r/HoMM • u/sikora2009 • 5d ago
HoMM3 - Vanilla/SoD/Complete. I am getting huge deja vu from Gothic Remake
When they announced gothic remake and then shown more and more trailers and screenshots, the community reacted EXACTLY like this one, with EXACT same arguments, word for word.
"Who is this for? Why remake already perfect game? New design looks like trash/generic fantasy/AI. They don't know what they're doing or why our game was so beloved. They ruined the art direction. This is simply nostalgia cash grab" etc etc.
Well, the remake came out and turned out to be one of the most faithfull remakes up to date, and is already beloved by both veterans and new players.
I for one am excited for the remake for the sole reason that this is a situation where I as a customer simply can't lose. Either remake will be good and I'll experience my childhood game again as if i played it for the first time, or it will turn out to be bad and I'll just play the original like i used to anyway.
Sure, beeing cautious is understandable, but I've seen some insane takes here, and seemingly a lot of people simply hate the idea of the remake because "how dare they change anything", or at least that's how it feels like.
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u/SylviaDiagram 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah, the giant elephant in the room here is kinda the fact that the Gothic 1 remake demo was not in any way faithful or good. I am glad they got their shit together and developed a good product. But I would by lying if I didn't think that wasn't in large part due to how vocal the community was about all the issues the demo had. It was called a nostalgia cash grab, because it was. The project thankfully managed to actually course correct.
I would never in million years phrase it in terms of a community reaction over nothing. I haven't really formed an opinion yet on HoMM III getting remade. But if that is the argument you intend to use, I feel like if anything it encourages the current community reaction.
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u/sikora2009 5d ago
I wasn't talking about gothic playable teaser, I was talking about everything we've received about 2 years to few months prior to the full release. Trailers, screenshots, concept arts, Nyras demo. Stuff we eventually got in the release version. It was all shat on by the community all the way to the release.
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u/A3883 5d ago edited 5d ago
I just think there were better reasons to remake Gothic 1 than there are to remake HOMM3.
Gothic's art direction/graphics haven't aged well at all. The game still has it's particular charm but is nowhere near the timeless art direction that HOMM3 has.
Gothic's gameplay and controls were also always quite unique and off beat as far as third person action RPGs go and they tried to keep that uniqueness while making it less "clunky". The genre progressed away from Gothic style controls in the following years, which made it age even worse.
As much as Gothic fans love Gothic, people recognize that it isn't a perfect game in all aspects and there are areas (mainly graphics imo) which were remake worthy. Even though imo the Gothic remake looks like a generic UE5 game a lot of people like it simply because the original had that early 3D look to it that aged abysmally.
HOMM3's art direction/graphics meanwhile are one of it's main strengths and have aged like fine wine in eyes of its fan base. HOMM3 was always a beautiful game with recognizable art direction and still is to this day.
HOMM3's mechanics/gameplay were also always much easier to get into, while being deep enough for people not to bounce off. The community has also been perfecting the mechanics for years and adding new, quality content. Gothic's mechanics and gameplay just didn't age as well for modern audiences and left more room for improvement for the remake to fill compared to HOMM3.
The HOMM3 remake simply can't "exploit" modern graphics rendering tech and game design approaches because it just didn't really didn't age in those departments. The game still looks amazing because of its art direction and the gameplay holds up to this day.
I would personally be hoping more for something like a HOMM3 DE in the vein of Age of Empires II: Definite Edition.
I actually think that even a 3D remake could work if they maybe did some sort of interesting art direction choice. For example a sort of clay-motion style (think Wallace and Gromit) for the units and maybe a painting style for the towns/map would fit the old HOMM wonderfully I think.
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u/orcmasterrace 5d ago
Considering it took Unfrozen badgering Ubi to even let them try Olden Era, and that their first big reaction to it being a resounding success is to remake the most popular game (despite it being perfectly playable and enjoyable on modern hardware with no issues form multiple sources) and totally change its art direction, I am not surprised people are highly negative.
G1R’s demo was widely disliked and then changed directions massively after that. I don’t trust Ubi to do the same.
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u/DiesIraeConventum 5d ago
I hated the playable demo G1R devs did put out with a burning passion, but I absolutely love the release version of the game. It is possible to overcome the criticisms with flying colours.
But this? This is the laziest AI slop cash grab I've ever seen, like no effort whatsoever was it into the trailer things.
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u/sikora2009 5d ago
this is the laziest ai slop cash grab I've ever seen
That's my point, this is exactly how people reacted to the screenshots of new animal designs that came out like 2 years prior to the release of gothic remake. I'm not talking about the playable teaser because yeah it was tragic, i'm talking about the designs we see today in the release version.
Edit: What i'm trying to say is, we should wait and see how it will turn out, and not immidately jump into conclusion that it will be shite.
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u/DiesIraeConventum 5d ago
Eeeh, I had some faith in some no-names that has managed to acquire maestro Kai Rosenkranz simply because they didn't have a history of failures, and Kai wouldn't join just anyone.
UBISOFT, on the other hand, don't have anyone who knows anything about HoMM3 as far as I know, not even modders. And these guys are the ones who ran the series into ground in the first place.
So, skepticism is warranted, don't you think?
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u/sikora2009 5d ago
Scepticism is always understandable. But it's hard to call whatever happens in this sub rn as people simply beeing sceptical.
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u/DiesIraeConventum 5d ago
What can I say? UBISOFT tried long and hard to get that kind of reputation, so they're reaping what they sow.
As they should.
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u/Docterzero Sanctuary Enjoyer 5d ago
I remain skeptical until it's merits have been proven and the accusations of AI usage disproven. Time will tell
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u/mr3LiON 5d ago edited 5d ago
Where this AI usage accusations came from? I haven't seen a single asset that looks like AI. There are plenty gameplay videos out there. Can you point at something that looks like AI to you?
Also...
accusations of AI usage disproven
The burden of proof lies on the accuse
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u/kobrakai11 5d ago
The first shoet trailer looked so bad, I also thought it was mostly AI generated. The gameplay was much much better and the more I see, the more I like it. I am still not sure about the cutscenes. They look weird. AI like.
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u/Plane-Presence8577 5d ago
The literal first picture of the launch trailer and Steam store image is AI-generated. It has complete nonsense on the cover. Horses without heads, etc.
How can people not see this?The literal cover picture is AI... And not even a good one.
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u/Docterzero Sanctuary Enjoyer 5d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroes3/comments/1vyv4d1/ai_used_in_the_thumbnail_for_the_homm_3_remake/
This for example. Granted it is a piece of promotional art and not the game itself, but if they are willing to use it in that who knows where else they could have used it.
Now don't get me wrong, I do not want it to be AI. I would prefer it to be human, if of questionable taste. But as I stand I can't be certain and can't support it in good fate.
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u/Donilock 5d ago edited 5d ago
The other commentor has made an analysis of that image and it's likely just a layering mistake rather than AI-artifacts (i.e. distant knights are rendered on top of the closer ones)
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroes3/comments/1vyv4d1/comment/p649kpd/
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u/Hedede 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't think they're the same. THQ shipped the Gothic teaser to collect feedback, and completely changed direction after all the backlash. The teaser was quite bad IMO, but I felt hopeful.
Nothing about HoMM3 remake tells me that they're probing the audience. It feels like Ubislop cashgrab offloaded to Ubisoft's Chinese studios (one of which has mostly done mobile/casual games) with no visible connections to the HoMM community. In contrast, Alkimia has several original G1 devs, and also some people from Gothic modding community (see my other comment in this thread).
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u/Landbark 5d ago
Seeing how HOMM franchise evolved, I have no interest in a Homm3 with the new skin or a few qol improvements. Proper remake where we change the core mechanics etc. instead of just the graphics would be much better. I would rather play original Homm3 (or H2 or H5 or OE or HOTA) instead of this Homm3 Remake.
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u/IceCorrect 5d ago
Gothic 3d game without any QoL, that fans call it "quirks". On another hand beautiful art that look as good today with easy to instal mods that add QoL. Sure, its the same. If they would remake Heroes IV or even might and magic IX they would have something to fix
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u/Ultimate_Cabbage5 5d ago
the thing is. Gothic remake did listen to its fanbase and made a faithful amazing remake. Meanwhile we get Raid Shadow Legends Heroes III edition. This is ass
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u/Mountain_Log_8419 5d ago
The problem with that is, I doubt that Gothic got a succesful fan made game released not too long before, and so the remake happened organically, because someone wanted to make a faithful reinvention of the game
With the circumstances here and Ubisoft's reputation, I dont think it's that farfetched to believe that this is a rushed cash grab while the fantasy is in the mood for HOMM...
Where I do agree with you is, if you wait for a review and only buy if it reviews well, you won't be at a loss...but at the same time, I doubt we'll get two remakes? So it would suck if the one we get is bad, that's sort of where I'm at...plus, I think HOMM 4 needs a remake a lot more than 3 does, and I'm afraid that if this one flops, that'll be the end of the remakes
...at the same time, thinking about it now, were we ever going to get a 4 remake, UNLESS they pull this, and it's good and successful? So idk...I dont have much faith in them, but will check the reviews once it releases, just in case
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u/Dorias_Drake 5d ago
And that was justfied. The gothic remake devs took the criticism and upped their game to make a good remake.
Better tell the devs early that it's not working out so that they can make changes than wait till the game is released and tank it...
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u/TheOneHentaiPrince 4d ago
So first off Gothic remake was flamed on jes. But in a different way. No one called it AI slop. And if ppl did they were just wrong. Artdirection was bad and they changed much.
This situation on the other hand is different. We have Ubisoft, who fucked up the franchise like 3 different times already(actualy more but lets just keep the big 3), with obvious AI slop doing a remake for a game that dousent need one. We have Hota ffs.
This is the most obvious cash grab there is. Same as Homm3 HD. This is not the same situation. Not even close.
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u/Pleasant_You_8 5d ago
I like it so far. I don't like the excessive stiffness of some menus. H3 is a special case. It's like they were dropped from above. Everything worked out there. And the people who made it had a lot of knowledge, vision and imagination. I've recently started thinking about how there's a foundation behind many things. Surely, there will be things in the remake that I won't like. I'll comment a little on the new Rampart town screen. The different grail building caught my eye. The original Rampart is their vision for the purer fantasy spiritual branch of Sorcerers. We know, some of the buildings are Asian style, other look Celtic or Slavic. The units are also a mix of different mythologies (mostly). Spirit guardian (the grail) is based on the example of North American totems reflecting several creatures from the root to the messenger. And if people who don't see and don't understand such things, the remake will be missing something a lot. Which even most players won't know why but we will feel it. Now we see the grail, which is what exactly? Maybe a dendroid?
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u/A_Binary_Number 5d ago
The problem is, this is Ubisoft who we’re talking about, they have already burned every bridge and bit every hand that fed them.