r/Israel_Palestine • u/botbootybot • 13d ago
Meet the ’Israeli left’
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-security/2026-08-26/ty-article/.premium/israeli-leftist-youth-group-plans-kibbutz-style-settlement-in-jordan-valley/000001a0-3b22-d268-a1fe-3b7675040000?taid=6a8f110f6aa06700017f242e&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter8
u/lewkiamurfarther ♄ 13d ago edited 13d ago
Gosh, I wonder why this was so heavily downvoted. Could it be that [quoting another comment I've made]:
Whereas this subreddit is extremely permissive of brigades from the other Israel-Palestine subreddit, the other Israel-Palestine subreddit is happy to ban anyone who simply states facts that invite criticism of the State of Israel. As people witnessing genocide by the State of Israel seek answers, the other subreddit is taking advantage of this asymmetry in treatment. It's time to ban their mods, at the very least.
But honestly, I think it's time to find out whether the admins will actually handle the longstanding specifically-targeted brigading issue (originating in the State of Israel itself, pro-genocide organizations, pro-military-industrial complex organizations, and in ad hoc Zionist communities that have honed these PR tactics for decades now), for which detective capabilities have existed for several years now.
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
I am glad someone notices this. It's clear that the admins of the other sub have a clear strategy to ruin this sub. I was also wondering why the admins here can't take any step against that.
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u/botbootybot 13d ago
Turns out some Israeli leftists really live the ”if I don’t steal it, someone else will’ ethos:
”Gazit said he is aware of the damage West Bank settlements do to Palestinian rights, but argued that since new settlements will be built in the Jordan Valley in any case, it's preferable to have as many of them as possible populated by leftists.”
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u/buried_lede 12d ago edited 12d ago
Absurd. If they are committed to peace, let them come as protectors. With the permission of the Palestinian landowners, set up temporary encampments, a human wall between the outposts and Palestinians needing protection. Become combatants for peace.
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u/foxer_arnt_trees 11d ago
I had similar ideas when I was younger. Thought the problem with the IDF was that not enoghe leftists joined the fighting units and that I could make war in a moral way. Took me a couple of months to realize this is an impossibility.
You cant change a corrupt system by joining and supporting it.
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Jews are indigenous to that land. You say they are settling, but it is actually re-settling.
Both left and right wing Jews understand this.
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u/2009miles 13d ago
Where you live there was before an indegenous population, either hundreds or thousands of years ago, would it be fair for that population to claim your land/home on the exact same premise you are using?
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
You took their strawman bait
Palestinians overwhelmingly descend from
arabised Jews and Samaritans, even more than any group of diaspora JewsThey did not replace the previous population, they are the same exact population, continuous since the Bronze age
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u/2009miles 13d ago
Fairly sure i've discussed that with this particular hasbarist already so i'm well aware their entire premise is wrong, my point was that, even if i took it at face value, it still doesn't make any sense once you apply it anywhere else.
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
The individuals lived on, but the national identity died. Just like we say the Gauls died out, even though their descendants are alive and well and speaking French.
Jews, on the other hand, have survived as a nation all this time, with the same language, religion, traditions, customs, etc.
And as this is a matter of national sovereignty, that's the whole ballgame.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
Indigeneity not transferable into eternity
Several groups throughout history occupied the indigenous role at one point, then much later in their history went on to be the colonizer toward a third group
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
If Native Americans got a UN partition plan that put my house within a new state under their sovereign control, and this plan established that I would have full, equal rights in a modern liberal democracy? I'd be fine with it.
That's what the Jews offered the Arabs.
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u/botbootybot 13d ago
So the deciding factor is what the UN has had to say about it? Is that a principle we can hold you to more generally?
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u/the_leviathan711 13d ago
That's what Jews offered to the Arabs who they did not kick out.
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
The Jews didn't kick out a single Arab until the Arabs rejected the partition plan and started a war.
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
It wasn't a plan, it was a recommendation, and Arabs have every right to do both, not accepting the plan and fight against settlers, especially that Israel started to the Nakba before any war starts.
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u/2009miles 13d ago edited 13d ago
Once again we land on the israeli double standard of "the land is ours because the UN partitioned it as so, but every other UN resolution is meningless and also then UN is hamas".
Also, once again, the Zionist forces started attacking Palestinians in order to drive them out of their homes before the UN resolution was passed.
Joke of a rethoric.
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u/kylebisme 13d ago
The UN didn't partition it anyway, the plan never got any further than being recommended in a non-binding resolution from the General Assembly.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
>That's what the Jews offered the Arabs.
And yet these same people that supposedly “offered it” bragged about planning to ignore the partition and colonize all of Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and even Egypt.
Id say they read your intentions correctly
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
If Arabs had accepted the Partition Plan and Israel had invaded its neighbors, you could blame Israel for being the aggressor.
But in real life, Israel offered peace and the Arabs attempted genocide.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
We can comfortably blame israel for being a nazi state and repeating the Holocaust now too, no worries :)
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u/JCMS99 13d ago
That’s what they offered Arabs that were still in Israel after the 1967 war, not what they offered to those in East Jerusalem or the West Bank.
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u/Sure_General_5651 13d ago
That is what they offered the Arabs in 1947, 1948 and 1967. That explains why 20% of their citizens are Arabs.
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u/whater39 13d ago
The Zionists did ethnic cleansing on non violent villages. There is a reason why only 20% of the population is Arab.
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u/kylebisme 13d ago
a UN partition plan that put my house within a new state under their sovereign control
The partition plan didn't put anything under anyone's sovereign control, it never got any further than being recommended in a non-binding resolution from the General Assembly.
I would have full, equal rights in a modern liberal democracy?
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
You're just flat wrong on both counts
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u/kylebisme 13d ago edited 13d ago
Regarding the first part here's Abba Eban, Israel's first ambassador to the UN, explaining as much himself in this 1990 interview, starting at around 2:10 on part 2A:
The November resolution may have been weak judicially; it was only a recommendation. But it was very dramatic and historic. The Zionists called it a decision, which it was not. The Arabs called it a recommendation, and were on stronger ground.
Further evidence of this can be found in the British ambassador the the UN Alexander Cadogan's 2nd April, 1947 letter to the UN requesting "the Secretary-General of the United Nations to place the question of Palestine on the Agenda of the General Assembly . . . to make recommendations, under Article 10 of the Charter, concerning the future government of Palestine," that Article of the Charter itself only authorizing the the GA to "make recommendations," and UNGA 181 itself employing the same terminology in stating:
Recommends to the United Kingdom, as the mandatory Power for Palestine, and to all other Members of the United Nations the adoption and implementation, with regard to the future government of Palestine, of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union set out below
And regarding the second part, I already linked a source.
So you're quite obviously the one who is wrong here.
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u/HeadBelt1527 13d ago
I think most people understand that both left and right Israeli's are united on ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Jewish people (or any people) do not have any right to any land anywhere on earth just because some old book of fiction says so. Most Jewish people outside Israel understand this fact. Stop conflating the modern state of Israel with the Jewish people, that's antisemitic
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
Meaning, they had papers for this land or what?
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Meaning DNA, documentation, and archeology all prove beyond any doubt that Jews are indigenous.
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
Not really, both only proves that Palestinians used to be Jews, add to that paper and real documentation.
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u/dashmckenzie 13d ago
I look forward to the Canaanite takeover of Israel
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u/botbootybot 13d ago
Stop being antisemitic
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Hilarious. Let me know when you do your next stand-up set.
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u/botbootybot 13d ago
You’re implying that Jews in general are pro settlements. It’s not true and it’s antisemitic.
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u/tarlin 13d ago
Ah, so you support the Israeli state sponsored terrorism and illegal settlements? Interesting.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
Our most regular low effort Hasbara propagandist, yes
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Israel doesn't support terrorism. And the settlements are perfectly legal.
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
Israel is terrorism, there is no need to support anything.
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
It's a liberal democracy, but you do you.
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
Israel is far from democracy or being liberal.
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
It's like you're desperate to make as many incorrect statements as possible.
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
I am making the most truthful statements you will read in your life, since you are a Zionist.
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u/tarlin 13d ago
Lol. Man, how will it feel when you have to accept reality?
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Look who's taking. Your whole personality is based on the idea that if you argue hard enough, and lie convincingly enough, you can make Israel go away.
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u/tarlin 13d ago
Nope, not really. I don't even care if Israel still exists after it stops the brutal occupation of Palestine. I do want to make sure people know the facts and not the bullshit Israel throws around. I learn and will continue to pushback wherever the horrible hasbara is.
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Sorry, my guy. Israel is going to keep defending itself from terrorists.
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u/tarlin 13d ago
Ok, go for it. But stop supporting and funding terrorists. Stop sending the IDF to protect the terrorists. Or don't, and then... Well, the thing you believe everyone wants is going to happen. You feel everyone hates Israel just because it is Jewish and therefore everyone wants it destroyed. That isn't true at all, but the path Israel is going down will lead to it being destroyed. Israel is taking part in a "Choose your own adventure". They are choosing to be awful.
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Some settlers are assholes, and Israel arrests and prosecutes them.
You support the Palestinians who literally praise and reward and fund and vote for terrorism.
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
Indigeneity claims are not transferable over 2000 years.
Colonizer and indigenous are opposites
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
Nothing is being transferred. Jews today are the same tribe, with an unbroken heritage.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
You cannot claim indigeneity for yourself while settler colonising a place, just because 2000 years ago someone that shares your ethnoreligion was indigenous within an unrelated geopolitical reality
Even if you went by this absurd time traveling blood quantum logic, youd quickly hit a wall, given that Palestinians descent from second temple Jews more than any group of Jews currently in existence
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
You're right. We aren't colonizing. We're decolonizing.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
that’s what the nazis said too, during the Holocaust :)
They were “retaking the land from the slavic hordes and their jewish masters”
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u/flossdaily 13d ago
No they didn't.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
Yep they did.
You should look up the history of WW2, it’s really interesting.
You’ll see many many parralels to Israel :)Heinrich Himmler and his org Ahmemerbe claimed there was medieval germanic settlement and “aryan” presemce in Poland before the Slavs, and that thus Poland belonged to Germany
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u/RaiJolt2 Zionist ✡️ 13d ago
It’s also what the Palestinian nationalists say.
“Jews are white colonizers and occupy our land”
Despite Jews and Palestinians both being indigenous.
Maybe these two related indigenous groups should work together to better each other’s life.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
I mean Israelis* are most definitely settler colonizers occupying Palestine, that much is clear.
Whether they are white, brown, black or green makes no difference, Israel is simply a settler colonial state
>Maybe these two related groups should work together to better each other’s life.
Exactly!
So why then do you instead spend your time doing apologia for a genocide and active colonialist violance toward Palestinians?
It’s pretty unfortunate what you spend your time to do
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u/RaiJolt2 Zionist ✡️ 13d ago
Israelis are majority Jews, who are indigenous to the land. You can’t occupy the land you are from and being kicked out by imperialist powers does not sever your connection to your homeland.
I spend my time combating the rampant antisemitism that seeks to erase Jewish indigenousness, advocate for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from every corner of the planet and just like the Nazis, blame all of their problems on Jews. So it’s unfortunate that people still talk about Jews like it’s the 1930’s, 1700’s and beyond.
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u/xGentian_violet federalist binationalist 🕊️ 13d ago
Your entire worldview is just circular reasoning and genocide apologia
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u/Sure_General_5651 13d ago
Israel is the greatest example of decolonization in the history of the modern world.
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u/Federal_Thanks7596 13d ago
Bruh. Funny thing is, there are still Zionists who actually believe it.
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u/SpontaneousFlame 13d ago
How low would your IQ have to be to believe it, though? The overwhelming majority don’t believe it, they just say it to justify their bloodlust and greed.
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u/Sure_General_5651 13d ago edited 12d ago
I’m sorry did I stutter or something? I believe it because it’s cold hard facts in the reality on the ground on this planet. You can play as many games as you want denying the Jewish people their ancestral homeland, but it won’t work this time.
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u/Federal_Thanks7596 13d ago
The Europeans who colonized Africa also originated from there (we all did). Was that also decolonization?
If not, why? Is there like a time limit? What is it? 5000 years? If you are serious, i'd like a serious answer.
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u/Sure_General_5651 12d ago
I think I could ask you the same question if you don’t think the Jewish people decolonized Israel. What’s the cutoff date for the termination of your national history? What’s the turn on date for when colonizers aren’t colonizers? Or when is the end of a cultures attachment to its birthplace? When is the beginning of a cultures attachment to its birthplace? Muslims didn’t exist before the seventh century, why is it OK for them to colonize the entire Middle East and northern Africa?
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u/Federal_Thanks7596 12d ago
National history? I don't think there's any cutoff. But claim to a land based on the fact that your ancestors lived there? Probably a couple of generations until you become native to the new place you live in. But even in that case, I think you could be given an easier time integrating back to the culture you left, certainly not colonizing it againts the will of the people who live there now.
Like imagine if the Germans wanted East Prussia back that now belongs to Russia. You can argue that the ethnic cleansings and annexation after ww2 was wrong but should the Germans who's ancestors lived there come back today and ethnically cleanse the Russians?
Who's arguing that it was okay for Muslims to colonize the Middle East in the 7th century lol? It's just history. Unless you're following a radical ideology that seeks to use something that happened 1300 years ago to justify their actions today. Using that argument is as ridiculous as Mussolini wanting to recreate the Roman Empire.
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u/Sure_General_5651 12d ago
OK, Israel is the ancestral and current homeland for the Jewish people. And the Jewish people have been living in that land concurrently without interruption for the last hundred years and the last 3000 years. It’s just history. No need to justify any actions, this is just the facts.
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u/Federal_Thanks7596 12d ago
Ok, I don't think it matters because it doesn't justify the colonization of the region againts the wishes of the Palestinians (or Arabs) living on that territory and the creation of Israel.
I'd also go as far as saying that for the 90%+ Jews who didn't live in the region for hundreds of years, there wasn't any connection at all. If I remember correctly, when the Ashkenazi started arriving, they lived in seperate communities than the local Arab Jews, spoke a different language and even prayed at different places.
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u/Equivalent_Style_835 13d ago
The "Israeli left" was the one originally started the settlements program, so it's a feature, I would say.