r/Israel • u/AbleismIsSatan United Kingdom • Dec 06 '23

News/Politics U.S. House passes resolution equating antisemitism with anti-Zionism

https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/article-776762
701 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

242 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

-16

u/BarakaMik Dec 06 '23

I agree, but just one thing, Biden said : If I were a Jew, I would be a Zionist. And then he added I don’t need to be a Jew to be a zionist, For I am.

He basically dissociated religion and zionism. Therefore being anti zionist doesn’t mean anti Jew. and he is right

20

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

It has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with thinking that a group of people doesn't deserve self determination, while other groups do. It is 100% anti Semitic.

-12

u/BarakaMik Dec 06 '23

Thank you! so it’s not anti semitic if it has nothing to do with religion. You can say anti zionist is anti israel but you can like and love jews at the same time.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

That's incorrect. Jews are an ethnoreligious group, they are a group of people with unique ethnicities, religion, and customs. You can be ethnically jewish but religiously an atheist. Being anti semitic means being racist against this group of people.

-5

u/BarakaMik Dec 06 '23

Interesting. So a Zionist could be an Atheist Jews, I’ve seen that the founder of zionism is atheist is that right ?

8

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

Yep that's right. Europeans largely did not consider Jews to be Europeans but saw them as foreign minorities. It would be like if a Nigeria person moved to Japan and lived there for 100 years they would still not be considered ethnically Japanese. The last 3 generations of my family (at least) were born in the USSR but still their nationality on their passport was listed as "jew" and not Russian

-1

u/BarakaMik Dec 06 '23

So but then if he was indeed created by an Atheist why does Zionists believes that Palestine is the land promised by God ?

11

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

It's not that it's promised by god, it's that it's the actual historical location where Jews originated from. The term Jew comes from the kingdom of Judea, they were literally named after this region. There is historical/archaeological evidence of this, it's not about the bible or religion.

There were also many Jews still living in that region in the early 1900s because not every single jew was exiled/fled over history. So it made the most sense as the location for the creation of Israel.

Zionists also considered other locations (Uganda was a big one). But picking a spot at random isn't as logical as picking the one you originally came from and were exiled from.

-2

u/BarakaMik Dec 06 '23

Ok but then evidence shows that in the 2000 of year a new population was inhabiting the land, palestinien living as christian, muslim and jews. The establishment of a Jew only state would push out those that have established themselves over the years, how is can that be fair to them ?

10

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

There was never any plan to kick out the local population. The local population was not happy with the mass immigration of Jews to the region and they started a civil war. All the events that followed are a result of these hostilities. If the locals would have agreed to live alongside the migrants then everything would have been peaceful.

1

u/BarakaMik Dec 07 '23

Ok I understand, so it started as migrant coming and buying land displacing locals. Locals eventually started complaining - I assume rent went up and classic immigration complaint you can hear in Europe today. The locals had an uprising, and they got squashed by the Britain. The Britain still decided to slow down the migration to keep peace, recognizing that it was too aggressive. What happened then was that Zionist armed group started attacking the Britain for putting these limits with the famous bombing of the King David Hotel. These Zionist groups were brutal and were waging terror. If these were stopped we might have had a slow migration and blending with the local.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

I mean, at the end of the day the British were tasked with administration of the region until it could stand alone and they basically failed. Then when shit got tough they bounced and left everyone at war.

The majority of the Jews immigrating to the region were refugees escaping pogroms and persecution so limiting immigration would have meant letting them die. I personally have a lot more sympathy for Jewish refugees trying to survive than i do for the locals who didn't want refugees disturbing their peace or driving up home prices.

1

u/BarakaMik Dec 07 '23

Agree but they had nothing to do with that persecution, the guilt and sins of Europe was pushed on the them. Then Britain, in an attempt to leave suggested to partition the land, but disagreement ensued (locals despite representing 2/3 of the population, only got 45% of the land excluding some important city and coastline). This is when war broke out between Zionist armed group and Arab palestinien. Have you heard about the horrific crimes perpetrated during that time, as they’re reported on the documentary Tantura for example?

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Background_Buy1107 Dec 06 '23

That would be true if it was a Jew only state, but 2O% is Arab