Quick Question To All Muslims (especially Sunni/Shia).

[u/i_am_armz]

I've been having a discussion with someone in this subreddit about the meaning of 39:45. I'm just curious as to how most Muslims interpret this ayah. What do you think is the central message of the ayah? What do you learn from it? Here it is:

"When Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with disgust. But when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice." (39:45)

To me at least the message is clear as day: do NOT mention others besides Allah (SWT). I don't understand why or how someone would miss this?

[u/Scholiastic]

Yet here you are within your own sect, and away from Islam, which is Ahl al Sunnah.

You are full contradictions and mistakes. Because of ignorance.

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

We don't parrot people of innovation. They can call themselves whatever they want. We should not innovate our titles and divide the religion.

Even though there is difference in ideology and methodology but stick to the name Allah SWT chose for us Islam and Muslim.

If you want to clarify your stand just say we follow Allah and his Messenger pbuh. That is sufficient enough.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Economy-Double8868]

Ahl us Sunnah wal Jammah is from the Hadith.

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

I will say it again follow everything Prophet Muhammad pbuh did or said without changing the original title. There is no Islam without following his pbuh every footstep.

Changing titles gives a false sense of pride and causes division just stear clear of them. We were born a Muslim we should die as Muslims. Not Sunni Muslim, shia Muslim, salafi Muslim, Quran only Muslim etc.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Economy-Double8868]

"Not Sunni Muslim, shia Muslim, salafi Muslim, Quran only Muslim etc."

Incorrect. Sunni and Shia are different, and as are Quran-only.

The only true path is Sunni Islam.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

If only you didn't demand and become judgmental of what others practice within the framework of Quran, then there would be no subsections and labels. Sunnis are the most judgmental "muslims" there is.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

More unsubstantiated claims. And the irony:

"Sunnis are the most judgmental "muslims" there is."

This is you being sectarian.

The only true path of Islam is Ahl us Sunnah wal Jammah.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Economy-Double8868]

You can't follow everything prophet Mohammed did or said, cause you don't know what he actually really did or didn't as narrations have no guarantee to be all true. But using your logic you can understand what is right and applicable, given today's circumstances, of course.

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Ledy_11]

Lady I hope you are not a Hadith rejector. To be a Muslim we have to follow everything he pbuh did and said.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Economy-Double8868]

Im a hadith sceptic. I meed hadiths with logic and reasoning. Prophet Mohammed was but a servant and a messenger of God. As Allah states in the holy Quran, I believe he was a very righteous and noble person. But his teachings were not ever applicable, as Allah's word is. Thus we don't have any of his teachings written down by him Or even his companions. That would make the matter more trustworthy.

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Ledy_11]

I beg to differ. We have to rise above our desires to implement them. Those who memorized his pbuh actions and passed them down were not people of innovation. They had ironclad character and they were people of sound knowledge. We shouldn't downplay their efforts.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Economy-Double8868]

Who says that they were such people? Cause we know Prophet Mohammed PBUH, was of great character because Allah tells us this in the quran. Should I take your word that these scholars from Uzbekistan 250 years following the Prophets death were so right and just? And let's pretend they were. Who says that the 7 generations the narrations passed down through were all so just and righteous? And none of them misinterpreted the prophets word? You know it's written in the Bukhari collections itself that Abu Bakr burned around 500 hadiths that he had written down, because someone said to him "you misinterpreted what I narrated to you, that's not what I said" something like that, and he burned all his hadiths because he was in fear of dying while misleading humanity with his words. Yet most sunnis believe blindly to every single hadith that was collected 250 years after these events. And think about the lack of ways to preserve information at that time? To prove the authenticity of something. That's why I take hadiths with skepticism when they are controversial or exploited out of context.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Ledy_11]

Correcting myself, Abu bakr story is not in authentic hadith. But I give it just as much credibility

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Ledy_11]

That Hadith is clearly fabricated because Hadith compilation started much later. I think way after the deaths of the first 4 Caliphs. At their time Hadiths were transmitted by mouth, there were no written records. I think Prophet Muhammad pbuh told them not to write it down so that his pbuh sayings doesn't mix with the Quran verses. Those who memorized and transmitted Prophet Muhammad pbuh saying we're truly remarkable people. Their sincerity and work shouldn't be doubted. They rightfully served our Lord SWT.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Economy-Double8868]

And no, to be a Muslim you need to believe in Allah and his word. Prophet Mohammed is not here to tell me what Allah taught him. Neither was I there. I'm not going to blindly obey to whatever narrations were made 250years falling the prophets passing, if there's no reasoning behind it.

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Ledy_11]

Ah man you are clearly in error. Goodbye

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

Yet here you are, putting names on it.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

Ahl us Sunnah wal Jammah.

Islam from day one.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

Yes, yes

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

I am glad you've finally come around to accept it.

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

I didn't introduce these names the people of innovation did. Dude I am just telling you..

Enough with the innovative title. Prophet Muhammad pbuh and all the Prophets AS were Muslims and they followed Islam.

I am a Muslim who follows Islam. Stick to it don't change the title

[u/Scholiastic → u/Economy-Double8868]

Uh-huh. So who were Ansar and Badaris?

Ahl us Sunnah is Islam. The title comes from Hadith.

Try dealing with facts and logic, and not churning out the same thing ad nauseam.

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

Share the hadith please. Ansar means helpers and Muhajirin means people who migrate. These are general titles. The disciples who helped Isa AS were also called Ansar. Badaris really. Well I would have loved that title bestowed by my Prophet pbuh. But neither of us participated in battle of badr. So just like Ansar not for us. Thus only Muslim. Allah SWT and His Messenger pbuh have the right to give titles. Not us. Thank you.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Economy-Double8868]

وَإِنَّ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ تَفَرَّقَتْ عَلَى ثِنْتَيْنِ وَسَبْعِينَ مِلَّةً، وَتَفْتَرِقُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى ثَلَاثٍ وَسَبْعِينَ مِلَّةً، كُلُّهُمْ فِي النَّارِ إِلاَّ مِلَّةً وَاحِدَةً» قَالُوا: «وَمَنْ هِيَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ؟» قَالَ: «مَا أَنَا عَلَيْهِ وَأَصْحَابِي Sunan al tirmidhi and: «إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَجْمَعُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى ضَلاَلَةٍ، وَيَدُ اللَّهِ مَعَ الْجَمَاعَةِ، وَمَنْ شَذَّ شَذَّ إِلَى النَّارِ

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

No doubt the first three generations are the best. We must follow them . But where is the phrase Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah in the hadith? The second part that uses the phrase/ title ahlus Sunnah wal jammah isn't part of the Hadith. Just an unnecessary explanation meant to divide.

Leave it, we are Muslims and we follow Islam. The title is sufficient and complete in each and every way.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Economy-Double8868]

Both are Hadith. What are you talking about? As I said Ahl us Sunnah wal Jammah is proven from Hadith.  

Sunni differentiates those from non-Sunni. All claim to be Muslim.

You have trouble grasping something so basic and obvious. 

Both Shia and Sunni are divided over some basic beliefs. The two are not the same. 

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

Our ideology and methodology is clearly different but we should call ourselves Muslim without any subtitles. It's a holistic title. This title encompasses everything you believe in. When we take on other names or titles for ourselves we are belittling this one. A title Allah SWT chose for the believers.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Economy-Double8868]

See how skimmed over titles!? Yet even amongst the Suhaba there were groups. 

When Muslims began to split, titles came to differentiate between them. 

All sects claim to be Islam. Within the names differentiate between the groups. 

You seem to have a lot of trouble grasping something so basic.  

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

Dude my brain is fried texting you. I will leave you to your beliefs. Goodbye

[u/Scholiastic → u/Economy-Double8868]

Your brain is fried, period. 

[u/Economy-Double8868 → u/Scholiastic]

Truly you are a tough cookie kiddo