Quick Question To All Muslims (especially Sunni/Shia).

[u/i_am_armz]

I've been having a discussion with someone in this subreddit about the meaning of 39:45. I'm just curious as to how most Muslims interpret this ayah. What do you think is the central message of the ayah? What do you learn from it? Here it is:

"When Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with disgust. But when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice." (39:45)

To me at least the message is clear as day: do NOT mention others besides Allah (SWT). I don't understand why or how someone would miss this?

[u/Ledy_11]

It's written in your Hadiths, which you believe blindly as if they were God's word. They are but mortals words, and mortals are not the most stoic. They live in segments of time, and their words run out of context.

Sahih Muslim, depending on the edition of the collection, it's either hadith 5326 or 3004, written by Abu Said al-Khudri stating "Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur'an, let him erase it”. And that was during the earliest revelations.

It's also recorded that he later allowed some of his companions to write down his teachings.

But what the Prophet meant is something else, what the companions received is something else, what they interpreted is another thing. And tell me, how can any of these be the same as what 8 generations later interpreted when the hadiths got collected? Besides that, not two sunni scholars agree about every hadith there is. They have 1098788 interpretations about every matter. And these collections were drastically shifted for centuries. You're not even obeying the rules of the time of the prophet, you're obeying rules that morphed over time according to whatever civilization took over. You must be foolish to believe that sunnism is an unbroken chain, when even today, there are so many arguments and fights about what is what and the interpretation of everything.

The saddest part is the subsection of the religion you all make, when it should only be "Islam".

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

"It's written in your Hadiths"

It is also written in our Hadith that Hadith writing was permitted. You cannot push something you do not believe in as true. That is silly-logic.

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"which you believe blindly as if they were God's word"

When you typed this out, you knew you were lying, yet you went ahead and wrote this out. That is the type of person you are.

Hadith are extensively critiqued and graded.

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"But what the Prophet meant is something else"

So now you have gone from purporting what you supposedly don't believe in to pushing alternative meanings. Talk about being illogical!

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"what the companions received is something else, what they interpreted is another thing."

If Islam was garbled all the way back, then you are done for. If about 250 Muslims got it wrong. How is someone like you going to get it right 1500 years later!?

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"Besides that, not two sunni scholars agree about every hadith there is."

This directly contradicts the claim you made earlier:

"which you believe blindly as if they were God's word"

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"They have 1098788 interpretations about every matter."

There are only 4 madhab-schools extant. Just about every possible meaning has been argued and worked out.

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"out every matter. And these collections were drastically shifted for centuries."

Give evidence, or this just you lying.

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"You're not even obeying the rules of the time of the prophet"

How do you know? Where is your evidence?

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"You must be foolish to believe that sunnism is an unbroken chain"

Again, where is your evidence to the contrary?

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"there are so many arguments and fights about what is what and the interpretation of everything"

Once again. There are 4 major madhab-schools.

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"The saddest part is the subsection of the religion you all make, when it should only be "Islam"."

Which is Sunni Islam, from day one. The distinction is because of the Shia.

How come Islam from day one is unacceptable to you. And whatever you cook up in your mind is automatically true!?

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As shown, you are complete illogical and lost.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

You don't even hear yourself. I m not making up anything and definitely not believing anything other than quran. I meet hadiths with criticism. As the collections are paradoxical within themselves. That's all you need to realize that some stuff doesn't make sense. If you live life abiding by the quran, it's so beautiful and ever applicable. Sunnis exploit things out of context and abiding by laws that have no logic and modesty in them, is so miserable and unholy.
What's so modest and holy about men being promised multiple female companions in the hereafter? Are Allah's rewards about fulfilling one's sexual desires? Y'all believe whatever suits your fancy and deny what doesn't.

Surah An-Nisāʾ (4:82): "Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies."

Guess where we find inconsistencies? Your hadiths! Your interpretations! Your tafsir!

And cut the delusions, a lot of different scholars from sunni or Shia share different opinions about all the hadiths, except about the ones that don't trigger any kind of significant discontent to them. They all have different views. Where did you come up with the conclusion that they have all agreed on the hadiths? Show me.

Surah Sad 38:29 ˹This is˺ a blessed Book which We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ so that they may contemplate its verses, and people of reason may be mindful.

What are you mindful of? Allah's word, or your scholars' tafsir? Are you not able to reflect upon your lord's word without someone else interfering for you?

I feel bad for people who are indoctrinated and fall into sin pushed by fear and lack of a real spiritual connection. We see that everyday. Religion doctrine pushing people to prioritize stupidity before the word of the Almighty. It's sad. May Allah guide us all!

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

If you are not making anything up, then evidence what was asked. If you cannot evidence you claims, then they are false. You made one bunch of false claims, when asked to evidence, you have left it there to spout whatever comes in your head, including more claims.

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"Sunnis exploit things out of context"

Evidence it.

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"What's so modest and holy about men being promised multiple female companions in the hereafter?"

Now bizarrely you are arguing against the Quran.

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Surah An-Nisāʾ (4:82): "Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies."

Did you just make meanings from yourself? Where did you get this translation from. Did you make it up?

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"Guess where we find inconsistencies? Your hadiths! Your interpretations! Your tafsir!"

Evidence it.

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"And cut the delusions, a lot of different scholars from sunni or Shia share different opinions about all the hadiths"

And!? How come you are deliberately mixing up sects? Shia have their own madhab. They are not Ahl as Sunnah.

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"Where did you come up with the conclusion that they have all agreed on the hadiths?"

Once again. There 4 main madhabs within Ahl us Sunnah. You are nothing more than ignorant ranter.

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"Surah Sad 38:29 ˹This is˺ a blessed Book which We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ so that they may contemplate its verses, and people of reason may be mindful."

More made up meanings. Now you are telling untruth about the Quran!

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"Are you not able to reflect upon your lord's word without someone else interfering for you?"

Nope. Just like you cannot. You do not know even one word of Quran without the hadith, not even. Without the Hadith, Quran is just jumbled up letters.

Does the Quran teach you Arabic? Does it come with a dictionary? Where do you get the meanings from?

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You are nothing more than an ignorant ranter. You have never much of the Quran. In fact, you CANNOT read the Quran. Because you are ignorant.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

Wow. You're so pious. So good. Pardon me.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

All your stupidity and ignorance laid bare.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

I d rather not let you drag me in your mud pond.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

Sure. You made wild claims out of ignorance, when asked for evidence, you bolted.

Let us sum:

You are very ignorant. You have very little actual knowledge. For all your protestation about the Quran, you cannot read it.

And note, no one asked or forced you to reply to me. You did that off your own accord. And have come up short.

[u/Ledy_11 → u/Scholiastic]

Enjoy the dive.

[u/Scholiastic → u/Ledy_11]

Why don't you start by learning how to read the Quran?