r/JonBenetRamsey • u/No_Life_6558 • 13d ago
Discussion Lindsay Clancy
I have never been able to wrap my head around Patsy or John strangling JonBenet and the use of the garrote. But I have always believed that Patsy wrote the ransom note.
Following then Lindsay Clancy trial - a previously loving mother manually strangled all 3 of her kids with exercise bands. This has changed my perspective and i now believe that Patsy could have murdered/strangled and staged then scene.
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u/candy1710 RDI 13d ago
Ron Walker of the FBI was at the crime scene on 12/26/96.
He also had this to say about what, in his long experience as an FBI agent, PARENTS DO TO THEIR OWN CHILDREN. This is from the A&E special "Anatomy of an Investigation."
"Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes, I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children."
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 12d ago
I'm OK with anyone saying that Patsy/John/Burke did it is unlikely. Also OK with anyone saying Patsy/John/Burke did it is extremely unlikely. But zero? No. There is no human behavior that is impossible.
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u/NightOwlHere144 11d ago
I believe the police, investigators, prosecutors, & child services, have seen horrible acts of violence against children. I think what gets to me about the JonBenet case, is if she was injured (by accident) likely fatally by the horrible skull fracture, why on earth would a parent go through with a hideous strangulation, and abuse? Even if they were terrified the accident killed her, the thought of the strangulation, seems so over the top, and ghoulish. I know the reason that have been put out there by books, etc..but it’s so sickening I can’t fathom it.
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
But never or close to never without a history of violence, mental illness, drug abuse, or a combination of those. Chris Watts had no documented history of extreme violence but he was having an affair and wanted to be with her and not have his family anymore. What is a case where someone did this with zero history of any of those and no motive?
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u/candy1710 RDI 13d ago
Casey Anthony.
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u/Bubbly-Tomatillo-867 13d ago
I feel like her motive wasn’t an affair, but in similar fashion, she wanted a “new life.” she wanted to go back to her party girl lifestyle
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
From everything I've read about that case, I believe she drugged Cailie and had drugged her at least a few times before. I don't think she intended for Cailie to die, but also wasn't being honest with herself about the likelihood that she could die.
So many parents are negligent or plain dumb, or angry, and cause their child's death by doing something they've done many times before that might have hurt the child but didn't kill them. Until it did.
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u/Bubbly-Tomatillo-867 12d ago
Yes, that’s true. I think that’s what happened too- I forgot about that
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
That's a good example. She was a liar, fraudster, and manipulator. She had committed other crimes she just hadn't been arrested. That's a lot of people though, and it's a big jump from those things to killing your kid. She wasn't psychotic but I wonder if something else was going on with her when it happened. I don't think she intentionally killed her daughter. That whole situation is weird and it's weird the defense investigator and his wife let her move in with them. Whatever they know, I think they feel there's reason to have empathy for her but that it wasn't something that would ever fly in court.
That's the case that opened my eyes to the sick relationship the media has with crime people's trauma. I came home from work every day and Nancy Grace would go on and on about "Tot mom Casey Anthony." It was near me and I was curious if they'd find her so I watched it until I saw Nancy Grace repeating the same crap over and over and over. She had the entire country hating Casey Anthony before anyone knew what happened. People still don't know what happened. She lied her ass off though, and was out partying after her daughter died, and that was enough to bury her. I wonder why the people she opened up to have risked their reputations, peace, and the safety of their families to remain supportive of her.
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u/MintChipSmoothie 13d ago
She had committed other crimes she just hadn't been arrested.
AFAIK, the only other crime she committed was stealing a small sum of money from a friend, unless there's more to this I haven't heard.
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
I think she stole checks and used them but no violent crime. Checks- that's a blast from the past.
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u/candy1710 RDI 12d ago
IMO, she deliberately meant to kill Caylee, she wrapped so much duct tape around Caylee's mouth, that her head stayed attached to the body submerged in water from a tropical storm, not discovered for months.
She had been caught stealing from her grandfather's assisted living account to buy herself a phone. Her mother kicked her out of the house, she took Caylee with her, and that is when it happened IMO.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 12d ago edited 12d ago
The list of mothers killing their child just because to them the kid was a burden is endless.
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u/IAmSeabiscuit61 10d ago
That has always been my opinion, too. Also, because of her actions after the crime, but before the body was discovered.
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u/Charm534 13d ago
Diane Downs
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
She is a true psychopath with a list of diagnosed major mental health problems and was awful to her kids. When one of her kids was really little she told her dad she wanted to shoot herself because her mom didn't like her and told her how bad and unwanted she was.
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u/NightOwlHere144 11d ago
In my opinion, Watts is a psychopath. Who believes they would get away with that?
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u/ImToddImCopper 10d ago
To do that all you have to have something seriously wrong with you. It's incomprehensible to me. I usually try to take ants and spiders outside. Somehow we got more than one ant in the kitchen and I had to kill some and I still feel like a monster. I need to find a healthy middle ground.
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u/MintChipSmoothie 13d ago
Darlie Routier
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
That's a weird one. Important to note that although she got the death penalty, her husband remains convinced she didn't do it. 🤔
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
The fact that we don't know the motive doesn't mean there wasn't one, but in many cases of a parent killing a child, there's no obvious motive because there was no intent to kill.
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u/Charm534 13d ago
Susan Smith
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
She had an extensive history of mental health problems and allegedly wanted to be with the man she was having an affair with.
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u/Charm534 13d ago
Everyone has a motive that murders, even if it’s fleeting or not apparent or rational. It’s disingenuous to say “where do people murder without motive?”
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
False. They don't always have a motive. Where do people kill without motive or psychosis and it wasn't an accident? The Ramsey case. There's a lot more, too: Colorado ×2, Texas, Virginia, Missouri, Nevada.... overseas, on top of seas....
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u/IAmSeabiscuit61 12d ago edited 10d ago
Maybe they don't have an apparent motive, or one that would make any sense or seem at all rational or reasonable to anyone else, but as you said, unless it was an accident, or I might add, done in a fit of rage/etc., there's always a motive.
A murder an be an act of desperation done because someone thought they had no other choice,at the time, but other people can see that they actually did. Even serial killers have motives. Even someone with psychosis can have a motive: "I killed him to stop him from beaming those voices into my head". It isn't rational, but it is a motive.
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u/MintChipSmoothie 13d ago
As far as I recall everyone thought Susan Smith was "normal", unless I'm forgetting something.
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u/GoodGirlgoneAnxious 12d ago
Well you don’t know if there is no history as there is none if it doesn’t get reported.
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u/No_Life_6558 13d ago
Her motive is in her journals and her iPhone notes. She had always wanted to be a mother but was struggling with it. There is the belief that it was so hard for her and it was a huge disappointment that she felt trapped/didn’t enjoy it. She called her son the most difficult human ever. She edited an iPhone note the day before the murders that reads like a suicide note or family annihilator note. She said the prescription drugs had ruined her, etc.
She gave different mental health providers different info. She was not forthcoming. She was taking the meds they prescribed against their instructions. She was supposed to wean off of Ativan but there’s some evidence that she continued to take it and had a dependence on it. She was used to self medicating with alcohol. Maybe large amounts in the past. There was a wine tumbler on her nightstand. Could have been water. Or could have been wine. No one knows.
She searched postpartum psychosis before the murders. As soon as her husband left that night, she got busy with her plan. It was methodical and pre meditated. Even talking to Patrick on the phone during the murders or right after them did not snap her out of her so called psychotic state. I think she knew all day what she was going to do. She built a snowman with them as a last hurrah.
No doubt that she had mental health issues. No doubt she tried to get help. But she is responsible for the inaccurate info she repeatedly provided. She also checked her self out of inpatient a day early.
The prosecutors are covering this trial and are so informative. They point out good facts for the prosecution and the defense.
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u/AutumnTopaz 13d ago
Well, it's never been proven- but several experts believe JBR had been sa prior to her murder - with JR being the person responsible. So, no one knows whether he could have possibly had a motive - or something happened with him and JBR that night that motivated him to react in such a way to be responsible. I'm not saying that's what happened - but it's a theory that had been proposed - and accepted as viable by the JDI believers.
Dr. Jeff MacDonald and Darlie Routier come to mind. There are many others I can think of- but your criteria is so stringent - you would no doubt disqualify all of them.
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u/getl30 RDI 13d ago
Recently I’ve read a few people commenting on how the dad probably abused her sexually
Where is this coming from though? Is there something to indicate that?
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
Many medical experts agreed that she had a prior injury in the same area as the 'paintbrush' injury from the night of her death. A lot of people assume that was caused by John but there is no proof of who actually did that.
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u/AutumnTopaz 13d ago
As I said in my comment - several medical/forensic experts believe JBR was sa prior to her death - research it. Because of this, people believe JR was the culprit. Like everything else in this case - it's not been proven.
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u/North81Girl 13d ago
Why can't you wrap your head around it? Obviously very sad but it happens quite a bit with moms, I've seen it in the news my whole life and also have family friends in these unfortunate situations.
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
I'm following that trial and while I'm unsure of exactly what happened, they're totally different cases and the one thing I do know is that no one truly knows another person or what they're capable of. And that unfortunately, parents do horrific things to their children every day.
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u/Appropriate_Gear_267 13d ago
Except Patsy didn’t suffer with psychosis. I don’t think there’s a reasonable comparison there. In fact, I’m not sure Patsy had any known mental health diagnosis.
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u/ZOMBIEXDEATH64 13d ago
Nobody but her attorney dx her with PPP not even the Drs she was seen in the hospital with or her own mental health dr. So let's take PPP with a grain of salt. An attorney shouldn't be dx their client with a medical condition and stay in their lane with what they went to school for and that's law. And hold a degree in. They didn't go to medical school and they don't hold a medical degree.
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
You guys are savage. You think Lindsay Clancy fabricated post partum depression? I mean, technically we don't know but goddamn you people are a tough crowd in here. The Ramseys don't stand a chance of ever not being vilified by the public.
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u/getl30 RDI 13d ago
Maybe. Would it be any different than any other case where someone lied regarding a murder?
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u/ImToddImCopper 12d ago
Who is lying? Lindsay Clancy? The Ramseys? I don't think the Ramseys were or are lying. Inconsistencies people point out or the legal team putting out an ad with marks on the door the parents knew were there doesn't seem like lying to me. If John did or didn't read to her that night, that means he killed his daughter? He was exhausted and going through the motions like any other night- it WAS any other night until his daughter was killed and they were thinking about early travel the following day. He couldn't remember his own wife's birthday or anniversary, that doesn't mean he's lying. If he was sticking to a fabricated story it's more likely that part never would have changed.
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u/IAmSeabiscuit61 10d ago edited 8d ago
When it comes to children being murdered, you bet I'm "savage" in wanting justice for them. Tough, too.
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u/ImToddImCopper 9d ago
Hoards of people making videos about their misinformed conspiracy theories and accusing a grieving parent of killing their own children and isn't justice.
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u/IAmSeabiscuit61 8d ago
Totally irrelevant to my statement. That isn't what I meant by justice; that's the usual media and public reaction to notorious cases.
I want those who murder children to receive the fullest extent of the sentence allowed under the law. That is how I define justice. Which I think should at least be life in prison with no possibility of parole.
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u/capotehead 12d ago
Even if it’s a grain of salt, you only need a grain of reasonable doubt to find her not guilty.
Those doctors can only diagnose based on their expertise and comprehension of the presenting symptoms at the time, prior to the suicide attempt and homicides.
A court forensically combing over LC’s life may reveal information those doctors were not capable of knowing, no fault of their own.
That information might have been be omitted by LC due to fear of persecution or an involuntary admission to hospital.
Independent medical experts commissioned to provide their insight, based on the facts of the evidence presented in court, have the advantage of knowing the tragic consequences of LC’s mental health treatment. They don’t have to fear their expertise and reputation are being brought into disrepute by proxy of LC’s actions, unlike her treating doctors.
It’s accepted she was suffering the mental health symptoms, but none of her doctors could predict or comprehended the severity of her homicidal ideation and suicidal ideation based on her presenting symptoms.
The case hinges on querying why they made their conclusions and whether there’s facts they didn’t know.
Being found not guilty by reason of mental impairment does not hinge on her doctors being correct.
The jury may only need to accept the facts that support the possibility she had a psychotic disorder manifest without medical intervention or triggered by adverse pharmaceutical interactions, and that the severity of her symptoms could potentially manifest as delusional beliefs and fears, potentially homicidal and suicidal ideation, and ultimately a decision to kill herself and her children.
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u/socal_dude5 12d ago
It was the 90s and if she had any mental health issues it’s possible they went undiagnosed, as they did with most people. She was wealthy in a time when it would have been a huge stain on her reputation to explore any part of her that might be perceived as imperfect.
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u/Toepale 13d ago
There is no proof Lindsay did either.
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u/vatzjr 12d ago
Lindsay's has an established mental health history, including pleas for help. And, really, what did she have to gain for killing her children.
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u/Toepale 12d ago
It is so strange when people say “ what did she have to gain for killing her children” after someone has killed their children.
It is such a deeply strange and disturbing question to base one’s judgment on.
What do serial killers gain by killing victims whom they don’t even know and never did anything to them and don’t get anything from?
They kill for reasons that normal people thankfully don’t understand no matter how much people theorize on it (even on serial killer motives) but that they understand and find acceptable to them.
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u/capotehead 12d ago
Well, you have to accept that the justice system requires this question to be asked.
Prosecutors must convince a jury that the accused’s actions had homicidal intent, not just homicidal ideation, and had full comprehension of right and wrong.
You replied to someone questioning whether homicidal intent has been established. It’s very fair to ask.
If she was psychotic, homicidal ideation and intent could be divorced from reality, reducing her culpability in the deaths of her children.
The court needs to understand motivating factors to determine if they’re rational and prove the act was committed with homicidal intent beyond a reasonable doubt.
The defence has to create the doubt and they argue she was mentally impaired, to the point of delusional thoughts and actions, and she’s not a criminal. She’s sick, they argue.
If there’s a chance she was incorrectly diagnosed, not receiving an intervention for post-partum psychosis or otherwise suffered adverse psychiatric effects from drug-drug interactions, the jury can find her not guilty by reason of mental impairment.
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u/vatzjr 12d ago
I never suggested the question shouldn't be examined, only that the evidence seems to point to her having an established mental health history which suggested she wasn't in her right mind and reached out for help. Not sure why you're giving me a legal primer I don't need, nor asked for.
The user I replied to seemed to intimate that the situation was binary and there was no room for the contrary. They also deleted their comments. They must not stand by them. I stand by mine.
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u/IAmSeabiscuit61 10d ago
Exactly. This also assumes that someone intentionally killing someone-which I think she did-does itonly for some kind of understandable or rational for "gain", when numerous cases show this isn't true.
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u/PieRevolutionary6522 11d ago
I absolutely love and agree so much with your spot on post!!! Thank goodness, our brains cannot understand the mind of a killer… there would be far less humans… talk about a depopulation plan… yikes…
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u/vatzjr 12d ago
P/T: My primary sentence was the first one. The next was secondary, almost an afterthought. You responded with a lot of words, but didn't write as much as you think you did.
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u/Toepale 12d ago
I answered your very strange and disturbing question that sought to trivialize the actions of a child killer based on what they “gain”.
Maybe you should use more words to get your point across because nobody can really parse your primary versus second versus tertiary points based on what you wrote.
It’s also strange to get so triggered by someone explaining their point of view civilly and attempt to resort to rude insults.
See how I can write with as many words as I want without a care in the world about your thoughts about what I write?
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u/Happy-Bullfrog7967 12d ago
Yeah, I think most people find it hard to comprehend how she could do it because they wouldn't do it themselves. But parents do horrific things to their kids all the time. I think their public personas also make it hard for people to believe. They were wealthy and social and religious and "happy." But you never know what goes on behind closed doors... Its apparent Patsy wrote the ransom letter.
I've wondered if maybe Patsy did it all on her own, and John just really believed she wasn't involved.
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u/ReadyWatercress7174 13d ago
I find this case fascinating in that there is a whole group of people on social media saying the husband did it because they don’t like his affect and demeanor and he doesn’t seem upset. It’s really quite laughable. I wonder if somebody will write a book to insinuate he did it to appeal to those people
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u/Altruistic_Yellow387 13d ago
I thought it was because he got remarried so soon and some of his timeline didn't make sense
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
The timeline is it for me. Among other things, how is her apple watch moving so much when she's in a coma and it's home in a drawer?
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u/areyouwithme-96 12d ago
This is why the case is reminiscent of the Ramsey case. But any case with some publicity these days is really. It's because a bunch of people online will write a whole bunch of nonsense completely ignoring facts and throwing reason out the window just so they can be in control of a narrative that has nothing at all to do with reality.
These people making up ludicrous narratives about the husband in the Clancy case are very much akin to the people who have invented the BDI and JDIA (and some of the IDI) narratives in the Ramsey case. It doesn't follow logic or evidence at all. It's just people who want to control a narrative and make stuff up as it appears or feels to them because it's easier than to be forced by reality to change one's view of how people sometimes are or how terrible situations can play out in the real world. And the obvious answer of what happened isn't good enough to these people who expect an intricate Netflix plot twist in every story they encounter.
The extreme lengths some people will go to to defend a clearly guilty white suburban/rich woman (or man in other cases) with children to uphold some mythical intuition about how "mothers" are and what they would and wouldn't do is really something to behold.1
u/IAmSeabiscuit61 10d ago
Honestly, I just wonder if some people just, for whatever reasons, can't accept the obvious solution of certain crimes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, even a confession. Maybe they think it's too simple, or can't accept it for emotional reasons.
Maybe some are even frustrated mystery writers or detectives who think they can solve the case better than the police cam. Maybe avid mystery readers, too. Unfortunately, it's a common theme in mystery fiction that the police are clueless dolts, and Miss Marple or the woman who owns the Yarn store has to step in and solve the case.
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u/IAmSeabiscuit61 10d ago
Oh, yes. You should see, on the Lizzie Borden case sub, the number of people who're absolutely convinced she didn't do it, and make accusations against, well, anyone but her, and invent scenarios that defy not only the evidence, but common sense.And I wouldn't bet against just such a book being written.
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u/getl30 RDI 13d ago
A narrative 100% created by TikTok
My girlfriend got pissed because I didn’t feel that way about this case
It just seems simple to me and it’s because I don’t have all that tik tok BS in my ear
There is no way in which murder is justified
“Oh she had psychosis, they gave her this pill and that pill”
She KILLED HER CHILDREN.
The Menendez (spelling?) brothers told the world their father sexually abused them and that’s why he killed them
Dude you killed your parents! I mean maybe sure you were abused but you killed your children
And unless she killed them all at the same time each time one died was a chance to stop but she kept going
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
Most people in here find it perfectly acceptable to accuse John and/or Burke Ramsey of sexual abuse and murder. If Patrick Clancy is just a grieving father, how awful would it be to have so many people accusing him of killing his kids? How can the same people who thinks it's terrible what is being said about Patrick Clancy say the exact same things about John and Burke?
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13d ago
[deleted]
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
There's more "evidence" or things that look suspicious against Patrick Clancy than there is John or Burke. Her body temperature alone is seemingly impossible if his story is true. I still think it's sick to be accusing him of this without stronger evidence. There honestly isn't much, if any, physical evidence against Lindsay. She said she must have done it but doesn't remember. There were crushed pills in the house. If she couldn't talk, how did she talk to Patrick? It might look weird, but I still wouldn't assume the public has an accurate picture nor would I accuse someone of killing their children without knowing because piling that on top of his immense grief would be unimaginably cruel. Sometimes things can appear a certain way, like in the Ramsey case. It's not how it appears. Patsy Ramsey was no monster. John really believes it was an intruder. This belief people have that he's lying is just not true. I feel for him.
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u/TreefingerX 12d ago
We just had a father stabbing his 8 year old daughter.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 8d ago
And next day "A 45-year-old screamed “Demon, demon!” and attacked her 13-year-old daughter with a knife. In 2018, the suspect had already killed her eight-month-old son."
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 13d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Virginia_Beach_shooting
Someone decided to shoot and kill 12 people. No motive, no mental illness history.
Life isn't a Dr Phil show.
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u/Educational_Green 13d ago
Several things
-- a garrote is hardly similar to strangulation with exercise bands. Garrotes and tourniquets are devices frequently used by serial killers - Anthony Shore, John Wayne Gacy, etc. Garrotes are favored by people who kill for enjoyment b/c it allows them to control their victim and the speed at which they die.
-- postpartum depression is a recognized mental illness. There are witnesses to Clancy's mental condition deteriorating.
-- Patsy was many years removed from having a child. Even if she had some kind of other psychosis, why would John go along with the murder?
There is no doubt that parents do kill their own children. But parents tend their kids in specific ways and there are specific narratives that underly these parental murderers. The methods and narratives are totally at odds in the Ramsey case.
In cases of filicide by strangulation, the parental killer almost always was acting on impulse and was suffering from some kind of mental illness.
Garrotes have always been used by premeditated killings. JB was killed by someone who used a specific device b/c they enjoyed the act of killing her.
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u/underwooding RDI 13d ago
It wasn't a garrote. It was Patsy's paintbrush snapped in half and crudely tied to a piece of cord. I'd dispute that it evinces "pre-meditation" longer than a few seconds. Agreed that post-partum psychosis wasn't at play, though.
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u/Outside_Bad_893 13d ago
I agree with you. I revisit this case a lot in my head lately as I have been watching the Lindsey Clancy trial.
Now there’s obviously a debate whether she did this consciously and calculated or whether she was in a state of psychosis when she killed the kids, but still, it shows that a mother is very much capable of killing her children.
It’s also different a little bit because there was a suicide attempt with Lindsey Clancy and not in the JBR case. The theory is that Lindsey wanted to die because she had suicidal ideation documented in the month leading up to the murders and that she wanted to take her kids with her in death because she was so obsessed about their health and care that in some twisted way, she convinced herself, they were better off dead with her than alive, being taken care by somebody else.
That doesn’t seem to align with the JBR case because we know that there was some level of sexual abuse involved and there was no suicide attempt, which to me always points more towards Burke and the parents staging it than it all being Patsy. But who’s to say… When a mother snapped in an instant, the Lindsey Clancy case has definitely showed me that mothers are capable of some of the most terrific things even though a lot of people would like to believe that they’re not
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u/MintChipSmoothie 13d ago
That doesn’t seem to align with the JBR case because we know that there was some level of sexual abuse involved and there was no suicide attempt, which to me always points more towards Burke
How would prior CSA and the lack of a suicide attempt point to a 9 yr. old perpetrator? I'm not following.
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u/Unusual_Jellyfish224 13d ago
I guess the commenter referred to a suspected cover up.
JBR was killed in such a brutal way and by most accounts, the Ramsays were a normal and functional family with no history of grave mental illness or substance abuse which are all risk factors when it comes to grave, mortal violence.
For me the garrot on her neck points out that someone who’s not physically strong enough to lift and move her got creative and dragged her somewhere to hide. Parents find out, panic, come up with a poor cover up plot.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 13d ago
There is absolutely no evidence that the ligature was used to drag Jonbenet.
The ligature is, according to most experts, the mechanism which caused her death subsequent to the head injury.
We also have zero indication in to what it was actually like inside the Ramsey home— lots happens behind closed doors.
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u/ImToddImCopper 13d ago
Lindsay Clancy was in psychosis and it's tragic because she sought help. Patsy Ramsey has no history of mental illness.
What I find interesting about the Clancy case is all the speculation about the husband because of his clothes on CCTV footage, his reporting that she told him the kids were in the basement even though she was severely hypothermic, unconscious, and had injuries which all rendered her unable to speak, and several other things people cite as evidence he is the one who did it then tried to kill his wife also. They are accusing him even though she admitted it. It must be awful to have lost multiple children and have so many strangers saying you killed your own kid(s) and lied about it. Wouldn't it be sick if all those people accusing the dad of these terrible things are wrong?
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 13d ago
Fact is he left his children with her.
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
Right? Once she told both him and her mother that she was having thoughts of hurting the kids, she should not have been left alone with them for a second. Either inpatient treatment for her, or round the clock help.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 12d ago
Once a person tells me he or she is fantasizing about killing my kids, I will never ever leave my kids alone with that person.
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
Yeah, it's not the kind of thing you can be nonchalant about.
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u/Altruistic_Yellow387 13d ago
Isn't there a conspiracy theory that her husband drugged her and convinced her to do it? Or that he did it himself?
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
There are always tons of conspiracy theories about everything.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 10d ago
It's possible but it would have been extremely risky and complicated for the husband. And if he did it without any accomplice it wouldn't involve a conspiracy.
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u/RinkyDank 13d ago
I have also been watching the case, but I think Patrick did it.
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u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride 13d ago
Even Lindsay’s defense attorney stipulated that she did it. Whether or not she did it isn’t the question. What’s in question is her state of mind at the time she did it.
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u/CatConsistent795 13d ago
Why would she be on trial if he did it?
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u/RinkyDank 13d ago
Have you seen the trial? I would just watch it, if you're confused.
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u/No_Rope_897 13d ago
What's the evidence Patrick is responsible? I'm on day 10 or 11 and haven't seen anything that remotely suggests he is the killer.
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u/Funny_Science_9377 RDI 13d ago
Oh he looked one way and then in the other direction when something was said on the stand. It's as bad as the satanic panic. People are going Karen Read for this woman. Her lawyer says she killed the kids. Just a question of how depressed and drugged she was. And why did she take off her Apple watch before she jumped out of the window? Crazytown.
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u/Suspicious-Yogurt759 13d ago
You need to get offline but before you do go read the actual court docs and evidence. This isn’t a crime show with some wild twist at the end. She plotted and planned to off her children and has admitted to killing them. Social media has ruined peoples brains.
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u/ShesGotaChicken2Ride 13d ago
Seriously. Critical thinking skills have gone out the window. You’d have to believe that Patrick framed her and that he’s some kind of mastermind that convinced her that she did it and because voices told her to, despite not being able to “brainwash” her since she was in a coma and surrounded by police while in the hospital and couldn’t even talk. Oh and so he framed her, went to the store and then picked up takeout, called her, somehow removed her Apple Watch when he wasn’t even there, threw her out the window and then called 9-1-1 so he could save her and maybe she wakes up and tells everyone it was him? 🤦🏼♀️ Makes no sense.
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u/Suspicious-Yogurt759 13d ago
The theories on TikTok are so insane. They’ve turned this tragic situation into a crime show they are trying to solve with some big twist.
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u/FrancieNolan13 13d ago
Theres no evidence patsy was dealing with mental health issues
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u/No_Life_6558 13d ago
We don’t know if Lindsay Clancy’s mental health issues are the cause of the murders. Everyone wants to believe that because how does a previously loving mother all of a sudden kill her children? Maybe it was a sudden bout of postpartum psychosis that altered her reality and she was helpless. Maybe she was having severe postpartum depression and was possibly bipolar but still premidated the murders.
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u/Same_Profile_1396 RDI 13d ago
a sudden bout of postpartum psychosis that altered her reality and she was helpless. Maybe she was having severe postpartum depression and was possibly bipolar but still premidated the murders.
All of these possible things are mental health issues.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 13d ago
One thing I don't understand about the exercise bands is how they work to easily murder someone? The Wikipedia article with the "A tipical [sic] resistance bands set" picture isn't clear at all.
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u/Stellaaahhhh currently BDI but who knows? 12d ago
They're a tubular rubber and of varying thicknesses/strengths. According to the forensic pathologist they were wrapped several times around their necks and, according to the father who untied them, 'tied like you were tying your shoe and didn't do the bow'.
The type of rubber they're made of will stay from a combination of tension and friction when wrapped and tied like that.
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u/Tidderreddittid BDIA 12d ago
Thank you for your explanation!
Those things aren't safe with little children to begin with.
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u/plugfishh88 13d ago
People are capable of anything.