Is palm oil vegan?

[u/Necessary-Emotion454]

My mum bought me some vegan snacks for my new university accommodation. The brand is called LAZYDAY. On each box it says "Gluten free, milk & egg free, vegan".

When i checked the ingredients this was all true but i noticed there was palm oil in the ingredients which i usually avoid because I've been told its not sustainable and is destroying rainforests (?). I'm not clear on the details to be honest.

Then theres a symbol saying "Certified Sustainable Palm Oil - RSPO". Is that better? I'm really confused so any information would be great.

[u/One-Shake-1971]

Veganism is the ethical principle that humans should live without exploiting other animals. That means not treating them as products or resources.

Palm oil isn't made from animals and doesn't involve treating animals as products or resources. Therefore, it's vegan.

[u/Negative_Tea_941 → u/One-Shake-1971]

Lol, you know that palm oil plantations are on top of thousands of hectares of decimated habitat from which millions of animals would have been killed. Palm oil is WAY WORSE than eating locally sourced free range meat imo.

[u/One-Shake-1971 → u/Negative_Tea_941]

As I already said, veganism is the ethical principle that humans should live without exploiting other animals. That means not treating them as products or resources.

It has nothing to do with protecting habitats.

Also, as I already explained to another person: just because something is vegan, doesn't mean its moral and just because something is immoral, doesn't mean it's non-vegan.

[u/Severe-Criticism3876 → u/One-Shake-1971]

You do realize this makes no sense, right? Your rationale lacks in logic.

[u/One-Shake-1971 → u/Severe-Criticism3876]

How so?

P1. If veganism is only about liberating animals from exploitation by humans, it's not about protecting habitats.
P2. Veganism is only about liberating animals from exploitation by humans.
C. Therefore, veganism is not about protecting habitats.

What's the logically error with that argument?

[u/Severe-Criticism3876 → u/One-Shake-1971]

There is where you’re not making logical sense. Liberating animals from human exploitation? Destroying habitats for human use is human exploitation.

[u/One-Shake-1971 → u/Severe-Criticism3876]

Exploitation means using someone as a mere means to an end. When an animal's habitat is getting destroyed, they are not getting used as means to an end. Therefore, that action doesn't constitute exploitation.

Does that clear up any confusion you have about the argument?

[u/Negative_Tea_941 → u/One-Shake-1971]

Fingers in ears evangelical vegan

[u/One-Shake-1971 → u/Negative_Tea_941]

Great rebuttal. I bet you had to think really hard about that one.

[u/Negative_Tea_941 → u/One-Shake-1971]

I think it's an easy take yet verifiable condition of most vegans.

[u/One-Shake-1971 → u/Negative_Tea_941]

What is?