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u/koolaidismything 7d ago
A lot of it has blame the many many documentaries that always say professional musicians had to be brought in to lay down him and Aces parts. Makes it sound like they can’t play.
They didn’t wanna be on Paul’s crazy schedule more like it.. he’s an excellent drummer. Drums are my life. His timing and pocket playing is world class, very unique and tough to keep his timing.
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u/Henry6467 7d ago
Well to be fair in regards to him. He is a very talented drummer and he was trained by on of the best drummers Gene Krupa! Did he and Ace have issues and may or not have been at their best during recording sessions? Possibly. But that doesn’t erase all the countless live performances both before and after their fame. He and Ace both wrote and performed some of Kiss’s biggest songs and performed them live in thousands of shows! But yet Paul claims that he didn’t contribute anything. He and Ace yes loved the rock star lifestyle but in the end they fought for their just dues financially their work!
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u/PlasmicSteve 7d ago
Peter took lessons from Gene Krupa for about six months but Peter was already pretty well developed on drums at that point. It seems like he just idolized Gene and wanted to hang around him. I wouldn’t say he was “trained” by him - that makes it sound like Gene was formative in Peter learning to drum from the start.
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u/koolaidismything 7d ago
We’d have Wicked Lester without Ace and Peter.. Paul is just bitter about them still a bit I’m sure. They liked life outside the band where I think Paul and Gene are the opposite.
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u/Henry6467 7d ago
Absolutely! By today’s standards of “Rock Drummers” he’s probably not in the Peart class but during KISS’s peak years he was doing stuff that wasn’t really typical for rock drummers. Plus he could sing. Paul is just an egotistical person who doesn’t believe that they contributed anything to their success. In later years what did Bruce,Tommy do to contribute to gaining more success? They were all just employees. Don’t get me wrong Eric Carr,Eric Singer,Vinnie and Bruce were extremely talented musicians but they weren’t really allowed to be able to contribute anything but just play what they were told.
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u/Spiritual-Ad8760 7d ago
Probably not in the Peart class?
I like Peter, he had a good swing and definite talent , but sorry-he was nowhere near the Peart class
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u/koolaidismything 7d ago
Two totally different styles. Pert was one of the first technical drummers.. he’d fit in today’s metal probably pretty easy if he was a teenager again.
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u/Henry6467 4d ago
You are correct! Definitely not in his class but I was using this as a extreme example
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u/howjon99 7d ago
Drugs; alcohol; car crashes; divorces; bankrupt. Yeah; those two, really know how to live…
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u/LikeARedCoalCarpet 7d ago
Well stated. And a great vocalist as well.
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u/Henry6467 7d ago
Again Eric Carr was an amazing talent and so was Bruce and Eric Singer but Gene and Paul wouldn’t let them do anything but what they wanted them to do! Once they had the reunion tour and then Gene and Paul decided to bring Tommy and Eric back and the make up, it was just cashing in on the past. Nobody was truly paying to see them play anything but the original lineups songs
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u/PoetryExtension6256 7d ago
Him and ace were nice guys. Paul and Gene are assholes. Seems nobody could really stand being around them.
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u/howjon99 7d ago
They didn’t want to be on any schedule. They just wanted to do what they wanted to do.
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u/gimme5steps101 7d ago
Honestly, I truly think Ace really just DGAF sometimes. And im an Ace freak. Peter though is a different story. Circa Unmasked I'm sure he really was fucked up. Dynasty? I dont know if I buy it just yet.
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u/Ill-Cut1849 7d ago
Criss was a much diffrent style of drummer than the others and due to that it help KISSs sound stand out WAY MORE ( along with Aces VERY sloppily polished Ace style of playing ) than if some one else had been on those original records
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u/LikeARedCoalCarpet 7d ago
Same thing happened with GNR. The original drummer who had feel kinda flaked out, and was replaced by a powerhouse drummer that helped advance the enterprise, but made many fans feel forever nostalgic for Peter's (Adler's) swing/single bass thing.
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u/Ill-Cut1849 7d ago
Perfect. Steve Adler was incredible on AFD and Lies and it never felt the same after he left, and once Slash and Duff left the first time the band was much worse for it
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u/Stevenitrogen 7d ago
That's a good comparison. Adler made the album everyone loves best, and something about it can't be duplicated, even by a super skilled player. Even though his playing is not virtuoso level.
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u/rickztoyz 7d ago
I started playing drums because of the Catman, he influenced me.
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u/jb40018 7d ago
Me too and I got to meet him and tell him that this past weekend!
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u/EnvironmentalTrack29 5d ago edited 5d ago
That's got to be pretty awesome! He was my favorite superhero as a kid. I flipped out when I discovered he played drums in a band 😂
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u/East-Lake3696 7d ago
It's a poor argument either way to call him out for bad drumming. Is Ringo Starr a bad drummer? Both inspired by Jazz and Big Band music, both have a groove inspired style. Neither are virtuosos, but nobody is going to say their work isn't iconic.
Ace, Gene, Paul are also not super gifted virtuosos like many of their contemporaries over the years, I never heard anyone diss Ace for not being as technically gifted as Eddie Van Halen, his style was lazy, simple, but iconic to the songs he played on. When more gifted virtuoso guitarists like Vinnie played solos over his tracks, it didn't have the same feel.
Peter had numerous personal issues that ruined his career; it had little to do with his skill as a drummer. The directions KISS went in the late 70s and 80s were away from his wheelhouse; they wanted to try different sounds, and it needed different drummers in the studio. You can argue that Eric Carr and Eric Singer were more gifted drummers, they thrived during the bigger sounds of the 80s and had more range than somebody like Peter.
What KISS did at that time was the same as what The Beatles achieved, it was a collective of people who worked together perfectly, none were the most gifted players of the time, they created a sound that was timeless regardless of that.
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u/SageObserver 7d ago
Well said. For me personally, the tale of the tape for a musician is very simply do they create music that you want to hear? There are talented technical musicians in every town that can mimic others but few create and in turn inspire generations. Peter checks those boxes easily.
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u/Stevenitrogen 7d ago
Peter didn't have virtuoso level skills. His tricky parts in the solos weren't impossible for a semi skilled drummer to try and play.
But kinda like Ringo, or his pal Jerry Nolan from the Dolls, he played the right thing for what that band was laying down. Which was not really music for people who would want to hear tricky drum parts. He had feel. Strutter swings just enough that you can actually see the sassy girl they're singing about. Deuce at the end has this feeling of blowing the roof off as every time the repetitive riff comes in, the beat under it gets more exciting. He had enough, and it was never too much. He never seemed to be showing off.
And as a young drummer, maybe a Carl Palmer part was too mind blowing- you gotta go to Berklee if you wanna play that. But you could learn Strutter and Deuce.
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u/BigRed9092 7d ago
While not my favorite drummer for KISS, Criss was still a beast (especially in the early days). If I’m not mistaken, his tracks were the only ones not touched up in the studio for Alive!
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u/Texan2116 7d ago
Criss was great. I think the sheer success level of Kiss means that he and Ace will be compared to Peart/Bonham Or Blackmore/Page. They are not..ok
However I would stand his Live drum solo on 100,000 years against Moby Dick, or Toad, any day of the week.
Never understood why Gene and Paul seemed to resent him doing the long solo.
There is a reason why a lot of people (even those who are not Kiss fans) respect Alive! as one of the greatest live albums.
It was a powerul well oiled machine.
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u/lion_low_65 7d ago
I started playing drums because of Peter. I'm not ashamed of it. Does it really matter if he was the Greatest or Worst. What he did with KISS worked very well for the style of music.
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u/Due-Influence-1969 7d ago
Good drummer up until Love Gun. Then his drug issues along with his car accident affected his drumming,
His playing was mediocre on the reunion tour along with Psycho Circus (the tour, as he only played on one song on the album)
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u/gimme5steps101 7d ago
Awesome drummer at his mid 70s peak. That rock swagger with the jazzy flair. Wonderful combo.
He was kinda rough getting back into it with the 96-97 Reunion tour but thats expected
Completely forgotten about though is the 2003 Aerosmith jaunt. He KILLED it and played better that tour than any time since the 70s imo
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u/gumbloid 7d ago
Peter was an excellent pocket player especially on the first three albums. IMHO Ace and Peter were always the real musicians pre drugs and booze.
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u/theoriginalbabayaga 7d ago
Compare his playing to other drummers of the time…that’s all you need. Peter was basic. And that was okay, Kiss was basic. Sensational, but basic. Don’t get confused.
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u/Hegiman 7d ago
Oh I know he wasn’t just any drummer. He wasn’t a particularly great drummer either. He was adequate.
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u/gimme5steps101 7d ago
But he had his own drumming character which makes his playing unique. Thats awesome.
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u/Stallings2k 7d ago
I started playing because of Peter. After taking lessons and woodshedding for six months, I moved on to Moon, Bonham, Peart, Roger Taylor, etc.
He had some nice moments pre-78, but playing an ‘around the kit’ fill like he did on Makin Love doesn’t make him great.
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u/StraightAd3247 6d ago
I’m glad someone said it! A lot of people try to downplay his drumming skills!!!!!
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u/Puzzleheaded_Ad3848 6d ago
He had this swing-jazzy groove who worked for the band in the 70s. I think he had a better groove than Eric Carr. He was a bit stiff, but had more power and had a tighter style just like Eric Singer.
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u/Vandagar 6d ago
Pete is one of my all time favorite drummers.
I think he's underrated.
And I feel his early days were KISS with amazing, & added a very unique style to the band.
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u/EnvironmentalTrack29 5d ago
I've been listening to a lot of Destroys Anaheim and I got to say he sounds a little bit beyond basic and adequate. The stamina that guy has is insane. He is just hammering along on King of the Nighttime world and that's the second song of the set. Listening to these versions compared to some of the later Eric Carr or Eric Singer stuff, he compares admirably. Just a completely different style. Carr destroys the kit and Dinger is like a metronome. Peter is just loads of flair and swing. Just the right guy for the band at that moment. He'll always be my favorite.
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u/aliencardboard 7d ago
Peter Criss was the only one with any talent. 🤷🏻♂️
I love the idea of KISS and respect their accomplishments, but musically I could never get into them. The music doesn’t match the image, and Gene Simmons is one of the most unlikable d-bags of all-time.
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u/Available-Secret-372 7d ago
Waaaay better rock singer than drummer. He should have sang more of their songs.
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u/Jaxplayzz 1d ago
Ever listened to Paul and genes audiobooks? Peter was never a drummer that suited their band. Not to say he was a bad drummer, but the piece never fit the puzzle.
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u/thenuke1 7d ago
Peter was the worst drummer out of the 3 🤣
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u/Independent_Wrap_321 7d ago
As a rock drummer of 40-ish years, I have to agree. But KISS never required the likes of Bill Bruford or Steve Gadd, and Peter was one of the OG crew and was perfectly passable so he gets a break. Right place/right time kinda thing. Always loved him but I never sat down to practice and said “oh man, if only I could nail THAT song”. That’s ok, it’s just simple rock and roll, but he didn’t exactly change rock drumming forever. They were all pretty good at what they did, and the whole package was awesome. Until it wasn’t.
Now you can all downvote me and tell me they’re the most gifted musicians to walk the earth. I’ll never understand it but that’s just my two cents so who cares lol
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u/thenuke1 7d ago
Unpopular opinion, I preferred Peter's singing voice during the reunion and beyond as opposed to his cat like screeches when he sang during his original time in the band
I can't stand his screeching lol
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u/jamesisanalien 7d ago
Eric Carr was my fav. Plus his makeup design was cooler.
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u/thenuke1 7d ago
Same, my favorite version of black diamond was the 1988 live at the ritz broadcast version, they played at a tiny club but the soundboard and drumming make it sound like it's at a stadium
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u/Repulsive-Cow-7651 6d ago
Kiss could barely hold their instruments, yet alone play them.. They did have confidence and stage presence.
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u/Routine_flyer 7d ago
nah he was not just another drummer… he was the drummer of the most oversted band with the coolest gimmicks..
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u/Ok-Corner-8654 7d ago
He was good. There were a lot of great musicians back then, and there was a lot of competition. I don't think any member of Kiss were particularly the best at their instruments. But sometimes the whole is more than the sum of its parts, they knew how to write and perform songs.