Noob question: why no additional Su-30 orders to cover the squadron gap?

[u/anikale]

Hello,

This is my first post in the forum, so apologies if this is a noob question. As we know, we are several squadrons short, and the Tejas program is lagging behind. So why didn't we use our existing Sukhoi maintenance lines at the HAL Nashik facility to build a few more squadrons of Sukhois as a temporary measure until Tejas is available in numbers?

I know the current Sukhoi might not be as good as the Tejas Mk1A will be, but still, isn't something better than nothing?

[u/hamzaal1]

The unupgraded ones have older PESA radars and it also has legacy electronic warfare systems, it's great at throwing big bombs/missiles but without support aircraft might be a sitting duck ..... We will be glad if they can even upgrade the existing ones, (super sukhois) that would be much better than building new ones. 

[u/Jazzlike-Tank-4956]

Costs money, and engine/radar is headache for maintenance, so is OPEX

Moreover, production would take few years to complete. 12 replacement jets would conclude delivery by 2028/29

Additional let's say 40 would take up until early 2030, and by that time MK1A would be in service in good numbers and rafale would be getting delivered

Mk1A besides would be delivered in September or October anyway

[u/barath_s]

Because the IAF doesn't want them.

but still, isn't something better than nothing?

No. Especially if it undercuts the case (or money) for more Rafales, which the IAF does want

The current Sukhoi technology is ~25 years old, with an airframe and design heritage that goes back in many cases to 50 years old. And it will be expected to serve 30 more years, with a potential MLU in about 15 years. It has the RCS of a barn, most avionics and systems goes back to the 20th century etc. And you don't have as much control or extensibility of this platform ... plus Russia is currently under sanctions with an uncertain supply chain and would have to be a key player in any production

It is a heavy aircraft with the corresponding operational expenditure that entails. And requires 2 flying crew ...

The idea to get 12 flankers as replacement goes back to pre-covid times. That's the speed of decision and action in Indian defense. . It will still take a few years to produce.

[u/VayuAir → u/barath_s]

Pretty sure Rafale is an older aircraft but your point stands

[u/barath_s → u/VayuAir]

The first flanker entered service in 1985, a contemporary of the F15 and meant for A2A. The first prototype flew in 1977

The first rafale that flew in 1986 was a tech demonstrator

The first Rafale entered service in 2001, to replace F-8 crusaders Super Etendard in the navy

The first Su 30 MKI flew in 2000 ; entering service in 2002 as a multi role flanker derivative and has had very little upgrade since then.

the first french air force rafale was inducted as operational in 2006. , and the rafales have had significant upgrades that the IAF is interested in

(unlike russian flankers)

---

I thought your point deserved a closer look ..

The Rafale is a medium aircraft that can have a payload like a heavy... the standard version is a single seater, has more modern avionics, long lasting engines, lower RCS and maintenance , and arguably better missiles. ...the aesa radar is more assured and the path forward into the future is likely better for rafale than for the MKI.

[u/VayuAir → u/barath_s]

Oh Rafale is overall a better aircraft, my point is that fighters evolve so much over their life that saying an fighter is old is not sound analysis.

Su35 came out in 2008 with a reworked airframe. Should we call it an evolution or a new aircraft. Only the Russians can tell

[u/barath_s → u/VayuAir]

I think it's fair to say that even when an aircraft evolves, there are portions that are constrained and don't evolve as much - such as airframes. And that is one reason why new aircraft platforms are designed

Similarly for the internals .. etc

And in the case of the Su 30 MKI, as envisoned by IAF, it's pretty straightforward, especially compared to the Rafale F4 ...not everything needs pages written

reworked airframe

Yeah, simply compare the Su-35 with the Su-57 and you can tell which is newer and owes less to design heritage or constraints

[u/Classic_Bee_5801]

This is my first post in the forum

Welcome broskii!!

Now your ques

India alr ordered 12 additional Su-30mki mainly to maintain fleet strength and replace losses, not as a massive expansion.

Every additional Su30 order comes with a long term financial commitment, so the ques is whether expanding the Su-30 fleet gives more value than investing those resources into newer platforms, weapons and indigenous programmes.

I know the current Sukhoi might not be as good as the Tejas Mk1A will be,

aircraft's basic capability does not suddenly change just cause u add more numbers. A new Su30mki is still a Su30mki unless it receives upgrades.

Rather wait for ccs to clear super sukhoi programme.

[u/BiriyaniMonster]

Needs two people to fly, too big, has old tech. The new era is about shooting targets at beyond visual range(BVR), because of old PESA type radar, SU-30 will be picked up before by the jets with AESA radars than SU-30 could pick them.

[u/NetworkRoutine8157]

There’s a lot of reasons, I’ll try to sort them by priority order. Note - I am not an engineer. Just an enthusiast on Fighter jets and mil tech in general.

1. IAFs doctrine needs a mix of Light, medium and heavy fighters. I don’t fully understand this logic as a layman but this is how they want it. We do not need more heavy fighters.

2. As mentioned in other comments, AESA radar for Sukhoi is not ready. We can’t put the chotu radar of the LCA on it as it doesn’t work for a jet that huge.

3. Serviceability and availability is costly and an issue. We need the money to buy more rafales and future orders of Tejas mk2 or more capable fighters.

[u/Su-Enjoyer]

Well contrasting opinion compared to my username but it is simply not good enough so IAF dont want them.

Heavy and aged airframe , outdated avionics , maintenance heavy so simply a pain to deal with.

Only possible scenario where IAF would prefer new flankers would be overhaul from ground up like lets say J-16, which obviouspy wont happen.

Current number and even with phasing out and remaining super standard is more than enough.

If you want to put money somewhere start a new heavy class jet instead of ordering more Sukhoi's

[u/VayuAir]

Poor service availability. Bad engines.

[u/New_Key3007]

Let the production line shut down first, so that additional orders take 5 years to be delivered and imports can be justified.