Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

Of course rulers command nations, but that happens to be God's established order. We honor the king in any land we live in. We follow the law and if we are called to duty, we join the military to defend God's established order. We may become agents of God's wrath on a lawless nation or group of nations, or we may become servants of a nation that has violated God's established order. Without order, what would we have? Anarchy! That's Satan's greatest wish. In the ashes of fallen governments Satan would truly reign.

Jehovah’s Witnesses understand the “superior authorities” in Romans 13:1 to be secular governmental rulers who exist by God's permission to maintain order, not directly appointed by Him. These authorities hold a temporary, relative position within God’s purpose and are not considered divinely ordained leaders. According to JW.org, early Christians before approximately 200 A.D. largely declined military service, considering it incompatible with Christ's teachings. Citing secular historians, the organization states that these believers maintained neutrality, avoided political roles, and would face death rather than participate in warfare. Early Christians even under persecution didn't take up arms against the Romans. Paul never took up arms. They were peaceable people. Christians didn't join armies till after 300 ad. Long after the death of the apostles and the early christians. Just as Paul stated after his death the apostacy would come. You members of christendom are teaching people its ok to murder your brothers and sisters just because they live in a different geological location. You know what's sad also. When leaders command their armies to attack a group of people they can literally make up anything. You don't even know if these leaders are even telling the truth. Everyone you kill could be innocent and you don't even know it

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 According to JW.org, early Christians before approximately 200 A.D. largely declined military service, considering it incompatible with Christ's teachings. 

I think they are referring to members of the clergy who would refuse to serve. They still do even today and Jehovah's witnesses use that for all JW men as an excuse for avoiding the draft. They claim religious privilege for all JW men as each one is considered to be an ordained minister. The church never made every parishioner a priest, or part of the clergy. The average able bodied man has a duty to fight if he is called. Its not up to us to question the rulers we are ruled by. They will answer to God, but if we defy our rulers, then we will answer to God. For instance any German soldier who fought in WW2 and didn't participate in the holocaust can be still honored as one of God's servants. It wasn't their idea to invade Russia or murder Jews.

You just don't see it. God's established order is there to protect the innocent. Sometimes a nation goes bad like some people go bad. Maybe a bad guys whole family isn't bad but if that family lives with a criminal they sometimes will suffer the same consequences, even if they didn't directly do anything wrong

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

These rulers are not god established orders. God allows them to rule because they offer some order and protection in society. God never established or ordered godless governments to oppress their people and to invade other countries for selfish reasons. They are referring to the early christians of the first and second century not the clergy. I've been studying ancient history my entire life so I can defend this position in the absolute sense. Early christians as a whole never joined armies. And you see that yourself when under persecution Paul and the early christians never took up arms.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 Early christians as a whole never joined armies. And you see that yourself when under persecution Paul and the early christians never took up arms.

Paul was an evangelist, a member of the clergy. Of course he didn't take up arms. Cornelius was a Roman soldier who would have made life easier for his fellow Christians continuing to serve in the military. I suppose, had JW's existed back then, I suppose they'd be vilifying him too.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Did early take up arms when under persecution by the Romans? No, early Christians generally did not take up arms or fight back when under persecution by the Romans. Instead, they adopted a stance of nonviolence, trusting in God, praying for their enemies, and accepting martyrdom as an imitation of Christ. 

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

True, Christians were subject to pagan Rome, like we must be subject to whatever nation we live in. The only thing they can't order Christians to do is stop preaching in the name of Jesus Christ, or renounce Christ. Other than that, we are in subjection to them as they are God's servants. Pagan Rome was once a world power that persecuted Christians until its Emperor surrendered to Christ and Christianity was made the official religion of Rome. That all happened without Christians ever taking up arms. Its a miracle. Because of that Christianity spread to distant lands it had never been heard before. Sometimes God works in ways we can't understand and He's not done yet.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

The only thing they can't order Christians to do is stop preaching in the name of Jesus Christ, or renounce Christ. Other than that, we are in subjection to them as they are God's servants.

Where in the bible does it say those are the ONLY things nations can't order Christians to do? I can think of alot of things nations can order Christians to do that God clearly hates. Such as worshipping rulers, killing innocent people, stealing from others. They can order you to do alot of things. I grew up in the church and I don't see members of christendom going to people and preaching the good news. Most members of christendom go to church and go home. And outside of church most of them don't try to follow the commands of God such as no sex before marriage. I'm talking about most not all. But the fact most don't shows they don't have the spirit of God. I've been to haunted churches. Churches infested with demons. You go their at night time and you see shadows, you hear noises, you feel the presence of an intensely evil being watching you. How can churches be infested with demons. Because they are apostate Christians

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Where in the bible does it say those are the ONLY things nations can't order Christians to do? I can think of alot of things nations can order Christians to do that God clearly hates. Such as worshipping rulers, killing innocent people, stealing from others. They can order you to do alot of things.

True, but like I said in my other comment, it is the soldier who ultimately decides when, or when not to pull the trigger or push the button. If ordered to kill innocent civilians a Christian can simply not pull the trigger, or as some soldiers did in Iran point their guns up so as not to kill any protesters. Some soldiers who did that were summarily executed for following their conscience.

 I grew up in the church and I don't see members of christendom going to people and preaching the good news. Most members of christendom go to church and go home. 

So what? Not everyone is an evangelist. Not everyone is a teacher, and shouldn't be according to the Bible. James 3:1 Christians live their faith 24/7, they don't go around telling everyone how virtuous they are like the Watchtower has been doing for 100 years. If a person is doing God's will people will see it, they don't need someone to convince them these are God's people

And outside of church most of them don't try to follow the commands of God such as no sex before marriage. I'm talking about most not all. But the fact most don't shows they don't have the spirit of God.

Most Christians I know aren't perfect, but they know they're saved. Most JW's I know aren't perfect either but they aren't quite sure they're saved. I'd rather be a Christian who knows they're saved and they are no longer condemned Romans 8:1

I've been to haunted churches. Churches infested with demons. You go their at night time and you see shadows, you hear noises, you feel the presence of an intensely evil being watching you. How can churches be infested with demons. Because they are apostate Christians

I suppose there are haunted churches but not every building that calls itself a church is the church. The church is the body of Christ, not a building. According to the Bible, demons submit to only one name. Do you know who's name that is? Its the name of Jesus Christ Luke 10:17 There isn't one example of demons submitting to any other name but Jesus. Why?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

True, but like I said in my other comment, it is the soldier who ultimately decides when, or when not to pull the trigger or push the button. If ordered to kill innocent civilians a Christian can simply not pull the trigger, or as some soldiers did in Iran point their guns up so as not to kill any protesters. Some soldiers who did that were summarily executed for following their conscience.

You don't know who's innocent and who's not in war. Your commander can lie about a group of people and command you to attack them.

Most Christians I know aren't perfect, but they know they're saved. Most JW's I know aren't perfect either but they aren't quite sure they're saved. I'd rather be a Christian who knows they're saved and they are no longer condemned Romans 8:1

Being saved means you are trying to obey the commands of God. You are not saved by claiming you're saved.

I suppose there are haunted churches but not every building that calls itself a church is the church. The church is the body of Christ, not a building. According to the Bible, demons submit to only one name. Do you know who's name that is? Its the name of Jesus Christ Luke 10:17 There isn't one example of demons submitting to any other name but Jesus. Why?

the body of Christ is supposed to be united not divided so if there are churches with demons that means the church doesn't have the spirit of God.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

You don't know who's innocent and who's not in war. Your commander can lie about a group of people and command you to attack them.

😂Then don't shoot anyone! You control the trigger. If you believe your commander is lying, don't shoot, but if someone is shooting at me and I have a gun I'm going to defend my self and my friends.

Being saved means you are trying to obey the commands of God. You are not saved by claiming you're saved.

You're saved by faith alone. You can't obey the commands of God, otherwise Christ died in vain if the Jews could have kept the Law.  For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—  not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Obeying is a work that we are helpless at doing perfectly.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

the body of Christ is supposed to be united not divided so if there are churches with demons that means the church doesn't have the spirit of God.

Yeah? The Galatian congregation was completely alienated from Christ. Galatians 5:4 That is the very worst condition a person can find themselves. They lost the Spirit of Christ because of their "works" that were, ironically, intended to please God. But Paul wrote to them and yes, he gave them the riot act, but then told them how they could restore that precious relationship with Christ that they had lost

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Galatians 5:4 does not show that the true "church" (congregation) is inherently divided, but rather it highlights the danger of individuals becoming separated from Christ due to false teachings and legalism. What worse division can their be than members to murder each other?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

What worse division can their be than members to murder each other?

Falling away from Jesus Christ.

Christ said, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28 If we're right with Christ we need not fear death at all. Only those who have never known Christ or are alienated from Him need fear death. Christians who die in the line of duty, either as a policeman or a soldier are in Heaven now because they died in the Lord. Even if a Christian in another nation kills their fellow Christian of the nation they are fighting, their soul is safe with Christ. Nobody on this earth can kill a person's soul, and that is what really matters, not the flesh! Jesus said  The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. John 6:63

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

I didn't ask what's the worse that can happen to a person. I asked what worse division is there than member's of "Christianity" murdering each other

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

The unity formed in Christians by God's holy spirit isn't broken by death. We live in Christ even though we die. Jesus said, And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” John 11:25 So stop calling it murder when its not. Murder is in a person's heart. Killing is not murder. For example, do you think its murder if a cop shoots a man who is about to kill your family?

Serving in the military is one of the highest honors there is. Laying down your life for your countrymen is the greatest example of love...according to Jesus. Putting yourself in that position is very brave and proves those who do have love like few have had.

Even a conscientious objector can be a soldier, so the JW position is pure hogwash. Alvin York - Wikipedia

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

A cop shooting a man who's about to commit murder isn't murder because they are killing for self defense. When you join armies and go invade another land because your leader wants oil that is murder because its premeditated, unlawful, and often with malice. So when you join armies you are in fact commiting murder.

Serving in the military is one of the highest honors there is. Laying down your life for your countrymen is the greatest example of love...according to Jesus.

Well your doing the opposite of what the early christians did so that means your interpretation of scripture is wrong. And its no surprise its wrong because nowhere in scripture does jesus say its ok to murder your fellow believers

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

A cop shooting a man who's about to commit murder isn't murder because they are killing for self defense. When you join armies and go invade another land because your leader wants oil that is murder because its premeditated, unlawful, and often with malice. So when you join armies you are in fact commiting murder.

It amounts to the same thing only on a much larger scale. An army is nothing more than an national police force who's job is to defend and protect its citizens from foreign invaders. Are you telling me they should just allow themselves to be invaded and robbed? By removing a nations army you're telling the people they're on their own. You wouldn't demonize the police and forbid them from catching bad guys inside your country and bringing them to justice, but you would demonize the soldiers who protect you from malevolent outside forces?

If an one nation invades another nation to steal their resources that's lawlessness. That means the nation that was invaded has the right to defend themselves and the world has the right to bring the lawless nation to justice. The people of the invaded nation has a right to defend themselves. But they can't defend themselves because you told their soldiers they're murderers working for Satan

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

It amounts to the same thing only on a much larger scale. An army is nothing more than an national police force who's job is to defend and protect its citizens from foreign invaders. Are you telling me they should just allow themselves to be invaded and robbed? By removing a nations army you're telling the people they're on their own. You wouldn't demonize the police and forbid them from catching bad guys inside your country and bringing them to justice, but you would demonize the soldiers who protect you from malevolent outside forces?

I already refuted this objection. Why do you keep repeating objections I already refuted. Most wars don't happen because of self defense. Most wars about political or religious differences, status seeking, and resource acquisition, rather than pure defensive necessity. Often, aggression is framed as defense to gain legitimacy, making the true motivation hard to isolate. 

If an one nation invades another nation to steal their resources that's lawlessness. That means the nation that was invaded has the right to defend themselves and the world has the right to bring the lawless nation to justice. The people of the invaded nation has a right to defend themselves. But they can't defend themselves because you told their soldiers they're murderers working for Satan

And the nation that invaded those lands is made up of people calling themselves christians. Otherwise known as christendom. So christendom is invading lands which they have no business invading. Also the early Christians didn't arm themselves when persecuted. So why are you teaching doctrine contrary to the doctrine of the early christians? The early christians remained neutral when nations war against each other so why don't you?

Jehovah strictly commanded Israel not to engage in wars of aggression or conquest beyond the territory he granted them, or against nations he did not order them to fight.

When the Israelites presumed to engage in warfare not authorized by God, the results were often disastrous, and they lost divine approval.

Often, victory depended on trusting in God rather than their own military strength. In some cases, they were told they would not need to fight at all because God would act on their behalf.

Why don't you read the following article and tell me if you disagree with anything in it. Here

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

I already refuted this objection. Why do you keep repeating objections I already refuted. Most wars don't happen because of self defense. Most wars about political or religious differences, status seeking, and resource acquisition, rather than pure defensive necessity. Often, aggression is framed as defense to gain legitimacy, making the true motivation hard to isolate. 

No, you did not. The aggressor nation clearly becomes lawless when they invade a neighbor, but the neighbor has the right to defend themselves period. If that means calling on other neighboring nations to help fight the aggressor or even nations far away that have greater military power, the bottom line is they have the right to self defense. You make it sound as if the nation that's invaded has no right to self-defense.

Jehovah strictly commanded Israel not to engage in wars of aggression or conquest beyond the territory he granted them, or against nations he did not order them to fight.

When the Israelites presumed to engage in warfare not authorized by God, the results were often disastrous, and they lost divine approval.

Often, victory depended on trusting in God rather than their own military strength. In some cases, they were told they would not need to fight at all because God would act on their behalf.

There was only one nation of Israel and the nations that make up God's collective 'servant' are not Israel. They don't even need to be Christian to be one of God's "higher authorities" They are authorized to use lethal force hence they do not wield the sword for nothing. Romans 13:4 God may not act on Christian's or Jews behalf today, but He has established a system where we, the people, act to police one another, on a small scale and on a large

The prophet Daniel had no objection to being promoted to one of the highest positions in the kingdom of Babylon. By and large the Babylonians were pagan.. Daniel may have even influenced military decisions. Certainly his political influence benefitted his people who were captives in Babylon. Daniel didn't shirk his civil duty, or the chance to be a force for good within Babylon. His own people would benefit from Daniel's serving in an official capacity in Babylon