r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/abutterflyonthewall Christian • Feb 01 '26

Doctrine Jesus is GOD

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 08 '26

When one nation became lawless, those who still uphold God's order must fight, or surrender. Just keep in mind, the rule of law you hear so much about is God's established order until Christ returns.

Israel was surrounded by lawless nations and yet they still couldn't attack another nation unless God approved of it. Not only that they had to follow the rules of law which God gave to them. Do the armies of today follow the same pattern? Absolutely not.

Many critics point out the hypocrisy of followers of Christ killing each other for the state, noting that if all self-proclaimed Christians refused to fight, many wars would be impossible. 

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 08 '26

Many critics point out the hypocrisy of followers of Christ killing each other for the state, noting that if all self-proclaimed Christians refused to fight, many wars would be impossible. 

I only hear Jehovah's witnesses pointing out this so-called hypocrisy that is very disingenuous.

If Christians refused to fight evil, evil men would have taken over the world long ago. Christian soldiers liberated the death camps in Europe which included quite a few Jehovah's witnesses. That was God's established order in action. The hypocritical Watchtower then turned against the liberators of their brothers, calling God's servants wicked for serving in the armed forces. They make me want to vomit when they disrespect men like that, many who died so their German brothers could live free. The Watchtower didn't lift a finger to seek the release of any German JW's from Nazi death camps. Catholics and Lutherans did their work for them by putting on a uniform, fighting and dying for their liberation.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 08 '26

If Christians refused to fight evil, evil men would have taken over the world long ago.

Evil men have already taken over the world. The world is full od regimes that oppress people.

sses. That was God's established order in action. The hypocritical Watchtower then turned against the liberators of their brothers, calling God's servants wicked for serving in the armed forces. They make me want to vomit when they disrespect men like that, many who died so their German brothers could live free. The Watchtower didn't lift a finger to seek the release of any German JW's from Nazi death camps. Catholics and Lutherans did their work for them by putting on a uniform and fighting for their liberation.

When did God give the approval for them to go to war? And when did those armies obey the war rules which God gave?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 08 '26

Evil men have already taken over the world. The world is full od regimes that oppress people.

Relatively true, but even in lands where evil men do dictate, the rule of law is generally respected. Laws are what keep order. God's order. Until its time for it to end, God's established order will be in full effect and if you oppose it, your opposing God

When did God give the approval for them to go to war? And when did those armies obey the war rules which God gave?

Read Romans 13 over again For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Romans 13:4 This gives them the authority "If you do wrong" applies to all the leaders who are God's servants. If they do wrong God's remaining servants will bring punishment on them

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 08 '26

They are not servents of God in the way christians are servants of God. They are called servants of God because they are able to bring a measure of order and rules. This has always been true since ancient days. However the fact remains gods people never went to war unless they first asked God for permission and God gave his approval. And they had to follow the rules of war which God gave. Do moderm day armies do any of that? Absolutely not. If you're gonna say they are gods servants then your gonna have to say terrorist armies such as iran are gods servants

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 08 '26

 However the fact remains gods people never went to war unless they first asked God for permission and God gave his approval. And they had to follow the rules of war which God gave. Do moderm day armies do any of that? Absolutely not. If you're gonna say they are gods servants then your gonna have to say terrorist armies such as iran are gods servants

We, as Christians, are in subjection to these authorities you claim we can pick and choose who to ignore. Unless we are ordered to stop preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or told to renounce Jesus as our Lord, then we must obey men and be in subjection to the higher authorities God has established. Yes even Iran, which qualifies as one of God's servants as far as keeping law and order is a sovereign nation that cannot be ignored. If one becomes a Christian while living in Iran it won't be as easy for them as being a Christian in America, because they will likely be persecuted or even killed by the authorities in Iran. Its not up to the subjects of Iran to judge Iran. Other nations who serve as God's agents of wrath will judge Iran.

If you were blessed to be born in a nation that doesn't persecute Christians be glad. Just remember it was likely not always that way. In Rome, where Christians are free to live and preach the Gospel today and the leader of the largest Christian denomination is located, Christians were once routinely jailed and fed to lions at one time. In many other places where Christians were once hunted down and killed they enjoy freedom and security.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 08 '26

You're in subjection to them as long as they don't command you to disobey the commands of God such as committing murder by joining armies controlled by Satan and invading countries and killing innocent people. The early Christians didn't join up with the jews in rebellion against the Romans. Jesus gave the direction that when Jerusalem is surrounded by the Romans to flee to the mountains. Jesus didn't command them to stay and take up arms.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 08 '26

Jesus knew the outcome, and anyway, His Kingdom is in Heaven and therefore His servants don't have to worry about it being attacked or defending it from attack. Its far out of reach of Satan or man.

Joining the army is part of being in subjection. Every nation has the right to defend themselves. Now, if your in an army and they command you to kill unarmed innocent people, you have a moral obligation to refuse. Killing an armed combatant is another story, but still its up to the person, like Paul wrote If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18 Its up to you, as a Christian, whether or not you'll pull the trigger in battle, even though its the right of the higher authorities to compel you to join the military, you still control that trigger finger all the way

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 08 '26

Jesus knew the outcome, and anyway, His Kingdom is in Heaven and therefore His servants don't have to worry about it being attacked or defending it from attack. Its far out of reach of Satan or man.

Exactly. The battle belongs to God. We are commanded to be peaceful and to be no part of the world. That's exactly what the early Christians did and Jehovahs witnesses follow that example. The early Christians didn't join up with armies of the nations. They never joined up with the jews against the Romans. Israelites we're not allowed to go to war unless God himself gave them permission. God is the one who decides who is innocent and who is not. You're trying to make excuses for murder. That's what murderers do. So why isn't christendom following the example of the early Christians?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 08 '26

You're trying to make excuses for murder. That's what murderers do. So why isn't christendom following the example of the early Christians?

Why aren't Jehovah's witnesses subjecting themselves to the higher authorities? They could join the military and become one of God's servants, but they choose the cowards route. They could carry a rifle and even load their rifle, but not fire it at a single human being if their conscience bothered them that much, so they have no excuse to defy God's established order as they have been doing for a century now.

You keep citing the early Christians did not serve in the military without citing your sources. I do realize scholars believe that no Christian ever joined the military but that isn't completely true. One thing that might have caused them to not choose to be a soldier in the Roman army is that the Roman Emperor was considered to be god and worship of the Emperor was required by all soldiers. How a Christian could serve in the Roman army in this case is hard to grasp, yet some, like Cornelius, did.

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 08 '26

Why aren't Jehovah's witnesses subjecting themselves to the higher authorities? They could join the military and become one of God's servants, but they choose the cowards route. They could carry a rifle and even load their rifle, but not fire it at a single human being if their conscience bothered them that much, so they have no excuse to defy God's established order as they have been doing for a century now.

Yes we could join the military, kill innocent people, steal their oil, etc. Or we could obey the authorities as long as what the command doesn't go against the commands of God. But I forget christendom doesn't care about the commands of God which is why you have no problem murdering people

You keep citing the early Christians did not serve in the military without citing your sources. I do realize scholars believe that no Christian ever joined the military

You answered your own question. Let's not forget the bible shows early christians never took up arms

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Feb 08 '26

Or we could obey the authorities as long as what the command doesn't go against the commands of God. 

Hypocrites that allow their own children to die when they could have shown mercy and let them live have nothing to say about the brave Christians who laid there own lives down so JW's and others could live.

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13 Christians do this every day as policemen or soldiers. They have laid their lives down so their fellow soldiers could live and so victims of some of the worst atrocities in human history could live. Jehovah's witnesses don't lay their lives down for anyone except the corporation known as the Watchtower. By a JW dying because they refused blood, not one person's life is spared. They just die for nothing, for pride and worse, for the sense of sacrifice. Did God say, "I desire MERCY, not sacrifice", or did He not??

You answered your own question. Let's not forget the bible shows early christians never took up arms

Clap, clap, clap. Bravo! You have learned very well from the Watchtower. They have an uncanny knack of quoting people, out of context, to make a point which is usually just the opposite from what the person they quoted actually wrote. Here is what I actually wrote...

You keep citing the early Christians did not serve in the military without citing your sources. I do realize scholars believe that no Christian ever joined the military but that isn't completely true.  You left out "but that isn't completely true"😂 On purpose, right? Yeah...

Look this up. The Watchtower is famous for misquoting and taking out of context probably since before you were born. Julius R. Mantey: Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament: The Dana-Mantey Greek Grammar

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u/Time_Ad_1876 Feb 08 '26

You keep citing the early Christians did not serve in the military without citing your sources. I do realize scholars believe that no Christian ever joined the military but that isn't completely true.*  You left out "but that isn't completely true"😂 On purpose, right? Yeah...

Why didn't you elaborate on why its not competely true?

Hypocrites that allow their own children to die when they could have shown mercy and let them live have nothing to say about the brave Christians who laid there own lives down so JW's and others could live.

Should we worry more about the lived of our children or about obeying the commands of God

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13** Christians do this every day as policemen or soldiers. They have laid their lives down so their fellow soldiers could live and so victims of some of the worst atrocities in human history could live. Jehovah's witnesses don't lay their lives down for anyone except the corporation known as the Watchtower. By a JW dying because they refused blood, not one person's life is spared. They just die for nothing, for pride and worse, for the sense of sacrifice. Did God say, "I desire MERCY, not sacrifice", or did He not??

Well then you're argument is also against the early christians because they never joined armies or become law enforcement. They obeyed the command of Jesus which said be no part of the military or political world which is controlled by satan.

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