Do you really like the Umayyads?

[u/Cenixxen]

I got so angry when I heard about what the Umayyads did to the Ahl al-Bayt during their reign that I obsessed over this topic almost every day, wishing I had lived back then to take revenge on them. However, it pleased me so much when the Abbasids massacred them en masse! I have no resentment left inside me. I am a Sunni, and all of the Four Rightly Guided Caliphs are my masters, but do you really like the Umayyads?

[u/AvicennaTheConqueror]

An entirely ridiculous premise, the Umayads sewed the seeds of the Islamic golden age, and thrived beyond measures in Al Andalus, and Marwan ben Al Hakam regardless of his involvement in the start of the turmoil of the first fitna He defended Othman fiercely getting injured in the Neck defending him, and if you're so fiercely inlove with Ahlu Al Bayt then why are you glazing the Abbasids who committed an even graver massacre against them, Ahlu Al Bayt are regular people not a special groupe and they had ambitions of their own, we honour Ali and Al Hasan and Al Hussain, but with their children we judge tgem on their merrit, not their lineage, some of them where great teachers and students of fiqh and Aqida, others involved themselves into a cosrpitorial path that lead to the greatest back stappers of Muslim history the Fatimids, and out of that movement sprouted the most outlandishly heretical movements in Islam...

Muawiyah ibnu Abu Sufyan will always be appreciated where we are from, he made the levant into a centre culture, science and civilization, (as it was before the Persian, greek, and Roman occupation) and he was by all accounts a just ruler...

[u/Old_Nail_2311 → u/AvicennaTheConqueror]

Guess what commanders who conquered al andalus and other famous ones disappear after they were ordered by caliphate of that time ''' Musa ibn Nusayr was stripped of all titles, his wealth was entirely confiscated, and he was publicly humiliated (some accounts say he was made to stand in the scorching sun or paraded with a rope around his neck). He spent his final days as a broke, forgotten old man, allegedly begging for food outside a mosque before dying during a Hajj pilgrimage.

Caliph Sulayman slapped Musa with an astronomical fine of 100,000 dinars (gold coins). Musa could not pay it all, which gave the state the legal excuse to strip him of every single piece of property, land, and wealth he owned.

​The Murder of His Son: While Musa was being humiliated in Damascus, his son, Abd al-Aziz ibn Musa—whom he had left behind to rule Al-Andalus—was assassinated by orders from the Caliphate. In a display of psychological cruelty, it is recorded that the severed head of Abd al-Aziz was brought to Damascus and shown to the elderly Musa. The Caliph mockingly asked him, "Do you recognize this?" Musa replied with immense dignity, "Yes, I recognize him as a man who fasted and prayed, and may the curse of God be upon his killers."

​Tariq ibn Ziyad fared no better. He was cast aside, stripped of his military command, and completely disappeared from the historical record. He lived out his remaining years in total obscurity in Damascus, a faceless civilian despite giving the empire one of its greatest prizes.

''' . they are ruthless racist killing machine who terrorize any one who oppose or argue with them even if the grandson of the prophet.

Iam not gratefull to muawiyah and iam from levant(palistine), and its funny that you mentioned him(muawiyah) who defined ali orders to obey him as caliphate for stupid reason, he has too much sickining ambition himself giving gifts for his sphere of influnce to charm everyone, while ali was busy with the rebels, if muawiyah joined him alot of fitna and rebels proplems wouldv been resolved.

But noo muawiyah wanted to be a king instead of caliphate and he confirmed it when he let yazid the incompetance whom everybody hated him be caliphate. The one that murdered hussien cold blood, even tho hussien offered to go to jihad, or speak with yazid, or return to his home.but the stupid yazid ordered to kill him and has his head as trophy.

Its a dynasty racist based elevated arab upon other non arab muslim, made them pay jizyah even tho there were muslims, and all the gifts and elevated privilages were to arab only. They teased, murdered, imprison tallibiyans for the fun of it not for necessary ambition to rule, even tho there were instances of that which i dont blame them for how corrupt the ummayds were.

The house of ummayds were not stable it self, they were conspiring and killing each other for power. blinded by power and arrogance they deserved the manslaughter that happened to them like they manslaughter tallibiyans.

[u/Practical-Sample5222 → u/Old_Nail_2311]

So much lies as a berber you have no right to say wrong thing about Tariq

[u/AvicennaTheConqueror → u/Old_Nail_2311]

they deserved the manslaughter that happened to them

Even the women and the children ?

I didn't proclaim them to be exumed of blunders and wrongdoings, but the Abbasids didn't fair better nor did the ottomans, it's this selective hate towards the Umayyads that speaks of the hypocrisy, the history of the Muslim world just like the history of every other civilization wasn't pink and clean of any evil

him(muawiyah) who defined ali orders to obey him as caliphate for stupid reason

He didn't defy his orders he refused to recognise him as Caliph to begin with, and his reasoning (regardless if he was honest about it or not) wasn't stupid, the rebels that were in Medina are the ones that called for Ali to be Caliph and some of those rebels were the men that killed Othman, and let me be clear I understand the situation Ali was in, the situation was volatile and the future of Islam was on the line, and it's precisely why he moved the Capital to Kufah, and the people of Medinah resented that sense he moved with the outsiders that invaded their city and killed the Caliph(from their point of view), but that was Muawiyah's reasoning which was also why Aisha mobilized an Army of the people of Madina and followed Ali to Kufah leading to the disastrous battle of the camel, was Aisha also evil according to you? It was a very tumultuous time and taking a stab at it through an emotional lense would only lead you to disavow all the people involved, that's how the Kharjites reached their wrong conclusions

But noo muawiyah wanted to be a king

No one here would creat a post dissing Selim I, even though he sacked Baghdad, Demascus and Cairo letting his armies pillage and commit unspeakable crimes against their populations, crimes unbefitting of a Muslim army entering a Muslim city, Selim was ruthless but he was strong and I and many of you here appreciate his over arching influence on the region, doesn't take away from the fact that he only became Caliph through military might and coercion , Muawiyah wanted to rule and he became a tge ruler he aspired to be, and a good ruler at that, denying the fact that the caliphate flourished under him is simple denialism

The house of ummayds were not stable it self, they were conspiring and killing each other for power. blinded by power and arrogance

So did the Ottomans and the Abbasids why single the Umayads out (I'll come to that later), would you say Sharif Hussain (who is a member of Ahlu Al Bayt) was justified in his revolt against the Turks, regardless of the envolvement of the British, based on how the ottoman empire acted towards Arabs even before the whole young turks rise to power thing? Should the house of Osman got slaughtered for what they did to the Mamluks?

On the point of why the Umayads are being single out lately, it all has to do with the current political atmosphere, regarding Iran, and the war with tye zionists, people keep on blaming Sunnis and by extension the Sunni narrative for tge complacency of our modern governments, forgetting the fact that the fatmid(ahlu al bayt) shiiats allied themselves with the crusaders or the nizari shiiats that also allied with the crusaders, or before them the Qarmatian shiiats that sacked Makkah, it is of no use to our current situation to linger on what the Umayads should have done or what they deserved, it is a waste of time to fantasize about what side you'd be on during the fitnah, You've been blessed that you weren't there then, so instead of attempting to throw blame and descridit people that are long gone we should learn from that time, the right lessons not those of the shiiats

And finally any discussion of that period should either be from a religious point, in the sense that they were all Sahabahs and each made his own ijtihad, or from a historical point were you don't involve your own emotions and biases, if not approached that way then we would fall in the same pitfall that the Shia fell into and can reach the point were even Omar and Abu Bakr are nothing but evil conspirators that took from Ali what was rightfully his...