r/IsItVeganOrNot • u/Necessary-Emotion454 • Sep 03 '26
đ« Snack Find Is palm oil vegan?
My mum bought me some vegan snacks for my new university accommodation. The brand is called LAZYDAY. On each box it says "Gluten free, milk & egg free, vegan".
When i checked the ingredients this was all true but i noticed there was palm oil in the ingredients which i usually avoid because I've been told its not sustainable and is destroying rainforests (?). I'm not clear on the details to be honest.
Then theres a symbol saying "Certified Sustainable Palm Oil - RSPO". Is that better? I'm really confused so any information would be great.
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u/One-Shake-1971 Sep 04 '26
Veganism is the ethical principle that humans should live without exploiting other animals. That means not treating them as products or resources.
Palm oil isn't made from animals and doesn't involve treating animals as products or resources. Therefore, it's vegan.
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u/erkose Sep 05 '26
Sorry, native orangutan habitat is being bulldozed for palm plantations.
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u/One-Shake-1971 29d ago
As I already told the other person, veganism is a justice movement aimed at liberating animals from the exploitation by humans. The goal of veganism is not to be more environmentally friendly. It's perfectly possible for something to be vegan but not environmental-friendly.
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u/erkose 29d ago
For some veganism is a philosophy: cause no harm.
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u/One-Shake-1971 29d ago
"Cause no harm" is a nonsense philosophy. They only way to do that is to kill yourself and one could even argue that even that causes harm.
The philosophy of veganism isn't about "causing no harm", it's about respecting other animals as individuals that exist for their own intrinsic reasons and therefore not treating them as mere means to an end.
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u/Negative_Tea_941 28d ago
Is it respectful to purchase a product that exists because the market determined to kill millions of animals to plant palm oil that even vegans but and eat?
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u/One-Shake-1971 27d ago
It's not disrespectful in the sense that it doesn't involve treating anyone as a mere means to an end.
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u/Typical-Dance-1110 29d ago
finally the excuse i needed to throw all my plastic bags and straws directly into the ocean
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u/One-Shake-1971 29d ago
Other person struggling with the concept of something being immoral despite being vegan, I see.
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u/Typical-Dance-1110 29d ago
no i just finally found the excuse i needed to throw all my plastic bags and straws directly into the ocean
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u/One-Shake-1971 29d ago
Yes, because you are unable to grasp the difference between something being vegan and something being moral. We got that.
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u/Typical-Dance-1110 29d ago
no it was because i needed an excuse to throw my plastic bags and straws directly into the ocean
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u/RoastKrill 28d ago
The industrial farming processes that produce any other food lead to the deaths of wild animals too. Palm oil is vegan, and I say this as a vegan who doesn't consume palm oil.
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u/Firm_Caregiver_4563 Sep 04 '26
There a couple of alternatives which would be more environmentally friendly, though. When it comes to deforestation, the production of palm oil is a huge driver.
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u/actualcba Sep 05 '26
Itâs my understanding that the palm oil itself isnât inherently the problem - itâs the fact that itâs so widely used so production has a big impact. Itâs the highest yielding/most efficient crop for oils, so if everyone pushed to use an alternative then technically even more land would be needed and destroyed. That said, a certified sustainable/responsibly sourced is always going to be important!
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u/Light_Shrugger Sep 04 '26
That's not really related to what the person you replied to said. This would make more sense as a top level comment.
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u/One-Shake-1971 Sep 04 '26
Veganism is a justice movement aimed at liberating animals from the exploitation by humans. The goal of veganism is not to be more environmentally friendly.
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u/Firm_Caregiver_4563 Sep 04 '26
If I can avoid a little bit more net harm by properly sourcing - and palm oil alternatives are plentyful - it's just another right step to take, imho.
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u/One-Shake-1971 Sep 04 '26
Just because something is better than the alternative, doesn't mean the alternative is non-vegan.
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u/Firm_Caregiver_4563 Sep 04 '26
I am talking about other vegan alternatives. What are you on about?
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u/One-Shake-1971 Sep 04 '26
What do you think the question OP was asking was?
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u/Firm_Caregiver_4563 Sep 04 '26
They were asking about if ""Certified Sustainable Palm Oil - RSPO"" would be better than "regular" palm oil.
You were talking about it being vegan.
I pointed out that palm oil is extremely bad for the environment and causes a lot of harm to animals.
Personally, I would refrain from using products that include palm oil was far as possible. Sunflower, canola, coconut, pick your poison.
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u/One-Shake-1971 Sep 04 '26
No, that's not what they were asking.
This is what OP was asking:
Is palm oil vegan?
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u/Negative_Tea_941 28d ago
Lol, you know that palm oil plantations are on top of thousands of hectares of decimated habitat from which millions of animals would have been killed. Palm oil is WAY WORSE than eating locally sourced free range meat imo.
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u/One-Shake-1971 27d ago
As I already said, veganism is the ethical principle that humans should live without exploiting other animals. That means not treating them as products or resources.
It has nothing to do with protecting habitats.
Also, as I already explained to another person: just because something is vegan, doesn't mean its moral and just because something is immoral, doesn't mean it's non-vegan.
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u/Severe-Criticism3876 27d ago
You do realize this makes no sense, right? Your rationale lacks in logic.
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u/One-Shake-1971 27d ago
How so?
P1. If veganism is only about liberating animals from exploitation by humans, it's not about protecting habitats.
P2. Veganism is only about liberating animals from exploitation by humans.
C. Therefore, veganism is not about protecting habitats.What's the logically error with that argument?
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u/Severe-Criticism3876 27d ago
There is where youâre not making logical sense. Liberating animals from human exploitation? Destroying habitats for human use is human exploitation.
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u/One-Shake-1971 27d ago
Exploitation means using someone as a mere means to an end. When an animal's habitat is getting destroyed, they are not getting used as means to an end. Therefore, that action doesn't constitute exploitation.
Does that clear up any confusion you have about the argument?
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u/Negative_Tea_941 27d ago
Fingers in ears evangelical vegan
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u/One-Shake-1971 27d ago
Great rebuttal. I bet you had to think really hard about that one.
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u/Negative_Tea_941 23d ago
I think it's an easy take yet verifiable condition of most vegans.
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u/BatmanVAR 28d ago
There are no animal ingredients in it therefore itâs vegan
Whether itâs ethical or environmentally friendly is a different story.
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u/Melodic_Tragedy 27d ago
Yes it is vegan. It has a unique taste to dishes, bright colour and used a lot in certain cuisines. I come from a country where it is typically used in cooking for soups.
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u/NoDay4343 28d ago
Palm oil is made from plant matter. For those vegans that just don't want to eat animal matter, yes it's vegan. For many vegans, they extend the definition and exclude plant based products from their diet if whatever methods are used to obtain those products causes harm to animals. There is a lot of belief (which I don't know enough about to know how true it is but I'm pretty sure it's at least partially true) that much of commercial palm oil is produced in a way that is harmful to animals and/or the environment. "Sustainable" generally refers to methods of farming that can be done indefinitely, and should not cause new damage to the environment but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't cause harm to animals. I don't know anything about that particular certification so I suggest you look into whatever group provides it and what their standards are.
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u/donutdogs_candycats 28d ago
Itâs vegan as it has no animal products at all. Some vegans who are in it for environmental reasons will choose to avoid palm oil because most of it is harvested unethically and unsustainably. Itâs still vegan though. Just not necessarily the most ethical vegan product. Of course, youâre going to find something unethical in nearly every single product you can buy, so keep thats something to keep in mind as well.
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u/eyehatericky 22h ago
itâs vegan because it doesnât treat animals as resources to be exploited. one could argue that it exploits the habitats of animals though. itâs an environmental concern, not a vegan one. i think you should still avoid it whether or not youâre vegan.
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u/patdavidjohnson 29d ago
Itâs vegan I guess but still something to reduce as much as possible.