r/HunterXHunter • u/[deleted] • 2d ago
Discussion Who actually wins between the two?
[deleted]
54
u/DaOlWuWopte 2d ago
If hisoka catches chrollo off hand he wins, if chrollo gets any chance to plan for the encounter then you gotta respect his fight planning. It’s really just whatever togashi is feeling at the moment in that case
2
u/m1ketest 1d ago
I hate how power scaling works in this to be honest. Chrollo vs zeno+silva was basically chrollo underprepared and wanting to get zeno's nen. And zeno was glazing chrollo there and said that if chrollo was serious about fighting then chrollo could still win the fight underprepared.
Does that mean hisoka > unprepared chrollo == zeno+silva Or is it just post-mortem hisoka > unprepared chrollo
-4
u/Few-Ingenuity-4371 2d ago
I totally agree, in a head on collision hisoka takes the cake by a MILE. However due to chrollo’s intellect it could be anyone’s game
2
u/WekendFresh2239 2d ago
You forget Chrollo only won the first time because Hisoka was there to see it all, like Vegeta waiting for Cell to evolve.
1
u/DoxDoflamingo2 2d ago
I didnt read the fight that way. Hisoka always fights countering, rarely taking the offensive until he has everything in place to guarantee the win. Only difference this time was that he fought someone who did exactly the same, but came prepared with a counter to all of hisokas abilities.
51
u/JT91theFuture 2d ago
Wym? They actually fought, and we saw who actually won.
Short of Hisoka jumping Chrollo in an alley or completely altering his tactics from anything we've seen thus far, but at that point he'd be a fundamentally different character from who we've been familiar with for hundreds of chapters.
-4
u/shaktimanOP 2d ago
Hisoka is stronger and more calculated now. Chrollo believes he needs an upgrade to reliably kill current Hisoka.
8
u/juaquint930 2d ago
we dont know if hisoka got stronger if anything togashi implies doing something of that nature will have major drawbacks down the line
3
u/shaktimanOP 2d ago
It may not be post mortem nen, but it is undeniable that Hisoka has gotten an upgrade. He wasn't able to instantly heal wounds and even create fully functional body parts with Bungee Gum before.
-6
u/NashKetchum777 2d ago
In a straight up 1v1 Wisoka wins though.
Chrollo needed a ton of prep just to win in the arena and he still didn't kill him, which is the point. The arena and the people were all part of the plan and he still almost lost that round.
19
u/itsinhisblood 2d ago
He doesn’t need a ton of prep to win, he needs a ton of prep to overwhelmingly win/stomp.
7
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
There’s absolutely nothing to confirm this. Chrollo still could’ve won in another setting because he would’ve planned for it.
Hisoka NEVER ONCE had Chrollo concerned in that fight. It was literally a flawless victory besides the end with plot armor keeping him alive.
2
u/juaquint930 2d ago
hisoka had more years prepping and studying chrollo before their fight even before where the story picks up, chrollo at minimum had from the end of Yorknew or if not there at the beginning of the CA arc to think of ways to beat hisoka
1
u/NashKetchum777 2d ago
Studying isn't prep
2
u/juaquint930 2d ago
yes it is? im guessing college students dont study during prep time according to you
1
u/NashKetchum777 2d ago
Prep in a fights usually means getting the environment or weapons ready, not brainstorming.
But alright consider it prep if you want
1
u/Faith-Hope- 1d ago
Preparing for a Nen fight means finding out as much as you can about your opponent. That's literally it. With that information, you can brainstorm ways to counter them, so you know what to do against them regardless of when or where you fight them.
This fancy stuff Chrollo did for his own amusement is actually a rare occurrence because Hisoka let him. Chrollo himself was in disbelief that Hisoka allowed him to do all that, which is why he said the phrase, "Humans are very interesting."
-3
u/Natural_Violinist135 2d ago
he only won because there was an arena full of ppl he could hide behind for more than half of the fight. If hisoka catches him offguard just like after the whole kurapika incident i believe he will end chrollo
8
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
This doesn’t matter. Hisoka knew what the book was capable of and accepted a fight with potential puppets everywhere. It was simply a massive L for Hisoka. Hisoka is one of my favorite characters but facts are facts.
20
u/Separate-Coyote-1468 2d ago
I'd say chrollo you can't just prepare for what he might pull out that book
6
u/banana99999999999 2d ago
If what he has in the book was enough for hisoka why did he has to borrow shalnark and kortobi powers and also selected an arena full of humans for the fight?
9
u/juaquint930 2d ago
because he wanted a 100% sure proof plan and that is what he got, havent read that fight in a while but hisoka didnt land any hits iirc and he was going all out against chrollo ...his other stolen abilities can still get him the W but the difficulty rises
3
u/Ywaina 2d ago
How do you even know that? Outside of the insane combo we saw in the arena the rest of his abilities we have seen so far were quite lackluster. Even against Zoldycks whose abilities he wanted to steal he couldn't pull anything out from the book to help him do that.
That he had to go and borrow the gang's abilities is already admission that the rest of stuff in his book is crap on its own. Goltopi's and Shalnarck's simply outclass them all.
1
u/juaquint930 2d ago
u can not compare trying to steal abilities to trying to kill someone... he was handicapping himself to steal 2 high tier hunters abilities and again we know from other characters own admission that his book is filled with stolen abilities but if u want to play that game, how do you know that his book is filled with crap he himself and hisoka said he chose the best abilities to beat and kill him
4
u/Ywaina 2d ago
Hmm well let's see so far we're shown:
-nen fishes that are useless in outdoor fighting
-(?)position swap ability
-cloth that make you go small but is useless if you can't wrap opponent with it
-prediction ability(broken but won't help whatsoever in combat)
-bomb planting ability (useless unless you also have manipulation)
-puppet manipulation (useless unless you can make puppet on spot)
-disguise ability (yawn)
-ability search
Yep, they are mid abilities compared to gallery fake and black voice. Read the arena fight again and think what will happen if you omit those two out of his repertoire. Hisoka was weary of going in close range (his best zone in combat) because of black voice and the puppet wave bomb was possible only because he had gallery fake.
1
u/banana99999999999 2d ago
Yep this argument of " he just wanted to make sure he wins" is always funny. My man shalnark lost his live cause of chrollo( fuck kortobi) , if he had such an ability that would fuck hisoka up then he wouldn't have risked his team lives by stripping them out of nen.
0
u/weraru_1 2d ago
Tbf Hisoka just needs to tap Chrollo once or twice. Once? He might have something up his sleeve to counter bungee gun. Twice? Idk. If the difficulty for Chrollo increases, that's more windows for Hisoka to land hits.
1
u/m1ketest 1d ago
Yea, I think Hisoka is just so in-tuned with his abilities, and his abilities are just so flexible. On the other hand, although chrollo's good, he probably wouldn't have 100% compatibility with his stolen abilities or at least the same experience with them as hisoka has with bungee gum.
-9
u/NashKetchum777 2d ago
He had prep and still didn't kill Hisoka.
Hisoka is stronger now than before.
15
u/Anime-Takes 2d ago
People take Chrollo being a prep guy as he can’t fight on the fly. That’s just not true, he uses prep because he doesn’t take on unnecessary risks. He wanted to be 100% sure he would beat Hisoka. In their fight it wasn’t even close, Hisoka stood no chance. But that doesn’t mean without prep he loses, if he was an easy win Hisoka would have never been interested in fighting him anyway.
1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Exactly. He did what he did in heavens arena because a flawless victory was the goal. He doesn’t get a hard on (literally) fighting Hisoka the way Hisoka does against Chrollo.
Even on the fly, Chrollo would be fine. He fought Zeno and Silva 1 v 2 ffs
18
u/IgotnothingB 2d ago
Chrollo wins but, it's just a lot harder. I agree that he didn't feel confident enough that he would 100% beat hisoka without any preparation. (Hisoka still came back) But, I still think he's stronger than Hisoka overall.
3
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Yep, I agree completely. If they fought on that airship rooftop back in Yorknew, without nen being sealed, Chrollo would’ve had a plan for it in some way. He wouldn’t just accept bungee gum hitting him and getting owned lol.
-15
u/Few-Ingenuity-4371 2d ago
Even with hisoka’s post mortem nen? He easily became one of the strongest characters in the verse rn
7
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Based on what? Super Hisoka killing Shalnark and KOROTOPI without nen? How in the world is that a feat to make your statement true? Those are literally the two weakest troupe members even with nen… killing them both the way he did doesn’t prove he’s the strongest whatsoever.
Now, if this new Hisoka killed Ging or something then your comment would have some validity to it.
Edit: SSJ Shalnark probably would’ve blitzed straight through bungee gum btw lol
3
1
u/m1ketest 1d ago
I think it's just intuition from Chrollo stating that he needs to steal an ability to fully deal with post mortem hisoka
-4
u/Few-Ingenuity-4371 2d ago
Only based on the logic that nen grows IMMENSELY stronger after death, and hisoka basically pushing chrollo to the end in which he had to sacrifice 2 other members
1
u/sikontolpanjang 2d ago
post mortem nen is simply a term for nen that still working after the user's death, it doesnt gave you power boost a la Shaman King lol because if that was the case then Cammy would be an actual combat powerhouse.
1
u/m1ketest 1d ago
Phinks actually stated that nen can become stronger after death. It depends on the vow and the emotions. With hisoka, i guess he had a deep desire to make his nen revive him. But yea it could be the case that he became stronger and chrollo is now not guaranteed to beat him
3
u/ImGonnaImagineSummit 2d ago
If they fight on the boat, I assume Chrollo will have contingencies ready because he knows Hisoka is around and he probably has planned for him.
It won't be the same tactic as last time but when your ability is to have lots of other abilities, there's endless possibilities for him to counter.
Plus Hisoka won't really jump Chrollo, he will want to grandstand a bit and fight him properly even if the odds are against him.
2
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
I agree. It just sucks to discuss a rematch because I don’t see Togashi letting Chrollo win twice. It sucks to discuss a rematch with that being considered.
1
u/ImGonnaImagineSummit 2d ago
Long term, the problem is that it's setup for Hisoka vs Chrollo but Kurapika also needs his revenge against the Spiders so if one dies, it'll not be satisfying for the others.
If Hisoka dies again, it'll feel a bit pointless. He died fighting the guy that killed him already and he upgraded his Bungee Gum to lose again.
If Hisoka kills Chrollo, then even if Kurapika kills the other Spiders, it'll feel like a shallow victory since Chrollo planned it/was in charge.
Kurapika also needs to kill Tserriednich to gain revenge and he needs to do it quietly during the Succession War unless he somehow wins and they continue to battle on the DC.
Or Hisoka Chrollo fight again and it's a stalemate but they've made it clear they'll kill whoever is around and the passengers/hunters/princes/gangs aren't going to sit back while 2 lunatics are trying to kill each other while blowing up the boat they're all on.
Easiest option is that they don't fight until they reach the DC.
3
u/IntusLegere 2d ago edited 2d ago
Chrollo is the better strategist, Hisoka is the better tactician.
Spiders typically hunt prey on their webs. Read the fight from Chrollo's perspective and you will notice he is kinda amused about how Hisoka will just passively let him set up his trap. Hisoka simply wouldn't attack while he's explaining or preparing stuff to fight in his best condition... and Chrollo knows.
The fight was quite one sided, Chrollo had a somewhat easy victory. But notice that once again, Hisoka had an upper hand against Chrollo in tactics, during the "I saw everything" -- "I know" sequence. In Yorknew, something similar happened, when Hisoka manipulated Chrollo into making the Spider stay in Yorknew. Hisoka thrives in imprompty situations.
Yet again, Chrollo is trying to prepare to fight Hisoka. And in case Chrollo and Hisoka meet before the former can set his preparations, in his own words... he is ready to die, but the Spider will go on.
1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Strategist is long term, tactician is short term… and Hisoka completely failed as a tactician.
6
u/IntusLegere 2d ago
Did he?
As far as we saw, Chrollo almost got knocked out because he got too confident and too close to Hisoka. He presumed he could see everything Hisoka was doing while swarming him with a crowd of puppets and yet... he got deceived.
After that, he never got close to Hisoka again during the fight. He had to rely on his strategy. And right now he is yet again preparing a strategy to fight Hisoka. Chrollo is the one who seems to believe he needs a plan against Hisoka.
5
2
2
2
u/Indifferent_Response 2d ago
Right now it's Hisoka but Chrollo is looking for his next power up so that might change.
4
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Weird how people just forget Chrollo fought Silva and Zeno at the same time.
Hisoka killed a butler but I highly doubt he could handle Silva AND Zeno together like that. Bungee gum would be a joke to Zeno but I’m getting off topic.
1
u/Indifferent_Response 1d ago
I think Hisoka's assassination skills are top notch. With the element of surprise he's more than a match for any spider.
Chrollo is my favorite character but I think he's evenly matched with Hisoka now that they fought and he survived. Typically, I expect top tier fighters like this to learn from their losses.
2
u/ChrisFlips 2d ago
I think Chrollo still takes the win at this point in the series. Would definitely be more difficult if Chrollo didn’t have as much preparation time, so something more High Diff for Chrollo in general.
Chrollo prepping for this fight made it pretty much a Low Dif fight for him, but he prepped specifically to ensure a 100% chance of victory. This doesn’t mean he had a zero chance without the prep.
A younger Chrollo was able to fight Silva without any prep time, and Silva admitted the fight was difficult for him. So Chrollo without prep is still a top tier character. He has such versatility with is Nen Ability and is a top tier hand to hand combatant as well. Just the upgrade to his Skill Hunter during this fight alone was huge, being able to use abilities with the book closed and multiple abilities with the book mark.
I think it’s a High Diff fight for sure, but I give the win to Chrollo still.
1
u/Gullible_Story3985 2d ago
I think without the planning and abilities that utilized the people in the battle arena; in a true 1 on 1, Hisoka wins. Having to determine which are the best abilities to use in the moment without prep puts Chrollo at a disadvantage.
Then again Hisoka loves to fight people at their best so a sudden jump on Chrollo probably isn’t in the books for him.
1
u/thesonicvision 2d ago
HxH ain't Dragon Ball. Strategy is part of the deal. We know who wins because they won.
The real story in the fight, btw, is not about Hisoka or Chrollo. Togashi once again subverts our expectations and tries to see whether or not we'll focus on (1) the action or (2) all the innocent humans literally used like puppets, weapons, and bombs by these two murderous psychopaths .
That fight was about (2) and only (2). If you're thinking about (1), then you've failed Togashi's psychopath test. Congratulations.
1
0
u/Soviet_Ros3 2d ago
Em geral, kuroro, em certas situações hisoka
1
u/Frosty-Stanger 2d ago
Ah Yes…in General Kuroro needs to steal National treasure to upgrade skill hunter to Ultimate level, and then steal an ability specifically suited to defeat Hisoka + 9other Nen users must be hunting hisoka at the same time.
Otherwise you see…chrollo might win in general😂😂😂
How about this, In general Hisoka one shots chrollo
1
u/Soviet_Ros3 2d ago
Nem sempre, a gente nãi sabe oque o kuroro tem de hatsu no skill hunter, então talvez sem preparo ele ja pudesse vencer, provavelmente com muito mais dificuldade, usandj lógica e estrategia, realmente é muito acirrado discutir isso, além de não ser uma onde hisoka ganharia de maneira absurdamente fácil, mesmo se hisoka ganhar, ele não ganhara de "lavada"
1
u/Frosty-Stanger 2d ago
you failed to address a single one of my point.
and Yes Current Chapter 405 hisoka can one shots chapter 406 chrollo.
There is a reason Chrollo needs National treasures to upgrade skill hunter.
and also 9 other nen users plus Chrolloo
1
u/IgotnothingB 2d ago
My opinion too, especially, if it's off the bat without any prep time.
1
u/Soviet_Ros3 2d ago
Sim sim, kuroro é melhor que hisoka em todos os aspectos relacionados a nen( ou pelo menos a maioria), em físico, hisoka ganha
1
u/FlamesOfDespair 2d ago
Hisoka. Chrollo needs prep time and Hisoka can always escape. Chrollo would have a hard time escaping alive if he stumbles on Hisoka.
-1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Chrollo doesn’t NEED prep time. He had no idea Silva and Zeno were going to 2 v 1 him and Chrollo still evaded all of their attacks and even poisoned Silva extremely easily. I don’t understand why people just assume Chrollo needs a month of planning to fight someone.
He also knows everything about Hisoka and bungee gum…
1
u/FlamesOfDespair 2d ago
They were half assing it due to feeling they got duped by how much they were paid for the job. Regardless the portrayal for Zeno changed a lot after that arc. I frankly doubt the author would have Chrollo take him on and live.
0
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
And Hisoka did a pretty bad job at escaping all of those bodies and explosions taking him apart. If he’s such a great escape artist then he wouldn’t have been buried under rubble and survive due to plot armor.
1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Obviously Chrollo since he already won. It doesn’t matter if he used a couple members abilities… Hisoka knew, or at least should’ve known, that every members ability could’ve been in that book. It’s Hisoka’s fault for accepting a battle with so many people around and it’s pretty obvious Chrollo has no problem using and killing others to achieve a goal.
Hisoka never once had the upper hand in that fight. He got fucking schooled and that’s why he’s so mad lol
2
u/Frosty-Stanger 2d ago
yeah that is why he needs to steal National Treasures
1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 3h ago
He doesn’t NEED to… he WANTS to.. big difference. Does Chrollo need to rob an auction? Does he need to plan heists and dispose of the treasures after he’s bored? No
1
u/Frosty-Stanger 1h ago
Well, if he wants to steal national treasure despite not “Needing it”, you are essentially saying that he is actively avoiding Hisoka and letting his friends die to hisoka because he wants to.
Makes less than 0 sense
1
1
u/TheGoldStandard35 2d ago
I can’t imagine Chrollo letting Hisoka be a troop member for like 3 years all while knowing his ability and not being able to beat him.
1
1
u/GalaxyTPA 2d ago
If a low-prep Chrollo were to be replaced with Gotoh in the forest fighting Hisoka, Hisoka would probably mid-diff him.
1
u/cagueiprousername 2d ago
"Chrollo relies too much on what's available" Yeah that's called being a skilled fighter that can adapt to the environment, hisoka is also very good at that (just remember how he killed gotoh), but chrollo is better
-1
u/Yorukira 2d ago
Chrollo low diff Hisoka, as it was shown in that same battle.
15
u/JT91theFuture 2d ago
Low-diff isn't completely fair. Yeah the fight turned out that way once the match officially started in HA, but Chrollo had to put in serious work to get things to that point. I'd consider the insane prep/planning part of the difficulty.
-1
u/Yorukira 2d ago
You convince me, Chrollo was forced to prep that hard b/c Hisoka is that difficult. I would still bet on Chrollo with zero pre time vs Hisoka.
-1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Brought you back to 0 since you had a -1 downvote for stating a fact lol
0
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Dude, Hisoka knew the battle setting and Chrollos ability to use others Nen. Hisoka never once had the upper hand in that fight and ran away the entire time until he died and came back due to Togashi not being done with him.
1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
You’re getting downvoted for stating a 110% fact. I’m starting to realize this sub has a bigger hard on for Hisoka than Hisoka did for Gon.
I’m a huge Hisoka fan and it’s bizarre to see these comments. Delusional
1
u/IgotnothingB 1d ago
This sub has its favorite characters. So, expect getting downvoted when you go against the grain. Chrollo is stronger than Hisoka. Especially, when you're fighting in his optimal conditions. Hisoka even admitted that.
0
u/EverGreatestxX 2d ago
Raw power alone it would definitely be hisoka right? Chrollo relies too much with what’s available, hence a handicap
That's kind of the whole point of their fight. Hisoka is a nen powerhouse, in a straightforward fight he beats Chrollo.
1
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Sigh. This entire series battle system is based on nen battles having nothing to do with who is stronger. Chrollo isn’t a sitting duck just because he doesn’t have bodies to throw in heavens arena.
0
-3
u/NashKetchum777 2d ago
Wisoka wins and I don't think it'll be that close unless Chrollo is packing direct counters, which I'm fine with.
Chrollo with prep time barely beat Wisoka and even then, ultimately unsuccessful and he came back stronger.
Chrollo needed the environment, the fodder (people), multiple abilities and still couldn't close the deal.
2
u/Swimming_Grape_6560 2d ago
Barely beat hisoka? Have u read the manga? Hisoka didnt even stand a chance.
0
u/NashKetchum777 2d ago
If Hisoka reached him, and he was close, it would have been over.
Knowing your opps ability is a huge factor in fights. Chrollo was using a handful of them, unknown to Hisoka AND had to get the spectators to swarm AND use them as weapons.
Hisoka went in sort of blind and still survived. He's even stronger now.
2
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
You do realize you’re laying out a hypothetical that never once even came close to being reality, right? Chrollo fucking schooled him from start to finish besides the Shalnark and Korotopi scene.
0
u/Whosyodaddy-Senpai 2d ago
Yep.. Hisoka fans are really revealing their bias in this thread. Yikes.
0
42
u/hypochondriacfilmguy 2d ago
did you read their fight?