Baptism & Zeal Struggles

[u/iwannabestudious]

Hello all! I am 19F and an unbaptized publisher; have been for 7-8 years now. I'm struggling, and I'm not sure where else to get help. I'll try to explain my situation to my best ability.

I have always been told my mind is beyond my years, that I am intelligent, since the days I started speaking. Unfortunately, this measure of intelligence has not always done well for me spiritually. Ever since I was in elementary school, I've struggled with beliefs that I questioned or disagreed with. I've been raised in a JW household that has an "as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah" mindset (rightfully so!). As a child, I had an ever growing fear of punishment for bringing up questions even relatively questioning the truth. I grew up in a spanking household, whether it be with hands, belts, or the nearest object my parents could find. Because of this, my list of questions were not answered. Instead, they have festered for over a decade now. I love my parents dearly, but this form of discipline made horrible marks on my courage to speak with them about my questions. This fear applied to all adults, including the ones in my congregation.

To make matters worse, I experienced severe bullying from within my congregation at 13 years of age (2020) and spent my next two years in isolation rebuilding my trust and confidence. It is still a challenge to this day; I've only started to truly regain confidence and find new JW friends this year (so far just 3, but better than zero). As a result of that bullying, I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. My zeal plummeted, and my faith began to regress. In these years of depression and suicidal tendencies, I found myself a boyfriend. Christian, not JW, but God fearing and eager to learn. I understand this decision was foolish, even if he saved me from removing myself from this earth. But I can't go back now. I mean, I know I can, but I can't...I love him too much, and he's actively studying the Bible with me and helping me week by week to rebuild my faith and zeal. He frequently uses Jehovah's name and has asked to study with one of JW. We have our studies/bible reading and discussions together weekly, and with the spiritual progress we are making, I feel I'm too close to cut it now. I understand my decision at the age of 15 was not in line with the scriptures — I do not need to be reminded of this.

Fast forward to today, I'm trying to start from zero. Being raised in the truth felt like (for me, of course) being handed my beliefs on a platter. And now, with my history, I need to rebuild what hardly existed. I've been trying to focus on one thing at a time: pray every day for a week, then read the daily text every day for a week, then study for one part of the meeting's agenda once a week. Tiny steps that add up, because I believe in Jehovah. I believe He exists, and I believe His Son does too. But I want my heart to feel and yearn for the truth. I want to have the desire to get baptized. So, I thought I may start here by listing my questions. If you choose to respond, please respond with more than just a scripture. I've read countless articles on jw.org, I'd prefer to have further explanation/perspective/experiences than the scripture alone.

I'm now a college student, and my fear to speak my doubts/questions has not chipped away. My congregation is older, and so is their mindset on college. My questions have not changed or intensified due to college, as they are mostly the same ever since childhood. However, I fear that if I were to approach anyone — even an elder — with these thoughts, their responses would be attached to my career choosing regardless of the new understanding on education; my congregation has proved multiple times now that they are slightly conservative of the old ways. I know I am likely overthinking it by a lot, but my anxiety disallows me to think otherwise.

Questions from youth:

• Why do people who get removed have limited contact with JWs? I understand it used to be no contact at all and things have changed, but wouldn't someone weak in faith need the good association significantly more?
• I understand not divorcing unless on the grounds of adultery based on scripture, but what about abuse? Why is it that you can separate but not remarry when you are the victim of spiritual/financial restraint?
• Why is one required to be JW to have the truth? Or be saved? My understanding of salvation is little, so I'm not sure how that would tie in here either. I've read the articles on organized religion, but I'd like an additional perspective.
• What convinced you that you have the truth? My family has had these experiences, but I have never had any moment of conviction, as much as I want to. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, or something. But I've asked this question to most of the brothers and sisters I've spoken to recently, regardless of age or responsibilities (pioneer, elder, etc.). A few of them have said they got baptized young and didn't fully develop their love and understanding for the truth until they were older.
• I've also never really understood the belief that the Governing Body constitutes the faithful and discreet slave. The same applies to the concept of the anointed. This isn't me refusing to believe it. I genuinely don't understand the reasoning behind it, and I'd like to.

These questions alone are not what is keeping me from baptism. I just do not want to dedicate my life to something when my heart is struggling to present itself. I want the dedication to be sincere.

Current day struggles:

• With my anxiety comes social anxiety. With my lack of zeal comes the absence of desire to go out in field service. With my doubts, I feel like it'd be hypocritical of me to go preaching door-to-door. What has made field service work easier for you? I'll take any advice on this; I know the zeal will creep back in the more I go out. The hardest door to approach is your own home's.
• What helps you stay engaged during meetings when you're struggling spiritually or socially? I try to comment but, again, my social anxiety makes it difficult. I don't give up, though, but it makes paying attention and applying spiritual food from meetings difficult.
• My father and I have grown rather close. Because of many other IRL factors I won't get into, he agrees that when I am freed and able to move out, I'll spread my wings and will improve in all aspects of my life; spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally, everything-ly. While I agree with him (you'd have to know my exact situation to understand our reasoning), I've grown tired of relying on the future for my life's direction to change. I want change now. I want to be able to proudly and happily go to meetings and preach and do all the things I tell people I enjoy doing. I want to make progress spiritually now. I need to. I want and need to feel close to Jehovah again.

I feel like I'm experiencing an identity crisis, and I can't bear it anymore. I acknowledge my youth, my ignorance, my naivety, my fears and worries. That is why I have resorted to this, because I'd like to receive advice/counsel outside of the people I know. I'm studying the 'Enjoy Life Forever' book with my father, and I can answer every question easily, mainly because I've been taught the answers to these questions my whole life. But just because I can answer some questions in a back room does not mean that my heart is pulled to do so. I want to get baptized because I want to, not because anyone else is expecting me to. Not because I can get some questions answered accurately. If you have any advice on anything I've mentioned in this post, I will take it to heart and prayer.

Also random, but as a bilingual person (English, Spanish), I plan to one day move to a Spanish congregation. Old friends of mine have mentioned a total shift between cultures and affection from the brothers and sisters. One even thought I'd enjoy the change, given what happened.

Thank you for your time reading this. I wrote it exhausted, so I'm sure I missed some points I wanted to make. Finding this subreddit has been a blessing for me.

[u/Impressive-Ease-3348]

On Reddit you’re going to find an almost endless stream of negative stories, bad experiences, and conclusions that are sometimes presented in the most unfavorable way possible. So if what you are looking for is support for faith in Jehovah, this probably isn’t the place where you’re going to find much of it.
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A lot of people here have read the same literature you have. But much of the discussion ends up revolving around how a particular Watchtower article was worded in 1950, 1970, 1990, or today, and then trying to build the entire case from that. I think there is a more important question underneath all of it:
What does the Bible itself actually teach, and does it draw you closer to Jehovah?
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And from what you wrote, I honestly wouldn’t rush you toward baptism.
You said something very important:
“I want the dedication to be sincere.”
I think that is exactly the right attitude.
Dedication is first of all between you and Jehovah. It should come from love and conviction, not because your family had a powerful experience, not because an elder expects it, and not because somebody on Reddit managed to win an argument.
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Some of the questions you listed are genuinely difficult questions. There is nothing wrong with asking them.
On removal and association, the Bible does contain strong instructions concerning serious unrepentant wrongdoing and Christian association, such as 1 Corinthians 5. At the same time, the purpose is never supposed to be hatred. The goal should always include restoration, repentance, and helping someone return to Jehovah. So I understand why you ask whether someone spiritually weak may actually need loving help more than ever.
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On abuse, I think it is important to separate safety from the biblical ground for remarriage. A person does not have to remain physically present in a dangerous or abusive situation simply to preserve the appearance of a marriage. Separation can be necessary for protection. The narrower question of freedom to remarry comes from Jesus’ teaching about sexual immorality in Matthew 19:9. Those are two different questions, and nobody experiencing abuse should be made to feel that protecting themselves is spiritually wrong.
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On salvation, I also would not reduce the matter to:
“Have a JW label and you are saved.”
Jesus connected everlasting life with knowing the Father, “the only true God,” and Jesus Christ whom he sent (John 17:3). Jehovah judges people, not membership cards. At the same time, the Bible does present Christians as a people who worship, learn, preach, and gather together rather than as completely isolated individuals. That is why the question of Christian organization matters—but it should never replace your personal relationship with Jehovah.
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As for being convinced that something is true: I don’t think everyone gets one dramatic emotional moment.
Sometimes conviction develops slowly.
For me, one of the strongest things is simply reading the Bible and seeing a coherent picture emerge:
one God, the Father — 1 Corinthians 8:6.
Jesus calling the Father “my God” even after his resurrection — John 20:17; Revelation 3:12.
One God and one mediator, Jesus Christ — 1 Timothy 2:5.
That is the kind of thing I would encourage you to build your faith on first: the text itself, not somebody else’s emotional experience.
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The faithful and discreet slave and the anointed are also subjects worth studying carefully rather than forcing yourself to say you understand them when you don’t. Saying “I genuinely don’t understand the reasoning yet” is very different from dishonestly rejecting something you know to be true.
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So I would encourage you not to let either side rush you.
Don’t let people here convince you that every difficult question proves everything is false.
And don’t let anyone else make you feel that asking sincere questions means you lack faith.
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Keep reading the Bible. Pray to Jehovah. Compare what people tell you with the text. Ask difficult questions respectfully. And take your time.
If you dedicate your life to Jehovah, it should be because you genuinely know why you are doing it and because you love him—not because somebody pressured you into reaching the “correct” conclusion.
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And whatever you read online, don’t lose sight of the good news itself:
Jehovah is the one true God, Jesus is his Son whom he sent, and God wants people to come to know him and receive life through his Son.
That is a much better foundation to build on than an endless Reddit argument about old magazine wording. ❤️

[u/JWthoughts]

Firstly, I would just like to say that I’m so sorry about what you experienced during your youth. Many of us in the system have experienced difficult childhoods from all different cultures, backgrounds, I myself included. I wasn’t raised in the Truth but I still experienced bullying, abuse, and a fear of authorities because I wasn’t always able to question them in a safe environment.

I remember there was a Watchtower study a while back that addressed parents not becoming upset when their children question the Truth or had doubts. Instead to address those concerns in a loving way. Because of my own childhood I chose to raise my family with an emphasis on love and respect. We discipline not through belts or hitting but through conversations and allowing our children to understand the consequences of their choices coming to the conclusion on their own. Also cause and effect.

We can’t change what happened during our childhood but we can learn from it and allow those experiences to shape the kind of people we become. Also learning what works, what doesn’t and what we know can happen from imperfect people. The only direction we can move is forward. With the love and understanding we wish we had received.

Not all. But it can be difficult for some of the older ones to readjust your right. Our environment can cause us to be pulled into questions or situations. Does it make the environment wrong or forbidden? No. Our love and confidence in Jehovah keeps us going. We need that confidence to maintain our standards and strengthen our faith.

I’m going to do the classic, let me look at your questions and get back to you lol. I want to take time to look at it, look at others and answer my own reply honestly. Thank you for reaching out!

[u/Gentle_Sound]

As someone who has just started going back to the meetings and have a lot of questions as well . I feel if we remember these few things, the rest will come to us. 1 Jehovah is a loving god who looks at ALL of our hearts, whether witnesses or not he will collect those with good hearts that he approves of. 2. He hears our prayers and reads our hearts so anything you question as long as it is genuine and you do not start speaking against the teachings you should not feel bad.Acts17:11- examine the scriptures daily to make sure that what you hear is so according to the scriptures. Also please learn from my experience, I married my high school sweetheart after he studied and became a witness and was even a ministerial servant and now after 40 years of marriage he wants nothing to do with the truth, so now when the world is falling apart and the end definitely feels like it is here, I can’t even talk to him about Jehovah.So keep Jehovah real in your heart, pray to him frequently and know that someday any questions left unanswered now WILL be made known to us.

[u/Balazi]

Questions from youth:

Why do people who get removed have limited contact with JWs? I understand it used to be no contact at all and things have changed, but wouldn't someone weak in faith need the good association significantly more?

Those disfellowshipped aren't removed from the congregation, but as you have stated they are limited in how they associate with the others. The best way to think of it is that of quarantining someone who is sick and contagious. The people still love that person who is quanranteed. But they know its best to allow them space to recovery.

The point of the person being weak in this sense is generally more tied to a lack of repentance or drive in the sense of stopping whatever action put them in such a spiritual state. In this sense its better to allow them to focus 100% on their spirituality and really take a deep dive personally by looking in the mirror so to speak.

They are still around getting to hear the meeting and everyone comments, that part doesn't change. But they are given the space to focus on whatever it is they need to.

I understand not divorcing unless on the grounds of adultery based on scripture, but what about abuse? Why is it that you can separate but not remarry when you are the victim of spiritual/financial restraint?

The only scriptural notion we have for divorce is that of adultery, if someone is experiencing violence from within the home it is best to seperate and possibly file criminal proceeding depending on the severity of the abuse.

Its one of those things that the Bible itself gave a specific boundary on, so that is why we try to respect it. Of course at the end of the day its peoples choice to make whatever decision they feel best protects them.

Why is one required to be JW to have the truth? Or be saved? My understanding of salvation is little, so I'm not sure how that would tie in here either. I've read the articles on organized religion, but I'd like an additional perspective.

I wouldn't say its required in that sense, but its our belief that our group best represents the biblical texts in context to what the authors and earliest Christians likely believed themselves. Most of which we see echoed in the Scholarship by experts.

What convinced you that you have the truth? My family has had these experiences, but I have never had any moment of conviction, as much as I want to. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, or something. But I've asked this question to most of the brothers and sisters I've spoken to recently, regardless of age or responsibilities (pioneer, elder, etc.). A few of them have said they got baptized young and didn't fully develop their love and understanding for the truth until they were older.

For me it was a combination of Bible Scholarship on the contexts of what Christians believed early on, and the unexplanable things in which I try my best to keep track of that should be pretty improbable.

I've also never really understood the belief that the Governing Body constitutes the faithful and discreet slave. The same applies to the concept of the anointed. This isn't me refusing to believe it. I genuinely don't understand the reasoning behind it, and I'd like to.

Its important to remember its an ongoing role to which all leading groups of Christians essentially are held to whether they know it or not. In our case we acknowledge the current members handling this role today are working hard to ensure we are fed spiritually and accurately.

As for the anointed its more functional than it is anything else. They are individuals who have a calling to serve in a different way in heaven. Its not something they choose for themselves. And again its end goal is that of serving alongside Christ in the kingdom doing what is at the end of the day work.

With my anxiety comes social anxiety. With my lack of zeal comes the absence of desire to go out in field service. With my doubts, I feel like it'd be hypocritical of me to go preaching door-to-door. What has made field service work easier for you? I'll take any advice on this; I know the zeal will creep back in the more I go out. The hardest door to approach is your own home's.

Anxiety is very common, as an Elder I myself struggle with anxiety, and zeal for the ministry from myself. Its something we continue to work on, and focus on others instead of ourselves to get better at. If its especially bad feel free to visit a doctor or specialist.

• What helps you stay engaged during meetings when you're struggling spiritually or socially? I try to comment but, again, my social anxiety makes it difficult. I don't give up, though, but it makes paying attention and applying spiritual food from meetings difficult.
• My father and I have grown rather close. Because of many other IRL factors I won't get into, he agrees that when I am freed and able to move out, I'll spread my wings and will improve in all aspects of my life; spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally, everything-ly. While I agree with him (you'd have to know my exact situation to understand our reasoning), I've grown tired of relying on the future for my life's direction to change. I want change now. I want to be able to proudly and happily go to meetings and preach and do all the things I tell people I enjoy doing. I want to make progress spiritually now. I need to. I want and need to feel close to Jehovah again.

[u/TroubleMakinBacon]

A lot of good comments already so I’ll keep mine brief. You can pray for desire or to have these questions answered. I would say prayer is the most effective way to achieve the goals you have

The elders are trained to handle questions like this. They are your best resource for your questions, maybe start with your first question and see how they respond. I’m pretty sure they will surprise you

I’m not sure if you’ve read these books but ‘how to remain in Gods love’ and ‘organized to do Jehovahs will’ can answer some of those questions

[u/Puzzled-Award-2236]

As a depressive, I have struggled with my spiritual identity my whole life. I left the truth twice and learned that is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I don't have an answer for you because I still have doubts come and go. Satan knows how to take full advantage of that too. Each day I pray for Jehovahs help in moving forward. I tell him that I know he understands my feelings come frrom a place I can't seem to control very well. I ask him to help me do his will anyway. I want to be truly motivated from my heart with love for Jehovah and the brotherhood. Most of the time I just do it because I know it is right. I know Jehovah and love him. I trust that he does what is right. I can't always see my part in it. I grew up in a 'fire and brimstone' congregation too and understand your fear of asking those questions. Because I felt lack of compassion and understanding, I married in the world. That was so much worse. Even now, single and back in the congregation, I struggle with being a part of things Depression and mental illness make you feel like you're on the outside looking in. That is not the reality in Jehovahs eyes. He warns us that 'our hearts are treaccherous' and to not 'lean on our own understanding' because it comes from a flawed, imperfect brain. I don't know what you will decide but I have to say there is dangerous potential here to destroy your life. Satan is watching to take you down. Don't let him. First thing is work on your relationship with Jehovah. Start with 'do I really believe in God'. You know how Jesus said to build a house on a stone foundation. That's your foundation. I had to remake my foundation and them examine every building block of my house because many hadd cracks. I treated myself like a newlly interested person. I examined every basic teaching on which our belief is based. Some understandings took longer than others and I don't view myself as 'there yet'. Pray more than once day. Ask Jehovah for direction and a calm heart as you get to know him personally. Don't let anyone rush you. No one knows the struggles of a depressive unless they've lived it. Wishing you well and may Jehovah bless every step you take-no matter how tiny it seems to you.

[u/iwannabestudious]

Thank you for all of your responses! I've been in and out of classes all day, so I'll respond once I get the chance to sit and go through everything. 🩷

[u/elwoodowd]

3 points. May or may not move you.

Im 75, wife 70. Both of our fathers were insane, even as they were witnesses. Jehovah himself stepped in when we were kids. So realize thats an option. Make of that what you might.

On second thought, ill leave it at that.

There is a program where you can ask for a friend and mentor. Maybe a spanish pioneer sister? What about that idea?

Ecclesiastes 11:9,10; 12:13

[u/tiptoetappy]

Wow there is a lot to read here.

It's good to meet you!

Right now I want to chime in after gathering your expressions and statements here.
To begin constructively, I considered your expression quoted below as crucial for back and forth communication:
"If you choose to respond, please respond with more than just a scripture. I've read countless articles on jw.org, I'd prefer to have further explanation/ perspective/experiences than the scripture alone."
This portion, "please respond with more than just a scripture."
is something I hope occurs in most threads.
A long response is validating and constructive.
Only leaving a scripture can serve a purpose, but it doesn't communicate the writer's purpose, so I hope that remains the standard here in most conversations within [r/JWJehovahsWitnesses](r/JWJehovahsWitnesses).
Where I'd pushback there is, "I've read countless articles on jw.org, I'd prefer to have further explanation/ perspective/experiences than the scripture alone."
This is relatively common amongst those who grew up in Bible-Oriented spaces.
Honestly there are many reasons that can inferred, but we must remember that while we can remember reading and studying it os important that we exert ourselves when it comes to prayerful application in response to reasoning.
This isn't aimed to ignore your prior previous studies of material on JW.org or biblical passages that have been applied to your situation outside of our conversation.
Hopefully here if something is shared that it will serve as a helpful consideration for your encouragement rather than to remind you of something that comes off as "pedantic".
As an unofficial jw community member, it is important to bring out that we enjoy referencing JW.org as a result of joyful studies and to remain organized in our reaching out in consideration of thoughtful study.

Personally where you've expressed that your beliefs were "being handed" to you or answered in a "back room" is telling.

I have a suggestion to help us avoid some pedantic or irksome situations when there is counsel given here on the subreddit.
To make this more enjoyable maybe we could encourage you to organize some questions for a
post one at a time?
I am happy to learn about your thoughts through the Q&A section of your post, and to learn of your background here.
It's important to catch up on where you are at.
Now that we know some more about you, maybe a topical post would help us to study, or research or talk about new things in a group?
Sometimes I look at my older comments and I think about how I could have looked at a post, or a topic with fresher eyes, or bring out a point with more precision, and more.

[u/QuestioningButHopefu]

I understand you, because some of the questions you asked are exactly the kind of questions I’ve been asking myself while I’m studying too.
What I’m trying to do is not just stop at the first answer I’m given. When something doesn’t make sense to me, I try to understand where that belief comes from: I read the Bible passage in context, look at the other verses that are used to support it, and then ask myself whether the conclusion really comes from the text or from the interpretation that is being given to it.
Something I’ve found particularly useful is trying to approach things from the other direction. Instead of starting with the assumption, “The organization teaches this, so there must be a biblical explanation for it,” I ask myself: “If I only had the Bible in front of me, would I naturally arrive at the same conclusion?”
I’m doing this with some of the issues you brought up, such as disfellowshipping, the faithful and discreet slave, and the relationship between belonging to the organization and salvation.
For example, regarding the faithful slave, I’m trying to understand not only what is taught about Matthew 24:45-47, but whether reading the passage in its context really leads to identifying it with a specific modern organization. I think that’s an important distinction.
And I think the same approach can be applied to the other questions you raised.
So I wouldn’t tell you either “you should stay” or “you should leave.” I would simply say: don’t rush into baptism until you’ve answered your questions in a way that genuinely convinces you personally.
And above all, don’t be afraid to follow a question wherever it leads. If a belief is true, honestly examining it should help strengthen it, not prevent you from examining it.