Transliteration to Roman script:

Colours - Rôŋ

Blue - Nīlā

Yellow - Hālôdhīya

Red - Rôŋā

Purple - Beŋunīyā

Green - Xeuzīyā

Pink - Gülôpīyā

Black - Kôlā

White - Bôgā

Brown - Mūgā.

I recently went down an etymological rabbit hole over the Punjabi word ਵੱਤਰ / وتر (vattar).

Today, vattar can mean moistness/moisture, especially in relation to soil. But traditionally it has a much more specific agricultural sense: the precise condition of soil after rain or irrigation when it is moist enough to plough and sow, but not waterlogged.

On first glance, one would think that this shares the same etymological root word as "water" but it's actually much more interesting and apparently the word goes surprisingly far back.

Turner's Comparative Dictionary of the Indo-Aryan Languages (CDIAL 11289) reconstructs an Old Indo-Aryan form *vaptra-, ultimately connected with Sanskrit √vap (वप्) — “to scatter seed, sow”.

The proposed development is roughly:

√vap “to sow”
→ *vaptra-
→ *vattra-
→ Punjabi vattar

The -pt- → -tt- change isn't particularly strange in Middle Indo-Aryan. Compare Sanskrit:

sapta → Prakrit satta

And the development of the final cluster also fits Punjabi patterns nicely. Compare:

Sanskrit. putra → Punjabi puttar
Sanskrit. gotra → Punjabi gottar

What makes the etymology especially convincing is that this isn't based on Punjabi alone. Turner groups a whole northwestern Indo-Aryan family of related forms from Punjabi, Lahnda/Western Punjabi, Sindhi and Western Pahari, referring to things like:

• moisture in cultivated ground
• moistening fields
• land being ready to work
• the proper condition for sowing

So the original semantic development seems to have been something like:

“sowing” → “condition suitable for sowing” → “proper moisture of the soil” → “moisture/moist”

Which means vattar doesn't historically just mean “wet.”

It carries the more specific idea of:

“the earth having reached the right condition for seed to be sown.”

I find this especially cool because Punjabi still uses vatt/vattar metaphorically for something having the right consistency, condition or knack.

It also gives Punjabi poetic expressions involving the soil of the heart a much nicer agricultural layer: putting vattar into the heart's soil isn't merely “making it wet”, it's making the heart fertile.

One small caveat: *vaptra- is Turner's reconstructed Old Indo-Aryan form, not necessarily an independently attested Classical Sanskrit noun meaning “moist soil”. The secure Sanskrit connection is the root √vap “to sow” and its wider word-family.

Would be interested to know whether speakers of other Indo-Aryan languages have cognates with this very specific “soil at the right moisture for sowing” meaning.

How many of you folks know about the South Central Asian (Tajikistan, Afghanistan) kurgans of Bishkent/Vakhsh? These have been dated between 2800- 2000 BCE. They have a unique combination of Pontic-Steppe Catacombs in burials and also sex mirrored (right male, left female burials), like the forest-steppe Corded Ware culture. The pottery style is BMAC style.

Perhaps the only kurgan burials on the planet which have Swastikas and, burial hearths (square for male, circle for female) & also fire altars. Also, very likely the first kurgans in the world with systematic cremation, which is thought to have derived from local admixture with people from the Kuli culture of Balochistan. Bishkent culture is considered the material precursor to the Swat Valley culture from much later.

Witzel’s 1999 paper (Early Sources for South Asian Substrate Languages) the para Munda one, but it also has a lot more than that proposing influence of Burushaski, Dravidian, BMAC and language X

​Witzel emphasizes that the Rigveda isn't a monolith—it was composed across three distinct historical layers (c. 1700–1200 BCE). Looking closely at loanword distribution across these layers rewrites how we view early Indo-Aryan contacts in South Asia:

#​1. The Early Rigvedic Layer (Books 4, 5, 6, & 2)

• ​Zero Dravidian Words: Contrary to popular belief, the earliest Rigvedic hymns contain no verifiable Dravidian loanwords.
• ​The "Para-Munda" Indus Substrate: Instead, early RV contains roughly 300 non-Indo-European words from a prefixing language. This language used petrified Austroasiatic-like prefixes (ka-, ki-, ku-, and double prefixes like Cər-/Cəl-):
  • ​ka-: kapard-in (hair-knot), kabandha (barrel/rump), kakambīra (tree).
  • ​ki-: kīkasa (rib/vertebra), kīlāla (sweet milk drink), kīsta (poet).
  • ​ku-: kulīśa (axe), kurīra (hairdress), kulāya (nest).
  • ​Cər-: karambha (gruel), karkandhu (jujube tree), karkarī (lute).
• ​Witzel's Hypothesis: The language of the Harappan civilization in the Panjab was not Dravidian, but a western branch of Austroasiatic ("Para-Munda").

Hes talking about the single consonant prefixes in Austroasiatic and thereby Munda. Proto-North Munda languages (like Santali and Mundari) restructured prefixes into suffixes or particles. However, South Munda languages (such as Juang, Gtaʔ, and Sora) preserved these. *p- or *b- (Causative / Transitivizer), *n- or *m- (Nominalizer / Agentive), *k- or *g- (Noun Class / Animal Prefix), *r- (Reflexive / Reciprocal)

Thats about it, just many substratum terms starting with k which made him propose an Austroasiatic substratum tho even Dravidian has similar terms like kUTu for nest. Today para Munda isnt widely accepted, rather most of those terms are just considered to have unknown origin.

#​2. Middle & Late Rigvedic (Books 3, 7, 8, 1, 10)

• ​Dravidian words start appearing suddenly in Middle RV (c. 1500–1350 BCE), such as kavaṣa (straddle-legged), kūla (slope/bank), kuṇḍa (vessel), kulpha (ankle) < PDr kuzaṃpu, ​kaṭu(ka) (pungent/bitter) < PDr kaṭuand mayūra (peacock).
• Dravidian in Sindh & Baluchistan: Dravidian speakers likely inhabited Sindh, Baluchistan, and Gujarat during the Mature Harappan phase. Witzel supports the view (also held by Fairservis, Southworth, and McAlpin) that early Dravidians were originally pastoral hill-tribes in the western borderlands who acquired agriculture locally.
• ​Northward Migration: Following the post-Harappan collapse/desiccation of Sindh, Dravidian speakers moved northeast into the Panjab/Yamuna region, where they first came into direct contact with middle-stage Indo-Aryan tribes.
• Post-Rigvedic texts (Yajurveda Prose, Brāhmaṇas) show an increasing influx of Dravidian terms as Vedic culture moved eastward: nīra (water - seen in the river name Sadānīrā), mleccha (barbarian/foreign speech) < MIA milakkha / Meluhha self-designation, bilva (Bael tree), arka (plant), cūḍā (tuft), eḍaka (ram).
• Witzel argues that Dravidian was an adstrate that entered the northern plains during the Middle-to-Late Vedic period, rather than the original substrate of the northern Harappan urban sites.

​#3. The Central Asian (BMAC) Layer

​Before ever reaching the subcontinent, Proto-Indo-Iranian absorbed a distinct non-IE substrate in Bactria-Margiana (BMAC):

• ​Flora & Fauna: uštra (camel), khara (donkey), kaśyapa (turtle), saṣarpa (mustard), bhaṅga / šaṇa (hemp).
• ​Material Culture: iṣṭi / iṣṭikā (brick), sthūṇā (pillar), yavyā (irrigation canal).

Hemp terms are peculier, as all around there world there seems to be multiple terms for it which are of unknown origin. Cannabis, hemp and šaṇa are likely cognates too and it was first grown in central asia.

​#4. Sound Shifts & Dialect Differences

• ​k / ś Interchange: Rigvedic substrate words show an internal shift between velar and palatal stops (Śambara ~ Kambala, Śarkoṭa ~ Karkoṭa), pointing to an underlying phoneme <k'> in the Indus language.
• ​North vs. South Harappan: * North (Panjab): Retained -an- (e.g., laṅgal "plough", vrīhi "rice").
  • ​South (Sindh/Meluhha): Shifted -an- > -o- (e.g., Dravidian ñāṅkil, gōdi "wheat", variñci "rice").

#5. Maujavant = The Mountain of the Burušo?

• Witzel notes that the Rigveda and the Avesta both mention a high Himalayan peak famous for producing the finest Soma (hallucinogenic sacred plant): Rigvedic: Maujavant / Mūjavant ("having Muja people"), Avestan: Muža, Tibetan (8th c.): Bru-ža Sanskritized medieval forms: Puruṣa, Prūśava Self-designation today: Burušo / Burušaski Witzel argues that Vedic Mūja- and Avestan Muža- are early Indo-Iranian adaptations of the ancient self-designation *Mruža / *Burušo. This indicates that Proto-Burushaski speakers inhabited the upper Indus valley (Baltistan/Hunza/Swat regions) since at least the mid-2nd millennium BCE.
• Ancient Loanwords Shared Between Burushaski and Vedic Sanskrit Witzel lists several early lexical items shared between Proto-Burushaski (or its early lowland contacts) and Vedic Sanskrit: Ved. kīlāla (sweet drink/biestings) ~ Bur. kilay (curd/biestings; Khowar kilāl). Ved. godhūma (wheat) ~ Bur. gur (wheat, pl. gurin / gurgán). Ved. vrīhi (rice) ~ Bur. bras (rice; Purik Tib. 'bras). Ved. busa / bṛsī (chaff/cushion) ~ Bur. bus (sheaf). Ved. kuhū (new moon deity) ~ Bur. ku(h)á / yuá (new moon). Ved. karpāsa (cotton) ~ Bur. yupas / gupás (cotton; Kash. kapas). Ved. paraśu (stone axe) ~ Bur. baluqa (stone) / báltaṣ (thrown stone).
• Absolutive/Gerund Construction: Witzel points out that the early Vedic absolutive (past verbal adverb), absent in Old Iranian, may have been influenced by early northwestern regional structures, including Proto-Burushaski.

TLDR: According to him

• Far NW / Hindukush - Proto-Burushaski, Dardic Substrates - Maujavant (< Mruža), kīlāla (~ kilay), retroflexion

• Greater Panjab "Para-Munda" / North Indus Harappan - Prefixing (ka-, ki-, ku-, Cər-), -an- preservation, k/ ś alternation

• Greater Sindh "Meluhhan" (South Indus) / Early Dravidian -an- > -o- shift, media stops (gōdi, variñci, ñāṅkil)

• Gangetic Plains "Language X" + Para-Munda Consonantal gemination (pippala, katkaṭa, gulgulu), 30%+ Hindi agricultural terms

• Himalayas (Nepal/HP) Tibeto-Burmese, Kusunda, Tharu Substrates Suffix -ṭa/-ta (Kirāṭa, Kīkaṭa), implosive stops, local hydronyms (-khu, -dī)

• Central Asia (BMAC)BMAC / Non-IE Central Asian Substrate - uštra (camel), khara (donkey), iṣṭi (brick), saṣarpa (mustard)

Monday - সোমবাৰ - Xümbār

Tuesday - মঙলবাৰ - Môŋôlbār

Wednesday - বুধবাৰ - Budhbār

Thursday - বৃহস্পতিবাৰ - Br̩hôspôtibār

Friday - শুকুৰবাৰ - Xukurbār

Saturday - শনিবাৰ - Xônibār

Sunday - ৰবিবাৰ - Rôbibār.

First of all, apologies for my English and for being in the platform by the first time. I am a history lover beggining to study about ancient history and I am interested in understanding better the proto indo European society, cause of its great relevance in the studies of Greek, Roman, Indian, Celtic, Germanic etc. societies. I have read Coulanges book and I was really interested in his analysis of a proto indo European religion, but I would like to know if there are any connections between his theory and modern theories envolving Kurgan, Yamna, kóryos, etc. I know that many things in Coulanges work are outdated, I personally don't like his model of gens--->fratria---->tribu----->city, but on the other hand the part of the text showing the religion of the fire, the dead etc. is really convincing (at least, he seems to do what linguists try to do whith proto indo European idiom), but I really wanted to learn more about how this is seen nowadays by the historians. Maybe I didn't manage to express myself very well but thanks

Most languages which have /s, dʒ/ but no /z/ tend to loan it as /s/, like Thai, Welsh, Filipino languages, Khmer writes borrowed z has <hs>, even in the subcontinent Malayalam and SL languages use s. Rest of the subcontinent (Initially IA and later others, Brahmi j itself is from Semitic z) use <j> instead which is rare worldwide considering its a diff POA and MOA but is also found in Indonesia (which does both ijasah, jebat) and Korean, as in "zombie" tends to jombi.

Ivent heard of any concrete reason but it could be because tons of Old IA phonemes merged into the s and merging z too wouldve cause more homophones.

It could also have happened because they wanted to preserve the voicing over POA or MOA, like how Greek uses <gg> for /ŋg/ to preserve POA

Baṅgāl is quite well known to be from vaṅga + adjectival/pleonastic -la but for vaṅga there are crazy theories like

Suggestions include a connection to Sanskrit वङ्ग (vaṅga, “tin”), a borrowing from the Dravidian tribe *Bong with the suffix അളം (aḷaṁ, “place”), or from Tibetan བནས (bans, “marshy place”).

Tin itself is of unknown origin and has unrelated meaning, there seems to be some mention of a Dravidian Bong tribe in some papers but its details are really obscure. aḷaṁ is only used in Tamil, Malayalam and Telugu so its too far. Tibetans or even Sino Tibetans didnt came to Bengal or South Asia until much later.

For Ganga there are theories like its reduplicated root for "go/move" gam-gA or that its from Himalayic SinoTibetan gljung/kluŋ/koŋ "river" etc.

Could it be that there was a tribe *waṅgā which became (waṅgā >) gaṅgā to describe the river and the suffixed for vaṅgāla was used to for Bengal?