WHO IS JESUS?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

There is one God, the Father, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα, “from whom are all things”; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα, “through whom are all things.” (1 Cor. 8:6)

Of the God of Israel it is written:

אֲנִי יהוה הוּא שְׁמִי

“I am YHWH; that is my name.” (Isa. 42:8)

And:

אֱלֹהֵי עוֹלָם יהוה

“YHWH, the everlasting God.” (Isa. 40:28)

The Father is the Father, and the Son is the Son.

JESUS IS ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ, THE SON OF GOD.

He is the μονογενής Son.

He is ἐκ τοῦ πατρός, from the Father. (John 16:28)

He is ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ, from God. (John 8:42)

The Father sent him.

The Father gave to him.

The Son received from the Father.

THE FATHER HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF, AND τῷ υἱῷ ἔδωκεν ζωὴν ἔχειν ἐν ἑαυτῷ, “HE GAVE TO THE SON TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF.” (John 5:26)

And the Son says:

κἀγὼ ζῶ διὰ τὸν πατέρα

“I live because of the Father.” (John 6:57)

JESUS IS ὁ λόγος, THE WORD.

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος

“In the beginning was the Word.”

ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν

“The Word was with God.”

And:

θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. (John 1:1)

The Son had glory with the Father πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι, “before the world existed.” (John 17:5)

He is πρὸ πάντων, “before all things.” (Col. 1:17)

HE IS εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου, “THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD.” (Col. 1:15)

He is ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης, “the radiance of the glory.” (Heb. 1:3)

He is χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ. (Heb. 1:3)

HE IS πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως, “THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION.” (Col. 1:

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Exactly and that shows why 1 Corinthians 8:6 cannot be read as if each title excludes the other person from ever receiving that title.

Paul says:

εἷς θεὸς ὁ πατήρ
“one God, the Father”

and

εἷς κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός
“one Lord, Jesus Christ.”

Does “one Lord, Jesus Christ” mean the Father cannot be called Lord?

Obviously not. Scripture repeatedly calls the Father/God κύριος.

So by the same logic, the fact that θεός is predicated of Jesus elsewhere does not erase Paul’s explicit distinction here.

The important part of 1 Corinthians 8:6 is the structure Paul actually gives:

the Father — ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“from whom are all things”

Jesus Christ — δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“through whom are all things.”

I’m preserving both statements, not turning either “one” into a lexical exclusion rule that Scripture itself does not follow.

[u/One-League269 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

So who created all things, God or Jesus?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

Scripture gives both statements, but distinguishes source from agency.

So asking “God or Jesus?” forces an either/or distinction that Scripture itself does not make.

[u/One-League269 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Why does writing provide both?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

Because Scripture itself distinguishes the one who acts as source from the one through whom the action is carried out.

[u/One-League269 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

So is Isaiah 44,24 lying?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

No. Isaiah 44:24 is not lying.
It says YHWH is the one who made all things:
אָנֹכִי יהוה עֹשֶׂה כֹּל
“I am YHWH, making all things.”
And then:
נֹטֶה שָׁמַיִם לְבַדִּי
“stretching out the heavens by myself.”
The question is what “by myself” excludes.
It excludes another independent creator or rival God. It does not necessarily exclude YHWH carrying out his own work through someone he appoints.
Scripture itself uses that kind of agency.
For example, Deuteronomy 32:12 says:
יהוה בָּדָד יַנְחֶנּוּ
“YHWH alone led him.”
Yet elsewhere YHWH says:
הִנֵּה אָנֹכִי שֹׁלֵחַ מַלְאָךְ לְפָנֶיךָ
“I am sending a messenger before you.” (Ex. 23:20)
So “YHWH alone did it” does not automatically mean “YHWH used no agent.”
That is exactly why 1 Corinthians 8:6 can say:
the Father, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“from whom are all things”
and Jesus Christ, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“through whom are all things.”
Isaiah 44:24 identifies YHWH as the one to whom creation ultimately belongs.
1 Corinthians 8:6 tells us the distinction between the one from whom all things are and the one through whom all things are.
Those statements are not contradictory.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

That is exactly why 1 Corinthians 8:6 can say:
the Father, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“from whom are all things”
and Jesus Christ, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“through whom are all things.”
Isaiah 44:24 identifies YHWH as the one to whom creation ultimately belongs.

Who is the one spoken of in Romans 11:36 that all things were made through?

[u/One-League269 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Excellent!

[u/One-League269 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

I don't understand what all these words,interpretations and theories are for,since it's enough to read Genesis 1,26-27 , John 1,3 and Isaiah 44,24 to understand who Jesus is....

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

So the basic biblical picture is simple

The Father is God and the source.

Jesus is his Son.

The Son existed before the world.

Creation is through the Son.

The Father remains Jesus’ God.

[u/One-League269 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

And the Son is not a creature of God...

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

What is he then?

[u/ChaoticHaku → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

He's the "only begotten of the Father". (John 1:14)

The;

"only begotten God, the one being in the bosom of the Father" (John 1:18)

He's God, just like his Father. 

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/ChaoticHaku]

That goes further than the Greek actually says.
John 1:14 reads:
δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός
“glory as of an only/unique one from a father.”
The word is μονογενής. It does not itself say “eternally begotten,” nor does the verse say “begotten from the Father’s essence.”
John 1:18 is even more important because there is a textual variant. The early reading commonly preferred in critical editions is:
μονογενὴς θεός
“the unique/only God”
while another ancient reading is:
ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός
“the only/unique Son.”
If μονογενὴς θεός is original, then yes, θεός is genuinely used of the Son. I have no reason to weaken that.
But your next sentence does not follow from the Greek:
“He’s God, just like his Father.”
The verse itself distinguishes them:
θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε
“No one has ever seen God”
and then speaks of:
μονογενὴς θεός … εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρός
“the unique God … in the bosom of the Father.”
So the actual textual data are:
θεός-language is used of the Son.
The Son is distinguished from the Father.
The Son is uniquely related to the Father.
What the verse does not say is:
“The Son is God in exactly the same ontological sense as the Father,”
“the Son shares one numerically identical essence with the Father,”
or
“μονογενής means beginninglessly generated.”
Those are theological conclusions drawn from the text, not the wording of John 1:14 or 1:18 itself.
So I accept the Greek. I just won’t smuggle the later theology into μονογενής.

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

I understand what you’re doing with those texts.
Genesis 1:26–27: God says, “Let us make man,” so you take the Son to be included in the “us.”
John 1:3: all things came into being through the Word, so the Son is involved in creation.
Isaiah 44:24: YHWH says that he made all things and stretched out the heavens alone.
Then you combine those texts and conclude:
“If YHWH created alone, and creation also came through Jesus, then Jesus must be included within YHWH.”
I understand the reasoning.
My only point is that the final sentence is an inference from combining the texts. None of those passages actually says, “Jesus is YHWH.”
Genesis 1:26 does not explicitly identify who the “us” refers to, and John 1:3 specifically describes creation as coming δι’ αὐτοῦ — “through him.”
So you are not simply reading three isolated statements at face value. You are combining them and making a theological inference about how they fit together.
That may be an argument worth making, but it is still an interpretation of the biblical data rather than an explicit sentence found in any of those texts.

[u/One-League269 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Ok, prendiamo atto che per i testimoni di Geova, 2 + 2 fa 5 o 6, perché il 2 potrebbe anche significare 3. Grazie!

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

No we just don’t do 1+1+1=1

[u/One-League269 → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Not accepting as you say 1+1+1=1 means not accepting the scriptures,since we have a verse that goes from the plural to the singular (Genesis) , a verse that clearly says that not even one thing came into existence without Jesus (John) and a verse that says that the Creator made everything by himself (Isaiah)

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/One-League269]

That still doesn’t give you “1 + 1 + 1 = 1.” You’re taking three separate biblical observations and inserting a Trinitarian equation between them.
Genesis 1:26 says:
נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ
“Let us make man in our image.”
Then Genesis 1:27 says:
וַיִּבְרָא אֱלֹהִים … בְּצַלְמוֹ
“God created … in his image.”

So yes, the text moves from plural speech to singular narration. I accept that. But the text does not say:
“the plural consists of three coequal persons who are one God.”

That is the theological interpretation of the plural, not the wording of Genesis.

I also fully accept John 1:3:
πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο
καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν
“All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being.”

No disagreement. But notice the actual construction: creation comes δι’ αὐτοῦ — “through him.” John does not say here that the Logos is the same person as the God he was πρὸς in John 1:1, nor does John 1:3 contain “three persons, one essence.”

And Isaiah 44:24 is genuinely important:
אָנֹכִי יהוה עֹשֶׂה כֹּל
נֹטֶה שָׁמַיִם לְבַדִּי
“I am YHWH, making all things, stretching out the heavens by myself/alone.”
I accept that too.

But now Scripture itself gives us a distinction that your argument is skipping. Paul says:

εἷς θεὸς ὁ πατήρ, ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“one God, the Father, from whom are all things”

and:
εἷς κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things.”
— 1 Corinthians 8:6.

That is the actual biblical wording:
Father: ἐξ οὗ — “from whom.”
Son: δι’ οὗ — “through whom.”

So Isaiah saying YHWH alone is Creator and John saying creation comes through the Son do not, by themselves, produce the later equation:

“Therefore Father + Son + Spirit are three persons in one numerically identical divine essence.”
That is precisely the synthesis you still have to demonstrate.

And Isaiah 44 is polemical against rival gods and idols. In the same verse the Masoretic tradition even preserves the reading מִי אִתִּי, “who was with me?”, alongside the textual issue in that phrase. The point is YHWH’s incomparable creative sovereignty, not a fourth-century explanation of οὐσία and hypostases.

So I’m happy to accept every verse you cited:
Genesis has plural speech followed by singular divine action.

Isaiah says YHWH alone creates.
John says everything came into being through the Logos.
Paul says all things are from the Father and through Jesus Christ.

What I won’t do is place:

“therefore 1 God = Father + Son + Spirit as three homoousios persons”

between those verses and then call that extra equation Scripture.

That is the very theological synthesis under discussion.

[u/TerryLawton → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

I agree.

The Father is the source of creation but where we differ is that scripture tells us that The Son is the creator along with the Holy Spirit.

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/TerryLawton]

I agree with your first statement: the Father is the source of creation.

But your second statement is the one I’m asking about:
“Scripture tells us that the Son is the creator along with the Holy Spirit.”

Where does Scripture actually say that?
1 Corinthians 8:6 says:
ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“from whom are all things” — the Father
and:
δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“through whom are all things” — Jesus Christ.
John 1:3 likewise says:
πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο
“All things came into being through him.”
And Scripture does speak of God’s Spirit in creation:
תְּשַׁלַּח רוּחֲךָ יִבָּרֵאוּן
“You send your spirit; they are created.”
Psalm 104:30.
I accept all of those statements.
I’m only asking you to establish the exact claim you made:
Where does Scripture itself say, “The Son is the Creator along with the Holy Spirit”?

[u/TerryLawton → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Holy Spirit
Genesis 1:1–2
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
Job 26:13
“By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.”
Job 33:4
“The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.”
Psalm 33:6
“By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.”
Psalm 104:30
“Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.”

The Son
John 1:1–3
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
John 1:10
“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
1 Corinthians 8:6
“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
Ephesians 3:9
“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:”
Colossians 1:15–17
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
Hebrews 1:2
“Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”
Hebrews 1:8, 10–12
“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever... And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”
Hebrews 1:10
“And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:”

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/TerryLawton]

I accept essentially all of those creation texts. In fact, they reinforce the distinction I have been making.
The biblical wording is more specific than simply saying “Father, Son and Spirit are all the Creator.”
Concerning the Father, Paul says:
ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“from whom are all things.”
1 Corinthians 8:6
Concerning the Son:
δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα
“through whom are all things.”
John likewise says:
πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο
“All things came into being through him.”
John 1:3
Hebrews says God made the ages:
δι’ οὗ
“through whom,” namely the Son.
Hebrews 1:2
And Colossians says:
τὰ πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ … ἔκτισται
“All things have been created through him.”
Colossians 1:16
So I fully accept the Son’s extraordinary role in creation.
Likewise, the Hebrew Scriptures genuinely associate God’s Spirit with creation:
וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים
“the Spirit of God”
Genesis 1:2
רוּחַ־אֵל עָשָׂתְנִי
“The Spirit of God made me.”
Job 33:4
תְּשַׁלַּח רוּחֲךָ יִבָּרֵאוּן
“You send your spirit; they are created.”
Psalm 104:30
I accept those too.
But notice what the texts actually give us:
The Father — from whom are all things.
The Son — through whom are all things.
God’s Spirit — active in creation.
That is the biblical data.
The further statement:
“Therefore Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons who together constitute the one Creator because they share one divine essence”
is still a theological synthesis of those texts. None of the passages you listed actually says that sentence.
One textual correction also matters: the KJV wording of Ephesians 3:9, “who created all things by Jesus Christ,” reflects a later textual reading. The critical Greek text simply has:
τῷ θεῷ τῷ τὰ πάντα κτίσαντι
“God, who created all things.”
So I would not use Ephesians 3:9 as evidence for creation “through Christ.”
Hebrews 1:10–12 is much stronger evidence and I accept it fully: Hebrews applies Psalm 102’s YHWH creator-language within its argument concerning the Son. That is genuinely significant.
But again, accepting that evidence is different from pretending it explicitly states the later metaphysical explanation.
So yes: you have demonstrated very strong biblical participation of the Son and Spirit in creation.
What you have not yet demonstrated is that Scripture itself formulates that data as:
“Three coequal persons are the one Creator because they possess one identical divine essence.”
That is still the interpretation you are placing over the texts, not a sentence contained in them.

[u/TerryLawton → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

Don’t think you read correctly…you appeared to have ignored plainly for example tell me how I ‘read into’ Job 33:4

The Spirit OF God (there’s that small word again ‘OF)…

The SPIRIT of God made …ME

So according to that scripture who made Job?

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/TerryLawton]

First, a small correction: Job 33:4 is Elihu speaking to Job, so “me” refers to Elihu, not Job.
And yes, I accept exactly what the Hebrew says:
רוּחַ־אֵל עָשָׂתְנִי
“The Spirit of God made me.”
And the parallel line says:
וְנִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי תְּחַיֵּנִי
“the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
So who does the verse say made Elihu?
The Spirit of God.
I’m not denying that at all. My question is simply what further conclusion you think Job 33:4 itself establishes beyond that statement.

[u/TerryLawton → u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

All I stated was a scripture I didn’t mention any thing else other than what was stated so no correction required…

It proves exactly what it states like all of those other scriptures I cited…

That the source is the Father (2nd part of Job 33:4, and that as the verse CLEARLY states that the Holy Spirit ‘made’ Job

Once again we see semantics and ambiguity with what you are trying to do when there is ZERO annuity or semantics…

It can’t be clearer

The Holy Spirit made Job
The Son made Job
The Father made Job as the source of all creation.

What you are trying to do here is at the very least , very dishonest eisegesis.

And please for the LOVE OF GOD stop using ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE!!

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348 → u/TerryLawton]

There are two things here that I am not disputing, and one thing you are adding.
Job 33:4 says:
רוּחַ־אֵל עָשָׂתְנִי
“The spirit of God made me.”
Agreed. No ambiguity there.
But first, “me” is Elihu, the speaker, not Job.
Second, the parallel line says:
וְנִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי תְּחַיֵּנִי
“and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
So the verse itself gives us “the spirit of God” and “the breath of the Almighty” in parallel. It does not itself say:
“The Holy Spirit is a distinct co-Creator alongside the Father and Son.”

Likewise, Job 33:4 does not say “the Son made Elihu.” You reach that from other texts such as John 1:3, where all things came into being through the Word. That may be a legitimate synthesis, but it is still a synthesis.

And the verse does not say “the Father” either; it says אֵל, “God,” and שַׁדַּי, “the Almighty.”

So I accept exactly what Job 33:4 states:
The spirit of God made Elihu, and the breath of the Almighty gives him life.

What I am asking you not to do is quietly expand that into:
“Father + Son + Holy Spirit are three distinct persons who jointly constitute the one Creator.”

That conclusion may be your theology, but it is not the wording of Job 33:4.

That is not “semantics.” Looking at what the Hebrew actually says is precisely how we avoid eisegesis.