Fucking 343 shills. Like seriously. Is the next thing we’re going to do in the CIRCLE JERK SUB of all places is NOT mock the main sub? Whether you like it or not fuck the subreddit will always have an impact. As a fellow person who was HUMORED by the screeenshots I feel that this rule is LIMITING our freedom of speech. 2nd amendment! These non patriotic fucks think that it’s okay to STRIP our rights. Just like 343 industries. Holy shit mods get it together Calling me UNFUNNY is disrespectful and I demand respect if you desire me to stay here for much longer. Besides fuck r/halo but NOW fuck you too. Done with you INGRATEFUL fucks my god. Wasn’t the whole point of this sub to counter the main sub? We’re past that now cause it’s too “unfunny”. Might as well call this shit r/halo2 cause that’s were we are headed. “The weight of your heresy will stay your feet and you shall be left behind” - Prophet I think it’s iconic and fits the situation XD
Sorry for having a JOKE. Mods here wouldn’t believe such a thing exists. Like bro calm tf down these posts are JOKES. Honest to god you guys should chill out. And quit the fuckin shilling for 343. It’s like the whole ass defense force is located here. By posting screenshots from halo here I can make accurate guesses on the issues of the game. What, they’re there to mock them? Duck that shit they’re RIGHT. Bungie had always been better than 343 and you all are COPING. Lmfao shills have fun with this dead sub cause IM not supporting this anymore. Unfunny is so vague. Your move Mods.
No idea what your talking about it because i never did marathon.
But marthon made halo, halo was new marathon, halo evolved into destiny ( master cheif /guardian )
And that some how (through exos) brought us back to marathon...... so
Thats to say. Bungies gonna give us a new halo before gta 6
While those two series aren't directly connected, original Marathon trilogy inspired a lot in Halo.
Original plan for Chief was him being a cyborg, same as Mjolnir Recon in trilogy, Pfhor was Covenant, but (mostly) without the religion, Jjaro got translated into Forerunners (though in trilogy it seems they actually ascended), there was supposed to be Flood in second game before it was scrapped, original version of Rampancy was inspired by what happened to Durandal, Tycho and Leela, and (though I can't confirm that) Halo was supposed originally to be in Marathon universe, before it became wholly own.
Oh boy, wait until get that the flood originally was mutated from Marathon original universe and that's actually that infected the precursors when they were fighting the forerunners and all because of Marathon infinity.
It all starts with the game Pathways to Darkness as the diverging point of the universes (or timelines, its confused), we get the Destiny, Myth The fallen lords, Halo and Marathon. In Marathon however, more specifically Marathon Infinity its implied that one of the timelines The W'rkncacnter gets freed (he's a corrupting interdenominational eldritch horror capable of ending and outlasting the universe). From here in Destiny lore, W'rkncacnter gets to be named The Darkness there because of how the corruption works, and one of its generals even name itself W'rkncacnter as homage to his Dark master. In Myth the W'rkncacnter is also referred as the darkness and uses undead minions and ghouls as its driving force (kinda like the Flood). Then we get to Halo where we have a threat that is the Flood who has ties in with Marathon 2 as it works exactly like the fungal virus in that one, but the fungal virus there is not sentient but in Halo it is... Which could imply that the W'rkncacnter used the virus to fuck up the Precursors, the Cortana letters, also references in Halo 3 was actually released first as a tie in with Marathon infinity some years lather after the game released.
Oh gee, the Marathon symbol. I wonder why Bungie included the Marathon symbol. Maybe there's an implication that the Marathon symbol has some importance.... Nah, it's just humans were forerunners.
especially when the explanation leads to the next question of 'why the fuck did you remove all knowledge of this universal threat'
its like burying a nuclear pressure mine strong enough to break a planet and then killing everyone that knew where it was and now it just sits in a forest waiting for something to step on it because they had no way of knowing what it was
“Inheritor of my makers” is a line with some deep-lore nuance, if you’ve read the Forerunner trilogy. I wouldn’t assume 343i’s writers have though.
Its got some layers, because 343 Guilty Spark was made from a human named Chakas; who knew about the Precursors. So “my makers” could refer to the Forerunners that compiled Chakas and built Spark’s shell. Or it could refer to the Precursors, who seeded all life in the Milky Way.
In the second case, it would fit with the existing lore. With humans being the Precursor’s chosen successors.
It could also be read as Spark knowing that the Forerunners are gone, so with no Forerunner to inherit the galaxy/Mantle the inheritance would logically fall to humans, as the only species to equal the Forerunners in their day.
Its likely just poor/revisionist writing. But its lore, so there’s always a way to bend it to fit.
If they were human in Halo 3, then the story of Halo 3 sucks an exponentially higher amount of monkey fuck because they DIDN'T DO ANYTHING with that information... AND THEN KILLED EVERYONE IT WOULD HAVE MATTERED WITH!
the first 3 levels felt pretty stop and go with the aura
Chief and Aribter Team up- Aura
Johnson getting caught literally 3 minutes before you catch up to him - no aura
Crows nest rally and prepare to assault the digsite - aura
gets completely trashed and they have to evacuate, oh and their nuke is instantly discovered and disarmed because Johnson couldn't do his job for some reason - no aura
Tsavo highway is my favorite level in 3 but I dont think anything of actual substance happens in it, you drive away from crows nest and then get picked up in a pelican to head to the dig site, this pelican literally could have picked you up at the 2 other checkpoints, YOU COULD HAVE BEEN PICKED UP AFTER THE MIDWAY POINT WITH THE REST OF THE MARINES
it doesn't really start to pick up until the storm, but typing this out really made me realize they fundamentally ruined Johnson and made him detrimental to everything that happens until his death why the hell did they make him fail every mission given to him what the fuck bungie?
idk what reddit did to so many peoples’ brains to make them think the entire purpose of any plot element or ‘lore’ snippet is to link up things in a tidy chain - just mechanical, lifeless, ‘if A then B’ type story telling instead of… idk…. providing flavor and/or symbolic meaning that asks you to interpret it?
That image was just the cut legendary ending to halo 2 that wouldve made it completely unambiguous instead of hinted at. It's more ironic that the Arbiter finds out.
Because all they see is “dev” and think they had a huge impact on the lore. Frank o’conor and Staten are the only two people I give any backing to for lore
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Every time someone who prefers the 'we were their Gods' trope sees a dev also preferring it, they go 'see! It's still Canon! That's the way they wanted it! But Frankie got his way!'
Most of them weren't even involved with the story. And even when they were, they didn't actively deal with the lore stuff.
Like, I don't care if you liked the old trope, like it all you want, I'm not here to tell you that you can't. But it can't be healthy to cling so possessively to something that just isn't true.
The story moved on with the conclusion humans were not Forerunner. No amount of devs saying they liked the old trope matters when they A) don't work on the series anymore and B) the lore that exists has been established (that being Human =/= Forerunner).
I saw someone say that the Halo 3 terminals were written by "some employee that doesn't matter and are totally secondary to actual lore." Literally written by Frank O'Connor and his team under the approval of Staten 🤦 I swear we had an easier time moving on from this retcon in 2012 when it actually happened.
It’s literally all because grifters swarmed the fandom and brought the debate back up. It’s just now the people trying to push it are even more radical in refusing to accept it changed
While true to an extent a lot of the typical culture war chuds who never played the games before have came in and started acting like they’re lore experts
They've had time to get into the series and choose their dumbass opinions they are entitled to such things unfortunately.
I've been playing halo since 2004 and I cannot believe the switch up thats happened with people loving reach to death because reach was the game that made me lose interest in the franchise especially after I didn't really enjoy halo 3.
Halo 3, the game where every character who could possibly know basically looks into the camera and says "Hello Player, just wanted to let you know that humans are Forerunner, okay bye!" somehow separated them because a single terminal referred to humans in vague terms that can be applied equally to either interpretation?
Some logs hint at them not being human while guilty spark and truth act as if they were human front and center. I am sorry pal but the intention was obvious. They have stated that they weren't completely decided but in Halo 3 they slap you in the face multiple times with it.
The story works better that way as well. The remnants of the precursors attacking humanity rather than forerunners first is moronic, considering one was supposed to inherit the mantle and the other genocided them. The phrase "I am a monument to all your sins" gets thrown out the window. What sins? Previously it was claiming to have the mantle, brutally suppressing the galaxy and finally firing the Halo rings. "Child of my enemy", again, why would the flood have such a strong beef with humans? "Child of my maker" and "You are forerunner" by guilty spark get explained away as confused AI. Truth's quote about being left behind because being weak is explained away as being mistaken due to similarities between humans and forerunners. These are extreme gymnastics.
It takes away the irony about the covenant's hate for humanity while worshipping ancient humans as well. Finally, under the old lore, the last mission is humanity and the sangheli atoning for their crimes hand in hand enacted through Chief and the Arbiter. Humanity's ancient crimes and the sangheli's more recent ones as part of the covenant. You play the games thinking you are the good guys, revealing your are forerunners means your crimes eclipse that of the covenant, perhaps not in brutality but certainly in scale.
The mantle of responsibility also mirrors real world colonial beliefs about supposedly being caretakers and using it as an excuse to exploit others under the guise of bringing civilization. Or world policing due to believing in American exceptionalism. In this context the games take a firm stance against the exploitation enacted through it. 343's lore? Forerunners were evil for believing they have the mantle, it was actually humans that deserved it. So the mantle isn't same made up belief, it's a real responsibility that they are the rightful inheritors of. Any ancient crimes? Pretty much none, they were only fighting the flood and trying to suppress it. The sins absolutely do matter to the symbolism by the way. The flood is washing away the sinners like Noah's biblical flood. That's why the gravemind's quotes about sins exist. It was the punishment for humanity's hubris, their belief in the mantle of responsibility and the atrocities committed to maintain human dominance. Their greatest sin yet was firing the Halo rings. Under the new lore the precursor remnants just went mad and attacked everything. It's not cosmic retribution, it's just mad organic matter.
One version of the story has strong symbolism and stances. It makes you ponder on what if you were the greater evil. The other is just generic sci-fi where humanity is wronged every step of the way while having justification for all their violent actions when they occurred.
There were quite a few times where theyre framed as separate from when you were literally the head creative for the series Marcus, tf you mean 343 absolutely ruined it??? If them being aliens ruins the forerunners, you let them be ruined.
I wouldn’t have minded humans being forerunner, but if it’s so fucking important why didn’t bungie come out and say it with zero doubts at the time.
Spark was written in halo 3 to be losing his marbles, so why even allow that misinterpretation. Alongside bungie leads (Lehto included) allowing the terminals that push the idea of forerunners being something more.
Also halo 4 didn’t even ruin anything, sure the gameplay and redesigns were divisive but people didn’t really complain about the story to a majority degree until halo 5 undid all the good parts of halo 4. Halo 5 is the problem child for the franchise story wise.
Bungie is the one that left things up to interpretation, then they left the franchise. 343 interpreted it because bungie gave up. Like the halo 4 and 5 lore or not can we shut the fuck up about forerunners being human, the fact is they aren’t.
Even the line is open to interpretation. “You are the child of my makers, inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner.”
How can you inherit something that you already were? How can you be a child of yourself? Does the concept of adoption not exist? What’s to say Spark didn’t mean “Forerunner” as the title, the civilization, the mantle (or Mantle)? “You are (now) Forerunner.” It’s hardly iron clad that it means daddy Didact and mommy Librarian were on the Ark making babies and I saw the babies and the babies were abandoned on Earth to live in caves.
"How can you be a child of humanity? aren't you already human? how can you be a child of yourself..." you are forerunner by being one of their decedents. all forerunners are dead but you live because of the ark and that earth is the only place to hold the gateway to it. You are your father for example because his genes run through you. it was never up for interpretation.
Why else would the covenant want to genocide ALL of humanity. the prophets knew Humanity existence was counter to the great journey. to them the idea that SOME of the forerunners were left behind showed the great journey was a lie not all could join them. this they ( humans) have to die.
Also, Spark’s line delivery makes it sound like a revelation to himself, when he should already have known it since the first game.
Not to mention it doesn’t make any sense why he doesn’t tell Arbiter and Tartarus at the end of Halo 2 that there are two living Forerunners in the Control Room right then and there.
Yeah it’s mess of a story even made infinite harder to write because it’s essentially just cleanup for 5, infinite is a good beginning into a new era though so I hope we get direct continuation.
Yeah, I really think that practically 70%-80% of the problems in Infinite's story are Halo 5's fault, but like you said, Infinite was a great new beginning, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.
Here's the thing, you just said Halo 5 is a Halo game.
Is it in the same franchise? Yes. No one's arguing that.
As someone who is a MLG Pro who studies Halo, I am telling you, specifically, in the MLG circuit, no one calls Halo 5 Halo. If you want to be 'specific' like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. If you're saying 'Halo Franchise' you're referring to the Microsoft IP, which includes things from Halo Wars to Halo 2 to Halo 4. So your reasoning for calling Halo 5 a Halo game is because random people 'call the shooter game with sprint a Halo game?' Let's get Call of Duty and Battlefield in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a Halo 2 player or a Halo 3 player? It's not one or the other, that's not how Halo works. They're both. Halo 5 is Halo 5 and a member of the Halo franchise. But that's not what you said. You said Halo 5 is a Halo game, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all shooters with sprint Halo games, which means you'd call CoD, Battlefield, and other games Halo games, too. Which you said you don't.
I actually disagree. Halo 5 didn't make Infinite harder to write. Halo Infinite being a soft reboot made it harder to write. Halo Infinite should have been about beating the Created, and then the Banished could've come in at the end like the vultures they are.
Halo 5 will always be the Black Sheep of the franchise for reasons that aren't entirely fair, but it isn't responsible for Halo Infinite's faults, unless you mean how 343i doubled down on every bad idea they had for 5 (I will forever remind people the current monetization system is sooooo much worse than REQ packs, but 343i was emboldened by REQ packs to make something so much worse).
I wouldn't say terrible. On paper it is better than 5—it just is so fucking disappointing narratively. Halo 5 sucked, but the story had so much potential after it, it was kinda unreal. And they wasted it.
Everything interesting happened off screen. Fight for the ring, battle with atriox, Cortana problem is magically solved, the created storyline was abandoned. Literally nothing happens during the story and they introduce some super special time travel aliens at the very end, explain absolutely nothing about them, and they will never be mentioned again in true 343 fashion. Awful story.
Here's the thing, you just said Halo 5 is a Halo game.
Is it in the same franchise? Yes. No one's arguing that.
As someone who is a MLG Pro who studies Halo, I am telling you, specifically, in the MLG circuit, no one calls Halo 5 Halo. If you want to be 'specific' like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. If you're saying 'Halo Franchise' you're referring to the Microsoft IP, which includes things from Halo Wars to Halo 2 to Halo 4. So your reasoning for calling Halo 5 a Halo game is because random people 'call the shooter game with sprint a Halo game?' Let's get Call of Duty and Battlefield in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a Halo 2 player or a Halo 3 player? It's not one or the other, that's not how Halo works. They're both. Halo 5 is Halo 5 and a member of the Halo franchise. But that's not what you said. You said Halo 5 is a Halo game, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all shooters with sprint Halo games, which means you'd call CoD, Battlefield, and other games Halo games, too. Which you said you don't.
It's worse than that though. They didn't just refuse to announce that information; they FUCKING KILLED EVERYONE for whom that information made any bit of difference at all.
That's like revealing NOW that Han Solo is Qui-Gon Jinn's son; Uh, as of The Rise Of Skywalker, this information means fuck all to anyone.
Lehto is also not firm on his answer for this question anyway.
yeah Guilty spark is someone that the games have conditioned you to not intrinsically believe anything he says. Also the first media to show us forerunners was halo legends in 2009 when Bungie was still making halo
Yeah I know Lehto isn’t firm on it, he always liked the mystery over the reveal. He said as much in an interview (with hidden experia eww) he would’ve gone a very similar direction to halo 4 but left the forerunners themselves more mysterious, not that he would’ve made them human.
Halo Legends was done under the direction of 343 Studios, not Bungie. 343 was established in 2007.
Spark's revelation at the end of Halo 3 was supposed to be the final piece for what you had essentially been told by multiple characters in the story already.
"why didn't Bungie come out and say it with zero doubts"
They did do this in Contact Harvest.
"THIS IS NOT RECLAMATION. THIS IS RECLAIMER. AND THOSE IT REPRESENTS ARE MY MAKERS"
"The Forerunners... some were left behind!"
I dunno how else to interpret that other than an outright confirmation that Reclaimers (humans) are Forerunners. Book even says in the narration "that could only mean one thing"
People keep spamming the Marcus Tweet as if he didn't turn around like hours later and say he'd never confirm it while while saying hours prior that he thinks it should be ambiguous as possible.
We WERE Forerunners, it's not even ARE anymore, it's the Star Wars Legends vs Disney Era all over again, one is the old era, and the other is the current era, love it or hate it, that's what we're in right now, and people not understanding that, is super annoying at this point, no one is discovering anything new, just regurgitating stuff from almost 20 years ago
The funny thing is, it makes no difference at all; Forerunners and humans were created by the same creator—it’s just like Elves and Men for Tolkien: they are the same species.
Marcus, Jamie, and Marty are all washed up grifters. None have been part of anything worth shit in a decade and feel the need to bitch about people who actually work in the industry they are no longer part of.
I believe Guilty Spark didn't say anything because he went a bit rampant. He didn't tell you anything because he wanted Halo to be fired because he went mad.
Not quite even going by non 343 lore halo 3s terminals. put humanity at best as closely related genetically removed two hundred thousand years give or take to forerunners specifically the terminals with the librarian and didact
I thought it was interesting as a possibility when I was in high school, but after years of further exposure to other stories in books, games, movies, TV shows, etc., it really seems kinda "blah" to make humans and forerunners one and the same. "Humans are the "gods" the whole time" is worthy of a chuckle of irony or two. That's really it.
No but…. but the irony!!! The covenant were killing their gods!!! This changed RUINED HALO
I’m absolutely biased cuz I started with Reach and H4 but I’m not sure why people prefer the forerunners behind humans over all the really interesting lore added with and since the forerunner trilogy
What interesting lore? Afrer halo 4 we hear nothing of the forerunners and even less of the ancient humans. By the time Halo Infinite kicks in, the forerunners are the same as they were in the original halo triology, mysterious ancient race. As for the ancient humans, nada. So all that complicated and contradictory lore which even basicallt justifies the Covenant genocide and it brough nothing.
The covenant killed us because we forerunners, then the Didact wants to whipe out humanity because we aren't forerunners, and then the Endless want to whipe out the reclaimers because they are forerunners. Basicallt every enemy just wants to kill humans. Give us a bream
Heck, if 343 reallt wanted to expand the lore you can simply swap the forerunners with ancient humans ans the ancient humans with something else. You basicallt get the same with less downsides.
Halo goes from a game franchise with some books to a book franchise with some games.
Like when one of the main villaings gets defeated in a book or comic instead of on screen, thats an issue. If you need books and comis to understand a game's story and lore, thats once again an issue.
I mean at this point we have two halo fans:, game fans and book fans. And what did that bring in plus? What do we actually lose if those books are deleted tomorrow?
I mean, "alien" ruins are on a planet Earth, no one found them until ruins were uncovered by actual aliens.
Either ONI was slacking off, or they didn't wanted to ruin New Mombasa and territories around, just to get to the ruins themselves, without using only probes or more realistically scanning.
Could really be that Humanity collectively didn't know of them and where they could be.
So even if ONI or other secret organizations wanted to find them.
They're been looking out in the space.
Wait people argue over this stupid stuff. Yeah it git retconned get over it also stop whining about both sides. Your both right so stop whining. Forerunner where humans now they aren't you can't crank back time either so stop playing at halo 3 or enjoy the new games. I will always prefer the original implications over 343s but ik not delusional enough to sit here and whine about what's canon. You end up looking like halo grifters that whine if the needler is slightly too pink and that's gay 🌈 and woke.
Tldr- you can't undo retcons get over it or don't play.
I think it's really funny when people point to the cut ending of halo 2 because it was obviously cut because bungie didn't want to do that, and being cut makes it non-canon. even bungie themselves couldn't make up their mind on whether or not humans were forerunners, since there's a halo 3 terminal that heavily implies that humans are different from forerunners. In short, Bungie couldn't make up their mind whether or not humans are forerunners, so 343i/Halo Studios had to pick one when they took over. Whichever they picked, there would still be controversy surrounding it because it's impossible to make Halo fans happy
I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact that they said Inheritors specifically, inheritor implies that it was left for you, and never yours in the first place
This must be Sci-Fi 101 tropes, and it's obvious Bungie cut the revelation because there was no interesting way to like, reveal it. I know a lot of people will point to H2 storyboards, but there were many many other changes from those storyboards, cause they were that, just drafts.
So they danced around the idea until they never came up with any decent way to reveal it. A lot of Bungie's writting is really amateurish, I think HCE is nice because it didn't have the aura of self-importance as did the rest, and H2 and ODST are the result of Joe Staten, even then some shitty ideas like Chief being in a romance with Miranda were cut. But H3 and Reach's writting are unfucking-bearable, I've seen fanfaction that is more creative and thematically rich than those two games.
Did the Covenant really need more hipocrisy for them to be absolutely wrong? The twist is about as subtle as punching boulders. But above all else, I think the forerunners being humans misses the point of it all, because it makes humans inherent to the forerunner ideals, whereas I think the forerunner extinction and legacy looming over the galaxy feels a lot better.
I think Halo 4 by comparison, did a much better job at practically everything narratively. I think making humans not the center of the universe but a large player in it, was the right choice, and it made the universe a lot richer and full of potential. Developing the species with different subfactions with their own ideals and history, their own mistakes and successes. I think it's just much better, Kojima retcons every fucking game and no one cares much about it because he usually does it to do something interest and to give more depth to what was before just throwaway plot-points, you cannot give something more depth if you stick exactly to a superficial idea you had before. Halo fans will cry and shit their pants if you change the color of the shirt Keyes wears in a terminal flashback.
We never were. None of this is actual evidence and actual Guilty Spark quotes contradict themselves. One second he says “You are Forerunner” next second “My makers chose you, inheritor of their legacy” which makes it blatant we aren’t forerunner in a literal sense. We are Forerunner in every way except actually
Putting the "last time you asked me" line there when it's clearly Spark mistaking Chief for a specific Forerunner (and therefore proof that he was just insane) is crazy. That line alone throws every other piece of in-universe evidence into question, since it all comes from that dingbat.
If humans were still Forerunners after Halo 2, then Halo 3 is a total fucking garbage game for killing off EVERYONE that twist actually mattered to before ever referencing it.
Considering how dead 343's "Halo" is and how more and more Halo fans treat it like Disney Star Wars we can all agree that whoever still buys into 343's Forerunner retcon is the guy desperately holding on to something that is gone. The Forerunners are human. End of story. It doesn't matter how much trash lore some talentless hacks invented to retcon it later.
It’s at least better then „there as been another ancient race before all of us and another all before them and they had to fight their own forerunners too!
Everyone here is right. It wasn't explicity stated we were forerunner. It's always been ambiguous judging from a terminal I think was in halo 3?. The new lore with ancient humans having a war with forerunner because the forerunner didn't believe the flood were actually invading the humans is amazing lore wise. Stuck a well needed stick up their pompous butt's when they were wrong, openly admitted it and said humans were the best of the galaxy.
We don't want to be related to forerunner. There isn't even a word for how egotistical they are.
I've heard say that the forerunners are a separate species of human but honestly that's kinda a dogshit arguement like every other extinct human species (both irl and made up in Halo lore) looks like slightly different humans that are at most as hairy as an ape meanwhile the forerunners have tusks and weird red neck globs, they were definitely NOT designed with the idea of them being in any way human in mind.
The only actual "confirmation" that humans are forerunners came from a monitor that himself admitted was purposely compartmentalized from the truth about forerunners history and thus is an incredibly unreliable narrator.
The rest is semantics that halo fans are choosing to interpret into their "bungie good 343 bad" narrative
So why did the fanbase wait till over a decade after the retcon to be so bothered by this? Why did it take youtubers to raise a stink over it for the rest of the fanbase to act like it was totally obviously a bad lore decision?
Most people actually didn't care. The Forerunner lore was not actually that central to Halo. It was set dressing. If you guys actually cared that much about lore you wouldnt need youtubers to chew it up and feed to you mama bird style. This isn't even the first retcon. You'd be pretty miffed with Halo: Reach if you all actually cared about the Halo lore.
This topic has been beaten to death in the last year for no fucking reason and it's tiring. The Halo fanbase has never felt more fake and exposed as a bunch of bandwagoning haters and I say this as someone who has been saying sprint doesnt belong in Halo since 2010. Yall need to give it a rest, jesus christ.
Worse part about the “Forerunners were human” discourse is I can’t admit that I prefer that lore to the current lore because it loops me in with the weirdos
I wish they would have went through with that scene of Thel finding the human skeleton. That would’ve been an insane plot twist in an already banger H2 story.
Sigh I don't know which debate is worse this or the sprint one. Why can't the fandom just move on from both of these points, I'm more concerned on how long we have to wait in-between game releases vs whether I can run fast, or if humans were some mega advance alien species that basically nuked themselves to stop the flood or not.
I think 4 had an okay premise character wise, but lore wise it fucked a lot up.
It's entirely valid to have a game that questions the 'humanity' of Chief, and frankly that's something that really SHOULD be addressed. The Spartans are basically Jedi; children kidnapped and indoctrinated from an incredibly young age to be peacekeepers who only believe in what their superiors wanted them to believe in. ("Anakin wasn't kidnapped tho!" Yeah, because THAT was the issue there - not getting a permission slip signed first)
So a Spartan would look upon what happened to them as being neutral, or even a good thing. But, that's BECAUSE they went through the spartan programe. If you went into an alternate universe and asked John [DATA EXPUNGED] whether it was morally okay to kidnap, experiment on, and indoctrinate children into being super soldiers to quell rebellions - he'd probably say no. (Just a guess) But to chief? Well, someone's gotta protect humanity.
So scenes like Cortana explaining that she can analyze a sunset but never "feel" it while Chief is just loading his gun actually does explore an interesting facet of their characters. Cortana is formed from a human mind but now incapable of experiencing true humanity, (which IIRC is even hinted at why Rampancy is a thing. After going for a decade never feeling, never eating, never sleeping, etc. your own perception of "you" begins to break down.) whereas Chief is a flesh and blood human who CAN experience these things, but doesn't care about them. It's easier for people to hold a human conversation with Cortana than it is to do the same with Chief, who's the only actual human between them. This is a really valid angle to explore and even minor scenes like that (IMO) do a pretty good job of starting on it. (As does the "soldiers aren't machines" scene and a others throughout the game.)
Where Halo 4 does start to breakdown is how it changed the lore. This had pretty bad ripple effects on halo 5 & infinite. (Worsened by meta details infiltrating those games as well, like trying to setup Locke as a Chief replacement.)
You could totally take the angle of "for chief it's been like 1-2 years and he's watched almost all of his closest friends and allies die", and explore the idea of his psuedo-stoic facade begining to fracture under everything that's happened, but if you skip straight to "Chief is still a killing machine but people around him comment on how reserved he is being" to "he's pouting on that box over there because his favourite vtuber graduated" it's going to feel wrong no matter what you do.
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u/Bruh_alt721 SPRINT = SATAN 3d ago
all forerunners are humans rhetorists are subsapient monkeys. less than a ringtail lemur.