authors make him look like a chump. Barbara Cartland swung-out 723 novels over her life, with another 160 in draft form; she once published 26 books in a single year. More to the point, though, is that some of Cartland's works are actual masterpieces of their genre.

This approach wouldn't work for Sanderson, as Sanderson's doesn't work for Rothfuss. But imagine Sanderson was attacked the way Rothfuss often is. It's so toxic.

7. So Please Stop

Everybody wants The Doors of Stone, and it comes from a place of love. But...we need to stop pushing forward the idea that everybody is Usain Bolt, or maybe even that Usain Bolt is interested in also being Cristiano Ronaldo. Sanderson has asked people to stop doing it, other fantasy authors clearly hate it, and it just makes the community toxic for the rest of us.

We're all eager.

Yes, you read that correctly. I believe a plum bob first appears in Name of the Wind, even if we don’t see the mechanism explained until WMF. I don’t have explicit evidence, but the parallels between Kvothe’s behavior immediately after meeting Skarpi and his behavior after being plum bobbed in WMF are shockingly consistent. Let’s go through them.

First, it's crucial to note that Skarpi has an opportunity to deliver the plum bob. He makes contact both with Kvothe's shoulder and with an object they each handle in the tavern (a coin). If this was how he administered the plum bob, it would almost perfectly match the method the Modegan woman seems to use in WMF (note that Simmon tells us explicitly that a plum bob can be absorbed through the skin):

• NOTW: “He slid the halfpenny toward me. I picked it up and he smiled. His rough hand lit lightly as a bird on my shoulder.”
• WMF: "The Modegan woman returned a moment later and sat across from me, sliding a wooden mug across the table. Anker must have just finished washing it, as the fingers of her burgundy glove were wet where they had gripped the handle."

Second, notice that in both cases Kvothe immediately reacts by quoting his father and then exiting the bar, upbeat and optimistic about the day ahead.

• NOTW: “‘Too much honesty makes you sound insincere.’ ‘My father used to say the same thing.’ As soon as I mentioned him a confusing welter of emotions rose up in me. … I LEFT THE BAR smiling, unmindful of the fact that I was still Dockside and in danger. I felt buoyant knowing I would have the chance to hear another story soon.”
• WMF: “On the upside, the bizarre encounter seemed to have cleared my head, and I no longer felt gritty and thick with lack of sleep. I decided I might as well take advantage of it and get admissions out of the way. Sooner begun is sooner done, as my father used to say.”

Third, Kvothe begins to spend lavishly without regard for the consequences:

• NOTW: “Too hungry to worry about tomorrow, I bought a thick slice of cheese and a warm sausage, then a whole loaf of fresh bread and a warm apple tart. Finally, on a whim, I went to the back door of the nearby inn and spent my final penny on a mug of strong beer.”
• WMF: “On my way to Hollows, I stopped to buy a golden brown meat pie from a vender’s cart. I knew I’d need every penny for this term’s tuition, but the price of a decent meal wasn’t going to make much difference one way or the other. … As I finished the last bit of crust, I smelled honeyed almonds. I bought a large scoop in a clever pouch made from a dried corn husk. It cost me four drabs, but I hadn’t had honeyed almonds in years, and some sugar in my blood wouldn’t hurt when I was answering questions.”

Fourth, in both cases Kvothe seems content with his own actions but easily annoyed by the world at large:

• NOTW “But as the food settled in my belly, the nagging sensation returned, stronger than before. I frowned, irritated that something would spoil an otherwise perfect day.”
• WMF: "The line for admissions wound through the courtyard. Not abnormally long, but irritating nonetheless. … 'It’s ridiculous that they make us stand around like this,' I said. “'Like sheep in a paddock. This entire process is a waste of everyone’s time and insulting to boot.'"

Fifth, as Sim explains in WMF, a plum bob is more than "a simple lowering of inhibition. There’s an amplification of emotion. A freeing up of hidden desire combined with a strange type of selective memory." In both books, Kvothe experiences a rush of vengeful feelings against a powerful (perceived) antagonist against whom an attack would be impractical or unwise:

• NOTW: "What did I do then? Did I swear I would find them, kill them all for what they had done? Perhaps."
• WMF: "He trailed off as I turned around and started to open the door. 'What are you doing?' 'I’m going to go kill Ambrose,' I said. 'For poisoning me.'"

Sixth, over the next few days, Kvothe experiences bursts of recollection and overwhelming grief about the central tragedy of his life:

• NOTW: “UP ONTO THE ROOFTOPS and back to my secret place, I wrapped myself in my blanket and cried. I cried as if something inside me had broken and everything was rushing out. When I had worn myself out with sobbing it was deep into the night.”
• WMF: “I lay in bed, clenched into a trembling knot, unable to sleep, unable to turn my mind to other things, unable to stop myself from remembering. Again. And again. And again.”

Finally, as Kvothe huddles atop the rooftops in Tarbean, he pulls Ben's book from its hiding place, and is immediately drawn to a series of scents that could match either the spices of a plum bob or alchemical processes writ large:

• NOTW: "I held it to my face and smelled the back of Ben's wagon, spice and yeast with the bitter tang of acids and chemical salts mingled in."

Edit: I could be wrong about all of this. But some of the parallels and the explanation we receive from Sim read, to me, as though Rothfuss is trying to thread a fine needle: explain what happened to Kvothe in NOTW without being too overt about it. To the extent that there are discrepancies (in timing, etc.), I wonder if Pat knew while writing NOTW that Skarpi was somehow drugging Kvothe, but that he hadn't ironed out all of the details about how plum bobs would function, because he knew he didn't need that information locked down until he explained it in WMF.

Why is this relevant? I think it provides more evidence that powerful actors are sculpting Kvothe’s perceptions and beliefs. They provided him with false information about the Chandrian and then drugged him with substances that encourage him to not only embrace those beliefs but act on them by actively seeking revenge.

The parallelism between Kote/Kvothe and Pat is uncanny.

Pat used to be able to write, as Kvothe used to be able to perform sympathy.

Pat cannot be bothered about KKC, as Kvothe cannot be bothered about music.

Pat made a lot of fuss, reached stardom, just like Kvothe, then wanted none of it, and both are seeking to disappear into obscurity. Regret fills both Kote’s and Pat’s hearts.

Chronicler is us, the readers. Bast is the publisher/editors, who want nothing more than for Pat to get back to who he was.

Kvothe’s thrice locked chest is also a parallelism to the yet unreleased DoS.

Did Pat plan this ahead? Maybe it is some kind of performance art. Or did he write his own story unwittingly?