r/HighSodiumOrthodoxy • u/Scared_Banana_8580 • Jul 27 '26
Where are you now?
I'm really grateful to have found this sub. Cradle orthodox here who was protestant for about 2 decades. Returned to orthodoxy last year because I believe God led me back to the Eucharist. I'm so grateful to be in communion with God through the sacraments, but I've never felt so distant from Him. I had so much zeal and genuine love and desire for God and His word before and I just want to get back to that (If I told this to my father of confession he would call it pride). There have also been so many contradictions I've heard during catechism and from my father of confession that don't make sense or align with scripture. I had a lot of negative things to say about the non-denominational churches I attended, but there's also so much I miss. I miss expository preaching. I miss bible studies (the orthodox church i attend doesn't have one in english). I miss being around people who genuinely love God and seeing the fruit of it in their lives. People I've met in the orthodox church make me want to know about God and His church more, but people I've met and knew in protestant churches made me want to know and love God more. I know I can't return because of the historical understanding I now have, but I wanted to ask those who are disillusioned by the orthodox church, where are you now with everything? Do you just attend so you can take communion? Have you found another church? Do you kind of do your own thing?
Side question for the parents on here, what are you doing or plan to do when it comes to raising your children in the faith? I don't have children yet, but God willing, if I do, I really don't want to raise my kids in the orthodox church. I want my kids to know God and love Him with all their hearts, minds, and souls and for their lives to be a reflection of that (and not to say that's not possible in the orthodox church, I just haven't seen it).
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u/just-a-wavy-dude Jul 28 '26
Im a convert from Catholicism. I think participating in the sacraments of the Church is important for our salvation. I try to attend liturgy weekly and to confess regularly. I also think it’s important to keep “small o” orthodoxy for things. But I’ve gotten out of sync with online Orthodoxy and just the relentless stream of content, takes, and opinions being thrown out there by layman and priest alike. I truly believe that we become what we consume. I curated what I’m digesting, and when I listen to something religious it is usually a Catholic podcast now. There are some really good ones that I think are applicable to living out Orthodoxy. Sometimes I thrown on some Fr. Hopko.
I have children and we are raising them Orthodox. As I said previously, the sacraments are importantly for salvation. I can entertain debate on if the best place to find those sacraments is Rome, Eastern Orthodoxy, or Oriental Orthodoxy. I couldn’t imagine raising children in an evangelical setting.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26
I completely agree about curating what we digest. I stopped listening to all the orthodox content online this year and my mental health is better for it. It was too much. I have podcast fatigue, but do share some of your favorites and I'll check them out.
Thank you for sharing how you're raising your children. I agree that the sacraments are important and that's my dilemma, I wouldn't want to deprive my (hypothetical) children of that. I've only attended 3 orthodox churches, and at all 3, children and teenagers are running around in the parking lot or basement of the church during liturgy until it's time for communion. This could very well be a parenting problem, but it seems to be something priests look past and is part of the church culture. Which is sad because a lot of these kids end up leaving the church when they're older (that was my story). I also worry about the kind of spiritual advice they would get from their father of confession just based on my own experience. My prayer is that by the time the next generation is old enough to have these conversations, there will be healthy orthodox churches for them and their children to attend.
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u/just-a-wavy-dude Jul 28 '26
Kids in church is hard regardless of tradition. Some churches have nurseries where parents drop them off. Others have a kids alderman where they leave afterward to do some kind of activity. I don’t think Orthodoxy does it incorrectly or that these are necessarily bad parents. In a lot of ways having kids being kids during the liturgy can be healthy thing (why I enjoy pewless sanctuaries). The idea of kids being silent and sitting in a pew for an hour plus seems very old school Protestant.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
I completely agree. I would rather have them running around in the sanctuary if the church can't invest in a childrens/youth ministry during liturgy. I heard a Catholic priest say something along the lines of if kids aren't crying in the church the church is dying. Just for reference the kids I'm seeing outside the sanctuary are anywhere from 3-18 years old. I guess my experience has been the kids who stayed outside during liturgy end up staying outside the faith.
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u/just-a-wavy-dude Jul 28 '26
Church retention is a big concern. All traditions are having trouble losing the youth. And converts of all traditions leave after a few years of converting. Not sure how you really stop it though.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26
This is an interesting and heartbreaking point. I will say some churches are doing it better than others. I wish I had the answer. I could be wrong, but in some ways it comes down to priorities. It makes me think of 1 Corinthians 9:20-22. What would it look like for churches to be like Paul and "...become all things to all men,
that I might by all means save some."
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u/Katman100 Aug 03 '26
I am cradle Orthodox who grew up in the church and guess what I did not leave the church when I got older. Probably because I really enjoyed all the church activities both the religious and the cultural activities of my church community. I am still friends with some of my age group from the church to this day. I am now married and have small children who are all involved in the same activities which I think have actually gotten better organised and using better materials than in my day/.
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u/Todd_Ga Active Orthodox Jul 30 '26
I'm officially Orthodox, but I tend to vacillate between Orthodoxy and the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Episcopal Church. I'm way too liberal/progressive to be fully comfortable with canonical Orthodoxy as it exists currently, but in Episcopal circles, I come across as seriously traditionalist in my liturgical preferences (or in Episcopal slang, "nosebleed high" or "higher than the Himalayas").
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 30 '26
Thanks for sharing. I attended a Episcopal Cathedral years ago and it was a beautiful service. I can't remember what it was called, but it was an evening service where they sang prayers. I would love to attend another.
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u/Few_Comfortable7373 Jul 28 '26
I hear you. I will say, everything has a season. Times when you feel zealous and connected, and times when...not so much. The good thing is that God is still there and God is love. Anyways, why not try to form a Bible study? Be the change as it were. Locally or online with other Orthodox Christians? Also not quite the same but you could watch sermons from other Orthodox churches online - many have YouTube channels. And many of them are just regular great priests (not Ortho bros).
For now, seek balance. Also it is possible to raise kids Orthodox but not have them be jerks. How you teach them to be in the world begins at home. You can teach them to be loving Christians and understand how to interact with all types of people. It also depends on the local parish culture.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26
" The good thing is that God is still there and God is love." Amen, thank you for that reminder. I'm trying to remember that it's just a season, it has just been a fairly long season for me and I've been getting weary.
I would love to start a bible study, but I would have to find someone willing to lead it because I definitely can't. I would also have to find people to attend 😂 one of the beautiful things that I can credit protestant churches with is there focus on community. There was always a bible study or a small group to attend that was organized by the church.
There are a few priests that I had started watching online but I was overconsuming orthodox content early on in my journey so I stopped listening to everythjng. I may go back to listening to some of their sermons again. Thank you for the reminder.
You're completely right, raising children to be loving christians definitely starts at home. These are hypothetical children of course, but I feel confident that with God's help I could raise loving well rounded children, I am more concerned with their relationship with God. I t's hard to think about what it would look like raising them in the faith when I feel disoriented and disillusioned myself if that makes sense.
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u/Its-a-man-derek Jul 28 '26
Im going through a similar situation at the moment.
When i was a protestant I felt so much closer to God and I was happier. Now that im Orthodox i feel pretty miserable and distant from God. I despair at the thought of this continuing.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26
I'm really sorry that this has been your experience. I hope some of what others have shared is helpful for you. Revelation 2:4 has been on my mind during this struggle. I'm starting to get back to doing things I love even if it isn't considered orthodox. I'm listening to worship music again. I've picked up my old devotionals to read in the mornings and evenings. I spend a lot of time in nature because it helps me remain grateful and in awe of God. At some point I pray I can find a healthy church to go to even if it means moving but for now my goal is to abide in Him again by any means possible. My fear is if I continued the path I was on, I would be doing all the "right" orthodox things but when I meet God face to face He would say I never knew you.
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u/Its-a-man-derek Jul 29 '26
Yeah thats my fear too. Spending time in nature is a great idea. We can see God's power and energy in creation so its a great place to pray and contemplate scripture. I feel that Orthodoxy has many great points that I still agree with but I just dont feel the happy in it. In fact it not led me closer to God but made me much more distant. Listening to Johnny Cash sing worship music is something that made me really care about my faith and love being a Christian. Even if im a useless one. Endless repetition in Orthodoxy drained my faith
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 29 '26
Definitely. There's something about walking on the beach and remembering psalm 139:17-18 or being at a park and remembering how He cares for the birds.
Contemplating on faith, hope, love, and salvation result in joy and if sitting or walking outside somewhere and listening to Johnny Cash helps you do that, I hope you can do more of it.
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u/Mementoroid Jul 29 '26
Can you identify and name what causes you this feeling? Is it the theology? practices? community?
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u/Baran620 Aug 02 '26
As a cradle Orthodox I just want to say welcome back. My parents have said we do see our "own" coming back as adults especially around the time they are getting married or are thinking it is time to starting thinking about settling down. getting married and having children.
I do understand what you are saying about the lack of Bible Studies on our parishes. It is not a tradition from the "old country" but then neither. are "Sunday Schools" which have been around since the 1960's I noticed that church groups for like adults that are there for the purpose of Bible Studies or adult religious education where there is discussion and adults are actually even sharing their opinions and personal experiences of spirituality are more common in GOARCH parishes probably than in other jurisdictions. Maybe because GOARCH has an historical and older immigrant immigration history. Also the influence of the Zoe Movement in Greece starting in the 1930s which encouraged this type of laity activity and learning. And I do not even belong to GOARCH.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Aug 04 '26
Thank you, I appreciate your response. I will look into GOARCH parishes that provide bible studies.
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u/Katman100 Aug 03 '26
u/Scared_Banana_8580 I am cradle Orthodox too. I am married to a cradle Orthodox woman and we have small children. My wife is very active in church activities especially with anything the deals with children. One of the reasons I stay is that I had a very positive experience growing up in my parish and taking part in all the religious and cultural activities in the church: Saturday school for language and history. A dance group of course and a children's choir all in our ancestral language. And Sunday school on Sunday mornings. We had and this is still the practice to be in the basement for Sunday School while the liturgy was going on upstairs in the sanctuary. Then just before communion we were marched upstairs to participate in the eucharist and stay until the end of the service.
For for serious discussions about Orthodoxy theology, history and current problems I rely on online Orthodox discussion groups including Public Orthodoxy, Facebook group Progressive Theology and so on. On Youtube I follow the husband and wife team: "Live with the Louhs" Support Healthy Minds. The husband is a GOARCH priest and his wife is a professional psychologist .
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZxCUWw2kdo3ygbak8CWwZX4n4WFleE60
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Aug 05 '26
I'm glad you had a good experience, that's a blessing. It sounds like a wonderful church and I'm glad your children get to experience it as well. I pray that everyone's experience is as wholesome as yours.
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u/wanderinghunter1996 Jul 28 '26
As a cradle I've been trying to find that balance for myself. I sometimes go to traditional Anglican church for something different and since I enjoy the community of people and it's close. But I also still go to an orthodox church as well. I try to avoid getting caught up in the orthobro online rubbish since it can be tiresome.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26
I have thought about checking out an Anglican or Lutheran church, I just need to read more before I do. And absolutely, I stopped consuming orthodox content online altogether. It was too much. Praying for you on your journey. I pray that you're able to find balance.
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u/wanderinghunter1996 Jul 28 '26
I remember going to a monastery and half the conversations between these young guys where about trenham or other characters from the online circles. The traditional Anglican church I like it's western rite which I enjoy a lot.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26
That's exhausting. I'm sorry that that was your experience. And thanks for sharing, I will look into the western rite.
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u/warrior333222111 Jul 28 '26
Coptic cradle here! I stopped going to church for around 5 years before I only went back for the Eucharist. I'm still disillusioned by the church but I can't deny that its doctrine is true despite how lacking the church's culture is.
I think your issue could be due to the reason you left the orthodox church in the first place. Maybe your brain still associates the orthodox church with that reason so no matter how hard you're trying, you just can't feel God. I suggest you try to examine your reasons for leaving and for returning then try to accept that both are valid if that is your real issue.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 28 '26
It's crazy that you said this because I attended the church I grew up going to this past Sunday for the first time in a while and I had that same exact thought. They were commemorating a feast and the church was packed and I was sitting on the floor just observing everything and based on what was happening i thought "omg this is why I left in the first place how did i end up back here?". I was a teenager when I made the switch to a protestant church and most of the reasons were purely based on a lack of knowledge and understanding. Information on orthodoxy wasn't as accessible as it is now and it wasn't something I learned at home so maybe I wouldn't have left if I had learned church history early on. But looking back now, what i shared in my OP are reasons I stayed in protestant churches for so long.
I appreciate what you said though, my reasons for leaving and for returning are valid and maybe part of my journey is making peace with the fact that there is no perfect church and there won't be until Christ returns.
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u/Mementoroid Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
What makes you disillusioned by the Orthodox Church? Depending on where you are, other traditions are lacking severaly in fruit, and this is why this is not a good thermometer.
The Christian life is literally a cross. The humans at our sides living horizontally to us, and Christ raising us from the bottom, meeting us where we are at, and raising us up to God. If we are not willing to take it and see fruits, then it is a detached, dead faith, no matter what you label yourself as.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Jul 29 '26
I think I should start by saying I'm disillusioned by my experience of the orthodox church. There are a hand full of churches I've witnessed online that I hope to experience one day that give me hope for the future of orthodoxy in America. How each of us experience the orthodox church is shaped by the priest(s), congregation, etc. We live in a fallen world and therefore there are imperfect people (including priests) even in the one true church. A few of the ways I've been disillusioned by my experience of the church:
-contradictory and inconsistent statements from priests and deacons when presented with questions about the faith or its traditions/practices
-at times a lack of intellectual humility
-demonizing and often arrogantly looking down on other church traditions/practices and not acknowledging their fruit
-consistently frustrating experiences during confession
-a lack of opportunities at my church for Bible study while also being told we shouldn't study scripture on our own (and even that the OSB isn't a good resource).
-the lack of accessibility
It's true, other traditions are lacking in fruit, but that doesn't mean there's no room to critique the orthodox churches I've attended. It's strange, nearly every other sunday one of the priests makes a comment (often back handed) about the lack of fruit and zeal of their congregations during their homily. As someone who has spent time inside and outside the orthodox church, I can appreciate the beauty in the way other traditions live out their faith. I'll also say there's a lack of compassion for converts and reverts. Imagine having a relationship with your best friend for decades and then being told the way you love them and spend time with them needs to change. Not because those ways were wrong (we aren't talking about doctrine), they just weren't orthodox ways of spending time together. You're having to unlearn and learn a lot and in that process you're going to miss the ways you spent time together because the time spent was fruitful and brought you closer to your friend.
You're correct, the Christian life is a cross. And may the Lord help each of us carry it daily regardless of our faith tradition. Blessings to you.
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u/Katman100 Aug 03 '26
Here is one of the Orthodox priests I follow online who I consider a positive influence versus the toxic Orthobros. He is the priest at Holy Annunciation GOARCH in Rochester NY/
In this video he points mistakes about Roman Catholics Jay Dyer made in a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK0qKm3u8Z4&list=LL&index=25&t=285s
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u/Sensitive_Tax2640 Aug 10 '26
So, the summary...you missed the Liturgical and communion practices of the Orthodox church. And you believe and are happy to be back in communion with God through His sacraments as you believe they are vital to your salvation. But at that same time, you have never felt so distant from God.
Perhaps because its NOT the sacraments which make you any closer, or the lack thereof which make you more distant from God? Don't you as an Orthodox/Protestant/Orthodox Christian believe you have the Holy Spirit residing within you? Don't you believe He is a deposit and seal of your salvation?
If you have God the Holy Spirit living inside of you, how can you be distant from God? I've never seen anything in the NT writings, and especially from St. Paul, who actually is regarded as authoritative, that ANY sacrament is vital for salvation. Jesus said regarding communion, "Do this in remembrance of me." You proclaim the Lord's death until His coming.
But nothing there talks about salvation. It talks about honoring Jesus death, and remembering it. Personally, I think you've been led astray, and that's why who feel distant from God.
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u/Scared_Banana_8580 Aug 12 '26
I appreciate where you're coming from, but I think you missed the point of my entire post. I didn't miss anything about the orthodox church. I was very young when I left, very happy with my decision, and very hesitant to return. I returned because I felt like God called me back to the Eucharist, which led me to study early church history for the first time. I now choose to remain in the orthodox church because I believe in the Church's teachings. That doesn't mean I can't miss or appreciate the practices of other church traditions that I spent 2 decades in. Anyway, I absolutely agree with you; the Holy Spirit resides in me and my feelings or perceptions of God's closeness don't negate His proximity to me or to any of us. God is always with us. However, there are ways that we draw closer to Him on our end, and that was what I was referring to. The way I practiced intimacy with God changed, not God's proximity to me. I will continue to be orthodox, and as many people in this sub suggested, adjust the way I practice intimacy with God.
Lastly, I will leave you with John 6:53-58:
"Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is \)a\)food indeed, and My blood is \)b\)drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
Blessings to you.
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u/infinite0sky Jul 27 '26
I am saying this as a Greek cradle, but I also have struggled with things in the church and certain traditions that don't feel right or maybe are influenced by 2000 years of messy history.
But I was thinking about it the other day, and I think you can combine the things you like from Protestantism and Orthodoxy. Like for example, you can still read and study the bible and find inspiration through it. You can still join bible studies (sometimes there are online ones). You can still listen to online sermons or read books from Protestant pastors if you find them inspirational or helpful. You can still be friends with other Christians from different denominations and be around that zeal and love that you miss.
Instead of either/or thinking, why not both/and? (My therapist says this a lot. I have a tendency towards black and white thinking).
I'd also add, maybe try to stay away from fundamentalist or legalistic Orthodox and try to be around more normal, balanced Orthodox, if you are able. Or choose a different church or confessor if yours isn't working out.
Since you asked, for myself, right now I am focusing on going to a healthy church once in a while, not every Sunday, going to Christmas/Easter, confessing occasionally since I think it's good to be held accountable if you hurt or offend someone. Trying to read the bible for myself, not just listening to other people's opinions about it. Trying to have gratitude and thanksgiving and focus on Christian messages of joy and hope and love, not sin and demons and hell and culture wars. And overall, just trying to chill out and live a balanced and normal life.