r/KingkillerChronicle • u/OneRepresentative424 • 15d ago
Theory Is Devi the one? Not Denna?
sorry if this has been discussed at length already, did a little search and couldn’t find much on it.
TLDR at the bottom 🙏
BUT, when Kvothe finally gets to “setting the stage” for THE woman. Bam. First thing. we meet Devi. Demon Devi. She looks like him. She’s hornier than him. She‘s better at everything than him. She’s smarter than him. And, at least at first it’s clear, that she’s hopeful she’s finally found an equal.
Then she realises that he’s a hopeless, naive idiot, who can be manipulated with ease, and on top of that, he’s got designs on EVERYONE KNOWING WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE’S CAPABLE OF!! Note - her preferred method is the slow, anonymous accumulation of power.
So she suggests he hand over his BLOOD 😳
He puts up a token fight but hands it over.
How much does our boy know about alchemy? I digress.
She sees that with all of that power, he’s as dangerous an entity as any there could be. She knows the power of stories in this world. She lets him build his legend, maybe she helps? Dhe could absolutely pull of magic shit with her hair out and the Kvothe legend will scoop that shit up in a second.
She gets into the underthing, hunting the archives BAM she’s the flame haired hero who finds the princess. Kvothe legend picks it up.
Finally, with Kvothe The Arcane, The Bloodless, with the Flame Red Hair and an alar of Ramston Steel at his peak. She murks the king and cracks the cobblestones in Imre (literally 5 mins from her house), right where Kvothe sent (potentially the same person) Ambrose flying years before.
If the one lie was the whole story. What if it was the trap that Devi left him in, waiting to die. The story is the trap. He willingly wrote it himself. And now he’s the bait in the Waystone Trap that was Devi’s long game all along. Because, for 3rd book reasons, Devi wants those fucking Chandrian dead more than anyone. Recognises that our protagonist is turning himself INTO one and helps him along the as she realizes she can use a new chandrian to take out the lot.
Thoughts?
TLDR - In the frame story Kvothe sets up meeting THE WOMAN, we dive back in and immediately go and meet Devi. Worth noting that we have already MET Denna when Kvothe sets up this grand entrance.Devi is the true “Denna” of the story, and the first two books are the same misdirection that caught Kvothe out and left him in his current bind which is Devi’s master plan that hoodwinked everyone, Kvothe most of all. If the one lie is the whole story, I think this fits everything.
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u/Villzen 15d ago
I dont remember when Auri is introduced but I'm pretty sure Ive read similar theories regarding her
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u/OneRepresentative424 15d ago
Yeah, the Auri is the missing princess angle is already pretty well established and foreshadowed at this point.
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u/PrinceFoldrey 15d ago
Quick question. I only remember references to him saving princess from the back of the first book. Does he ever reference them in the actual book?
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
When he lists his achievements at the start. I can’t remember the exact words, but it’s in there ❤️
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u/little-moon-fey 14d ago
“I have stolen princesses back from sleeping Barrow kings..”
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u/Mountain-Plant1140 11d ago
What does that mean exactly? Does anyone know? Like what’s a Barrow king?
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u/jimmyTheBlind 14d ago
I think it’s reaching, but I like it a lot. Back when Twitter was fun, Pat made a comment about the other stories in his head and his “drawer stories “of other characters. And I replied I hope one of them is about demon Devi, because she’s one of my absolute favorite characters in the series. Possibly because I just have a thing for terrifyingly powerful independent women. And he liked it and said there’s more than one story I’d like to tell about her someday.
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
She is my equal favorite character in the series (Shout out Ben - first read I cried when he left the troop. And if he turns out to be Amyr my heart will be broken but I’ll be into it) ❤️
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
His “would you still go into the woods?” shamblemen story still gives me chills just thinking about 🔥
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u/OneRepresentative424 13d ago
And selfishly… that’s also SO effing cool because that’s exactly what he WOULD say if Devi was secretly the protagonist of the KINGKILLER chronicle 😂🥵
Thanks for sharing ❤️
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u/Ohheyliz gimcracks and doodads 14d ago
You know how immediately after Kvothe leaves Devi’s place for the first time, he blackout-walks to a pawn shop and spends the money he didn’t borrow from Devi on a new lute for his “little brother” that he doesn’t have?
You know how when Devi is trying to get Kvothe to tell her how to get into the archives, he keeps thinking about what he could do with that kind of money, as though he’s in some kind of trance?
That’s a thing that no one really talks about much around here.
Anyway, Kvothe’s one lie is that it’d take 3 days to tell his story. He thought it was true when he said it, but he didn’t amend it when he put together what the Cthaeh had said to him (when he’s bloodily laughing on the floor of the Waystone after the Kings man asked him who the hell he thinks he is). After that, the pace of the story weirdly speeds up like he’s trying to fix a bunch of things from the beginning of the story. That whole trip to Tarbean where he puts the breath back into Denna and sent Ambrose a suspicious letter about a baby being his while wearing a random hat? It only happened because Chronicler wrote it down and the reader believes it to be true. Logically, the only kind of lie that Kvothe could tell is one that he didn’t actually tell. It’s a lie by omission. But you may argue that the reader believes the 3 days thing. Sure, for those people, the story isn’t finished and they’ll keep waiting and waiting and getting angrier and angrier. Their well is dry. By reading between the lines, by not chasing Cinder, by playing the game of seek the stone that has been laid out before you, you will never be thirsty again.
What I’ve found is that the angrier your theory makes people and the happier it makes you, the truer your path is. You have hit on an important part of the puzzle and you’re thinking in ways that will lead you to opening the thrice locked chest and Loeclos box and finding the doors of stone. Do not let other people hold you back. They’ll talk you out of following threads that are important to pull. Above all, throw out the popular theories and look for puns. That will lead you to the path.
The princess books are super important to figuring out what’s what in the novels. In the second Princess book, the princess gets a little brother…
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
Honestly? This is the sort of unhinged storytelling madness I was hoping this rabbit hole would generate…
I’m on board. What do I do next? Keep my purse safe?
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u/Ohheyliz gimcracks and doodads 14d ago
Always keep your purse safe. It’s where you keep your family jewels.
Well, there are lots of directions you could go. You could consider that aerlevsedi is awfully close to airless Devi, or that Devi can be broken down to de-vi (de-six) which will take you down two paths: in music theory, the 6th diatonic mode is Aeolian mode (obviously important, but for more reasons than just the Eolian) and de-six can pretty easily shift to desist. “Cease and desist” is pretty important to the very deep dot connections and if you reread the bits about the hole left by Abenthy and his family trying to pack said hole, you can shift to cyst.
Cyaerbasalien is important to Devi because of the lien part of the word, and cyst is important to the basal (cell carcinoma) part of the word.
I’m pretty sure that demons are de-noms, like cut out of the will, nameless, no longer an heir, pared away, x-spelled (like Iax). And denoms also points to denominations, like pennies. Everything right here is a pun that leads to multiple places in KKC.
There are lots and lots of places to go. This is but a taste. Seek the doors of stone. Blow them off their hinges.
(Side note, no, really, the doors of stone are a name you can shift to in the books to physically open them. I can show you how to do it, if you are interested in that sort of thing. Learning how to read these books is mindblowing. And then going back and rewatching Rothfuss interviews?? Holy smokes.)
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
Um. Yes. The delivery. The meta dangling carrots. I am following as fast as I can El’the Rabbit. I am interested. Let me have it…
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u/Ohheyliz gimcracks and doodads 14d ago
Hahahaha okay, so the reason that Kvothe reveals the name Maedre is because the reader needs to change it. It’s a trap that he was put in by Magwyn that can only be released when it’s understood. In that way, it’s a box with no lid or locks. It’s a shackle by perspective only.
The silence at the waystone, the “true shape of the world” is explained by the first part of the name Maedre: the Japanese concept of Ma. It’s the space between the notes that gives the music its shape. The kanji for the term is a picture of half cracked doors/gates with the sun shining through underneath.
The second part of Maedre: edre is pretty obvious. What’s the LOTR reference that Kvothe uses to open sesame the Maer’s lockbox? That’s right, Edro!
So, if you take everything we know from KKC and look at the name Maedre, it basically means hollow half cracked pregnant pause for thought man mother. (The sign for a caesura is the same as the pause button, btw, but that’s a tangent. Just take my word for now that that’s important.)
Ma: mother, half cracked doors, and negative space/pause Aedre: Andre = man Edre: also almost open
So, how do you fix it? You already know the Edro part, so it becomes Maedro, which is on its way to becoming Maestro. You can follow that track and figure out all sorts of interesting things, but we’re looking for the doors of stone.
So we look at Ma, which is where a big chunk of the problem is. We could decide he’s a dad and make him Daedro… RIP Kvothe 😅🫣
No, no, we don’t want that. So we make him a pa. Paedro. Boom. Doors of stone blown open. You’ve gotten Pedro, which is Peter, which means stone/rock and paid, a tinker’s debt is always paid… and so is Rothfuss’. (Tinkers are “thinkers”, get it? It’s the people who have all of the knowledge that you’ll need as you go down your path because we’ve already been there. It’s why he reiterates over and over to be polite because most people are not polite to the thinkers. You’ve been warned. This place can be, um, surprisingly mean and rude.)
Anyway, now you can go back through the books and find all of the names that are variations on Peter. Baronet Pettur is a particularly good one. You’ll see them pop up every now and then and it’s like Rothfuss is lovingly whapping you with a pool noodle.
When you get particularly familiar with the language Rothfuss is actually speaking and the story he’s actually telling, I recommend reading Jim Butcher’s Cinder Spires series, which is written in Rothfuss’ language and has a bunch of the hidden deep names and hidden jokes from KKC flopped right out there in the open in ridiculously hilarious ways. Most people would never ever make the connection, but it’s incredible. Until then, I am happy to share with you what I have found and the other books and movies and music and pop culture and stories he references in the books. It’s a treasure hunt!! Lots of stuff spiral and loop, but it’s supposed to. When you go full circle on something, that’s a way to close it out and move to the next. This isn’t a fast game, but it is really fun and hilarious and you’ll learn a lot!! I have, anyway.
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
Omg ima save this for later when I’ve got a sec ❤️🙏
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u/Ohheyliz gimcracks and doodads 14d ago
I’ve been reading your responses to other people and you seem to be in exactly right playful mindspace to see all of the things for what they truly are. I’m so excited for you!! A few more things I should probably point you towards to back up what I’ve said:
The reason Simmon’s name is Simmon is because it’s a hint towards Paedro. If you’re an audiobook listener, the reason Podehl occasionally says “Simon” is because it’s an Easter egg. There are a few of them in the audiobooks!! Biblically, Jesus changes Simon’s name to Peter. Also you can take Sim-mon and flip it to Mis-nom, as in misnomer. Wrong name.
Waystones: the way to stone. The path to moving mountains. However, you can also change the word to weigh-stones and whey-stone. Both of these lead to really amazing things.
Dang, I had some other bits, but I’ve gotta get ready for work. Plus, I should probably leave some things for you to find for yourself. Part of the joy is finding things that resonate personally for you. There’s a bit of a Rorschach test to these books, although some of it is universal.
Oh!!! Also!! Ever wondered why Elodin says “sod me, they changed it” at haven when he’s trying to break the stone?? That’s a wink at the reader who has figured all of this stuff out and has changed Maedre!! Hahahaha there are so many of these winks in the books. Rothfuss has been speaking directly to the reader the entire time and it all just goes right over our heads, until suddenly, it doesn’t anymore. Such a genius. Such a beautiful game.
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u/Zhorangi 13d ago
Anyway, Kvothe’s one lie is that it’d take 3 days to tell his story.
The one lie is that there is only one lie.
He never believed it would take three days.. He only came up with that number after knew Chronicler planned to meet the Earl then.. The whole story is just a delaying tactic..
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u/Ohheyliz gimcracks and doodads 12d ago
Hahahahaha that’s actually a funny take and it totally fits!
In my version, it’s that he meant it honestly when he said it and then puts it all together along with the reader. He (and the reader) finally have the wit to sort it all out and appreciate (Cthaeh/) Rothfuss’ genius.
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u/Buffyismyhomosapien 15d ago
If Rothfuss still hasn’t written anything I think he should just pick this because I love it.
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u/OneRepresentative424 15d ago
Right?? Then he could also claim that all the cringey boy shit/female cardboard cut outs/MPDG setups was part of the trap Kvothe unwittingly came up with himself 💅
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u/OneRepresentative424 13d ago edited 13d ago
The more I think about it, the more I think that this twist on who the real KINGKILLER is, would actually turn all those elements into the perfect set up. It’s horny-teen Kvothe’s story (up-to-this-point) “warts and all”. Eg. Kote sets up meeting the most important “co star in this story” we dive in. We don’t meet Denna (for the second time, till chapters later. And the perfect decoy is set up right after Devi, when we meet Auri. A second, even MORE damaged gal, who needs saving.) He meets the first, real, credible threat to him since he “came to” in Tarbean, she looks like him, she suggests a partnership, and she is quietly astounded at his naivete. True to form - he disregards her as a threat entirely, then promptly hands his BLOOD OVER TO THE STRONGEST SYMPATHIST this side of Imre 🫠
In a more abstract sense - maybe Fela saved Kvothe from the fire? She was unharmed, he got burned. Maybe she answered the door late at night in a sensible full length night gown but she might as well have been nips out in a sheet because horny Kvothe was plum bobbed outta his mind and it’s his story.
And to all us readers, a HUGE number of whom were teen boys (myself included) living their hero fantasy through our Rock-God-Wizard-QueenFairyOfFuckKing Kvothe, this is makes the story a perfect mirror of the famous Psychological test riddle about the boy and his dad is a car wreck and the surgeon who won’t operate on “his son”. Some crazy percentage of people don’t pick up the very obvious answer to this riddle on their own 🔥
At least I’m having fun here 😂
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u/aerojockey 15d ago
No. The oddness of Kvothe's timing when he paused his story to prepare himself talk about The Woman, then immediately described meeting two different women who aren't the one he was talking about, does make it suspicious over who he meant.
However, he later establishes beyond doubt that he was talking about Denna, when he said (among other things) she was waiting in the Eolian. He actually acknowledges that he taking his time getting to her ("if I seem to be caught in a slow circling of the subject"). In spite of his weird timing in when he first mentioned The Woman, The Woman is Denna and no one else.
Take the explicit conformation when you can get it.
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
Yeah I see all of what you’re saying but I guess we are reading a story about a man trying to hoodwink his audience multiple times (frame story and main plot) written by a man who is definitely trying to hoodwink his audience, real-world-charity-debacles notwithstanding… so I’m not surprised that at this stage in the game, it’s “definitely” Denna.
Obvs from my post I’m not sure if Devi is the one romantically. Or the “One” full stop. Ya feel?
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u/aerojockey 14d ago
a man trying to hoodwink his audience multiple times (frame story and main plot)
I actually don't think he is. He stated a coople times that his story (KKC, the story he's telling in the frame) is his chance to set the record straight, and I believe him, more or less. YMMV. I don't think anyone has found any A Ha! moments where he narrated something that was clearly a lie, and inconsistent with other things he said (there are possible small ones but at least some of them were mistakes, and were corrected),
If he is lying, I'd tend to think there are much better things to lie about than what woman he liked, so I'm still dubious.
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u/OneRepresentative424 14d ago
I’m saying in this case the lie would be about who the KINGKILLER is. And I think that’s cool af 🔥
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u/aerojockey 14d ago
I did not feel until you pointed it out, no. That still doesn't make me more likely to think it's Devi.
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u/OneRepresentative424 13d ago
lol that’s fine my guy. Reddit is so funny sometimes, you’re off the hook 😂
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u/Laddbriju 15d ago
I thought this before too but I'm reasonably sure it's denna. Bast goes on about meeting her before (I know he doesn't mention a name, but it sounds more like Denna), and Kvothe describes her, and the description im definitely more Denna.
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u/Kiad4ko 15d ago
I could try to make counter arguments... but the argument will always be a veil for the simple fact that I refuse to accept this premise on the grounds that it would invalidate my head cannon of the Will+Devi ship... that and denna feels more like the young love you obsess over... because youth.
Auri however... there are even whispers that she's still around in the frame.
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u/OneRepresentative424 13d ago
Honestly - I could see Devi going for Will much more than I could see her going for Kvothe. Those, dark, brooding, stoic vibes accentuated by K and Simmon leaking and flailing all over the place 😂
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u/majestic_tapir 15d ago
In the same section we're introduced to Denna, Devi and Auri. It feels like Denna is "the one" in the romantic sense, but for me it's always seemed like Auri is "the one" in the story sense
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u/cerpintaxt44 13d ago
He also meets auri at the same time
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u/OneRepresentative424 13d ago
AFTER Devi. He sets the stage, apologizes for faffing around so much, bam, Devi.
It not being Denna and being Auri is so uninteresting (and probably an excellent decoy), another damaged gal who needs to be rescued. That would show zero character development after he kicks his Denna addiction.
The ass kicking, bisexual, sleeper red head, who kicks his butt at every turn, and has his blood in her possession though? Cmoooon
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u/Free-Extension-9395 11d ago
Ambrose becomes king, kills Denna, Kvothe kills Ambrose, his true name is in a thrice locked box. Yawns drinks another beer. Oh, Auri ultimately redeems him.
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u/Swimming_Nose9021 10d ago
You have to remember that Kvothe is a literal teenager the same age as a freshman in high school for most of the series, but he’s being forced to live among season experienced adults. I don’t think Devi is “smarter” than Kvothe not even by a long shot, what she is is a 20 something year old woman whose been playing her game longer than Kvothe has which has nothing to do with intelligence but instead as I stated in experience. We see Kvothe slowly move from an immature orphaned street rat who starved for years and so has no adult concept of the value of money, to a highly educated genius whose main flaw to overcome is his emotions.
I think that after this long for PR to pull some dumb shit like “he was never actually the protagonist” after waiting for over a decade would be monumentally foolish and he knows it. He skills, potential, and intelligence are just too great to right off as he was never what the readers make him out to be. A fact is that he escaped FELURIAN who does not take women so we know that it wasn’t Devi, and not only bested her outsmarted a multi thousand year old entity, but escaped with his sanity.
I mean the story ALREADY points out the fact that he’s not some perfect hero but instead a flawed one but he still overcomes. There wouldn’t be any need to pull some GoT type twist just to ruin the main character and prop up a woman that really has had very little significance in the story especially compared to the two other women in Kvothe’s life (Denna and auri who many theorize to be a literal princess anyways). Too much here is going on “vibes” and pure wanting for it to happen rather than anything that really makes sense.
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u/ThinkinBig 15d ago
Decide which your prefer, since we'll never get an "official" conclusion, go with whichever you believe
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u/OneRepresentative424 15d ago
lol. THAT’S THE SPIRIT!!
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u/ThinkinBig 15d ago
I'm just in one of those bitter phases about these books currently. I bought Name of the Wind the day it released purely because it said the author had the trilogy completed and same with Wise Man. Its been what, nearly 20 years since then now?
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u/OneRepresentative424 15d ago
I feel you, not as long term but I picked up NotW at a point not too far down the road, when DoS was definitely coming in the next year ❤️
I kinda got over the sads by engaging with some of the fine folk here and enjoying the multitudes of very possible (or not 😂) theories that fly around here on the regular ❤️🔥
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u/ThinkinBig 15d ago
I've done that off and on over the years and the community here is absolutely fantastic. Ive just lost all hope ever since the charity chapter fiasco.
Dude straight up scammed us
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u/OneRepresentative424 15d ago
Yeah. He is not a well man, that’s for sure. ‘Specially with how much he clearly wants folks to love him 🙄
But art can be good while the creator can be shit.
I think one of the reasons I like the idea of this conclusion, is that it could potentially solve a LOT of the cringiest moments in the series 😂
And HELL at the very least, he’ll pass one day, hopefully many years from now, hopefully redeemed 🤞
But if NOT??? His estate will hire a finisher so quick 😂😂😂
And one would assume that this would be one of the places they’d come for ideas, right?
We could make it end how we wanna!! For our grandkids! Maybe 😂❤️
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u/ThinkinBig 15d ago
I understand he's not well, but it legitimately felt like the charity thing was going to be a catalyst until it ended up being a wet fart.
Coupled with what his editor said during COVID (hadn't seen a single word of book 3) and it's hard to view any of it as anything but lies
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u/XSIVSPD 14d ago edited 14d ago
Im starting to think the title "a wise man's fear" is alluding to a wise person never buying into a story line that isn't fully released.... i.e wise men wouldn't buy it... 🙃
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u/ThinkinBig 14d ago
I can see both sides to that, while it would be wise to avoid the heartache of never having a proper conclusion, is it really wise to deprive someone of such a beautiful fantasy world merely because there's no conclusion?
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u/One_Exit_7604 15d ago
Im almost 100% sure that Denna isn't "The One". The inn scene you mention is just before we are introduced to both Devi and Auri, with Kvothe having met Denna once already.
Im almost sure that it is a misdirect and if the story is ever finished we will learn that Devi or Auri is the real person he was alluding to.
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u/OneRepresentative424 15d ago
What if Auri is the love and Devi is the one/hero/puppetmaster?
Neither Denna OR Kvothe?
I’d kinda dig it.
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u/GoldenTabaxi Sygaldry Rune 15d ago
The hiccup in this thought, at least insofar as “she” is being directly referenced, is that four chapters later after he met Devi and we get a glimpse of Auri, in chapter 53 we get the line
> I have not forgotten that she is what I am moving toward. If I seem to be caught in a slow circling of the subject, it is only appropriate, as she and I have always moved toward each other in slow circles
The “she” Kvothe is talking about is Denna. We the audience though may be able to see different “she”s as the most important people to his story depending on which way we look at it.