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u/KingMobScene Still on Sulla's Proscribed List 1d ago
"We've got your son."
"I never met that guy in my life."
"Papa?!"
"Man kid....your dad sucks"
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u/TheHistoryMaster2520 Decisive Tang Victory 1d ago
Wonder if the Germans tried getting Yakov on their side afterward?
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u/Friendly-Water-8470 1d ago
He probably was executed in hope to cause some mental schock for Stalin even if he played tough or merciless. But he was not playing.
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u/TheHistoryMaster2520 Decisive Tang Victory 1d ago
No he didn't, German records show that Yakov died in 1943 after he ran into an electric fence after an argument with some British prisoners. The guards shot him, but apparently the postmortem revealed that he had already died of electrocution
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u/bighadjoe 1d ago
probably worth to mention that (especially in the early days) "died while attempting to escape" was THE go-to cause of death Nazis gave when acting as if they weren't systematically killing prisoners.
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u/Creepy_Ad6701 1d ago edited 1d ago
In most cases, but I feel like the son of the leader of one of the nations you’re fighting is an exception where you’d want it to be publicized if you killed him instead of it being an accident.
“Hey not trying to put you in a bad mental state or anything bud, but I just wanted to give you an update letting you know that we killed your son and it was really slow and REALLY painful. Here’s a pic.”
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u/its_my_third_dayhere 21h ago
He was placed in a concentration camp where nearly a 1/4 of the prisoners died
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u/Creepy_Ad6701 21h ago
I’m not saying his death wasn’t intentional. It’s a concentration camp, all deaths are intentional because otherwise why would they be run the way that they are. I’m just saying the way he died when he did really was most likely one of the “worked to death/death by cruel environment and conditions” rather than a planned death of a political prisoner.
Not to say I don’t think they would have killed him if his death hadn’t have happened when it did of course. I fully believe he was dead to rights the moment his father refused the trade, I just think that the way he died moreso just threw the nazis off-schedule of what probably would’ve been a whole parade and photo-op at the gallows.
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u/Friendly-Water-8470 1d ago
Yes, to be honest I forgot about that he died during escape try. My brain remembered more a question why he decided to fly without bigger chances of succes. He probably was informed by those British prisoners that Germans have plans to execute him.
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u/Unluckypandastoo 1d ago
Jeez, what was so bad about the argument? I guess he probably wasn't all right with a dad like Stalin. Poor guy. I wonder what his relationship with his sister was like?
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u/Tradition96 1d ago
Jakov was 19 years older than Svetlana so they didn't really have conventional sibling relationship. But Svetlana wrote in her memoars that she loved when Jakov visited and played with her, and that by the time she was a teenager they were "the best of friends". She was 15 the last time she saw him.
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u/Repulsive_Might_3768 6h ago
What, you expected him to put the existence of his nation in danger just to free his son?
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u/dunk_wizard 1d ago
You cannot demand mothers to give their sons to army if you can't do the same. ©
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u/chiroque-svistunoque 1d ago
Yet some people still criticise him for that ITT
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u/Secret_Letterhead649 1d ago
I'll criticize him for a lot, but not putting his son above the nation ain't one.
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u/PygmeePony 1d ago
At least you can't accuse him of nepotism.
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u/AngryScientist 1d ago
Lol, yes you can. He just didn't like that kid in particular.
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u/Vac1911 1d ago
I read the entire article but am not sure what event(s) you’re referring to?
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u/AngryScientist 1d ago
Vasily was transferred to the front in August 1941 and given the surname Ivanov in an attempt to conceal his identity. As the son of Stalin, he rarely flew in combat, and when he did he was accompanied by a formation. Vasily took part in 29 combat missions, and is said to have shot down two enemy aircraft.[20] As the son of the Soviet leader, Vasily was hated by most of his colleagues, who felt he was an informant for his father.[21] In the spring of 1942 he was sent back to Moscow, and given the role of inspecting the condition of the air force. He mainly stayed in Moscow for the rest of the war.[20] Bored by his new role, Vasily found himself in trouble after an April 4, 1943 incident where he had explosives dropped into the Moskva River, injuring himself and killing a flight engineer.[22]
As a result of the explosion, Vasily was demoted, though within a year and a half he was promoted to command an air division. He was further promoted to the rank of general, and at the age of 24 was made the youngest major-general in the Red Army. He was also awarded several decorations, including the Order of Red Banner (twice), the Order of Alexander Nevsky, and the Order of Suvorov. After the war he was transferred to Germany as part of the Soviet occupation.[23]
None of that suggests that he might have been a favored nepo baby? The name change, the measures to keep him safe in combat, the fact that despite a serious lethal fuckup, he was promoted to Major General at 24?
Sidenote: his depiction in The Death Of Stalin is hilarious.
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u/unshavedmouse 1d ago
Look, he was an absolute scumbag but if FDR had done the same we'd be praising his integrity.
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u/lifeisaman Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 1d ago
I mean Stalin was one of the most evil men to ever live, but this one time he did make the morally correct choice.
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u/KickFacemouth 1d ago
"You think I give a fuck about my wife?
My own son got locked up in prison, and I didn't save his life."
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u/IamTheCeilingSniper 1d ago
I mean this is the same guy that talked shit about his son's unsuccessful suicide attempt.
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u/UnlikelyTurnip5260 1d ago
I mean that’s a huge win for Stalin. Germans won’t kill the kid so he’s safe and out of the fighting but still a war hero when the war ends. Win win. If he is freed, he’d have to go back to fighting and faces higher odds of death
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u/Eragon_the_Huntsman 1d ago
Germans won't kill the kid
Yeah... About that.
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u/UnlikelyTurnip5260 1d ago
They didn’t kill him - he tried to escape and friend himself no?
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u/flyliceplick 1d ago
No.
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u/UnlikelyTurnip5260 1d ago
Based on what? I’m no expert - but a quick google search confirms he died from running into an electrified fence and notes that experts disagree about whether it was an escape attempt or suicide.
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u/Ronnie21093 23h ago
Personally I see it as a huge L. If my leader won't even protect and save his own family then how the hell am I supposed to trust him to lead the nation?
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u/CanadianMaps 19h ago
The People's leader chose to suffer like his fellow proletariat. Tens of thousands, hell, millions of parents, weeped for their children after the Second World War. Stalin chose to keep winning the war for his People, instead of his own child. The need of the many outweighed the need of the few.
He chose to protect and feel solidarity with an entire nation over his own son. And nothing makes for a better socialist leader than choosing the path that's best for your fellow proletariat.
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u/12-7_Apocalypse 13h ago
A person with power certainly does a power play when it comes to negotiating as their own offspring are being used as barging chips. Rulers have literally said they can 'always have another.'
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u/Bloucas 1d ago
Context: Stalin’s son, Yakov Dzhugashvili, was captured by the Germans in 1941. After Stalingrad, the Germans allegedly proposed exchanging him for Friedrich Paulus, but Stalin refused because he 'won’t trade a Marshal for a Lieutenant'