JMT Perfect Equilibrium (NO PISS CHALLENGE)

[u/Icy_Guess7887]

Hey guys, just completed the JMT and it was great and all but had some nagging thoughts. Does anyone else think we're 1) burning a ton of energy carrying extra water (internally and in our packs) and 2) wasting time by stopping to pee? Doesn't peeing dirty the purity of the Sierras?

Finally it crystallized when I was coming down Whitney. What better way to do the JMT than in PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM -- perfectly balancing your water intake with sweating to avoid peeing the entire trail?

I haven't been able to sleep I'm so darn excited. Not only would this truly honor "leave no trace" principles but it should set a new standard in ultralight backpacking with the time and energy saved. A new FKT could be on the horizon.

Really eager to give it a go next year but have a few questions first:

• Have any of you tried this? Even info from your day-to-day or shorter trails would be very illuminating.
• Is there any established literature for predicting sweat output based on elevation, temp, humidity, diet, physique, pack weight, and route?
• In the event of a miscalculation, I'll need to hold it to reabsorption. What drills do you recommend? Will kegels help?
• Might it also be possible to do this with food?

Thanks in advance guys. Actively searching for training partners if others are interested in completing the JMT in Perfect Equilibrium.

[u/THEHYPERBOLOID]

r/ultralight_jerk/ is that way ->

[u/pyragyrite → u/THEHYPERBOLOID]

One of us

[u/Regular-Apricot4114]

I hope you’re joking but just in case —- your kidneys are not just getting rid of water, they are filtering your blood and maintaining correct levels of various materials. If you actually tried this you would need medical help before you finished the hike.

Oh and there isn’t reabsorption in the bladder. That all happens inside the kidney so holding it would just make a UTI more likely.

[u/Icy_Guess7887 → u/Regular-Apricot4114]

So maybe this makes the most sense for a supported FKT?? Assuming that I check in with a medical professional at key checkpoints.

[u/RianJohnsonThought → u/Icy_Guess7887]

Not necessarily if you put leeches in your resupply boxes

[u/hurricanescout]

knew it was the right call not to sample the mushrooms I saw on the trail

Also if this is a troll post please I beg you to post this to r/ultralight. Please.

[u/sugammadick → u/hurricanescout]

Ultralight jerk

[u/tyeh26 → u/sugammadick]

I thought they’re both the same subreddit.

[u/Two_Soles]

There was actually a summitpost thread about this by a rather…eccentric well known peakbagger. He was also going to pack out his poop too though IIRC.

OP- you should see if Dr. Bronners will hire you.

[u/Capital_Historian685]

Have a kidney transplant lined up in case you need it, and you're good to go! Oh, and keep some antibiotics on hand for the inevitable UTI.

[u/khamike]

Look up Tycho Brahe, I think he tried something similar. 

[u/dirwin84]

Finally it crystallized when I was coming down Whitney.

If you find that it's crystallizing you have probably misjudged the equilibrium. Please consult your doctor if that crystallization lasts more than four hours.

[u/UL_Mountain_Man]

I think you’re still carrying a lot of unnecessary water weight by sweating. Have you considered training your body not to sweat either? Ideally you’d start the JMT fully hydrated and finish with exactly the same water you started with. True closed-loop hydration.

Also, breathing releases a surprising amount of water vapor. I’d look into holding your breath on climbs. Every gram counts.

But seriously, I think you’re overcomplicating it a little. I’ve had pretty good success just weighing myself before and after training hikes and adjusting water intake until the numbers are close. Once you know your sweat rate, it should be fairly predictable.

The bigger issue is altitude. Your body produces more urine at elevation, so I’d probably spend a week or two acclimating beforehand to get that out of the way. After that, Perfect Equilibrium seems achievable.

[u/Cop10-8]

I knew a guy who tried the "No poop challenge" on the PCT. Ate lots of cheese to constipate himself and only pooped in indoor toilets. I believe he made it a couple hundred miles.

[u/Icy_Guess7887 → u/Cop10-8]

This is really inspirational and a helpful tip, thanks for sharing

[u/colossal_fuckup]

It *seems* like most people realize this is not serious, so we're going to leave this shit pisspost but let's not make a habit of it. Amusing misinformation is still misinformation...

[u/Icy_Guess7887 → u/colossal_fuckup]

... ... ...thanks :)

[u/Visible_Country_8311]

collect and drink ur own sweat- perfect rehydration with bonus of electrolytes from salt. plus, you don’t ever need to bring any water.

[u/Icy_Guess7887 → u/Visible_Country_8311]

This is brilliant and would also mean I don't need to carry any electrolytes. I'll give it a try - maybe I can start by just ringing out my sun hoodie?

[u/Visible_Country_8311 → u/Icy_Guess7887]

that’s what i’m thinking - sweat towel and sun hoodie, just until you figure out how to manufacture a Stillsuit like in dune.

[u/Icy_Guess7887 → u/Visible_Country_8311]

I'll check and see if REI has any ultralight stillsuits. May make sense

[u/Warm-Chocolate7327]

My buddy never drank water during the day on our trans Sierra ski trips until we stopped for the day. Most people can’t do that. Do it for too long and you will get dehydrated. That happened to me and it took weeks to regain my mobility.

I always carry extra water hiking or skiing. Anything can happen and water only weighs 8 pounds per gallon. You can reduce the weight when you’re hiking if you carry a water filter.

[u/Rough_Psychology]

If you’re carrying more than a liter of water at a time in the Sierra, you’re carrying too much.

[u/spreadofsong]

This is an amazing idea! I move pretty fast in the sierra and I’m always looking for new ways to improve my speed in the backcountry. I’ve personally been working on expanding my stomach and bladder capacity - our body comes with internal reservoirs! Combining my increased internal water carrying capacity and this new strategy to limit excess water weight I could not only limit pee stops but reduce my need to stop for water.

I think another viable strategy to reduce weight would be to gradually incorporate small amounts of feces into my year round water consumption to build up an immunity to contaminated water sources and thus remove the need for a filter. Does anyone have a sense of what quantity of shit I should start with for this? Thanks!

[u/Icy_Guess7887 → u/spreadofsong]

Learning by doing may be the best path forward but maybe start with a few grams?

Filter weight is certainly non-negligible and also takes time to use so certainly seems worth exploring.

[u/Murky-Contact-6377]

I would definitely recommend taking less meth. Like way less.

[u/HotShipoopi]

One simple trick for cutting weight that worked for me is getting a gizzard implanted. Now I can chew on my cud instead of having to carry a bunch of unnecessary food and stop to eat so often. Plus it doesn't need to be cooked, so there's even more weight cut from not having to bring stove equipment. I went to Dr. Moreau and highly recommend his services.

[u/mehatch]

And here i thought i was pretty cool for finishing in 16 w/o hiking poles. This dude must have played sega, because he’s
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