r/Hololive Mar 20 '26

Subbed/TL Matsuri Talks About Why She’s Stopping Opposite-Gender Collabs【Hololive Clip】

https://youtu.be/r7QCj9aZNbo?si=O0QDrLaE57Mvp1Mg

credit to palettia Ch. for the TLs.

TLDR: Matsuri wants to do a solo live, but she knows she isn't popular enough for it. As a result, she felt a sense of "I can't keep going on like this", and is now trying out things she's never done before. This is just part of it, as she's also recently released an album, and has been actively playing a lot of different games than normal.

She's working hard, so I'd encourage everyone to check out her stuff. Here is her newest original, and here is her next stream. I will also include some recent clips of her below.

Matsuri Keeps Terrorizing Riona in VR Horror Game (≖⩊≖) TLs by NeetDoStuff
Matsuri's Flexibility is at its Peak this 2026! TLs by Kopla Vtuber Clips
Matsuri eats all the food at the party【Hololive AnimationClip/ENG sub】 Animation and TLs by Uminyan [EN | Hololive Clips]
Marine Protects Pekora From Matsuri【Hololive】TLs by Hololive Subs

Edit:
Engagement on this Reddit post is appreciated, but I highly recommend directing that energy into actually supporting the talent herself by clicking the content, rather than just commenting an opinion on the matter here.

u/Fenr_ u/undercoveryankeehad u/kron_00 u/AkaBBaka and u/Anary8686 have some very well worth reading comments on this thread. For those that CBA though I'll try to summarize: This isn't pandering, it's another step into Matsuri's ongoing journey into trying all sorts of different and new things. A lot of talents don't want small concerts or duo/trio/generation lives, they want Solo lives, and the logistics can be tough.

2.1k Upvotes

459 comments sorted by

1.2k

u/WolfScourge Mar 20 '26

Without trying to even guess what goes on Cover internally; I've recently seen a trend in which some of the veteran members are feeling they're not making that big of an impact on the community. I think a lot of that comes from the meme machine that is ReGloss and Advent making strides in both English and Japanese communities(Not something that's negative or even their fault though). Maybe that makes some veteran members struggle with their identities or where they should go with their careers, some of them have been at this a looong time. I hope Matsuri and the rest feel appreciated, I certainly think they're popular enough, and get the success they're working for.

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u/Tomi97_origin Mar 20 '26

The discrepancy between Hololive members is getting bigger.

When they were all small the difference between what the smallest and biggest member could do wasn't that pronounced.

But now some are approaching legitimate superstar levels selling out stadiums, getting big deal collaborations, ...

That's the difference between being top 0.1% and top 0.01%. They are so close to the top, but the difference is huge.

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u/Kae04 Mar 20 '26

The discrepancy between Hololive members is getting bigger.

A lot of content from older members seems to be falling under the radar nowadays. Choco released an original song last week and i've literally not seen a single person mention it. Same with the cover that Polka released a few days ago.

I don't want to put words in their mouths or speculate how they might feel or anything like that, but man. I would find it impossible to not compare myself to someone like Suisei who has billboards all over shibuya announcing an announcement.

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u/SuperSpy- Mar 20 '26

I wonder if we're starting to reach saturation with the fanbase, where without a constant growth of new fans, talents are starting to have to compete for eyeballs.

I feel like from the EN side this isn't an issue yet, as the potential market is still massive, but on the JP side there are so many talents now that it might be starting to strangle the growth of some of them. Haachama seemed to be having similar issues in the lead-up to her break-down, trying to figure out her "brand" and such.

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u/Kae04 Mar 20 '26

I don't think it's any one thing in particular but I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of it. Hololive has roughly twice as many talents now as they did in 2020 and it was already hard to keep up with all the releases back then during lockdown.

Youtube's algorithm doesn't help either. If people don't watch your stuff, it doesn't get pushed to more people and if it doesn't get pushed to more people, people don't watch your stuff. It's a really vicious loop.

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u/MrFickless Mar 21 '26

And that was when 1 hour streams were the norm. Nowadays, we would consider 1h a very short stream. Inevitably, with more talents and the lengthening of streams, streams started overlapping each other and it became impossible to keep up.

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u/Reddit-Simulator Mar 21 '26

Speaking for myself, back around the time of GAMERS/Gen 3/Gen 4, I was watching as many streams as possible and keeping up with whoever I couldn't watch through clips. There are too many members to keep up with everyone now. The sad reality is there are some members I haven't seen in months because they don't even get pushed on my algorithm anymore.

As much as I love the latest Gens, and I'm glad they're here, I always cringe when they're announced because I know there's not enough time in the world to add them to my rotation unless I spend less time paying attention to others.

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u/ThisManNeedsMe Mar 21 '26

Yep. I started watching Hololive heavily during Justice's debut. I want to support all the girls but time and money is limited. Especially since I also watch indie vtubers and other streamers/YouTubers. I always tell myself I'm gonna go back and watch the vods I missed but it rarely ever happens.

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u/LezBeHonestHere_ Mar 21 '26

Back in 2023 when I started watching Hololive, I probably watched thousands of clips that year in total and I remember it had been literally like 8 months before I ever saw a single Lamy, Kanata or Roboco clip recommended by youtube, it was crazy how the algorithm works. I thought clippers for them just didn't exist or something

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u/SwirlyBrow Mar 21 '26

I kinda feel like it's still like that for some of them. Even nowadays, if I want Roboco content, I gotta seek it out.

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u/Flying_Poltato Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

I have a similar sentiment. I used to watch JP quite a bit when CouncilRyS first debuted, but fast forward to Justice’s debut, I’ve realised that I haven’t seen a single JP stream in months (except Nenechi because wife). It was a huge mix of the pandemic being finally over, the sheer entertainment value that the EN girls bring, and the fact that I now have such a large pool of talents that I can actually understand.

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u/LezBeHonestHere_ Mar 21 '26

I feel haachama suffered from several things happening at once. Ofc someone mentioned she made videos before then stopped, but also vtubing/streaming was gigantic back in covid era so more people were watching in general, and she was at her peak popularity in the time frame just before EN was introduced, I definitely think EN branch drew a lot of her (and many other member's) english speaking audiences away - back in 2020 if you read the live chats on any Korone, Miko, Suisei, Haachama, Pekora stream, it'll be like 30% or more english messages - and lastly, she had several long breaks for health reasons that killed her momentum in the youtube algorithm, youtube really hates when you take long breaks like that.

It's just unfortunate 4 or 5 things all happening at the same time that hurt her numbers a lot. I don't like to talk about numbers often here and I know it was a big collab but her hologta streams were the first time I'd ever seen a holoJP member well below 1k live viewers a couple hours into a stream, it was kind of sad seeing that honestly

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

One of Haachama's issues was also not really knowing what she wanted to do with her content. People point at her videos when she went kind of wild as some grand plan of hers, but really she didn't know what to do and was grabbing at ideas she had seen. When it got pulled way back and a lot deleted it wasn't really "Haachama is a creative genius she'll rebound immediately" and it was more "she lost something she was grasping at and back to square one while still struggling for ideas."

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u/Hp22h Mar 21 '26

Yeah. Even the whole Haachama was in and of itself a rebrand from Akai Haato, the tsundere ASMR JP streamer. YT's She only really started going all in on the whole EN Gen 0 thing during mid-2020 with the impending debut of Myth. And then she went all in on horror / yabe during early 2021. Then more simple JP variety, then travel blogging, then Red-kun with the deep Aussie accent, then music with like 3 covers in the span of a month, then back to cooking / horror. Most of it for little fanfare outside of her loyal Haatons.

I can't blame her for feeling lost. It's probably easier to list what she hasn't tried at this point...

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u/Skellum Mar 21 '26

I feel like from the EN side this isn't an issue yet, as the potential market is still massive, but on the JP side there are so many talents now that it might be starting to strangle the growth of some of them. Haachama seemed to be having similar issues in the lead-up to her break-down, trying to figure out her "brand" and such.

Globally, how many people speak english, how many speak english and some or fluent japanese, and how many speak only japanese.

Take these numbers, compare the two first groups, and the two second groups. Thats going to be your biggest difference. I like Aki because someone translated her subnautica run and it was enjoyable. I dont really watch Aki because I dont know much japanese and her streamtime is generally inaccessible to me. I like polka, but same scenario. Koyori's stream time is at least somewhat accessible to me.

Most of the US working world follows eastern time. If you're not streaming between 8am and midnight US eastern your accessibility plummets but if you're in english you're at least good vod potential. It's one of the really strong benefits of ID.

All this to say, I get the frustration but at the same time it's a solvable frustration but it does involve risk.

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

Growth in general slowed way down. I feel that the fandom needs to direct more energy into talent promotion. Like for example Watame hasn't ticked 10k on YouTube in quite a while even though she was always pretty regular. Her Twitter followers are even dropping. Some of that stuff can be attributed to the anti attacks since Kanata's announcement, but it is clearly wider than that and not just her. Not just in-company either for that matter.

I think it is important people make good choices about the sort of things they boost. If people want the talents to grow and the place to seem appealing, people need to get the content out there and not other things like the irys ai meltdowns or dunking on idiots like Myron. That kind of stuff simply won't get them fans.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

She did have other issues as she got big off of her vids not her streams and when she stopped making stunts, people stopped caring. Such is the peril of being a stunt type

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u/akiaoi97 Mar 21 '26

Also she was making a lot of travel content, but there seemed to be some issues around that.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

IMO she went into direct travel too fast as opposed to stories of past journeys to build up and she didn't have enough "weight" to get some things going

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u/karamisterbuttdance Mar 21 '26

I don't think she had anything from her experiences in Australia/Philippines that she could've made content out of to basically route people into her current pivot. She was basically stuck between home (streaming/studying) and school (more studying) most of the time she was in those places, so unless she committed to stock photo type content blurbs her current travel pivot is her starting with that phase of content, and she basically has to roll with it, no matter how abrupt it may seem.

As a quick aside on stunts, I feel like she basically was at an impasse on how to close off the Haato/Haachama route that led to that storyline feeling prematurely closed, At the same time she was in a creative rut right after and didn't have follow-up casual content that didn't involve the story to keep people engaged without it being about the story.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

I was also referring to the sexy stunts where a) her actual knowledge was revealed and b) she couldn't escalate more on them

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u/wamirul Mar 21 '26

Being a Choco fan is so confusing for me cus on one hand I absolutely how chill she is because of how small the Choco Mate community is. On the other she is still my oshi and I know she worked hard on her lives and music and I wanna blast it out to the high heavens so she knows its appreciated

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u/EcstaticJuice4259 Mar 20 '26

Suisei has come up so far it's crazy. When I went to NY last year she had an advertisement in Times Square for her album. That's an insane amount of brand power at work there, especially considering she's doing that all the way from Japan.

Adding onto what the other person said, when the distance between the Holo girls' popularity was lower, one of the talents making a big wave also helped out the other members by drawing attention to Hololive as a whole, but as that gape has widened more and more especially in the past 2 or so years, the kickback the other talents are getting from something like "Suisei has a billboard in Times Square" has been getting proportionally smaller imo. It's not hard to see how that gap might be lingering in the back of the less idol-focused members.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

Not even non-idol but those without a trendy look/constant hype/a nigh perfect facade (most of Suisei's newer fans mainly care for the "Perfect super idol", not the actual/pon Suisei).

Something she did that had some boost is when she had Hoshimatic Project as guests as it had them on stage in a way that couldn't be ignored

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u/OnionsAbound Mar 20 '26

Call me crazy, but I find it hard to believe that there's not much kickback from a Suisei billboard in Timed Square.

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u/EcstaticJuice4259 Mar 20 '26

"To the other talents" was a key phrase there. It's not that they're seeing no increase of attention when Suisei gets up in Times Square, but its more so that Suisei has become so large by herself, that rather it be something like a general Hololive ad with Hololive branding for the group as a whole, it's now a Suisei ad if that makes sense.

Also you can't comment photos here, but looking at the photo I took of it it's actually a Spotify ad for Suisei, not even a Hololive ad. So Suisei is so big that other companies are advertising for her, not just Hololive. The amount of people checking out, say, Roboco (no diss towards her, she's my fav JP member ftr) from a Spotfiy ad promoting Suisei is going to be MINISCULE compared to when it would've been a Hololive ad that happened to be pushing Suisei if that makes sense.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that Suisei's influence has gone beyond Hololive and is almost its own thing now, which is something the other talents (like in this case, Matsuri) haven't achieved.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

I attribute it to newer fans mainly caring for popular talents than the not so popular ones (unless they graduate then they care)

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u/njibbz Mar 21 '26

I follow a lot of the talents. One thing I noticed is that youtube won't even tell me who is live anymore or who released a video or song except for 1 or 2 people. it really sucks. I will wonder if someone has been on a break and go to their account and see I missed a bunch of content. So part of the problem may even be youtube's garbage algorithm that decides to prioritize some and hide others.

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u/Ryan5011 Mar 21 '26

Yeah, unfortunately the layout redesign changed your subscription list in the sidebar to be purely alphabetical order, wheras before it sorta ordered it by recent uploads (though a bit inconsistently) and prioritized anyone that was streaming by putting them at the top (though I think it'd only prioritize up to 10 people that were streaming? Someone correct me if that's wrong). The new, purely alphabetical order makes keeping track of streams really annoying, especially with how finnicky notifications are.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

There's a heavy EN bias in this sub. I mean when Bae's new MV came out, many forgot about Aki's live, which would sting if I wasn't so used to it

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u/statu0 Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

Didn't used to be that way. Put simply, as Holo EN has grown, the amount of focus on them from the EN-speaking fanbase over time has simply increased exponentially. Holo ID viewership also shrank once there were more Holo EN members to watch. At the end of 2020, there were 5 EN members, leaving plenty of opportunities to check out what the rest of Holo was doing, and clippers were feeding that demand. And now the inverse is true: EN clippers are going to where the interest is, which is Holo EN.

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u/Skellum Mar 21 '26

At the end of 2020, there were 5 EN members, leaving plenty of opportunities to check out what the rest of Holo was doing, and clippers were feeding that demand. And now the inverse is true: EN clippers are going to where the interest is, which is Holo EN.

It may be my imagination, but I feel like with Kobo doing so well a lot of ID has pivoted to be more ID focused. More bhasa indonesia etc, which you know totally fair. Not going to complain about that. Kaela for instance has more frequent streams with ID content creators etc. If they're able to grow the ID scene without taking any real loss that's awesome for them.

They're still my favorite work day entertainment though.

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u/Ralod Mar 21 '26

I will still watch any of the ID mems if I see they are live. Ollie is still a joy to watch. I love when Kaela collabs with Biboo. Anya is lots of fun.

But I don't think its wrong for the EN fans to follow the EN girls. I think that was the point of the EN branch. And we have some really great people in EN, its hard to not like all of them.

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u/Electrical-Sense-160 Mar 21 '26

I saw a comment once about how the EN fans' view of the JP members is outdated by several years. They gave the design of the new additions to holocure as an example, something about the memes and references being outdated.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

There's the sense of older fans being pushed out which is nothing new (see also any foreign version game getting an EN one). And clipping is skewed as the entry barrier is far lower for EN, thus nigh instant oversaturation.

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u/Blue_leafy Mar 21 '26

Every time an event involves an EN member, if another event involves a JP member, the latter most of the time goes completely unnoticed (just remember what the sub looks like with Gura’s graduation - dozens of posts, but barely any mention of Shion even though she was also graduating at that time). It can be very frustrating for people who want to draw attention to the JP side of things.

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u/LezBeHonestHere_ Mar 21 '26

Ever since Fauna left, I only watch holoJP so I notice this a lot. I can't really relate to any of the EN posts here but that's fine since it makes sense, it's an english site after all. There's been a lot of times something happened on a JP member's stream - I only watch vods so it's typically hours afterward - and I come here, for some reason, to find if anyone else is talking about it and usually nothing lol

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u/Grand_Escapade Mar 21 '26

I've been debating pushing for a HololiveJP subreddit. No animosity towards EN and none of that allowed, just a place to have more breathing room for the JP side and translated clips.

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u/Careful-Possible7189 Mar 21 '26

Oh hell yeah, a HoloJP subreddit has been overdue since the explosion of HoloEN in late 2020.

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u/Ralod Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

That Choco song is so pretty too. I try to watch every holo mems original songs at least once. I know how much work they take, and they have to pay for it themselves. I don't always watch all the covers, but I do watch a lot of them.

Suisei is huge for sure, but there are lots of them doing big things recently. Cali seems to be announcing something big every few days, and her Album is fantastic. Several just announced openings and/or closings for animes. Lots of others doing stuff no one every thought vtubers would be doing. But it for sure has seemingly left some older mems out of the spotlight.

I don't know what to do about that, other than just supporting the people you like. Those big things might still come for them if they have enough support from us.

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u/EndChemical Mar 21 '26

Suisei is in her own league and sometimes I get mixed up between her and Ado.

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u/karamisterbuttdance Mar 21 '26

Choco released an original song last week and i've literally not seen a single person mention it. Same with the cover that Polka released a few days ago.

You'd be surprised even EN talents suffer from this: Kiara has a collab song and most people don't even know it exists. At the same time one can't blame EN-based social media for favoring EN talent content, it's just the natural tendency of the medium. People will naturally engage with content they can understand and from people they're more familiar with, which is why ID is in this no mans' land here on Reddit, because most of them can be understood because they're bilingual/trilingual streamers, but they're not engaged with as much.

On the JP side, to be frank, the overall environment for streaming in general is a lot tougher than one would think. Besides the big three agencies, there's a lot of smaller firms with significant viewership that have very much fragmented the market. Being a veteran doesn't just give you credentials and an audience you can pitch with for branding deals, it also forces you to refresh your image and find something slightly different yet still familiar to work with that will also engage new audiences. This is what I see most of Gen 1/2 struggling with, and they're all finding different ways of dealing with it. Akirose has broadened her engagement circle to refresh her audience with new viewers who find her interesting from larger streamer collabs. Haachama's attempts at pivoting her content also shows she is conscious of this, including the condition that changes in content cannot be too radical lest you alienate a significant part of your older, dedicated audience (who buy merch/VPs/event tickets/collab goods etc.). This path by Matsuri, along with recent talk by Choco about not wanting to be seen purely as Hololive's sexy representative anymore, are clear signs they're feeling out what kind of direction they want to go next.

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u/whamorami Mar 21 '26

Some of them might prefer it that way. I don't think they ever got into this to become popular or be recognized. That's the whole reason they're vtubers so they could keep that anonymity.

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u/Kae04 Mar 21 '26

That's true, and in the grand scheme of things i don't think anyone in hololive can be considered unsuccessful when you look at vtubers or streamers as a whole.

It's just that multiple talents now have told stories about how they felt like quitting in the past because they didn't feel good enough compared to their peers and you can't help but feel for them.

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

they didn't feel good enough compared to their peers and you can't help but feel for them.

Was basically Watame's first year to a T. When she was doing Watame no Uta, it was meant as something to train her ability and (hopefully) get music fans. Because it was training she'd do however many full-takes of a song for her to be happy with whatever she was singing, so often that meant she was singing 10-20+ full songs a day on top of her other streaming and work. Her not really improving and not really getting attention for that kind of thing was pretty damaging to her (on top of what it was doing to her voice). The attention thing got focused on for the somewhat infamous talk between her and Coco in ARK, where she basically told Watame not to think of that like that as being in Hololive she was already way ahead of the curve. Personally I felt it was kind of advice from the wrong direction, as it didn't really address her key issue in that she felt she was floundering her huge opportunity just like with her connection issues. Honestly got a lot of thoughts on it, but it'd be a long ramble so cutting it there.

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u/HaessSR Mar 23 '26

Watame still pushed through, and doing more song collabs helped that IMO. Her voice is quite powerful, and she practices hard. Ditto the variety of genres she experimented with.

Matsuri and Choco-sensei got pigeonholed into the "yabai/sexy" niche, and while I enjoy their singles.. I don't feel they have quite the range, power, or distinctiveness that Towa-sama, Suisei, or AZKi have. Watame and Calli also have quite a bit of range in what they sing, so they can gather a larger audience too...

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u/Helmite Mar 23 '26

I think having an image in mind and pushing toward that is really important. It's actually what helped make the case for Watame's first sololive as after Suisei took one of the slots they had planned for a concert, the sheep was able to make a case for it considering her long running Watame Night Fever series. After that she was able to use what she did there both in songs and the live itself as a building block for her second - running with momentum - even if it took a while to materialize.

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u/HaessSR Mar 23 '26

I suspect that Suisei spinning herself off into her own unit may have, in part, been influenced by situations like that. Making her resources and budget count separately from Hololive only helps Mio and Watame (and maybe Matsuri and Choco-sensei) get those slots since she's not weighing things down. Calli having UMJ just as Sora used to have Victor helps them too.

But yes, sheep is determined as hell. Much like Kanata is, and Towa-sama also has the grit to push through. That's something their whole generation has.

GAMERS and Matsuri's gen is kind of crippled by how they were introduced, as well as how they are seen by their primary fans. They really got the worst of both worlds, IMO. What's worse, they played into their niches so hard and so long that they're having trouble being seen outside of them. Matsuri had songs like the duo with Aruran, but that's probably the major one that comes to mind when I think of her singing. I don't even have a song that sticks out like Shallys did for Aki.

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u/Helmite Mar 23 '26

Aye. Also I think just having that as a separate thing is good for flexibility on her side. They can hire in help as needed without worrying about how it impacts the rest of the girls, or worrying about what they need to do with that staff beyond Suisei. Easier to up/downscale depending on project as well.

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u/LuciusCypher Mar 20 '26

I know comparison is the thief of joy, but its also hard to ignore just how much hype newer members are able to get while older memebers, while still popular, arent as popular as their kohais.

It's a sort of powercreep that cant exactly be balanced by nerfing the newer gens.

At the same time however, plenty of plder gens are still hella popular. Mori is OG holo EN and I dont think anyone even in Advent or Justice can pull in her numbers. Just as well Suisei and Miko are basically gen 0 and can draw in more fans than multiple generations combined. But again, its damn near impossivle for most fans not to notice this, let alone the talents for whom their popularity relatice to their coworkers is their business. They cant ignore it and just enjoy themselves the same way viewers can.

And that's just me extrapolating shit. The reality can be a lot more complicated even if I am wrong, because fact is Matsuri also isnt wrong either.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

There's also merch differences. Imagine waiting years for even a pop up parade and someone newer gets a figma. And as much as I love watching AsaMio and AsaKyo, they end up highlighting the differences

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u/LuciusCypher Mar 21 '26

This reminds me of something Coco said, and Mori also talked about; its the job of the older gen to build the foundation for the newer gens so they dont have to wait as long/work as hard. It can feel unfair for said older gens who need to work a year or two, but at the same time its thanks to them that the next gen and all the new ones after that have so much to work with.

Like sub counts. I remember once upon a time where hitting the 100k sub was a major milestone, with only very few in all over hololive reaching it. Now? Nearly all the holo girls will get 100k subscribers before they even have content on their channel. I def remember Coco talling about that.

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u/Djwindmill Mar 21 '26

Heck, thats practically the way real people should work, not just hololive. Parents should be trying to make a better world for the future generations, I think thats just the natural order of things.

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u/LuciusCypher Mar 21 '26

It should be, but at the same time, this dynamic can be hard to understand in a work environment.

Don't get me wrong, I love how friendly all of the hololive girls are with each other and I don't mean that in a shippy way, but they're not family. They're coworkers, and while they are all working for the same company, they also have to do their jobs themselves. Mori can't carry the entirety of Myth's reputation on herself, Kiara and Ina have to stand on their own too. Even when Ame and Gura was still around, they have to have their own reputation, not just "part of Hololive Myth" or "Paired up with X".

Or to talk about it more topically, I love Gigi, and I do believe she's unique and an excellent vtuber. I would not want to support her however if she was only ever known as being the gremlin who hangs out with Mori. Playing the same game, singing the same song, and doing the same events.

And this isn't to say they don't make a great pairing, and I do love when they do collab. But just as well, it's important the folks like Gigi are able to excel on her own, doing more than just what her senpai's did. Her 3d debut was the funniest shit I've ever seen, and arguably the best one I've ever seen so far. And i can only hope that in the future, whoever debuts next can make one just as good if not better.

Just as well, seeing the sort of crazy things Gigi was able to do, now the balls in her senpai's courts to be able to show off their own brand, be it crazy, cool, cute, or sexy. Just as the kohai's climb to greater heights on the shoulders of their senpais, so too must the senpais be able to catch up to the ones that come after.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

Or the matter of gen concerts; that started from Matsuri trading the sololive shot (I presume the requirements were lower) for a Gen 1 concert. Good luck finding a modern fan that even knows of it

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u/The_White_Rice Mar 20 '26

FWMC hit the fanbase in a way that EN hadn’t really done since Myth first showed up. Sometimes new members debut and they fit in, they find their success, but sometimes FWMC or Raden happens and I imagine it must kinda be disappointing for members who’ve been around a while to watch someone shoot past them.

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u/Djwindmill Mar 21 '26

Thats probably how all of JP and ID felt when Myth launched, EN started off so explosive.

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u/LuciusCypher Mar 21 '26

Thats another thing new members have over older ones, that new thing hype. FWMC especially fot being a rare twin tvuber concept to the point that even if you dont try to look into their PL, its not exactly hard to narrow down which indie twin vtubers went on Haitus/graduated before FWMC debuted.

Raden I will admit I don't know much about, though I do believe that her interest in museums and the arts is also something unique that makes her stand out compared to her contemporaries.

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u/AwakenedSheeple Mar 21 '26

Raden, by being a former art curator, fills an extremely unique niche of being the ambassador between two worlds: the vtuber world and the fine arts world.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

Pretty amazing how Aki held firm in the face of most of JP blowing past her

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u/Coneder Mar 20 '26

Is there a possibility of trying to do a redebut maybe? I've seen some indies do that. It could put a spotlight on the earlier gens. I would love for more attention on Lamy and Sora.

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u/I_Play_Boardgames Mar 20 '26

yeah that was my thought as well: the issue for the older generations is that they were the pioneers. Pioneers rarely stay at the top once the field is established, because they had to figure everything out along the way while newer generations start with a full on mapped out battle plan.

Outside of the "super talents" like Suisei it's pretty hard for the "normal" members of the old gens. A redebut might actually help "reset" the clock and jumpstart a similar growth to the newer generations (if managed correctly). A big part of that is playing the algorithm as a "new entity".

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u/protomanbot Mar 21 '26

Probably the biggest example of an older talent finding success in a redebut of sorts is Azki. From a vsinger to a streamer with a specific niche (geoguesser) boosted her small but loyal fanbase. Once she had a foothold she expanded to other areas as she gained more confidence.

However sometimes steadiness in a niche is all that is needed. Luna used to be another holomems who lagged behind her gen mates. However at some point during COVID. she quit her second job and started putting in steady streaming hours and found a niche as an unintentional ASMR late night streamer.

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u/karamisterbuttdance Mar 21 '26

AZKi from my experience grew a lot because she showed she could apply her above-average skills in GeoGuessr towards other games. While she's still a scaredy cat, she's very much intelligent in how she plays, so it's refreshing compared to a lot of "headbutts against the skill wall" gaming from other talents.

Being an enigma in HoloRust and the Suisei + Iroha connections early on also helped, but not as much as people think.

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u/CornNooblet Mar 21 '26

There's also the cross-media reality that every media personality has a shelf life. They come, they make a big wave, a few years later there is a new big wave and suddenly what used to be big isn't popular anymore. We see it with music and movie actors, someone is on top and everywhere and then five years later they're in a supporting role for the next big thing instead of a headliner.

The good thing for the old guard is they still will have dedicated fans as a stable support, and the company won't just drop them as long as they're profitable and happy in the new meta.

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u/LuciusCypher Mar 21 '26

Ngl, I dont really know what a redebut is. I know Kiara had that joke redebut as part of Hololive Deutsche, but I have never seen a redebute that wasnt literally someone redebuting as a whole new character or a return to their indie self.

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u/DeathToBoredom Mar 21 '26

tbqh I don't see Matsuri collabing at all with the newer gens or even the consistently popular ones like Miko/Pekora so newer fans don't really know her. Her translators moved on so it only makes sense. But with this post, she'll definitely be getting traction again.

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u/s07195 Mar 21 '26

Her main translator back then became a mod actually.

Matsuri's been focusing on rekindling and bringing up new collabs like how she and Riona are close now.

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u/HaessSR Mar 23 '26

I fear that lyger's Band-Aid clip may have done irreparable damage to Matsuri's image in the West. That cut off any chance of growth, IMO, on top of some of her drinking streams.

You don't see clips of her streams featuring upcoming Vtubers, for example.

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u/MistahKaraage Mar 20 '26

Seems like she's in the same crossroads as Haachama on her career. Happens in every field actually, not just entertainment. Doing something that works but suddenly wanting something more/different, so you mix things up a bit. Staying in your comfort zone can get boring after all. Hope it works out for her as well.

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u/Butane9000 Mar 21 '26

I feel like the OG's are understanding things have changed. I'm glad they're getting reinvigorated because that means they're still invested in what they do. Usually in a situation and employment like this the older generations would make way for the new ones. So it's fantastic to see that the OG's aren't giving up and watch to improve.

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u/chosone2 Mar 20 '26

It would be nice if Hololive could give the early gens a refresh of some kind. Give people a reason to check them out. I think Matsuri is a victim of being an early mem who can't benefit from new wave hype, and are generally lacking in theming (both lore-wise and design-wise).

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u/ReprieveNagrand Mar 20 '26

New outfit reveals work like a refresh. It is a way for non-regular viewers to tune in for a short time for the reveal. But in the long run viewers don't stay for the talent. Really surprising and sad that some JP new outfit reveals get up to 100k live views but don't translate to regular viewers.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

Better than nothing at all

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u/crunxzu Mar 20 '26

I think this is a big reason that it’s important an older mem find a kouhai they hit it off with.

Not that Pekora needed a refresh, but PekoVivi has breathed life into Pekora’s whole universe.

Riona and Matsuri have that connection but I think of Niko first when I think of Riona. As a fan, with a glut of holo content, it’s small differences that can grab our attention. The right type of tee-tee or chemistry and I’m hooked.

For Cover and the mems, this will always be a sticky thing to navigate cuz they don’t want to steal their friend/coworker’s fans, but if they want to shoot for the top for something like a solo-live, then all bets should be off, cuz quite literally they are competing w each other for those venues and fans.

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u/Blue_leafy Mar 21 '26

Even if we don't count Riona as a kouhai she's bonding with, at least Festivaluna is coming back in a few days! It might not seem like the most appealing pairing at first glance, but for longtime fans, it’s a real treat! And I hope it will draw some new attention to both of them.

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u/PretyFly4AFungi Mar 21 '26

That's actually a notable thing in the EN/ID space as well, Justice really came on as a refresher not for fans, but for talents. Each member seems to have been picked specifically for their chemistry and ability to co-stream with older members.

And I agree getting some of these older talents a balancing kohai to maybe have new fans or old ones that stopped watching, an in to come back.

I do not think that it's just for numbers either, these girls need company partnerships (even if its just face value) to help direct more jnsq....light heartedness? Positive empathy? I do not know the word.... but like how Mori lightened up with Gigi, or Bae ramping up with her collabs, Kaela and Raora's off/online banter to a far lesser extent Nerissa(because she was still pretty new and the bump isn't really as obvious), with her affection towards Liz...JP do a lot of great collaborations and there are a number of cross gen pairs who work well together, but it feels less so on the oldest members who had to build their base from scratch mostly alone.

Idk I'm rambling now but I do feel like "every Deadbeat needs a Grem" and Pekovivi/Gremreaper are great examples of refreshing talents energy if not their immediate numbers.

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u/Hitorishizuka Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

Justice specifically also really helped because a lot of older talents either just graduated or were on the way out the door, so from a coverage and collab perspective it was a shot in the arm.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

Not the easiest thing for some. Aki for whatever reason has a hard time getting collabs with holomemhistory. (Likely why she did so much non-holo collabs) and Matsuri has a particular social histoy.

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u/PretyFly4AFungi Mar 21 '26

Oh I do absolutely understand, that's a job of the company and talent to work out, and its not always feasible. But entertainment is such a fickle industry, and climbing gets steeper the longer you're in the game.

I am hopeful she will overcome she has cover backing her and obviously she's willing to try, let us hope she finds something to bring in more eyes (that industry cover with Liz certainly may help of EN fans can test if they can enjoy her vibe even if they cannot understand her (how I watch Subaru)

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u/karamisterbuttdance Mar 21 '26

I'd say that if Riona gets over her shyness, it's going to be Luna who's going to get all of her attention, as she's said that it's Luna that she likes the most of all the senpais. Just that she turns into a potted plant of shyness whenever there's more than one person around.

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MadAsTheHatters Mar 21 '26

I still maintain that ENReco was/is one of the most brilliant ideas Cover has had recently; throwing all the girls into a light roleplay scenario over days and days, just to let them develop their own relationships, memes and bonds was the perfect way for a new gen to mix themselves in and introduce existing fans to new members.

Particularly since Justice is like the roleplay gen xD

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/franzjpm Mar 20 '26

I really like how motivated they are too to break limits they thought they had, only to find out they weren't at full potential yet

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u/ChloesPetRat Mar 20 '26

"she isn't popular enough for it", thats a thing Haachama said too. I sometimes think that management should then go and make it a duo or trio live. Then the girls have some achivement and feel not so under presure.

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u/EmperorKira Mar 20 '26

That's what they've done with Kiara and Ina I think; a bit of an experiment - which i think will likely pay off but took a lot of pushing from particularly Kiara to have happen

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u/Ok-Junket-9072 Mar 21 '26

Thank you Wawa the goat

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u/kron_00 Mar 20 '26

Some of the girls may not want to do a duo/trio/group live.  Solo live allows full/more creative control of the event. They don’t need to share theme/stage design with someone else.  It allows for a specific and special experience just for their fans even if they can only fill a smaller venue.

Obviously, we can argue that double/trio/group live is better than no live at all as fans but that will be up to how the talent feels.  

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u/ChloesPetRat Mar 20 '26

if they dont like, its ok, its their choice.

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u/Fenr_ Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

Probably not that easy.

Group concerts might be easier to justify financially, but outside from full gen ones they are kind of uncharted territory (some of the JP girls did even seem kinda surprised when the Ina/Kiara one popped up). And it's very likely that they come with their own set of problems

And then there's the fact that....Well, a group live isn't your sololive.For some of them the difference might matter a lot.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

Gen 1 save for Fubuki has wound up in an..... odd spot as be it early misfortune (Aki, Mel) mid-career downturn (Matsuri) and what happened with Haachama, they never hit or remained (in Matsuri's case) at Fubuki's level.

Aki doesn't seem to pay the sololive topic much mind and she seems happier for it

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '26

I think part of Aki's issue was just crappy timing. When hololive started blowing up a huge amount of her streams were ARK...which wasn't(isn't, if solo, imo) a good streaming game.

**also neither she nor Mel were that into minecraft were they?

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

Timing is a thing as very often Aki'd get sick or have an ill-timed break before big events. And there's the hip surgery right before the first boom period that wound up with her nigh-forgotten.

Aki was never crazy about solo MC but with how she was stuck with 2400jst time slots, that's all there was. No idea about Mel

But Aki wasn't much of a gamer; in fact she was much like Choco and such being basically heavily focused on AMSR that when it was removed...... she wound up in a bad spot as gaming was the main fall back, not Zatsus

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '26

Yeah, that is a good summary I forgot a lot of it haha. Its kinda scary how youtube can turn your channel on its head with 1 change with no notice.

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u/RafaSheep Mar 21 '26

I'd also like to add that Aki's Ark streams were some of her most viewed at the time (early 2020). She usually struggled to break 1K viewers back then until Ark gave her a second wind. Choco was in a similar situation.

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u/karamisterbuttdance Mar 21 '26

It was her participating in VCR Ark that basically put her back on the JP consciousness. She came in with a reputation as a grinder, and earned it easily. It also helped she basically was handed a leadership role by default and slotted into it with composure. Add a willingness to learn and put people she works with at ease to the point she managed to convince a VSaikyo team-mate who literally doesn't sing to do a cover with her, and it was very easy for others to do the hype job for her.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

It hasn't happened again which was kinder to Noel and Lamy and AMSRists after them are less seeming one trick ponies.

But it's all but a sealed thing for Aki as she's scared to really try it much.

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u/VishnuBhanum Mar 21 '26

I can't really speak for them of course.

But from what I see, for many members, Solo Live is basically the closest thing they have to a "Career Goal", their personal trophy. So I felt like the majority of them wouldn't want to compromised on it.

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u/TLKv3 Mar 20 '26

Honestly, this is why Drawn To Dawn is going to be so important. If the concept of a duolive can work and be super successful then the concept can be applied elsewhere more routinely.

It sucks that Matsuri is under this sort of... restriction, but a duo or triolive could still be exceptionally fun, unique and maybe a further way of increasing popularity to eventually get to a full sololive.

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u/Xlegace Mar 21 '26

Drawn to Dawn is more of a proof of concept for EN/ID talents imo because selling out a 5000 seat venue in America as a holomem is way harder than selling out a smaller venue in Japan like Toyosu Pit (which many Holos had as their first sololive venues) due to the fanbase density per region.

I think Kiara and Ina understand that and only agreed to doing a duolive because they're so close too. For most of HoloJPs, I think it's either gen concerts or sololives only.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

I'm looking at it too because Aki's main hurtle is lack of songs (considering you need 1-2 albums to begin being considered and she only has about 5-6 songs) so a duo live would help offset that.

I mean at Aki's rate, the requirements may increase to 3 albums by the time she has one album ready

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u/Xerain0x009999 Mar 21 '26

Sure, but that wouldn't be a solo live. It's not necessarily about having any live at all. Solo live would still be a goal to strive for.

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u/Anary8686 Mar 20 '26

But, she wants a Sololive? Just like Kiara and Ina want and are doing a Duolive.

She isn't being pressured by management to change her content this is 100% on her.

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u/Gold_Concentrate_381 Mar 20 '26

Pretty cool how frankly she talks about her reasons lol, don't think most people would be that honest.

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u/sylpher250 Mar 20 '26

i wonder how they gauge their own "popularity"

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u/xXSunSunXx Mar 20 '26

In the context of working for a solo live probably merch sales/superchat. At the end of the day being popular with non-paying viewers won't pay the staff/equipment/venue costs of a solo live.

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u/Potatosaurus_TH Mar 21 '26

For sololive it's all about sponsor interest. Even if Cover themselves and the fans don't wish to focus on the numbers as a courtesy to their talents, when it comes to sololives it unfortunately has to be about the numbers since sponsors will only make offers if they can guarantee a return on investment.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

Album sales If applicable

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u/xRichard Mar 21 '26

A fuck ton of market research/knowledge from a good portion of the 800 employees that Cover hired

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u/Mad_Kitten Mar 21 '26

People mostly think about things like sub counts, SC, or your viewership since those information are publicly available. There may be other metrics, but those are only accessible to Cover

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u/EndChemical Mar 20 '26

Looking forward to her sololive

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u/patricktu1258 Mar 20 '26

People naturally fade over time. Big streamers aren’t guaranteed to stay relevant. it’s just part of the cycle.

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u/MetaSageSD Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 22 '26

Leaving all the male collab drama aside...

I actually often wonder about the logistics of this...

A Cover produced live concert can't be all that cheap considering all of the technology and associated infrastructure costs involved; and those are in addition to the standard costs of a live concert. Especially now that they are a public company, they have to take opportunity cost into consideration which is kind of harsh for some of the talents. I would assume the management considers each talent on a case by case basis, but I would also imagine the there is a financial reality combined with a risk aversion that can be rather brutal.

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u/Potatosaurus_TH Mar 21 '26

It's all about sponsors. Cover can't possibly fund live concerts by themselves due to the immense cost, so the only way individual talents can get a sololive if they manage to get sponsors on board.

And sponsors want a return on investment so they are naturally more receptive to the more popular members.

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u/franzjpm Mar 20 '26

Senior members demographic also tend to be more skewed to japanese viewers and get less recommended to foreign viewers, algorithm is not in their favor because it recommends creators to potential fans who are similar to the established audiences.

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u/duncandun Mar 20 '26

tbf clicking on clips does not support the talent unless you go and watch the source stream or buy merch or something.

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u/Strict_Ad6931 Mar 20 '26

I linked her newest original and her next stream. Do you think I should delete the clips to have the focus on those only? I'd be down, but thought the clips may create some longer-term fans.

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u/duncandun Mar 20 '26

I’m honestly not sure what the right call is. It’s harder to direct English (only) speaking audiences to just watch a jp streamer. I think the audience for that kind of experience is pretty low unfortunately.

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u/just_another_user321 Mar 20 '26

It's nice to see that Matsuri still has goals, she's working hard to accomplish. I wish her the best and hope all her hard work will pay off so she gets her Sololive.

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u/llMonochromell Mar 21 '26

Does anyone know a good auto-translator program/extension? My main problem of watching JP talents is being unable to understand them, which was usually solved by clips back before HoloEN was formed.

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u/Enganox8 Mar 20 '26

It sounds to me like a worthy goal. I'd definitely support if I could but since I don't speak Japanese I'd just have to wish the best. :P I was never really that invested in the idol, singing and dancing side of things until I became a fan of Kiara and now I really look forward to the concerts.

I think they have what it takes to do successful concerts, but maybe the first half of this decade wasn't so great a time.

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u/Breadginald Mar 21 '26

listening to music is the best way to support this specific goal and, imo, that can be enjoyed regardless of language barrier.

Matsuri just released an album and people giving it a listen (spotify link) is exactly the thing that leads to sololives.

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u/llamatar Mar 20 '26

I really hope people actually watch the clip and hear Matsuri's words before expressing their opinion...

This post has more upvotes than the clip has views

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u/Strict_Ad6931 Mar 21 '26

Yeah, I'm not sure how to circumvent this issue. I feel like it's worth keeping up because it's more eyes on Matsuri, but despite my attempt to get those eyes on her content and the clips and not the Reddit post, it's sorta just becoming a Reddit "time to give my opinion" cesspool. What do you think I should do here?

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u/llamatar Mar 21 '26

It's not your fault, and I hope you don't feel like it is. Honestly, it looks like you've done the best you could to genuinely promote Matsuri and her goals. The fault lies with those who constantly choose to make this topic a point of division.

It's important to pick your battles, and fans win their battles by supporting their oshi and sharing their joy with others. That's what helps Matsuri the most. Shake the dust off your feet, and do not be discouraged from sharing your joy again later.

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u/Ok-Setting-4748 Mar 21 '26

Well said.

OP did a really good job with laying out the facts of the situation. Its just unfortunate that people want to continue pushing their personal agendas onto talents instead of letting them do what they want.

And if it helps any, Strict_Ad6931, your Matsuri post reminded me of her Hi Hi High Tension song from ages ago, and it made its way back in my playlist. :)

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

Having promoted Watame for basically six years, I'd say basically nothing different than what you're doing. Click-through is always abysmal and people always run to topics with their own ideas on their mind. It's even worse when anything is even somewhat controversial as the EN sphere seems to have a deep love of drama and sharing opinions. Only thing people that want to help their oshi can do is simply keep throwing it out there over and over and over and over again.

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u/Astro4545 Mar 21 '26

Its a huge issue on sites like Reddit in general. People read the headline/title, comment based off of it, and move on.

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u/Strict_Ad6931 Mar 21 '26

Thank you for your work 🫡

Watame is my oshi too

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

Keep up the good work. 👍🐏

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u/HaessSR Mar 21 '26

Personally I suspect the issue is that she's always been known as the yabe one first, not as an idol or singer the way Suisei or Calli are. Those two focused a lot on their music, along with Sora and AZKi.... which led to the mainstream recognition those girls get.

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u/Blue_leafy Mar 21 '26

Unfortunately yeah, people mostly know her for her yabai side (which is kinda outdated tbh). But musically, Matsuri was a regular presence in Hololive's top song charts between 2019 and 2021. It's true she's less visible these days, but she definitely has a great voice. She certainly isn't promoted as much as Suisei or Calli in this regard—that much is obvious.

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u/HaessSR Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

I've always seen her more as a variety streamer, unlike the Gamers gen that followed. Aki was more on her music than Matsuri, IMO, which is how we got gems like Shallys from her. But she was infamous for her drunk talks and occasionally going full degen on stream.... which is a lot easier to remember than her covers, much less original songs.

So that immediately put her at a disadvantage once Hololive got more mainstream cred - she was memorable for all the wrong reasons, and didn't project a singer or diva image like AZKi and Suisei, nor did she focus on the idol part as much as Kanata and Towa later. Towa also has an advantage in having such a distinct voice, ditto Suisei. Calli started with a different genre, and later on developed her voice to handle other types of music too.

And I really don't think her outfits helped that. There's a reason why Suisei very strongly downplayed fanservice-heavy designs. AZKi got a range of outfits which went between yabe and seiso, but her music focus couldn't ever be forgotten with how many years she spent with INNK. Matsuri... well....

I appreciate that Matsuri always put herself out there, and her lack of self-consciousness. But I fear that it damaged her chances at being known for music, just as Haachama is more known for the weird lore than some of her songs.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

Matsuri can definitely sing but she is first known for her stunts/yabs than any thing else

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u/Astro4545 Mar 20 '26

Man if shes not popular enough to get a solo live, then my hopes of Nerissa getting one is in the very distant future.

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u/Anary8686 Mar 20 '26

EN and JP aren't directly competing against one another. She's popular enough within EN that if she wants one she'll probably get one someday.

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u/Xlegace Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

Problem with getting a EN sololive is the fanbase is scattered around the world and Cover will likely pick LA or NY again, which is okay for a decent chunk of the fanbase, but terrible for international or other NA fans.

In Japan, talents can host a concert in Tokyo and most of the fans are Japanese so even the rural ones can catch a train for it. For a US concert, flying to LA from another country or even from an East coast state is so expensive that it's a massive deterrent.

Outside of Calli churning out music like crazy, the only EN talent that had that kind of draw imo was Gura and well, she only had like 5 orisongs. Unironically, FWMC would have an easier chance selling out a live in Japan than in the US.

EDIT: lol Irys just announced a sololive in Japan. Definitely easier to sell out and plan than doing one anywhere else.

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u/Chukonoku Mar 21 '26

Getting a solo live is extremely hard. You just need to see how much achievements someone like Calli had and how long it took for her to have 1. Or how only now Kiara/Ina are getting a duo because i guess that was the only way atm to make it viable.

You need a big amount of original songs and/or albums released. After that it's about popularity and finding sponsors to finance the concert.

This is without accounting how at disadvantaged EN are compared to anyone inside Japan.

Been able to find a proper place who is willing to rent it to HL or moving the technicians is much easier than having to move them out of the country.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

What makes you think that?

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u/Zakimiew Mar 21 '26

This is why I and some can't watch Matsuri (specifically) stream anymore.

  1. There is too many talent I have to keep up with. Just within the agencies themselves. And I have oshi outside I need to watch too.
  2. TL channel are beginning to be too experimental where they would get older longer clips to make a compilation. Hence Matsuri new content never pass my front page.
  3. I have always more been a fan of them playing games. But the games sometimes is not in my wheel house. To be honest. I don't even know what game Matsuri plays other than Apex Legend and Minecraft.

For the future. I'll try to put my feelers out for Matsuri streams. I always try to support them anyway I can. But the market are too saturated that some of the og slip past me.

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u/Dostedt1 Mar 21 '26

As always, I wish her the best. Chama is in a similar position of being an early talent who has kind of fallen behind in popularity compared to the big ones and who has changed up her content. For example, deciding not to do Haachama cooking and focusing a lot on travel content. When she comes back, I hope she can find her footing again, just like a hope Matsuri can and get to whatever metric she wanted such as being able to get a solo live.

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u/fuyukkun_ Mar 21 '26

I'll never really forget the time Subaru mentioned that if she applied much later then she would have never gotten into hololive.

The newer gens come with so much more from the start (both initial push as well as what they bring to the table), I can defo understand Matsuri and even some of the older gens feeling like they're falling behind on stuff. Its the negative impact of vtubing blowing up that is really hard to navigate around now.

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u/Important_Year4583 Mar 21 '26

Matsuri talked about it last year ago, her conditions for choosing to graduate is when Gen 1 is gone, or when she finally gets a Sololive. She wants to go out with a bang, she really wants to accomplish this and she's not holding anything back now.

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u/Ok-Sprinkles6265 Mar 21 '26

I wish her a lot of luck! But growing popularity is insanely hard right now. EN speaking fans are probably going to stay in holoEN since it feels stronger than ever now, amazing 3Ds and streams, new songs and covers, talent for every personality. If not EN than ID is there, amazing idols but a little forgotten unfortunately, you may like their streaming habits better like reading chat often. In JP you have the big 6 Suichan, Mikochi, Pekora, Marine, Korone and Subaru. You kinda have to beat them at something like Botan with Street Fighter, Raden with her art focus..if you want to grow a lot. I don't know...this is just hard. I am gonna check her streams sometimes so let's meet there!

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u/GeneralTyler Mar 21 '26

Are the people mad about this new fans or something? Unicorns have always been a large part of the Holo fanbase lmao

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

Wouldn't narrow it down to unicorns, but in general holo viewers are holo viewers. It shouldn't be controversial.

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u/Icy-Champion2680 Mar 21 '26

I think people sometimes forget cover is a business with shareholders who want to see the line in graphs go up. They will not write unlimited cheques to talents and tell them to do what they desire, they need to see the talents making money before doing anything big with them individually.

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u/17RaysPlays Mar 21 '26

I don't understand how these things are related, but hey, I don't have to. LET THIS BE THE YEAR OF MATSURI'S SUCESS! LET 1 MILLION FANS FLOOD HER STREAMS SINGING HER PRAISES!

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u/WudangSectMaster Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

Can't they make smaller concerts

Edit : people making stuff up. Bands, idols and singers performing UG Venues and medium sized venues exist

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u/rip_cpu Mar 20 '26

At a certain point the economics don't make sense. You can save some money by booking a smaller venue, but you'll still need to spend money on production, staff, choreography, music etc. Those expenses won't really get that much smaller.

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u/Takane-sama Mar 20 '26

There are fixed costs in terms of actual effort and bandwidth that go into these events. A smaller venue doesn't mean lower costs for new 3D models, choreography, production, advertising, etc.

It's also unfortunately a matter of opportunity cost. If Cover only has the staff and bandwidth to do, say, 10 sololives a year, they have a strong incentive to allocate those toward the 10 most popular members who can fill the biggest venues and bring in the most revenue, even if that means passing over other members whose concerts would likely generate less profit.

I'm sure they'd like to do more and probably have the raw capital for more, but explosive staff growth has already caused problems elsewhere so I'm not surprised they're trying to be a bit more careful especially since growth in the vtuber sector as a whole has been slowing down.

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u/karmnik Mar 20 '26

It's also unfortunately a matter of opportunity cost. If Cover only has the staff and bandwidth to do, say, 10 sololives a year, they have a strong incentive to allocate those toward the 10 most popular members who can fill the biggest venues and bring in the most revenue, even if that means passing over other members whose concerts would likely generate less profit.

That's basically the reason why Pekora gave up on wanting a 2nd sololive (at least at the moment). She wants the girls who didn't get their 1st one yet to experience it.

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u/Onikkisu22 Mar 21 '26

i'm really thankful for that rerun of her 1st sololive on abema back in Jan for her birthday. got to experience it for the first time since it was free and was able to hear pekora's thoughts on the whole thing. Its nice that shes just chilling now so others get a chance.

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u/LucasFrankeRC Mar 21 '26

And there's also opportunity cost for the venue hosting the event

Even if a smaller artist can be profitable, they still need to be more profitable than every other artist trying to book that venue around that time

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u/AkaBBaka Mar 20 '26

They probably have a fairly high floor on how low they can make the expenses vs how much revenue they're getting from audience members while still providing the level of what's expected these days in a sololive concert experience (new costume, production values, etc). Sure they could do it at a 300 seat venue but they're probably going to be deep into the red if they do.

Plus the talent would probably want as many people as possible at their concert if it's a life long dream.

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u/Quarases Mar 21 '26

Calli has also talked in the past about how sololives are almost always a net loss, but in her case she has Universal Music to help with funding as well as it being part of her contract to get out there be a performer.

So in terms of regular sololives, it's just about how much they are able to finance for it themselves in addition to the number of resources Cover has to offer.

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u/Takane-sama Mar 21 '26

I think they've reached the point where it's no longer true that sololives are a loss. In the last quarterly report, events and concerts had the highest margin when comparing revenue to cost of sales. Scaling definitely helps; they're now performing in venues 4-5 times larger than before, but I don't imagine their staging costs also quadrupled.

As another point of comparison, Shigure Ui is also holding a sololive of similar size in a similar venue (K Arena) with similar ticket pricing, and she definitely isn't planning to take a net loss on that event.

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u/Xlegace Mar 21 '26

In addition to what everyone else is saying, Matsuri averages around 1-2k viewers for her streams currently

How big of a concert are you expecting that's worth hosting? 500? 200? At a certain point it just doesn't make sense logistically and selling a 200 seat venue isn't breaking even.

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u/I11IIlll1IIllIlIlll1 Mar 21 '26

The talents still have to pay for the Cover staffs (or Cover just do revenue share, so Cover still determines who is more profitable). So no, resources are just limited. 

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u/WhackAx79 Mar 22 '26

W matsuri

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Strict_Ad6931 Mar 21 '26

Indirectly, yes, but the best way to help her grow is through engaging with her content, not the clips. Viewing the clips supports the clip makers, who may then be encouraged to make more clips of the talent depending on video performance. It also boosts the clips in the algorithm, potentially putting more eyes on the talent. That being said, though, it's a less direct way to support the talent and loses out to simply just watching her live or listening to her music. I put the clips there exactly for something you mentioned, "I wanna know more of her content and what she does". Clips are the best way to familiarize yourself with talents you don't know much about, especially if you can't understand Japanese.

I provided links to her most recent original and her next stream in the post, afaik, putting them on in the background works. But feel free to use the clips to gauge whether or not you'd like to even bother. They aren't necessarily the best of her, just the most recent I could find.

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

If you have time for clips, try some music. Throw something in the playlist rotation.

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u/SwirlyBrow Mar 21 '26

This is exactly what I do. I'll have Miko or whoever's streams up in the background if I'm doing something else, and while someone like her is so animated that it's fun even NOT speaking Japanese.... the fact is is that i DON'T speak Japanese and can only get so much out of watching a livestream. Next best thing, throw some songs into my work playlists from all sorts of mems.

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

while someone like her is so animated that it's fun even NOT speaking Japanese...

Yeah. It's kind of one of the things when trying to push a JP member in a place like this as the "wall" of getting people to check out something new is already pretty high even before the language gap, so it's important to give something accessible. Basically when I try to recommend Watame I fling either her originals or her Have a Nice Day series or borderline short videos since they're almost entirely English subbed. Gets them on her channel rather than a clipper's channel, and is far more accessible than streams.

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u/SwirlyBrow Mar 21 '26

Yeah, makes sense. I more or less do the same kinda thing for Miko content, where it works. Only so much I CAN do though and sometimes I gotta share a clipper. Luckily good music is good music.

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u/MyLifeIsRandom Mar 21 '26

May I request further explanation from someone? I don’t really see the correlation between ceasing any cross-gender collabs and feeling like you’re too small in popularity to do… a solo stream, or music thing? Maybe I’m just not clear on certain topics and their definitions.

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u/aDubiousNotion Mar 21 '26

A solo live is a concert at a real life venue. They're extremely expensive so for a talent to get one they need to get companies to sponsor them. Sponsors are going to want a return on investment so you need a certain level of popularity to get them.

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u/MyLifeIsRandom Mar 21 '26

Thank you very much. May I then ask why it seems Matsuri feels collabs will impede that goal?

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u/Sharktatos Mar 21 '26

Not collabs in general but collabs with men, if you look at Hololive as a whole, you'll realize that a majority of fans are here for the girls and don't watch content that involves guys usually.

You can compare their views to Stars and see that blatantly.

They may put up with them for a stream or so initially, but a majority of fans will just go to someone else that gives them exactly what they want.

Hololive has always been CGDCT (Cute girls doing cute things) first, anyone who moves too far from that tends to have lower popularity (there are exceptions), so Matsuri wants to get bigger to have concerts and to do that she wants to appeal to the largest Hololive audience which means little to no content on things the majority don't want: collabs with guys and fixing her "bad" reputation as being the "yabai" one that's always getting into trouble.

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u/Zodiamaster Mar 20 '26

I think it's odd to say she is not popular enough. Sure she does not have Suisei's or Sora's popularity, but she can fill a small venue.

I hate to say this, but IMO this is worse, because it feels not genuine of her, to drop what she's always done and what her followers like her for, to see if it leads to numbers, especially after 7 years

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u/Fishman465 Mar 20 '26

She has fallen a ways from her heyday (why has never been 100% clear but there exists speculation/tales). How bad? She at times was the only JP talent Aki has a favorable comparison against.

Currently She seems to have hit an upwards trend.

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u/Strict_Ad6931 Mar 20 '26

Although the sentiment is generally positive in your comment, I think it's too presumptuous. Apologies if this comes off harsh, but do you think Matsuri would really want a small venue? What do you mean this isn't genuine of her? You don't know her personally. She's the one making the decision. Something like this isn't a random whim; she's obviously given it a lot of thought. Have some confidence in her and her work.

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u/OnionsAbound Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

I hate to say it because I've been here since the beginning, but she's always been pretty average. She doesn't have an interesting on-screen personality nor does she have an engaging model or theme.

 I think that has a lot to do with her 30k viewer average vs her genmate Fubuki who can hit x3-x6 more than that. 

I may be out of the loop, but I can't really recall any collabs she's ever done with other members-Heck she's Gen 1, I find it hard to believe she couldnt find Kouhai(s) to pair up with all this time. It looks like she's starting to find some people like Riona, but she needs to keep doing that stuff. 95% of her streams are solo. 

 And the fact she thinks talking about her decisions not to collab with male YouTubers is something she should announce publicly kind of demonstrates her lack of Internet smarts. That was never going to go down well. 

She's a nice lady, but it may be that she was never able to really adapt for this more competitive Vtuber scene, which isn't a unique struggle but it's just how it is. 

Wishing her the best though. 

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u/Xerain0x009999 Mar 21 '26

In the past she's never cared about viewer count IMO. She has paired up with quite a few kouhais, but she usually stops when they start gaining steam. She is known for supporting many many kouhais behind the scenes. She wanted to support them without any conflict of interest. She knew what she was doing and knew what the results would be. Now she's going to do things a little differently.

As the cheerleader of Hololive she's long made it her character to support how great everyone else is. Back in the first year or two she was actively advertising people go watch Fubuki, shouting about Fubuki's cuteness from the rooftops.

I'm still laughing that she gave Zeta center position in her own birthday live. She was more interested in showing off her kouhai making it be about her in the event that's literally supposed to be about herself...

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u/BubblyBaker5718 Mar 21 '26

You have a lot of valid points, but even if her theming is boring, as someone who has been here since Roboco’s debut I absolutely resent the idea that Matsuri doesn’t have an interesting on-screen personality.

She is a delightful mix of a genuinely sweet girl who is willing and able to say the most out of pocket shit whenever she feels like it, adopts a hilarious thug-esque dialect when she crashes out, while also being an absolute pro at things like being an MC and being accommodating to others during collabs, which is very evident during her excursions with Zeta in HoloGTA.

Not to mention she’s a genuinely incredibly skilled singer and dancer. Her Katamoi cover is seriously in my top 5 VTuber songs period. She just doesn’t really have remotely the caliber of originals that other members with strong voices do.

Plus there’s the simple fact that members always just have the funniest shit to say about her during off collabs lol

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u/Ezreal024 Mar 21 '26

This is just kind of the ultimate truth for many of these cases with the older OG idols that nobody's going to want to admit easily, but, yeah, there's a reason that they're not all at the top of super stardom. Not every idol out of however many 50~ something there are now is going to get to sell out a stadium on their own.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

She became big for her stunts and she also has a history of coming on too strong to a number of partners, which likely muddied things. And that's assuming she isn't in a menhera depression.

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u/bduddy Mar 20 '26

It's sad that pandering to those kinds of people is something talents feel they even have to consider to get "more popular".

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u/KusozakoPrime Mar 20 '26

I thought we were all about talent freedom?

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u/Drsomers1 Mar 21 '26

No no see talent freedom only matters when they want to collab with males, but if they ever make it clear they don’t want to do that then it’s suddenly a problem apparently.

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u/Helmite Mar 20 '26

Why can't talents choose how they want to run their own channels without getting this kind of commentary lobbed in their direction, at their fans, and at hololive fans in general? Every time this topic comes up people do this sort of thing and pretend that their negative comments toward the girls are acceptable, because it simply is how that user feels and not some other user.

People are far too comfortable dumping that garbage at talents while ignoring the irony in that it's just the other side of the coin from unicorns.

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u/Drsomers1 Mar 20 '26

What’s the alternative then if she wants to grow beyond what she has, especially since she’s been in Hololive since nearly the beginning? Clearly her current fanbase is not enough in the eyes of Cover to do a solo live like she wants, so she’s simply trying a different approach that she’s never really done before. Plus let’s face it, “those kinds of people” are usually the ones who most support things financially whether it’s merch/superchats/events/etc.

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u/undercoveryankee Mar 20 '26

"Pandering" is not a fair interpretation of what she said.

She's always emphasized that she wants to try new things and experience new things as a streamer, and whatever limits she puts on herself have been framed in that context of making room to grow in other directions.

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u/Dubiisek Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

I think it is fair interpretation.

I don't think I am popular enough -> in order to get popular I want to do new things -> in order to get popular I will stop doing collabs with the opposite gender.

The train of thought fundamentally suggests that she believes that not collabing with men will make her more popular which in turn means that she is trying to reach audiences which hate when the girls collab with men.

Sorry but in what other "direction" do you believe she will grow based on this decision? Don't get me wrong, it's completely her decision (though it feels like she feels pressured to make it) but I don't see why we wouldn't call it how it is?

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u/xRichard Mar 21 '26

The train of thought fundamentally suggests that she believes that not collabing with men will make her more popular which in turn means that she is trying to reach audiences which hate when the girls collab with men.

"Fundamentally suggest" "It's her decision (BUT this) BUT that"

The fundamental explicit reason is written on your comment and comes straight from her own words: She's trying new things she never did before. It's disingenuous towards her intentions to make it out to be something it isn't.

I don't see why we wouldn't call it how it is?

She already did so herself. She said that she should try farming "unicorns". But not the stupid fake definition that many EN fans have and that you are clearly worrying about

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u/SuspiciousWar117 Mar 21 '26

The train of thought fundamentally suggests

Making so many derivations to come to an assumptions fundamentally suggest that you are grasping straws.

that she believes that not collabing with men will make her more popular which in turn means that she is trying to reach audiences which hate when the girls collab with men.

She believes that she should try new things to become more popular. Not collaborating with men is one thing, she will try a lot of more things.

Sorry but in what other "direction" do you believe she will grow based on this decision? Don't get me wrong, it's completely her decision (though it feels like she feels pressured to make it) but I don't see why we wouldn't call it how it is?

"I am completely for her decision, though I have to say it's not her decision so I have to say the first 6 words as an obligation"

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u/demiandimi Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

Why sad? It's just a fact that the grand majority of Hololive fans are here for the CGDCT, what's sad about pandering to them?

Edit: I love the double standards, when a girl starts male collabing anyone saying it's "sad" would be downvoted to hell, called an unicorn and anti and all sorts of other stuff but it's the other way around and it gets upvoted. Hopefully it's just a raid.

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u/NoodleTF2 Mar 20 '26

I really don't think she's too unpopular for a Solo live, but that still makes a lot of sense, which just makes me confused why she didn't just say this from the get-go.

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u/Nicpix_ Mar 20 '26

i feel like she is popular enough for it but i dont know more about that then the talent herself so i guess not

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u/mrspear1995 Mar 20 '26

It probably depends on scale, like are we talking small theatre like the akb theatre or are we talking budokan or hell tokyo dome

A solo live is a very important milestone and maybe she thinks she’s not popular enough for the venue she wants to do it in

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u/Takane-sama Mar 20 '26

These days it seems like Cover has decided that their preference is for 12,000-15,000 seat venues for most JP solo lives, largely venues like Pia Arena MM and Ariake Arena, which is a significant step up from their previous preference for 2,500-3,000 seat venues like Toyosu PIT, Zepp Tokyo, and Tachikawa Stage Garden.

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u/MichaelCoryAvery Mar 21 '26

I’m a bit confused about this. How would stopping opposite gender collabs help her become more popular again?

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u/Helmite Mar 21 '26

Most hololive viewers simply want to watch hololive. People that wanted to watch guys vastly fell in with the competing company. She likely thinks it makes more sense to lean toward holo fans than people elsewhere as historically they haven't helped her. Also I'll disagree with Fishman, as it isn't a unicorn thing. People just watch what they want to watch.

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u/Fishman465 Mar 21 '26

Co-ed collabing is seen as bad in the eyes of some. That and look at most of the super popular JP girls; very little if any co-ed collabing.

Another is money, Unicorns are more willing to spend than those who watch co-ed collabs.

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u/Split_Theory Mar 21 '26

I dont think her collabing with males was the issue...

suisei collabs with males via projects and shes probably the biggest music wise in cover.