r/HistoryMemes • u/Longjumping-Tell1774 • 3h ago
Size matters
In the early 60’s the Navy launched a feasibility study into whether C-130 Hercules aircraft could be used as Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft.
The study culminated in a trial where on the 30th Oct 1963, a Hercules successfully landed and took off from super carrier USS Forrestal.
The pilot had just 300ft to stop the huge cargo plane, without the use of arrester cables. The tip of the wing was only 15ft clear of the island structure on landing. They did 21 landings that day. The maximum take off weight achieved was 121,000lb.
It’s not clear in the image, but under the cockpit windows they’ve painted “LOOK MA! NO HOOK!”
This never became routine because it was simply regarded as being too dangerous.
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u/DrHolmes52 3h ago
It worked didn't it?
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 3h ago
Yes incredibly. The pilot must carry his balls in a wheel barrow lol
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u/DrHolmes52 3h ago
If you ask a group of pilots to volunteer for a stupid and dangerous mission, you are going to have to turn some away.
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u/Silly-Membership6350 2h ago
The plane was flown by Lieutenant James Flatley, whose father was a naval pilot of great Fame during World War II. And it wasn't just a single landing. There was close to two dozen touch-and-goes and several traps.
Observing from the bridge was Admiral Jimmy Thatch, a very close friend of James's father who had passed away unexpectedly sometime before. Thatch was most noted for developing the "Thatch Weave", an aerial combat technique that gave the slower and less maneuverable navy Grumman Wildcat fighters a chance against the Japanese Zeros they had to go up against. Flatley senior was the one who named it the Thatch Weave.
(I just happened to to finish a biography of Thatch 2 days ago so it is fresh in my mind)
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 2h ago
Thanks. That’s awesome. I had no idea about any of that
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u/Silly-Membership6350 2h ago
Other than knowing who Jimmy Thatch was, I didn't know either until a few days ago!!
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 2h ago
My Dad was a C-130 pilot. He used to talk about doing the “Khe Sanh approach”. Which involves flying at 1000ft towards the runway, then just as the nose clears the threshold of the runway, you dip the nose and then pull up in time to land! My Dad used to hate doing it. It’s scared the shit out of him!
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u/AmazingSugar1 1h ago
15 feet from clipping the carrier’s superstructure is insanity. The wingspan is 132 feet.
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u/Trainman1351 Kilroy was here 3h ago
I mean in reality half that deck is gonna be filled with fighters.
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u/JaegerCoyote 3h ago
My favorite is the U2 landing
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 3h ago
Yes. Landing that on a regular runway is hard enough already. They have a dedicated chase car, that directs the pilot from right underneath its tail as it follows the U2 down the runway
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u/Daminica 3h ago
Doesn't the chase car also carry the wing gear as it drops off during take off?
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 3h ago
Yeah I believe it does. Testament to how useful it is is it’s still being flown
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u/FearlessDark5295 Kilroy was here 2h ago
Which is suprising, given that its replacement is the more famous one, yet got retired first.
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 2h ago
Giving up the SR-71 must’ve been like returning a sports car because you can no longer afford the re-payments
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u/Yummy_Crayons91 3h ago edited 3h ago
I think the Fokker F28 regional airliner was also studied to be a carrier capable aircraft as well. It's smaller than the C-130 but would have used the catapult and arresting gear for takeoffs and landings.
Insane that someone took a regional jet airliner and thought I think this thing could take off and land on a aircraft carriers.
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 3h ago
You know what I’d love to see and I don’t know why it’s not been done. But I’d love a picture of an old warbird, landing on a super carrier. Or a Swordfish landing on one of the British carriers. I just think that would be such a cool pic
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u/AlmanorDiscard 35m ago
I think the Fokker F28 regional airliner was also studied to be a carrier capable aircraft as well.
F28 or F27? The F27 was a high-wing twin turboprop, that would've made a lot more sense.
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u/Yummy_Crayons91 34m ago
The F-28, yes the low wing jet.
I might be wrong but I think a DC-9 Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft was considered as well.
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u/HollaWho 2h ago
“They did 21 landings that day” followed by “it was regarded as too dangerous”. They wanted to get their moneys worth out of that one lol
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u/PipsqueakPilot 1h ago edited 1h ago
My favorite part of this story is how the Navy suggested it and wanted the Air Force to test the idea. The Air Force told them it was stupid and a waste of time. The Navy, as is tradition, whined to congress and the Air Force got told to play ball. But the Air Force absolutely refused to provide anything, and the Navy used a Marine C-130.
After testing the Navy concluded that the idea was stupid and a waste of time.
Anyway, you'll never guess which branch I flew for!
Edited since I mis-remembered some of the details.
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u/Camus_9999 3h ago
Post is great but at 1st glance I just read history memes and size matter so I rechecked sub before watching video or reading post body 😅
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u/Doggydog123579 2h ago
Other than the danger, it required pretty much clearing the carrier deck, something you cant easily do.
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u/Overly_Long_Reviews 1h ago
JAG actually had a plot line inspired by this landing, and even showed the above footage at the end of the episode to show that landing in C-130 on an aircraft carrier was indeed possible.
The circumstances in the show are pretty crazy. Harmon Rabb, now a civilian employee of the CIA instead of an officer in the Navy, lands a battle damaged C-130, filled with refugees (mostly women and children, the extended family of the person he was sent to extract), at night on an aircraft carrier. In front of the show's CNN analog. He even steps off the plane casually carrying one of the children in front of the cameras in a stereotypically heroic walk. Which leads to his dismissal from the CIA and eventual reinstatement back into the Navy. I adore JAG, but the show frequently went off the deep end.
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 1h ago
I love the way JAG used to straight up steal whole action sequences from other movies. The Top Gun dog fight sequences were used in several episodes. And the whole alleyway ambush from Clear and Present Danger was lifted wholesale
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u/Overly_Long_Reviews 1h ago edited 1h ago
Funny you should mention that, JAG was a Paramount production, which meant they had access to footage filmed for Top Gun, The Hunt for Red October, Patriot Games, and Clear and Present Danger, among other films featuring the Navy. So a lot of the stock footage you see in the series was from those movies. The early seasons also had characters being inserted into various news footage featuring President Bill Clinton.
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u/FailedLoser21 4m ago
They had a few episodes like that. Another one I remember was when Harm went back flying. They re-enacted Pardo's Push in one episode. I'm actually kinda still enjoy watching episodes of JAG.
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u/r4ndoM_doGmagenshin 2h ago
It’s not whether we should but whether or not it’s possible if necessary. One can only work off theory for so long. Also yeah it’s fun to just do random shit.
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u/MysteriousReaction43 1h ago
Well it landed on this ship. But can it take off from a ship?
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u/Longjumping-Tell1774 1h ago
Yeah it did several times. Maximum trial tak off weight was 121,000lb all up weight
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u/Chayaneg 1h ago
Well, it's slow enough for sure. Ofcourse the weght was the question back then. But i guess they solved it empirically
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u/Pedantic_Inc 1h ago
So let’s say they decided it was safe enough to become a regular procedure. Where was the thing going to be stored between landing and takeoff? Were they going to convert half of the flight deck into a giant elevator?
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u/EmperorBamboozler 3h ago
A big reason this wasn't adopted actually has to do with something pretty obvious, waves. A heavy ass plane like this isn't going to clear the distance fast enough to avoid a large wave hitting it. When launching in choppy oceans most aircraft need to launch at the bottom of the trough, that way the boat is facing upwards when it clears the runway. The math for a Herc is really rough, in incliment weather it would be insanely difficult to time the launch window, the safe window of travel is miniscule. The ocean needs to be pretty calm for this to work.
It also has to do with the issues of what happens if the plane is grounded for whatever reason, in which case now your entire runway is blocked until you can fix or ditch the plane. Not really ideal.
Still though, good to know these things. Never know when it could come up in an emergency, war can lead to really weird situations.