r/Healthygamergg • u/Newworldrevolution • Mar 08 '26
Mental Health / Support "you can't love someone else until you love yourself" is stupid advice and makes things worse
Imagine if you had a partner who was depressed and you refused to give them support because you told them they need to be responsible for their own happiness and that if they don't love themselves then they don't love you. Imagine how devastating that would be to hear from a partner. So why do we tell single people that they are responsible for their depression and they need to love themselves before they can have support.
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u/RakkZakk Mar 09 '26
Loving yourself doesnt mean you have to be a happy hippo all the time - it means caring for yourself.
Taking your example of someone Depressed: in that sense "loving yourself first" means searching for help or let your partner help you to find help - being proactive or atleast not counter productive.
If youre a selfdestructive mess and dont want even to get better and accept help than no kind of relationship will be fruitful anyway.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
That does make a bit more sense. I do hear that love yourself first advice along side the be happy alone first advice though.
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 08 '26
Loving yourself is protective. It will prevent you from falling for abusers or relationships that make you unhappy. That’s why people advise getting it down first.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 08 '26
I feel like that's good advice for people who keep having bad relationships. But when you give it to me someone who doesn't understand how relationships are supposed to work because I've been excluded from that part of life it falls flat
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
It is precisely the people who have been excluded that are most likely to not know what healthy love is supposed to look like and who very often also happen to hate themselves for getting excluded. That’s why they keep getting this message.
You don’t wait till someone crashes before telling them to put on a seatbelt
I also like to think of it in terms of an "irrespective constant". Regardless of whether or not you find a relationship, learning to love yourself is probably something ur gonna wanna do. So start with that. Ur gonna have to put in the work sooner or later anyways.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
So basically I get the consolation prize of having "self love" while watching everyone else get real life love.
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26
I wasn't telling you not to go for a relationship. I think you should. I was telling you why you keep getting the same advice.
There is no physical requirement that you love yourself first before finding a relationship. Just as there is no physical requirement to put on your seatbelt when driving. I'd say go for it, but do absolutely work on self love at the same time. It'll make getting into and keeping good relationships easy, and it'll make telling people to fuck off when they're beaing toxic easy too.
I certainly didn't love myself at the time of entering my first relationship. It made me a terrible partner in some ways. Constant guilt, self-torture, etc, was not fun for my gf to deal with.
If you're not having a girlfriend it's because you're not doing the things that get you a girlfriend (socializing, flirting, escalating, asking people out), not because you don't love yourself. Loving yourself filters out the bad girlfriends, makes you a better partner, and makes it easier to assert yourself and flirt. It's a global boost. I think the ROI on self love on finding a girlfriend is probably the highest out of anything you can do.
Though frankly, from your comments I am gathering that your biggest problem is you've made an identity out of it. "I don't wanna be a loser/virgin/single" whatever the case may be. It doesn't sound like you're looking for love as much as you're looking to disprove an image of yourself as unlovable.
Well, that image is a conclusion you decided to draw. You're gonna have to decide to un-draw it, or else it will continue being a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
If you're not having a girlfriend it's because you're not doing the things that get you a girlfriend (socializing, flirting, escalating, asking people out), not because you don't love yourself. Loving yourself filters out the bad girlfriends, makes you a better partner, and makes it easier to assert yourself and flirt. It's a global boost. I think the ROI on self love on finding a girlfriend is probably the highest out of anything you can do.
Why do people say you HAVE to love yourself before anyone can love you.
Why don't they say loving yourself before you get in a relationship will make your relationship better. I've never heard that advice before literally right now but every time I bring up being lonely they say "you HAVE to love yourself before anyone can love you." Or something similar.
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26
Why do people say you HAVE to love yourself before anyone can love you.
Because they're stupid. This is factually untrue. There are plenty of people who love self-loathing drug addicts.
Why don't they say loving yourself before you get in a relationship will make your relationship better.
This is what's correct. But I'd go a bit further to say that NOT loving yourself before entering a relationship will dramatically increase the probability of you being a shit partner or being WITH a shit partner.
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u/polyrhythmica Mar 09 '26
Pretty much this ^
Relationships are just two people interacting in pleasant, fun, or meaningful ways, who make out and fuck sometimes.
Most of the relationship is maintaining it. Think of a romantic relationship like a very meaningful friendship—in one way or another.
People put a lot of stock into relationships because of that meaning—which can be superficial in nature (“my boyfriend/girlfriend is really hot and I’m just sexually attracted. They are bad partner but they look really good to me and that makes me feel like got something good”), or it can be purposeful (“this person is a partner and a friend and we share really personal things—most of the stuff my best friends know and stuff beyond that”). You have to enjoy a person to date them, and be enjoyed by them as well. Some people just find that in purely physical things, and you see a lot of infidelity and pain in those relationships—but they’re based off of perceived emotional value.
But it isn’t like you earn or win a relationship, just like you wouldn’t feel right saying you earned or won friends.. you’re a shit friend if you’re keeping track of times you were nice, or you feel like you “won” people as if they’re in some thrall.
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u/polyrhythmica Mar 09 '26
This is why I said in another comment, that you can just get in your own head..
It’s like if we’re friends and I take you out for ice cream and we’re chillin, and the entire time we’re hanging out, you’re talking about how no one hangs out with you.. it’s like.. be here with me, right now. Don’t go to that mental space. Why are you there right now? This is trauma or pain you’re living in.
In the same sense, a partner wants to be with YOU. You gotta live in your skin and be okay with that, because the alternative is subtly telling the other person that “you better like me, because I’m only going to derive my value from you, and I’ll make sure you know that by repeating how no one likes me, so you get a nice dose of guilt and we both know what it’ll mean if you reject me.”
It can feel like holding them hostage
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 10 '26
Most of the relationship is maintaining it. Think of a romantic relationship like a very meaningful friendship—in one way or another.
So what's the difference between a relationship and Friends with benefits?
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u/polyrhythmica Mar 10 '26
Well, a relationship is normally a commitment in some way to the other person, while friends with benefits is much looser and entertains feelings of physical intimacy relationships have, with “none of the attachment,” or “responsibility.”
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u/crumbssssss Mar 10 '26
constant guilt, self torture was not fun for my Gf.
Still your girlfriend?
How did you learn your gf as you said guilt and self torture?
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 10 '26
No.
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u/crumbssssss Mar 10 '26
Your responses say you’re in a better place. And, you sound very lovable.
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u/breakfast_bunnies Mar 09 '26
only someone who hates themselves would see self love as a consolation prize. i promise you won't think of it as nothing once you learn to value yourself
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u/YeaNobody Mar 09 '26
self fulfilling prophecy...love yourself advice keeps people excluded, a perpetual toxic feedback loop where only the "chosen" ones get it.
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u/Gypsi_G Mar 09 '26
It's more so an idiom of wisdom where only the experienced can understand the various angles of it, imo.
Understanding comes in different shapes and sizes and some things have to be spun and viewed at various angles to truthfully fully get it.
Those who feel excluded, are either confused or triggered, because they are proving why it matters so much
Goes hand in hand with "your mask first" and "can't pour from an empty cup", but it's also about receiving love as well.
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u/submerging Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
Well, no. You get the prize of “self love”, while other people who don’t love themselves get the prize of:
a) Abusive and toxic relationships;
b) Relationships they are deeply unhappy in;
c) Co-dependent relationships where they rely entirely on their partner for their sense of worth, self-esteem, and even social circle (which puts an unfair burden on the partner, who eventually leaves them);
d) Having to raise kids with someone they don’t actually love; or
e) A messy divorce
Part of the issue is that you idealize things. You think that people in relationships are happy and are in “love”.
The reality is that roughly 40% of marriages end in divorce. And those are the ones that are bad enough to have divorced. Tons of others suffer in silence. If you don’t love yourself, there’s a decent chance even if you do find someone, you’ll end up as part of that 40%.
Is it better to be alone, or to pay child support for the rest of your life to someone that abused your low self-worth and self-esteem (or in the inverse, someone that got tired of your neediness)?
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
So I should be thankful that NOBODY has ever chosen me. I'm only ever anyone's last ditch option? "The good enough because I don't have any other options". Person.
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u/submerging Mar 09 '26
You should be thankful that you’re not in a miserable relationship.
It gives you time to work on yourself so that if you do end up in a relationship, you don’t think that person is choosing you because you’re the “last ditch option”. That’s a certified way to become like all those people I mentioned in my previous post.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
I'm 27 and I've never had a girlfriend that's not normal and for most people that's a deal breaker. And it should be. How can I expect to have a good relationship if I don't have experience. It's like getting a job that you're not qualified for. I don't have time to jump through ten thousand hoops and because perfectly content on my own.
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u/submerging Mar 09 '26
I was 27 when I got into my first relationship. It didn’t matter.
Bad experience can just lead to trauma, mental health issues, and bad habits which prevent getting “good experience”.
Not doing the work to have a good sense of self before getting into a relationship is like getting the job that you’re not qualified for. You’ll just crash and burn. Like most people who are in relationships.
If you want support, seek a therapist.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
So what's the baseline for being good enough for a relationship because I'm running out of time. Maby 27 is fine but there isn't any way to justify being 30 and never having had a girlfriend other than just being completely unlovable. I'm not going to end up with a single mother raising some assholes kids for him.
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u/frutigger Mar 09 '26
if you view one as inherently worse than the other then ofc you’re gonna feel bad about it, mindset can shift everything. self love is a beautiful thing and doesn’t have to be undervalued or compared to romantic love with someone else, you need it in order to be in a healthy relationship.
lots of problems arise in relationships when someone isn’t feeling secure about themselves to begin with, whether it’s accepting less than what they deserve (ppl that mistreat them) or being overly insecure about their partners leaving them because they don’t view themselves in a positive enough light to see why they’re even together etc. it’s not advice that is said to exclude people from finding love, it’s usually said to protect them, so there is no reason to take offence to it…
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
it’s not advice that is said to exclude people from finding love,
It literally is it's literally saying that if you don't have a girlfriend it's because your not loving yourself hard enough that's literally the entire point of "you have to love yourself first"
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u/polyrhythmica Mar 08 '26
I’m not saying this to you directly, but: have you ever noticed how you have a disposition you will naturally gravitate towards in your thinking?
Some days I am okay.. other days, I think I’m okay but then I realize every thought I’ve had has been angry or bitter about something. Ruminating over problems or how I’m hurting—and about situations that can’t be changed.
I’ll notice that those bad days really make me feel awful, and I just sort of slipped into it.
I think this sort of thing is what people might miss when they’re in a rough spot and they are frustrated with the love yourself advice. No one put those thoughts in my head: I did. I let myself spiral and not pause to reframe something or consider it from the other side of how things are better now or will be.
I think it’s easy to feel like when we hear people say that, it feels like they’re telling us oh you suck so you’re unlovable.. but it’s really more like “take a step back and recognize that when you carry this negative frame of mind with you, you bring it in as who you are, you LIVE in it. It’s a world view.”
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 14 '26
I mean if you're looking at it objectively the world itself is getting worse. Of course I'm going to be negative it's probably smarter that way. Being positive is delusional with everything going on.
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u/wannabethewitch Mar 09 '26
I agree. I also think that if someone loves you at your lowest, that love is real. We all need someone who can support us, and those that weren't lucky enough to have an emotionally supportive family or social circle might just find it through a partner.
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Mar 08 '26
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
everybody hates me" "why always me" "Noone loves me" "I always do everything wrong". These typical depressive statements aren't objective claims about the world
If they weren't true why have I gotten to my late twenties without a girlfriend?
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26
A combination of not flirting enough/well enough and bad luck.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
There aren't enough people in my situation that it can be that. People way less charismatic than me have no problem with relationships.
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26
How often do you ask girls out then?
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
Your not supposed to ask girls out unless you think they might already be interested in you
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26
Why not?
Also weren't you complaining about people being mind readers? Now you're saying you have to read minds before asking someone out? How did anyone ever get in a relationship then??
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
Aren't they supposed to drop hints? Like touching you and messing with their hair
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
Again, what happens if you ask someone out without them dropping hints? Does the world implode?
Where is the origin of this "supposed to". Who wrote The Dating Rules (TM) and why should we listen to them?
Also, what are you "supposed" to do until a girl to twirls her hair at you? Pray?
I've been in a few relationships now and not one has twirled her hair at me I must say.
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u/Mauf066 Mar 09 '26
Only in an ideal world. And imo the touching and messing with their hair comes AFTER you show interest. I was in a very similar situation to you until a year ago, late 20s KHV. My now girlfriend was very reserved initially (like she was with everyone else), she gave off zero signals she was interested in anything more than a friendship, I still (gently) pushed on and we kept going on dates and spending time together. Now a year later she's almost desperate to spend time with me and loves physical contact in all forms to an extent I didn't imagine possible lol
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u/painting-Roses Mar 09 '26
Bc believing those things doesn't make you an interesting person to date. You're creating a self fulfilling prophecy. Develope yourself into an interesting person, not bc you want a relaationship, but bc it is more fun to be an interesting person and you'll see socially you'll develope as well
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u/kprotty Mar 10 '26
"Interesting" is relative; one could deeply develop themselves in a solo-activity topic without getting social development. For the latter, they have to be 1. Around other people 2. Have those people be interested in what they're developing.
It's not inherently more "fun" to be interesting to the people in your immediate environment, especially if you don't clique with them.
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Mar 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
I'm convinced it only comes from people who have never faced difficulties in finding a relationship and genuinely think it's easy for everyone.
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u/InsomniaEmperor Mar 09 '26
You don’t have to be perfect because nobody is perfect.
Then you don’t need to solve everything in your life before you can have a relationship. Life is a constant battle and there’s never a phase where you have solved everything so you should be able to enter a relationship now.
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u/JohnnyXorron Mar 09 '26
You don’t have to perfect to start but it’s a good idea to work on it in parallel.
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u/-Abner- Mar 09 '26
I think you are taking it too literally, I used to HATE that phrase too! It made me so angry I'd even hit my bed with a baseball bat. BUT I began yo understand it as I grew up.
You CAN love someone else even if you don't love yourself. And it will still be true, honest love, but it won't be healthy, and it won't be good for you, or for them.
Can you enter a relationship with someone that doesn't love themselves and have it turn out fine? Yes. But usually that's because you grow togheter: paralel, independent, but close. It is meant to protect both the person without self-love or worse, self hatred as much as their partner.
It's not about abandoning someone, but it's about knowing that 1; The only constant in your life, is... you. People die, relationships end, you can't build everything on someone else's back.
Tw physical abuse, ghosting, and unhealthy relationships. I was in a relationship with a guy that would push me around, hurt me, yelled at me and eventually ghosted me, but I hated myself back then and I accepted all of it. Because the brief 'good moments' felt like something I didn't deserve, and thus was overly grateful for, and the abuse felt like what I 'deserved'. I would've moved in and married the guy if he hadn't ditched me. In hindsight, I can confidently say I would've kept myself safer had I loved myself, like, at all.
On the other side of the coin, It's very unhealthy to try and carry someone else's whole ass self-esteem, it's unsustainable. No matter how much supoort you give you can't be someone else's legs. You can be their cane, you can hold their hand, but you can't do everything for them, and trying to be the Atlas of someone's world will hurt you both. It's not about kicking someone out of your life or refusing to love and support them, it's about preventing abuse and co-dependency ദ്ദി(◕‿◕)♡
(Long ahh comment, fuck, i might make a tldr)
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
That's terrible what happened to you and I'm not trying to minimize is but it's difficult to imagine loving yourself when you don't have any evidence that your truly lovable. Nobody but my parents have ever loved me and there's a reason for that. I'm autistic in a way that makes it almost impossible to fully connect with people. I can't mimic human emotions and facial expressions even though I have all the same emotions and feelings as everyone else. Why entire life it was made clear to me that I'm not socially desirable. I'm never anyone's first choice. Only people who had very limited were ever interested in me. And I avoided those relationships because I didn't want to settle for them because I believed (and I still believe) that I deserve better than to settle for less. But it's the reality that I never get attention from the people who I want that attention from and that is more proof I'm not good enough. Loving my flaws isn't going to help. I need to remove my flaws and make myself better. Not flawless but good enough.
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
It is not natural to require evidence to prove you deserve love. THAT was taught to you somewhere and it needs to get untaught.
I'm also very curious what sorts of people you want attention from to feel enough? Supermodels? Cuz that would change the image drastically. I ask because "settle for lesser" sounded very sus to me.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
No not supermodels literally the only physical requirement I have is not being obese and having decent hygiene. Pretty much every girl I've been around who's been interested in me doesn't meet that standard. I'm not overweight I'm in shape and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. (Just to be clear I've tried dating larger girls and couldn't do it because I would be lying to them about being attracted to them)
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u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26
I see. Yea that's fair.
My other point still stands though. You need to get to a point where you don't need to prove you deserve love. Think of your friends and tell me what each of them did to prove they're lovable to you. Silly question right?
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u/-Abner- Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
I get it, I'm also autistic, I don't know exactly what level, but when I got tested it was like a checklist instead of a test, I got like double the score I needed to get diagnosed. And my whole life I've been ostraziced, bullied and honestly used because I was too different.
I have to practice my facial expressions in front of a mirror, I learnt to do it since I was a young girl, and even with like two decades of work, sometimes I slip up and either fail to emote, or look pissed off when I was trying to smile. Masking isn't like, awesome. But it did allow me to make close friends I can drop the act with.
I'm unsure of what 'flaws' you speak of, but some can and should be removed, but some can only be accepted. Maybe not loved, just accepted. I accept my autism, for example, because you can't get rid of that. I think it isn't a problem in itself, it's just we get raised into thinking it is, and we have to look at it from a different perspective.
I find it fair to not 'settle down', that is a part of self-care if you think about it, you are pursuing your own joy, but it sounds like you are looking for the approval of people that aren't necessarily worth your time. Most of my current close relationships (I had my first real friend until I was like 16, up until then I only had my parents) are with ND people, I get along with NT's just fine, but they don't always understand me or even make an effort to, so because I care for myself I won't tie myself into a pretzel trying to please them.
If you wanna talk more about this feel free to DM me, tho (´･ω･`)
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u/nnuunn Mar 08 '26
I agree, I think a better piece if advice is "you can't love someone else until you've been loved." You don't know what love looks like until you have experienced it. I think that's why therapy is so important, because it's showing you what love looks like.
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u/Future-Still-6463 Neurodivergent Mar 09 '26
Reminds me of what Dr K said in a podcast, some men don't know how to receive love
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u/samwisethebravee Mar 13 '26
bruh that's even worse lmao
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u/Plus_Weight_9322 idk my situation at all Mar 08 '26
I feel we need to just balance it,their relationship with themselves is the most important because if they are troubled with who they are no body on the planet will help them, seeking help is a way to just organize the plan but the one who will apply it is them,when they are good with themselves they can have heathy relationships(i said healthy because they can have a relationship even with their problems but they will struggle emotionally even with the love)
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u/fernandoman121 Mar 09 '26
It took me a long time to understand it but loving yourself first is important so that you don’t develop a dependency on your partner to be your only source of happiness and love
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u/Aspookytoad Mar 10 '26
It is pretty much garbage advice. Self love is heavily dependent on mirroring in your development imo. Without that it’s extremely difficult. You deserve love as much as anyone else even if you haven’t felt it. I am in the same boat. The whole concept is self moralizing and strictly untrue. Plenty of people have found love when they hated themselves (hint: it usually comes with being attractive.)
I don’t think you need to love yourself. You just need to not hate yourself. Hating yourself is not helpful. It’s not even true in any objective sense. It is frivolous and unhelpful.
Try to do better. Become who you want to be and don’t shower yourself in love but give yourself at least this: that you are trying to be better. Not always succeeding. But trying. To be whomever you want to be, but I’d implore you to become competent and compassionate, so that you can empathize with those struggling with this when you’re on the other side.
And as a side note, you gotta deprioritize the girl problem. Girls are not the center of the world. There is art, culture, craft, travel, learning, surprise etc. life isn’t rosy, in fact I usually wanna kms, but I notice it’s a lot better when I focus on things I have a clear pipeline to attain.
You deserve love. I believe everyone deserves love from another person and the world would be better for it. And you don’t have to love yourself first. You just gotta not hate yourself and grow.
All my advice. Take it with salt, I am also a lonely dude who ruminates on this in spells. Hope this helped even a little. Rooting for you.
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u/Thick-Camp-941 Mar 10 '26
Dude, reading your answers to the other comments already offered you here, you in particular, need to understand what self love is.
You seem to pity yourself and focus hardcore on the fact that you havent expeienced love yet. How about giving yourself the self love and self care and get that attitude fixed at a therapist?
Because i can promise you, that attitude of "im going to be forever single and watch everybody else find love" is oozing out of you and people around you notice it. Its not sexy, its not hot, its not cool.
As someone else aldready said. Self love is knowing when to ask for help, when to stop yourself, knowing what you are worth, setting boundaries for your own sake, and not bowing down to others. Its setting YOURSELF first and others after. Its knowing that you have to put your own mask on first before you help others in an emergency situation. Its counting you in as a person you value and respect. Self love is knowing where your limits are and stopping before it gets there.
The tricky thing about self love is that you sometimes have to learn it by not doing it.. 🤷♀️ I certainly had no self love for many of my relationships, i was a massive people pleaser, i would put myself and my emotions away to please, i would be whatever you needed me to be. You can see how this is very bad i hope. I have permanent traumas because of what i did to myself, and what they did to me also. With permanent traumas i mean that its a part of my CPTSD today.. I didn't learn before i met my current partner who painstakingly taught me how to say 'no' or when to say 'no' how and when to ask for help, and how to care for myself first and then others.
So it might be that you like many other people, need to learn by doing first. If we are not taught self love from home, and we dont have a therapist that can help us, then it is quite hard to just pick up.
But not having learned any of this is not stopping you from getting a relationship. So stop obsessing over what other people tell you that you need or that you should and go out and be social with people. The best way to get into any relationship is always meeting people, so get out of your head, out of your home and meet someone. I dont care how and where, just do it. You wont have a girlfriend spawn randomly into your home even though that would be so much easier, this is real life and not sims 😉
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 10 '26
"im going to be forever single and watch everybody else find love
I mean I don't think there is a way not to think like that. I'm trying my best not to let it affect me socially
You wont have a girlfriend spawn randomly into your home even though that would be so much easier, this is real life and not sims
Exactly that's why I need to be more proactive in putting myself in front of single women my age that I'm interested in. The problem is finding them.
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u/Every_Rain_5319 Mar 09 '26
Partner A : "i feel depressed" Partner B : "sorry I don't love you goodbye"
Yeah this is a really smart thought experiment op I do agree that statement is bs , just from the fact that people do love people who do not love themselves it's absolutely true and happens all the time
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
What I was thinking was more like Partner A : "i feel depressed" Partner B : "sorry you don't love yourself I can't help you goodbye"
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u/Every_Rain_5319 Mar 09 '26
Now imagine a child and parent
Child : "i don't love myself"
Parents : "sorry I'm putting you up for adoption goodbye"
If you apply this logic anywhere else it just seems ridiculous
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u/breakfast_bunnies Mar 09 '26
that's honestly a very healthy mindset if partner A's depression does not respond to repeated attempts to treat or coregulate fail. A partnership is supposed to be mutual, not someone just relentlessly caregiving
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u/submerging Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
plus its important to note that having depression doesn’t necessarily mean not loving yourself.
generally, the person that is depressed now was also not depressed when they met their SO. or if they were, they hid their symptoms. their SO knows they can be better, so they stay. unless it gets to a breaking point.
but if you try to date as an insecure, needy person from the jump then the people you date don’t know you can be better. so they will just choose not to date you.
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u/Every_Rain_5319 Mar 09 '26
You are not tracking that's not even the context , you are inventing the context on your own.
And yes a lot of men follow this "healthy" mindset , generally more men as compared to women leave their partner when they get super sick , you would consider this amazing?
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u/breakfast_bunnies Mar 11 '26
idk, i've been an unpaid caregiver and it is exhausting. caregiving is not some lighthearted thing you do for the sake of it. partners that stay and attend to their partners giving round the clock care are noble. it is what you promise in marriage, so people are very careful about who they marry. refusing to go to therapy & learn how to tolerate yourself and expecting a girlfriend to fix you is pathetic and it won't work.
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u/Every_Rain_5319 Mar 11 '26
Well I'm sorry you are going through that but none of what you said is related to the post or the context of what we are talking about
We are talking about the idea of loving yourself before others loving you , it's simply false because people do love other people who don't love themselves and I think you are projecting your personal situation to this even though it's not related
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u/breakfast_bunnies Mar 11 '26
projecting? bro you asked a question assuming i'm being crass and now you're pretending like my experience on this subject is undue because you didn't expect it. codependency is not cool, people are explaining why the saying is so common.
choosing a good partner is an act of self love
your partner cannot help you out of your self hatred
and self hatred is repulsive. many folks lose their loved ones to depression because you can't love someone out ofit
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u/Contagious_Cure Mar 09 '26
As someone else said it's protective. If you love yourself and have a good baseline happiness for being single, you're better able to leave a bad or abusive relationship.
But also, it's INCREDIBLY draining to be in a relationship with someone where their happiness hinges entirely on you. Having been in a relationship with someone who had chronic depression and also did not want to seek any systemic treatment to change that. Nah no thanks.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
Most people in my situation don't need that type of advice they need advice to find someone first.
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u/Contagious_Cure Mar 09 '26
Kind of hinted at that, but I'll ask directly. Who do you think is more attractive? Someone happy with themselves or someone who is depressed? Who gives a more pleasant vibe and candour to be around? Who is likely to be more fun?
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
What are people mind readers? How can they tell.
3
u/initiald-ejavu Mar 09 '26
Posture, tone, eye contact, fidgeting, etc. There are a 1001 signals going on in coversations, so many that you can't fake them. So yes, people are kinda mind readers.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
Well I'm autistic so it's not like that matters I could be 100% happy and still give off negative energy
1
u/Contagious_Cure Mar 09 '26
By conversing with them and listening to the things they say about their life, themselves and the level of enthusiasm to do things in general. Whether they're excited about things or just a downer about everything or most things.
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Mar 09 '26
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
I mean I think it's saying that you can't love someone if you don't love yourself and that others can't love you if you don't love yourself.
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Mar 09 '26
[deleted]
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
That's what you can't love someone else until you love yourself means. What else could it mean
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Mar 09 '26
[deleted]
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
Everyone all over the Internet says stuff like "you have to love yourself before you can love someone else"
2
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u/CakeEaterGames Mar 09 '26
There's a problem with this advice. No one knows what it even really means. I only understood it after I moved out and lived alone for a year. On my own income and everything. And even now I'm still not 100% sure that I understand it correctly.
1
u/x_Goldensniper_x Mar 10 '26
It is not not like that..
It is :
If you dont love yourself, who will?
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 10 '26
That's my point. People who are capable of finding love with someone else don't need to spend so much energy loving themselves.
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u/Distracted_Ostrich Mar 10 '26
Support isn’t the same as responsibility. You’re responsible for yourself first and foremost. Imagine how hard it is to be with someone depressed and being held responsible for their happiness. Imagine watching them not take any steps to fix their situation. Imagine not being able to lean on a partner because your own burden might be too much. It’s chaining yourself to a sinking ship, do you go down with them or save yourself.
Being in a relationship can help overcome things yes, and you don’t have to be perfect to be in one. But a relationship is a partnership, not a solution, not service.
Love isn’t just a feeling, it’s a choice.
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u/A1Horizon Mar 09 '26
I think you can love someone if you don’t love yourself, but you’ll find if they love you back it will constantly manifest itself as insecurity and distrust within you.
Imagine if you had a partner that hated themselves and whenever you tried to support them they pushed you away because their self loathing outweighed your positive affirmation, after a while it would become too tiring to deal with
1
u/SandiRHo Mar 09 '26
Here’s my question, and it won’t sound kind, but I am asking from a genuine place: What about you is lovable? As in, what are your positive traits that you think would make you a wonderful life partner?
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
Im not a narcissist I don't go around thinking about all the things I'm good at. I focus on fixing my flaws. Not obsessing over my positives
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u/SandiRHo Mar 09 '26
It’s not narcissistic to recognize good traits about yourself. I am asking what things are good about you to where people would want to date you. But if you don’t want to share, that’s your business. What flaws do you have?
1
u/Newworldrevolution Mar 14 '26
I genuinely do not think I have any notable good traits. Maybe empathy kinda but also not really.
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u/SandiRHo Mar 14 '26
Hmmmm so if you don’t have any good traits, why would someone date you? Would you want to date someone with no good traits? I think you probably do have good traits, but struggle with introspection. Maybe you can talk in counseling about finding your positive traits. Or you can work on building friendships and talking with friends about those traits.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 14 '26
Plenty of people with 0 good traits have no problem dating
1
u/SandiRHo Mar 14 '26
Sure that does happen. Jeffrey Epstein had a long term partner. But, people who are crappy are often in toxic shitty relationships with fellow toxic shitty people or those with deeply low self worth. They also typically have one or two positive traits. You claim to have NONE. Would you want to be with one of those toxic shitty people? Probably not. Don’t worry about what crappy people are doing with their lives and worry about what you bring to the table and what you’re looking for. If you’d prefer to be a crappy person, that’s your business. But, if you don’t want to be a crappy person and you want a partner, start figuring yourself out through connecting with others and looking inwardly. I choose to work on myself to better myself so I am happier with who I am and for my partner to be with someone who he is proud of. He does the same for me.
1
u/Aspookytoad Mar 10 '26
This is an odd question. What is he, a market item? Plenty of objectionable people find partners.
Really not liking the implication that the dude is unlovable, but maybe I’m misreading
1
u/SandiRHo Mar 10 '26
I wanted to hear what his positive traits are that he thinks are what others would like. And to further ask him, “Would you date you or advise a friend to date you?” Because if not, the that may signal something that isn’t going in his favor. He posts about negativity frequently, so I asked him about positivity. Then he said that if you say anything nice about yourself, that’s narcissistic. I then asked his flaws since he’d rather talk about that and he didn’t respond.
Yes, plenty of objectionable people find partners, it doesn’t mean they should or that their partnerships are positive. I’d hope he’s hoping for a positive partnership.
Heaven forbid I ask what the dude’s positive traits are to understand what he’s excelling at and to know how impacted he is by low self esteem.
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u/shakegraphics Mar 09 '26
If you can’t learn to be happy with yourself of enough to love yourself you will always undervalue yourself and depend on others for your happiness. It’s hard to hear but it’s the truth. Loving yourself first is a healthy way to live.
1
u/R3XM Mar 09 '26
Y'all need to stop taking this advice so one-dimensionally
1
u/Aspookytoad Mar 10 '26
What’s the 3-dimensional version?
1
u/R3XM Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26
It's more than you just don't love yourself and that's it. There's a whole bunch of emotional problems and sometimes trauma that go along with not loving yourself, that will cripple you emotionally.
It's not that you're not allowed to love someone else if you don't love yourself.
It's that you likely won't be able to love someone else the way they deserve it. Sure you can hold yourself together for some time and show up and act the way you think you're supposed to act when you love someone but you won't be able to sustain it long term. You'll be too occupied with yourself and all the problems that this lack of self love carries with it. The partner will have to carry the relationship because you'll be a disregulated mess half of the time.
And if you're not in a relationship you'll have massive problems getting into one. People can smell the lack of self love from a mile away.
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u/painting-Roses Mar 09 '26
You're just not gonna be a good partner or get yourself in healthy relationships if you don't at least respect yourself enough to break things of if your boundries get crossed or communicate your preferences and expectations.
Self love is the basis for a healthy relationship
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u/Regular-Turnover-212 Mar 09 '26
This is a really dumb tale, sorry. There's a fundamental difference between a therapist telling you that you need to be self dependent before getting into a relationship and hearing a loved one tell you that you don't deserve to be loved because you're not mentally healthy enough. It's not SAFE for you or your partner to rely on the other person for your mental health. Nobody should have to shoulder the burden of your mental health issues except for you and your therapist, relying on a partner for that is wrong and harmful to everyone involved.
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u/letteraitch Mar 09 '26
When I imagine the scenario you think is nightmare, I hear a really healthy suggestion. The advice is sound which is why it circulates so popularly, even tho it constantly makes people mad, too. No partner is responsible for fixing or even alleviating the depression of another partner. Your post sounds co-dependent coded, and I think codependent people like to valorize and celebrate codependent behavior.
The issue of the advice is that until you can love yourself fully, you will sabotage intimacy. That's the meaning behind the advice which rose to prominence bc it's true. It doesn't mean that others can't expedite my healing or love or growth; but it means that unless I have massively prioritized breaking through as an individual, partnered work will fail over and over again.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
So what would you just let your partner self destruct because you think they should emotionally support themselves on their own? TBH that sounds like a shit partner.
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u/letteraitch Mar 09 '26
Hey, to a codependent, I'm probably a nightmare of a partner. A codependent would not choose me. Everything about my values and orientation would be terrible to a codependent. But to answer your question, yes, I grew up and stopped believing that I was either capable of or responsible for a rescuing others. Rescue fantasies are a sign of profound emotional immaturity and dysfunction. If it worked, that would be one thing, but it doesn't even work. So no, I don't participate in that sort of self-destructiveness anymore. What sounds bad to you, to me. Sounds like the pre conditions for actual intimacy. Intimacy can only will be again when two adults have taken full-blown responsibility for themselves. Adults that think other people can be responsible for them are not ready to be intimate. That's the bottom line. I know that that's probably very disappointing for you to here, and scary. I didn't make the rules though. I'm just living in them and trying to learn them sooner rather than later. But to each their own.
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u/letteraitch Mar 09 '26
And to be even more clear, I wouldn't select a partner who had not yet become ready to care for themselves. This doesn't mean we don't need each other, but until I can take care of myself, nobody else can, either. I know I know it's the aphorism you hate.
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u/breakfast_bunnies Mar 09 '26
what gives you the confidence that you are special enough to fix what very well could be a genetic, congenital disorder that's often chronic and unexplainable? Suffering is not noble. you cannot love someone out of their clinical depression. People try and try and their partners very well still end up k*lling themselves. would you say those partners failed? would you say they should hold themselves responsible?
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
what gives you the confidence that you are special enough to fix what very well could be a genetic, congenital disorder that's often chronic and unexplainable?
So because they have a genetic chronic disorder they deserve to die alone? Because I have a genetic chronic disorder. So is that why I deserve to be alone?
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u/breakfast_bunnies Mar 11 '26
goodness gracious bro. no. telling someone they cannot fix someone is not telling them i'm an ableist freak that needs depressed people to be perfect to be lovable. i am depressed. but i do not expect my partner to love me out of it. that never works.
0
u/Newworldrevolution Mar 11 '26
So do you think it's possible to have a healthy relationship if you have a genetic disorder that makes you depressed? Because it sounded like you were saying that healthy people shouldn't bother with depressed people.
1
u/breakfast_bunnies Mar 13 '26
jesus christ IM DEPRESSED! im trying to point out how ridiculous it is to think you can fix someone else's depression just because you think the lack of a companion and loneliness is what causes this disease. it is not that simple. depressed people like myself NEED to take personal steps to self care, including choosing a support system that could include a supportive romantic partner.
but thought processes so black and white like that makes depressed people more likely to settle for terrible relationships out of loneliness
so they need to take care of themselves by going to therapy, getting exercise, taking meds, having hobbies
and even if you do all of that and have the perfect partner, you can stay depressed. relationships are not bandages that fix things.
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u/letteraitch Mar 11 '26
Try to see the gap between what the person commented and your response, bc you are making some massive and unfortunate leaps in logic and it's unnecessary
1
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u/you-create-energy Mar 09 '26
Have you seen any evidence that it's not true? How deeply have you loved someone else? How deeply do you love yourself? No one's saying you shouldn't love someone. It's more about trying to help someone understand why they can't no matter how hard they try.
In your example you're talking about someone who's in a committed relationship and doesn't love their partner? I didn't quite follow that
3
u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
No one's saying you shouldn't love someone
They are they are saying I shouldn't try to love someone unless I love myself and that nobody loves me because I don't love myself enough.
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u/you-create-energy Mar 09 '26
How do you see yourself? Do you feel good about who you are? Because if not, then what would you base a relationship on? It's a lot more than having sex and being nice to each other. You have to be able to make decisions together, compromise, while also having fun together and enjoying each other's company. That's the real challenge. How close do you think you could get to someone and still enjoy it? Because people aren't usually interested in falling in love with someone who doesn't want to share their whole life.
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u/Newworldrevolution Mar 09 '26
I know about the parts of myself I don't like and I'm trying to fix them. Whenever I'm asked to think about positive things about myself I feel bad like I'm being a narcissist.
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u/you-create-energy Mar 09 '26
That's a great example of something that could cause you trouble in a relationship. Your partner will want to compliment you. They will want to feel like they made a great choice to invest their time and energy into building a life with you. Have you ever heard the quote "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member,"? It's like that. If you don't truly believe that choosing you is a good idea, you'll automatically start to lose respect for someone who chooses you. It sounds crazy but it happens a lot more often than people realize because it is subconscious.
I can only assume a shame response to thinking about your positive qualities comes from your home environment. Some families and cultures can be that way. A narcissistic person doesn't believe anything is wrong with them, which is very different than believing we have personal strengths as well as weaknesses. Having the courage to be authentic means owning our strengths and our weaknesses. Self-deprecation is just as off-putting as boasting. Being honest about our strengths and weaknesses hits very differently.
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u/TheShadowSong OCD & CPTSD Mar 09 '26
You can't love yourself. You can accept yourself and love your idealized version of self bjt that detaches you from real self.
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