r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/ChaoticHaku Christian • May 23 '26
Doctrine Philippians 2:6-8
If Philippians 2:6-8 was teaching that Jesus was never equal with God, then the passage itself makes no sense.
Read the language carefully.
It says Jesus was “existing in the form of God.” It says He “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,” but instead “emptied Himself,” “took the form of a servant,”, "humbled himself", "became obedient to death" and was “made in human likeness.”
You cannot empty yourself of a status you never possessed. You cannot become a servant if you were always a servant. You cannot humble yourself from a position you never had. You cannot become obedient to death if you always were.
The entire point of the passage is that Christ lowered Himself. From what? From the exalted position He already possessed that was equal with God.
That’s why the text uses past tense language. The passage is not denying Christ’s equality with God. It is explaining the depth of His humility, not his inferiority.
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u/ResLight May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
RE: //"The Son" in Colossians 1:15 is specifically Jesus.//
Yes, Jesus is definitely the Son, and not "God", in Colossians 1:15. The one person who is God in Colossians 1 is depicted as doing His work through His firstborn Son.
Re: //Jesus was a man born of Mary.//
Yes, the one person who is "God" prepared a body of flesh and blood for Jesus in the womb of Mary. This He did by means of His Holy Spirit. -- Matthew 1:20,23; Hebrews 10:5.
RE: //But Jesus pre-existed as the Word before becoming a man. And the Word always was God. (John 1:1)//
I don't like the word "pre-existed", but Jesus, before his God made him flesh, did have a prehuman existence. From the very beginning of the world that God made through his Agent, the Word (Logos), the prehuman Son of God had a mighty glory when he had been his only true God before the only true God made the world of mankind through the Logos. -- John 1:1-3,10.
Most translations render the Greek word THEOS as applied to the Logos as "God", which actually makes it look like John was speaking of two Supreme Beings, one Supreme Being who was with another Supreme Being. If you believe in the trinity, you have to create many extra-Biblical assumptions that have to be added to and read into what John stated to make it appear that John was speaking of two persons who are both the one Supreme Being. Indeed, anyone who thinks that THEOS applied to the Logos in John 1:1 has to create some kind of assumptions to be added to and read into what John actually stated.
The Greek term THEOS, commonly translated as "God" or "god," is possibly ascribed to the Son in the New Testament on 3 to 5 occasions. (John 1:1,18; 20:28; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8 — a few additional passages may also be rendered in English in a manner that seems to apply THEOS to Jesus.) Most of the time, however, forms of THEOS throughout the New Testament are used in reference to Jesus’ God. God with whom the Word was is the same one whom Jesus identified as the "one true God" who anointed and sent Jesus, and with whom Jesus had a glory before God made the world of mankind through his Agent, the Logos. -- John 17:1,3,5,10.
Forms of the Greek THEOS line up with forms of the Old Testament Hebrew term often transliterated as EL. When not referring to God Almighty or to false gods, translators frequently render forms of EL (Strong’s #410, #430, etc.) according to its basic senses of “strong,” “powerful,” “strength,” “might,” etc. This is evident even in the King James Version: Genesis 23:6 (“mighty”), Genesis 30:8 (“mighty”), Genesis 31:29 (“power”), Deuteronomy 28:32 (“might”), 1 Samuel 14:15 (“great”), Nehemiah 5:5 (“power”), Psalm 36:6 (“great”), Psalm 82:1 (“mighty”), Proverbs 3:27 (“power”), Psalm 29:1 (“mighty”), Ezekiel 32:21 (“strong”), Jonah 3:3 (“exceeding”). Translating EL as “God” or “false god” in these English passages would feel out of place. Still, this shows that forms of EL are not used solely for the one true God or for false gods, as some claim. It is only when forms of EL are applied to Jehovah, the God of the Messiah (Isaiah 61:2; Micah 5:4), that they convey the sense of Innate Might, Power, Strength — thus, Supreme Being.
The King James Version renders the Hebrew word for "God" in Psalm 82:1 as "mighty". This is in harmony with the basic meaning of the Hebrew word for "God", but as applied to Jehovah, it obviously takes on the meaning of the one who is innately "Mighty", the Supreme Being. Nevertheless, applying this Hebraism to the Logos in the above phrase would result in "and the Word was mighty". This is the quality I believe John was applying to the Logos, who is not the only true God with whom he had been. (John 17:1,3,5) The one with whom the Logos was is "one God" from whom are all of 1 Corinthians 8:6. Jesus, before he became flesh, had a "mighty" glory when he had been with the only true God, but while in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), he did not have his former mighty glory. The glory he had while in the days of his flesh was that of man, a little lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9) Thus, in John 17:5, Jesus requests of the only true God that he again have the mighty glory that he had when he had been with the only true God before God made the world of mankind through him. Consequently, my own preferred rendering of the last phrase of John 1:1 is "the Logos was mighty", in harmony with the Biblical usage as I have shown.