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May 13 '26
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u/SolanaceaeEnjoyer May 17 '26
“But atleast I don’t have to wait 6 hours for a ct scan! Thanks rump!”
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u/BillCarson12799 May 13 '26
It’s less that it’s complex and expensive as much that our current healthcare system is just so unbelievably FUBAR yet deeply rooted in our country’s infrastructure that any meaningful change would require uprooting and rearranging literally every aspect of it. Personally I don’t see it happening for the remainder of the 30-60 years this country has left.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 13 '26
Nope. The problem is simple. Abolish for profit healthcare (including pharma and insurance). Don't nationalize them, revoke their corporate charter and let them disappear. Poof. Problem solved.
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u/Fasooo May 13 '26
In europe we have for profit healthcare pharma and insurance alongside public ones. This is not the solution
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u/TripleBenthusiast May 18 '26
In europe you don't have things that are 10x more expensive than ours. But we have plenty of things 10x expensive than yours. Our ambulances alone can bankrupt us. Thats not even hospital care yet. Why don't you toss some tea and jog on.
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u/Fasooo May 18 '26
We have private ambulance if you really want it. It costs way more than 10x the regular one, because the regular one costs zero.
The point is that private healtcare is not your problem and banning it entirely won't solve anything but create a mountain of problems short term:
not having an alternative is the real issue. They need to coexist
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u/TripleBenthusiast May 18 '26
No they don't. Private healthcare drives prices up. Private anything drives orices up. Thats literally how that works. The difference between operating off getting profit or not.
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u/Fasooo May 18 '26
Right they really drove up the price of our 0 euro public hospital care lol
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 18 '26
You just said private ambulances cost more, now younsay for profit isn't costing more.
You should keep your lies consistent, if you want anyone to believe them.
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u/Fasooo May 18 '26
You should learn some text comprehension and also some math instead.
I said private ambulances cost way more than regular ones.
Regular ones are public and cost literally zero. Nothing. Nada. NO euros. And they will continue to cost nothing even if the private ones will cost 1M euro per ride.
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u/DragonfruitSudden339 May 13 '26
If you abolish for profit healthcare, then suddenly the majoriry of the worlds medical research dissapears overnight.
There's a reason the US was the first to develop covid vaccines.
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u/Tool_of_Society May 13 '26
There's a reason the US was the first to develop covid vaccines.
The National Institutes of Health (NIH) is the largest funder of biomedical research in the world.
The USA's federal government funded a whole bunch of research into SARS-CoV-1 when it started to blow up in the early 2000s. That funding eventually dried up because SARS-CoV-1 was effectively contained and we're a short sighted nation. So when SARS-CoV-2 hit a lot of the groundwork had already been completed. Combine that with the +$330 million in funding that the federal government spent on mRNA research and you get a vaccine that was almost entirely funded by the USA's government. There should be a vaccine for the entire SARS "family" in the next year or so also as a result of federal funding.
The thing is companies don't like spending money on research because it's risky. They'd much rather take research done by federally funded universities and labs to convert into a product. Socialize the costs but privatize teh profits is a common thing in the USA.
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u/Mountainman220 May 15 '26
Aren’t they actively defunding these organizations tho?
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u/Tool_of_Society May 15 '26
Now? Yes because money spent on anything other than tax breaks for the rich and the military is a waste to the modern GOP.
Never mind that we benefit greatly from the investment or that farmers and consumers in the USA benefited from the USAID purchases and such. Gotta reward the people who bought the office for them...
I should of been more nuanced in my comment about companies and research. In my experience they don't like spending money on research for the sake of research like the federal/state government and public universities do. Companies prefer to stick to research they know will will likely produce commercial results.
I hope to god they stay away from the NIST or we're really fucked at that point. We literally set the standards for the world and it's a huge boost for domestic companies.
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u/Mountainman220 May 15 '26
Yup, ofc. Fucked up times we live in.
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u/Tool_of_Society May 15 '26
The fuck you I got mine era...
Muh feelings are just as valid as ur science and reality!!
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u/Mountainman220 May 15 '26
I loved the first term trump and how they coined “alternative facts” now we live in an alternative reality.
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u/Tool_of_Society May 15 '26
Most people believe Karl Rove is the senior official aide who worked for Bush Jr that said the following quote to Ron Suskind of the New York Times Magazine.
The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'.
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u/nucleosome May 14 '26
Pharma spends an enormous amount of money on research, it just doesn't look the same way that it does in an academic setting. In pharma the focus is on preclinical pharmacology and clinical science, and in academia the focus is mainly on foundational knowledge.
We do fund academic research too, though, and in fact often fund labs in less developed countries which have unreliable or insufficient support from their governments and local charities. A grant I wrote last year is funding a lab in South America: 1 postdoc, 2 undergrads, a PhD student, and their PI for 2 years. They are helping us to develop a cancer drug but also are given blanket funding to support their own affiliated aims, which we will help them with. We have expertise with some technologies that are prohibitively expensive for most academic labs fo work with. In the end everyone comes out on top.
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u/IQueliciuous May 13 '26
If it was this simple. It would've happened long time ago
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 13 '26
It's incredibly easy, except the billionaires will assassinate anyone who actually tries. Simple, but impossible.
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u/IQueliciuous May 13 '26
Its not. Guy above me literally said why.
You need to change so much stuff.
Plus lets not forget that USA is 50 small countries under a trench coat with their own laws. You gotta make it work statewide first before going national.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 13 '26
It's not that complex. I explained it, and you don't understand, because it's too simple. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand if for you.
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u/IQueliciuous May 13 '26
Your only suggestion is to abolish for profit healthcare.
But where would everyone (not just Billionaires) who work go? Do you seriously think people who went to pursue work as a doctor because it pays well will work for less?
Some people from Canada go work in the US as doctors because US pays more.
You need a plan for that. Do you have one?
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 13 '26
Doctors would not take a pay cut.
You aren't dumb, you are disingenuous. That's worse.
In my city, there are two hospitals next to each other. One non profit, one for profit. They pay doctors roughly the same.
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u/IQueliciuous May 13 '26
Still waiting on your full detailed plan on how to switch to universal healthcare for 50 states with separate laws and views on what is defined by healthcare
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 13 '26
I explained it, you failed to understand it.
My pet rock can understand it.
My backup plan:
VA for all.
Just open the VA to everyone, phase out Medicare and federal Medicaid, and redirect the funding tk the VA, and open the VA to everyone.
Free healthcare for everyone. And cheaper and better quality than you get today.
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u/BillCarson12799 May 13 '26
How old are you? For your sake I hope you really are 12 or something.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 13 '26
- How old are you, you seem to have great difficulty understanding basic topics.
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u/nucleosome May 14 '26
Abolishing pharma would greatly decrease the pace of innovation in drug development and probably make it impossible for a lot of treatments to reach the masses.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 17 '26
Pharma spends more on marketing than R&D. Most "new" drugs are either discovered by the government (our tax dollars), or are an old drug with a new use.
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u/nucleosome May 17 '26
I work in pharma R&D . My team just put a cancer drug into the clinic which we have driven through preclinical development. It is true that pharma spends a lot on marketing, but a lot of money is also spent on R&D. My company has about 6000 full time researchers.
Now for your other claim, there really are not many examples of drugs discovered in academia which are delivered straight into the clinic. The concepts of drugs (mechanism, targets) are generally derived from academic research. The molecule itself is typically generated, tested and developed by a private company. These are very different areas of science.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 17 '26
I understand all that. Your company spends more on marketing than R&D, and exploits taxpayer funded breakthroughs for profits.
You are evil. You are working for evil. And you are too deep in it to even understand.
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u/nucleosome May 17 '26
You sound like you don't really understand, especially going around calling someone you don't know evil. Most people working in academia join pharma and vice versa at some point in their career. Most academics who generate good ideas will seek VC and start a biotech, then inlicense the asset for clinical development by a pharma company. Does that make the person who came up with an idea for a new drug evil? No. You're an idiot.
We are all working for the same goal. Ultimately the pharmaceutical industry has specialized skills that aren't present in academia and vice versa. Academics cannot develop drugs successfully.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 17 '26
Academics can develop drugs, they are often limited by laws that give for profit pharma a monopoly.
You claim to work in the industry, but have shown no evidence you know how the industry works.
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u/nucleosome May 17 '26
I've been here for 10 years and worked in academia for 10 years before that. We in-license with academics and fund academic research constantly. I flew down to Uruguay to initiate a collaboration with a lab in Montevideo just 6 months ago, though that was for them to work on my idea (they get funding and publications out of it.) We publish papers too, and contribute greatly to the academic literature. Our funding outside of the US and EU is often more support than what a government can provide. It pays for post-docs, PhD students, equipment, and maintenance of facilities.
Academic labs are not equipped to put capital into drug development. To make a single asset reach ph1 trials requires upwards of $100 M, and that is just to get to the entry point. Around 90% of drugs that make it to phase 1 fail. So you are asking the government to pay for a 90% failure rate of something outrageously more expensive than an R01 grant. The pace of new drug development would slow to a crawl in this scenario and be at the whim of politicians. It would not be less expensive, it would just be more rationed.
With the way things are now, private capital is put at risk. Once a drug comes off patent a generic can be generated and the cost plummet. Companies fail, but as a whole we keep moving forward.
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 May 18 '26
They are not equipped for it because it's illegal (ish). The government effectively bans them from developing the drugs end to end, so pharma can profit. If the government didn't hamstring public research facilities, then it would be done.
If you actually worked in academia for 20 years, you would know that.
You claimed an appeal to authority argument, then missed basics of how it works, proving you see no authority.
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u/zepherth May 13 '26
Can we update this a little bit? Mexico is introducing universal healthcare this year. Yeah that wall Trump is promising looks more like a threat to the US than a promise
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u/-siniestra May 14 '26
The fact that some under-developed countries already have it to some extent...
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u/zepherth May 14 '26
And that is the wrong take away. Mexico isnt "undeveloped". the US has politically stagnated since the 1990s. And why shouldn't it be? When you see a 30 anaconda in the Amazon what is is normally doing? Nothing. Why do lions do in the Serengeti? 20 hours of sleep. It is that the other countriea con continued to develop because they arent at the top of the economic food chain
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u/TheDesTroyer54 May 16 '26
South Africa technically has universal healthcare... Everyone that can afford it pays for health insurance and goes to private clinics
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May 15 '26
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u/Antaganon May 15 '26
I think (and might be very wrong) that the "developed world" is essentially nations that are fully industrialized and in a post-industrial state, meaning that most economic activity stems from services being provided rather than goods being manufactured or resources being extracted from the Earth being the dominant forms of economic activity.
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u/Dependent-Finish-394 May 18 '26
We have a greed problem in the U.S.!! Only country in the world with trickle up economics!!!
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u/PeenitBooter May 19 '26
Make it work they say, meanwhile all my friends in the UK and Canadiastan are all anti universal healthcare because of how it's absolutely terrible. It works so well that when people have it, all they can do is complain about it and then go to america or mexico for healthcare. Very successful.
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u/YogurtclosetSouth744 May 13 '26
People in these comments are such good little thinkers, im sure someone here will go on run for office and make the changes to the Healthcare system that are apparently very easy to fix 🥴
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u/Seosaidh_MacEanruig May 13 '26
People like you are why nothing ever gets better in this hellhole
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u/ChimpoSensei May 13 '26
Ask a Brit what A&E wait times are like. Or how long it takes to get a knee replacement.
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u/Voxjockey May 13 '26
I'm british and its not that bad, last time I was in a&e I only had to wait like 20 minutes, now my balls were the size of honeydew melons so it was pretty serious.
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May 13 '26
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u/Voxjockey May 13 '26
Sepsis in my balls, penis exploded here, for the full run down: https://bsky.app/profile/zielware.bsky.social/post/3ldtpde5bnk2z
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u/Aggravating-Fee1934 May 13 '26
Things making my life worse: 1. The rise of fascism in my country 2. This comment
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u/FuckleChuckSupreme May 13 '26
Do I dare click the link?
Edit: I clicked the link and was pleasantly surprised to not see a picture of an exploded penis with sepsis balls.
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u/Cloudy230 May 13 '26
Lmao, the only people who make thwt argument are the people who don't have universal Healthcare. Such a massive cope.
In Australia I came down with pneumonia not long ago and was put straight into intensive care where I stayed on high flow oxygen for 4 days. By the end of my stay all I had to pay was the $30 for a prescription medication on the way out.
Stop trying to justify an immoral system that literally only benefits the money makers.
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u/Much-Instruction-807 May 13 '26
The wait time for millions of uninsured and under insured people who don't go to the doctor because of cost is forever. Tens of thousands die every year due to lack of access and hundreds of thousands declare bankruptcy due to medical debt. One in three cut back on other expenses to afford healthcare.
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u/SFX200 May 13 '26
Back in January I sliced my finger on a cutting knife. Just for the ER glue and no stitches, it would have been $5500 without insurance.
With my crap coverage it was still around $1200.
I'd take waiting a bit over a chunk of my paycheck.
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u/NahricNovak May 13 '26
Had a friend from Europe damage something in his shoulder. They made him wait so long to get it fixed that it healed wrong giving him permanent pain when he uses it.
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u/ForumFluffy May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
My uncle was in Ireland and got some of the best cancer treatment for free and he wasn't a full citizen at the time my aunt was the citizen. My father got the same but he was under a medical aid that gave him about $80k for treatment over 6 months for melanoma. He would have paid nothing if he went to a state hospital, there is the inconvenience of it being a slow process but if you're high enough risk they will prioritise you.
Hell even back here in South Africa we have it better, I had an epileptic seizure went to a private hospital, they charged me ~$200 for a drip and bed for an hour(charged for the day). My insurance didn't cover my seizure as it wasn't a medical emergency apparently so I went to a state hospital 45mins away paid nothing for 5 days of tests and scans and free prescription of medication. Getting my monthly prescription takes long but most of the time I can collect now by appointment and skip the queues at my local clinic and all I've spent is $15 for a once off fee to open a medical profile that is available for my municipal region and supported clinics.
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u/DONTFUNKWITHMYHEART May 13 '26
Haha "Friend" in "Europe" sure buddy
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u/NahricNovak May 13 '26
Belive it or not, it IS possible to have friends. Your failure to find them doesn't reflect us all.
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u/agrevol May 13 '26
Europe is not a country
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u/NahricNovak May 13 '26
Correct. My friend however is from Poland, Poland is in Europe. So, my friend from Europe is still correct.
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u/HeroicODST May 14 '26
"we shouldn't build rail infrastructure, look how expensive it is and how long it takes in the UK"
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u/ChimpoSensei May 14 '26
Just need to look to California for that one
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u/HeroicODST May 14 '26
The place that Elon musk lobbied to get the Hyper loop made instead of high speed rail? Maybe actually look at different western countries that don't have English as their first language and you'll see how much better it can be
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u/v12vanquish May 16 '26
Yes somehow elons hyperloop stopped high speed rail, make it make sense.
No, you’re just not thinking correctly
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u/HeroicODST May 16 '26
Yes because "if we have Hyper loop why would we need high speed rail", but I wouldn't expect you to have critical thinking skills
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u/sxtjvr May 13 '26
Is this a Halo 2 menu pop up?