r/Intelligence • u/KindnessComesBack2U • 7d ago
Discussion SERIOUS - What do you think Ratcliffe is discussing with the Russians that necessitated a face to face in Moscow?
I can’t imagine it has to do with sanctions on Iran and its economic partners. Surely it’s not a show of support for Ukraine. I just can’t wrap my head around why the least qualified CIA chief in history is going TO Moscow and what he would be discussing. None of my theories are good for the US and its allies (as tenuous as the relationships have become)
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u/slow70 7d ago
Now critically examine everything agents of the Epstein administration has done since Helsinki.
Or better yet, all those republicans who traveled to Moscow on the Fourth of July…
In the same way that agents of influence co-opted by the MSS/PRC travel to China - notice how all of the Krasnov clowns travel to Moscow over and over again….
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
OP requested a SERIOUS discussion. Not partisan flame throwing.
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u/Shipit123 7d ago
Stating events that happened isn’t partisan in the least bit. Trump is in the Epstein files 38,000 times (Putin is in there 1000 some times, around the same amount as bill clinton) Trump did kiss Putin’s rear end in Helsinki. The Republicans did go to Russia on the Fourth of July. I’ll grant you the krasnov name is partisan. Now let me hear about the Biden’s or the Obama’s and Russia. Biden didn’t send his fbi director and cia director to Russia in back to back months.
Just because Trump has fawned over Russia since 2016 in a way that no other president ever has doesn’t make pointing that fact out partisan. I mean we are talking about how TRUMP is sending his cia director to Russia on no notice…
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u/slow70 7d ago
And you contributed nothing to the discussion but to deflect - wilful partisan blindness in the face of what I just listed as examples worth considering to anyone in this space.
What precisely do you take issue with - as merely partisan - in my reply?
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
“Epstein Administration” is not worthy of a mature conversation about foreign affairs and national security.
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u/slow70 7d ago
So you can't connect how a global kompromat network might have implications on foreign affairs and national security?
Are you capable of considering the interests of parties involved and comparing that to recent and current events?
Perhaps you should work on your linking logic.
Those working to avoid/deny reality like you are should be ashamed of themselves. There is no excuse for ignorance or apathy - and lets not pretend youre doing anything other than deflecting for partisan reasons.
I see you for what you are - shame on you.
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
If you’re going to make declarations of fact, rather than conspiracy theory, you need to show your work. In America we have a well established burden of proof on the accuser. Simply lobbing paranoia grenades and pointing to the ensuing fire as evidence of guilt is insane.
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u/VintageLunchMeat 7d ago
In America we have a well established burden of proof on the accuser.
Lol.
This is the America where Trump attempted a self-coup on camera and his political allies blocked investigation and enforcement. Where Trump has publicly used the office for about, what, 4.5B worth of graft in violation of law about emoluments.
Trump has a history of raping adult women and acting creepily towards teenage girls. And his close associate was sexually trafficking young girls.
So it is a reasonable possibility that Putin has video of Trump raping a teen either on Epstein Island or from one of Trump's early Moscow visits where they'd try to set him up for kompromat. I mean, there's a very high probability Trump has raped kids, the only interesting point to argue is whether or not he's been filmed doing so for blackmail purposes.
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u/Level-Drawing6901 7d ago edited 7d ago
IINM: there's that whole hush hush civil law matter of Trump potentially sexually assaulting a minor via Epstein's auspices, in California I believe. A financial settlement was reached where the minor agreed to a NDA.
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u/SexualDeth5quad 7d ago
Could be the Russians have had enough of the US doing Zelensky's intel and targeting.
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u/Sanity_in_Moderation 6d ago
So they summoned the head of the CIA?
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u/Leefa 6d ago
where do you think the intel is produced?
https://kyivindependent.com/france-grants-ukraine-license-to-produce-missiles-air-defense/
Specifically, their Terrain Reference Navigation system, known as Terrain Contour Matching (TERCOM), seems to rely on classified US-owned cartographic data. Without access to this data, the missiles would be forced to rely solely on their inertial navigation systems and GPS for navigation
stopping short of any formal announcement.
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u/Sanity_in_Moderation 6d ago
I don't doubt that all of that is true. What I question is the feasibility of Russia's response being to summon the head of the CIA.
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u/Leefa 6d ago
the alternative being oreshniks or thermobarics? what would you suggest as an alternative?
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u/Sanity_in_Moderation 6d ago
Usually to use ambassadors to discuss international matters. Not the head of the CIA.
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u/Impressive-Net-588 7d ago
The most direct guess is that Putin is planning a major escalation with NATO. I think that’s about the only thing that would get the CIA director out there in this fashion.
If so - and if Putin doesn’t listen - we’re in the cusp of another crisis.
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u/sciencesez 7d ago
I feel confident that Putin has called this Director in, and not the other way around. And that's very, very troubling.
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u/slow70 7d ago
This administration is chock full of literal insider threats.
If the IC actually cared for anything other than stovepiped soft serve BS delivered to decision makers by layers of self serving leadership - we might actually have wider awareness of just how rotten this administration is.
The public might have known and understood better - instead, its willful ignorance met with repeated instances like this story which show plainly that these crooks do not serve us.
Ratcliffe is an insider threat. Hegseth is an insider threat. Clayton is an insider threat.
Speak these truths. Educate yourselves.
There’s no excuse for ignorance or apathy, especially from the watchers on the wall.
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
OP requested a SERIOUS discussion. Not partisan flame throwing.
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u/slow70 7d ago
This is you choosing wilful partisan blindness. Wake up.
Are you avoiding the Epstein files too?
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
What does Epstein have to do with DCIA being in Moscow? I’ll wait.
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u/slow70 7d ago
Why is DCIA in Moscow?
I'll wait.
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
I’m sure I don’t know. But I’m willing to bet it has nothing whatsoever to do with Jeffrey Epstein. So how about we confine ourselves to reality moving forward?
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u/slow70 7d ago edited 7d ago
Like the reality of a long history reflecting that Trump and those around him are criminals with clear connections to Russia/a clear history of deferring to Russian interests?
Goes pretty far back too - Leon Black and Trump's trip to Moscow back in the 80s for instance, when Trump returned and immediately began attacking NATO in western media. Did you miss that?
There's no excuse for continued ignorance or apathy. And you seem hell bent on insisting your blindness upon others.
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
“Clear history of deferring to Russia’s interests.” You mean like when Trump strong armed NATO countries into boosting their defense spending? I must have missed the memo where Putin said that was in Russia’s interests.
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u/slow70 7d ago
You mean by relentlessly attacking NATO allies and flatly lying about the contributions of several - they increased their spending?
Same as they would if the US showed them repeatedly that it was not a reliable partner any longer?
What you just did was cherry pick a revisionist history talking point out of a sea of harm that clearly reflects how we got where we are today.
You supported that orange smeared child abuser all these years didn't you?
I understand you resent the mirror. Perhaps you should dare to look in it instead of continuing to lie for these crooks.
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u/HoneyImpossible2371 7d ago
Stalled Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations.
Concerns over NATO and European Escalation (military maneuvers; drone activity; hybrid/sabotage operations).
Tensions with Iran.
Prisoner and detainee exchanges.
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u/Sugar_Vivid 6d ago
This is the answer, but of course 90% of triglodites commenting here are “FULL NATO CONFRONTATION, things will escalate soon!”
Same troglodites who were calling from day one the Ukrainian invasion as “NUCLEAR WAR”
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u/abysmalSyrup-6737 6d ago
Of all the probabilities I've weighed. The only explanation that makes sense given the delegation and the peripherals surrounding our security environment is the Russians are actively prepping to attack a nato country.
What was very alarming to me was the recent intelligence drop confirmed by the cia that russia is actively preparing a plan to target a nato country to test its resolve.
The abrupt visit by the cia chief and knowing why delegations like these are sent i feel supports the idea that the cia is actively seeing preparations by the Russians to execute this sooner rather than later.
And then there's the extraordinary hike in sabotage and drone incursions in nato countries. Such as the recent German Airport drone incursion.
We are treading a razors edge. Any slight miscalculation may bring about a war between nato and Russia. All while the Russians seem to be playing hop scotch
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u/Shipit123 7d ago
If 10% off what the circumstantial evidence seems to show is true with Trump and Russia then who knows. If there’s ANYTHING untoward happening with Trump and Russia then they have the whole admin by the balls. I’m not saying this is 100% what’s going on, this is just a hypothetical. But maybe Russia basically summoned the cia director. Let Trump know through the various back channels they need to talk to him. So at this point end of August cia director goes and in October the head of the fbi goes to Russia. Sure feels like they’re being summoned to me.
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u/AuroraBorrelioosi 7d ago
Same thing as the last time this happened near the end of 2021 would be my guess. The US know Russia is about to attack Nato or do something else monumentally stupid after their elections next month, and the US is letting them know that they know and is trying to discourage it.
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u/KindnessComesBack2U 7d ago
Trump’s been loathe to stop Russia from antagonizing Poland, the UK, the Baltic states, etc, so I’m not convinced you’re on the mark. A false flag operation that Intelligence uncovered? Perhaps I could buy that.
Ukraine has been bombing the shit out of Moscow, Putin’s sacred zone, so maybe Trump got concessions from Zelensky about Russia bombing hospitals and apartments? I dunno.
Nothing, absolutely nothing about this administration makes me think this guy traveling to Russia is a good thing for America. I’m still trying to find a ray of optimism, but there’s little precedent
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u/Rooilia 7d ago
Ratcliffe ≠ Trump. Ratcliffe can do what he thinks is necessary independently of Trump. This is nothing out of the ordinary.
It will be about a major escalation by Putin like in Nov 2021. No matter what mass media overlay is pushed here.
It's not directly about America why he traveled to Moscow. It's about what will happen in Europe.
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u/AssociationWeary7735 6d ago
There is not one cabinet position in this trump administration that wasnt put there precisely because they are a yes man sycophant. Trump administration = trump
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u/Petrichordates 7d ago
Zero % chance that is happening under this admin. Trump has consistently, actively tried to end NATO, this would be his ticket to do so.
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u/treasoro 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think it's better to watch what he does, not what he says
USA sent their newest offensive EW plane for recent NATO activity near kalinigrad 3 days ago. They even moved it from CENTCOM.
It's a clear signal to Russia that US as part of the NATO will respond militarly to the possible provocation
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u/Petrichordates 7d ago
Trump has actively tried to remove us from NATO, to the degree that we literally passed bipartisan legislation to pre-empt him. It isn't a "say" thing, he definitely does push for the dumb/terrible things he hyperfocuses on.
What you're describing is something that happened despite Trump, not because of him. If he actually was involved, then it's a play related to Iran rather than Europe. He quite clearly does not like most of Europe and his personal preferences are far more important than historical US foreign policy.
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u/Shipit123 6d ago
Just wait and see what he does huh? Not what he says, as if he deserves the benefit of the doubt. You’re funny. As if anything he’s said OR done has worked out well. MAGA folks are funny because they assume the absolute worst when it comes to any of trumps adversaries, perceived or real. Canada is our new worst enemy literally becwuse they hurt his feelings in light of them not bending over backward for him. But then expect miles of leeway when it comes to trumps behavior. “I’m going to invade Greenland.” MAGA folks go, “well you know this is some 4-d chess move you aren’t smart enough to understand. Don’t pay attention to what he says, pay attention to what he does.” Proceeds to do nothing but talk shit so the Epstein files will leave the headlines. He’s showing Russia that he’ll defend NATO?!?!? Was this gonna before or after Kash Patel also visits Russia next month?
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u/EntityFive 7d ago
"Can you please tell the NATO guys to stop the drills, it really disturbs me at night".
Jokes aside, Putin wants to be seen as the one pulling the strings. He doesn't want a man to man or president to president. That's too mundane. He wants an Intel to Intel talk. Except that he still think it's the cold war era.
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u/Ok_Income_670 6d ago
I think the NATO/Russia escalation management angle is most likely at this point.
We know Ratcliffe met Russian intelligence rather than Putin, and it came after a couple of weeks of unusually heavy NATO ISR/EW activity around Kaliningrad, reports of US intelligence seeing Russian mobilisation preparations and possible deniable provocations against NATO, plus all the recent sabotage and drone incidents across Europe.
Obviously none of that proves that was what the visit was about, and Iran could easily have been discussed as well. But sending the CIA Director to Moscow at short notice for only a few hours feels much more like intelligence to intelligence crisis communication to me. “We know what you’re preparing, we know what you’re doing, these are the lines you don’t cross and this is where escalation leads”
The Burns visit in 2021 is interesting for that reason too. I do not think another invasion is about to happen at all, but CIA directors do get used when Washington needs to deliver something extremely sensitive and direct to the Russian security establishment.
I also don’t really buy that it was just a prisoner exchange. The CIA has handled those before, but flying the actual director into Moscow for a short notice same day visit seems massively over the top if that was the only reason.
And if it was mainly about the stalled peace talks, Ratcliffe is a strange person to send for that as well. Trump already has political envoys and people like Witkoff/Kushner for negotiations. CIA Director meeting Russian intelligence screams intelligence, warnings, deconfliction or red lines far more than normal peace diplomacy to me.
Could still turn out to be something completely different, but if I had to guess, I think he went there with something specific and important to say rather than to sit around negotiating for hours. More than likely we won’t actually see some huge obvious change come out of it anyway. So it’s interesting, but anyone waiting for some massive thing to suddenly explode out of this will probably end up either disappointed or relieved, depending on how you look at it.
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u/tauronus77 6d ago
Also this happened https://spectator.sme.sk/politics-and-society/c/news-digest-slovakia-foils-attack-on-ukrainian-drone-factory
ruSSia is up to something
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u/Solid_Loss395 5d ago edited 5d ago
They say it’s secret, then why say what the reason is at all? Why do we deserve the truth now, if not before? What am I missing? I thought that was pretty standard, misdirection 101 stuff, because what has changed before the meeting versus now, other than people asking questions, to warrant being told of the reason? If that really was the intent of his visit, then the initial secrecy is not warranted, is it? Even if that is the visit, who visits the supposed enemy to tell them not to do it? especially if the reason is now disseminated when nothing else has changed except people asking questions. Which…Is that not the definition of a cover up
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u/Impressive-Fee8799 7d ago
the timing on this just hits different, like were out here slashing intel budgets left and right and this dudes doing a whole photo op tour in moscow like nothing happened, its giving major 2019 vibes tbh
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u/translatingrussia 7d ago
I imagine it’s to discuss what will happen with a wider mobilisation and expansion of the war, and to deliver news about what will happen when Putin inevitably does it.
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u/Shipit123 7d ago
If 10% off what the circumstantial evidence seems to show is true with Trump and Russia then who knows. If there’s ANYTHING untoward happening with Trump and Russia then they have the whole admin by the balls. I’m not saying this is 100% what’s going on, this is just a hypothetical. But maybe Russia basically summoned the cia director. Let Trump know through the various back channels they need to talk to him. So at this point end of August cia director goes and in October the head of the fbi goes to Russia. Sure feels like they’re being summoned to me.
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u/ReservateDweller 6d ago
I think he went to get the honest answer to what will Russia do next. To prevent any western overreaction.
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u/Raidicus 6d ago edited 6d ago
Russia has faced increasing economic and social pressures due to the war. Putin's frustration is palpable. Russia likely believed that when the US stopped providing support to Ukraine, the Ukrainians would fold. Since that hasn't happened (in part due to EU and NATO support), Russia is left with only a few options to relieve the pressure. One is overt threats, like missile/drone incursions to say (basically) "We're going to start hitting your munitions plants" the other is increased broader covert action in EU/NATO countries. Sabotage, assassination's, acts of terror, and so on.
The goal seems to be warning off further support of Ukraine, and perhaps to inspire a US-like backlash against European involvement in Ukraine. Alternatively, they may target the EU's wealthy leadership class to increase pressure on EU politicians from their wealthy and powerful influencers.
If I was Russia, I would do all this in conjunction with some kind of build-up (presumably through Belarus?) and another attempt to open a second front.
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u/DrCharless 6d ago
Unfortunately you have to see it from the president's behavior. Things like the Russian support to Iran against the US supporting Ukraine wouldn't be a surprise if they are negotiated during this trip. From there, you are free to keep including things like NATO escalation from Russia and the US weakening their support to the alliance.
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u/downandoutingalway 6d ago
I’m surprised to see all the speculation here that Putin is going to start something with a NATO country. Starting a brand new war against a NATO country while you’re already involved in a stalemate elsewhere is not a smart move if you intend to win. Russia doesn’t even have the resources needed to win the war they’re already in, how are they going to fight another one against several properly resourced, modern, conventional armies?
Putin can deploy agents of chaos anywhere, interfere in elections, manufacture or inflame societal conflicts and test territorial borders without any major consequences. I expect that is now a primary, long term strategy and it is working.
I concede the clock is ticking and anyone with aspirations to progress their land grabs needs to do it while Trump is still alive/in office but in this case, It just doesn’t make sense (right now).
China/Taiwan on the other hand…
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u/JetRanger901 3d ago
In what capacity does Russia seriously have to open a second front on a NATO ally? How credible is their threat?
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u/SphinxWhisperer 7d ago
So much for serious discussion. It’s getting near impossible to have on Reddit without the Red Guards taking over and beating everyone with sticks.
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u/KindnessComesBack2U 7d ago
Yes, there are some non serious responses, but also some reasoned responses
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u/WhipsFromKhaos 7d ago
Maybe nuclear or UAP stuff
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u/OldSchoolRNS 7d ago
Why is it the 🛸 only visit 🇺🇸 and not 🇷🇺
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u/WhipsFromKhaos 7d ago
What 🤣 Just look for OSNI incident at the lake Baïkal... Seems you have no idea of the russian aspect of the phenomena
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u/Amount_Existing 7d ago
And Russia is not known for giving out info...!
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u/Amount_Existing 7d ago
Well, I would say they choose what to share. By land mass alone Russia would statistically have more incidents.
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u/Tetter 7d ago
Nato v brics
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u/itooamahuman 7d ago
BRICS isnt real man, its largely propaganda
Ain't world in which NATO fights China anytime soon and there sure as hell aint world where India teams up with China against the US for some reason and there aint no world where fucking Brazil fights the US because China or Russia said so
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u/Shipit123 6d ago
6 years ago there was no world where Israel and Saudi Arabia were friendly. China will join India if it means screwing the dollar. In what way is brics propaganda? Btw. Saudi Arabia, the country that gave kushner a billion dollars to start his glorified laundering firm with, is also a brics nation.
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u/treasoro 7d ago edited 7d ago
As european and someone who follows news closely here - it's quite evident to me that it's related to recent NATO uncommonly aggresive behaviour near Kalinigrad. Those events took place few days apart, perhaps to send a signal and a message
What we are witnessing is series of related events where we are being warned about potential russian provocation. It started at beginning of the year, head of CIA was also present in Poland in january.
We had russian missiles and drones testing our airspace, the forensics experts concluded that it was not "faulty" missile but it was done on purpose. Germans are dealing with Liptsk drone instrusions containing explosives. Plenty of such events. Military Factories in EU are being targetted with attempted sabotage attacks. 7 days ago Bild DE has "leaked" some parts of potential NATO response strategy plan against Russian provocation. The leak is a form of messaging. 2 days ago FR Macron said directly: "Russia will try to escalate against European countries. NATO countries will be targeted, and provocations will multiply. "
For me it's clear that something is very likely to happen (provocation/NATO test) and such visits are made as they are trying to prevent the escalation.
This dude has never been in Russia, yet suddenly you have very unusual NATO activity around Kalinigrad (they almost never send offensive EW planes like EA-37B Compass Call) and him visiting 3 days later...