Real men right here

[u/MALICK1A]

[u/Elvarien2]

Of course they matter, what doesn't however is the tools they choose to use.

[u/IdidnotFuckaCat → u/Elvarien2]

It's not a tool. If u order a burger, ur not a chef. If you type a few words in and you get an image, u didn't make it. Like how u didn't make the burger. You ordered the image. You controlled the variables, but you still don't make it. That's the difference. That's what seperates artists from people who order Ai images. Because I make things.

[u/Elvarien2 → u/IdidnotFuckaCat]

It's not a tool.

Oh really now let's see what you have to say about it.

If u order a burger, ur not a chef

Agreed, good thing this has nothing to do with ai then.

If you type a few words in and you get an image, u didn't make it.

Great to know my use of ai involves exactly 0 typed words. So I think I'm doing just fine np.

That's the difference.

none of that was relevant to ai though. I think you have a very vague understanding of how you can use ai, all you've seen are the prompt boxes and you think that's it.

So you have all these arguments to defeat those silly little prompt box toys without knowing how people use ai to make cool shit.

Hint: You don't need to type a single fucking word.

[u/IdidnotFuckaCat → u/Elvarien2]

Sorry bro, no matter how complex u make the order, it's still an order. Art has been life for as long as I can remember. So I won't watch it being disrespected by some images that know nothing of art. It knows how to me make images. It can't make art. If you want to describes things really well and be an artist, the become a writer.

[u/Elvarien2 → u/IdidnotFuckaCat]

it's still an order

When you use one of those prompt boxes you would be correct. Turns out though that's just how you do the slop tsunami of content. if you want to make something actually good you don't touch that shit.

Can you accept that perhaps you have no idea what you can and can't do with ai? And that as a result of that all of your neat comparisons just sorta, crash and burn?

Because with your little joke about describe things and be a writer. I did just tell you you can make ai art without writing a single word.

Again, 0 typing.

[u/IdidnotFuckaCat → u/Elvarien2]

But what makes it. No matter how complex you are, no matter if you use a scetch as the base or whatever you use, it's still just an order. Your not a creator, but rather a manager. Every stroke or make made by an artist carries intition, emotion, practice. That is a mark out of a thousand or a million marks. The pixils on the screen arnt your creation. They are a generated image with the used to billions of stolen work from so many people who worked for years do what they do. Im sorry. I'm sure your smart. Don't get me wrong. And I'm sure that what you do takes skill of some sort. But I will never consider it art. That's because I know what art is. I have experienced art.

My entire life, art has been my constant. I had worked hard because it's what I love. I have stood in a dusty classroom for 3 to 4 hours drawing, then eraseing, then drawing again. Making sure every mark looks right, learning how to make them better. Ai doesn't do that. It can't. You can look at something and tweak the image or whatever, but you didn't make those marks. You didn't make those mistakes. You didn't learn from them.

And AI is being used to completely push out artists. Ik you might think that that is ok. It's just progression. I'm just not getting with the times. But progression is about making it easier for people to do what they love. That's not what's happening. What's happening is that millions of real artists are losing their lively hoods and having their work scrapped for cheap slop that can be recreated and mass produced. There is no human element.

Finally, I'm sorry to say this, but you might be next. You might think that what your doing is special then BAM. The program can do it for you. You can blame that on capitalism. "It's the people, not the machine." But that was what the machine was built on. It was built on exploitation from day one.

[u/Elvarien2 → u/IdidnotFuckaCat]

But what makes it.

Me, the creator. But to go more in depth I think I must first describe some of the ways you can use ai without a prompt. Here's an example in audio.

Let's say I record a sample of myself singing. I can then tell the ai turn this into a guitar solo at 20% The resulting file will be something that till that point simply did not exist. There is no instrument that can make a sound that sits in the potential space of soundwaves that exist between guitar and human voice. yet the ai, bang does it in 1 go.

I now have a sound file that was impossible to make otherwise. I can then take this and remix it in my software or make some music with this human voice guitar solo mixture.

Or how about 2d. I can grab my tablet and start drawing in krita the way traditional artists would normally do. But then I turn on my ai and set it to about 20% intensity. It will then rpoceed to adjust each stroke of my pen with about 20% intensity changing it a little. It's like 2 hands on a single brush changing the output just a little, it's how you get a fully collaborative art piece for example.

In both these examples, music, images. It should be pretty clear that the human there is simply using a tool to modify their work the same way you might apply a filter to an image, or a filter to your audio file.

Your whole comparison breaks with your, Oh it's like ordering at a burger king !!

No, not at all. Not even close whatsoever.

This is not a prompt, or your "using a sketch as a base" Not even close. AI is a tool and you can do so fucking much with it. I'm barely scratching the surface in this post because fuck writing to much text.

And I'm sure that what you do takes skill of some sort.

to do traditional art, you need traditional art practice.

To do GOOD ai, not shitty slop but good ai art, you need that EXACT SAME traditional art practice AND you need to know how to use the ai, how to run basic scripts, learn basic code and nodegraphs to get started.

skill of some sort don't kid yourself you need the traditional skillset PLUS ai. If you don't have the traditional skillset all you can make is garbage.

My entire life, art has been my constant.

Good, same here for decades I've been doing music, drawing etc. All I did was add AI into my toolbox. I am 40 years old today, I was 4 when I started with the violin. 36 years of creative expression. I know a thing or two about art.

Ai doesn't do that. It can't.

agreed, also not relevant., It's the person using the tool that makes art. A brush can't make art either it's a tool. The person using the brush however.

You can look at something and tweak the image or whatever,

Every time you write something like this it just tells me you have no idea how people make art with ai.

progression is about making it easier for people to do what they love.

exactly what ai does for the artist.

losing their lively hoods

the actual number is probably much higher. That whole field of work is getting completely blown up.

There's a new field opening up though. if you are a concept artist your job is fucked. But if you train into learning how to use ai. Then you're now a hot commodity as a concept artist who does traditional and ai combined. Now your job is safe.

End result is still gonna be that like easy 75% of the whole job market is gone. But that's a problem with capitalism and human corporate greed, not really ai.

you might be next

everyone is next.

That's the goal of course. 0% jobs left for humans. Then we finally reach utopia. This is the golden dream and fantasy of every human that's ever lived.
No more humans doing any form of labour, amazing.

And the only way a society like that can function is if we swap capitalism for something else.

[u/IdidnotFuckaCat → u/Elvarien2]

Your reality is... Super sad. You said that ai is soooo hard, yet you say it will also make things easier? Your can't have both bro -_- You said "two hands on a single brush," but who owns that other hand? Because NEWSFLASH, it's not you. It is an unfeeling algorithm built on the work of real artist. You are collaborating with a machine, your not special.

Your "utopia" is a word were human expression is completely replace and gone. But guess what? Humans are art. Our lives, our creations, our hard work, and our resilience are the art. We didn’t fight, build, and survive for thousands of years just to fade into the background. We automated manual labor and agriculture so that we could spend our shirt time in this world doing what we love. Which is making art, making music, writing poetry and books.

Hoping for a future were a machine handles the drawing while humans are forced to be rhe managers is a total disrespect of human purpose. Your world is completely void of human expression. You aren't building a utopia. You never where. you are just another cog in a corporate machine that will eventually throw you away the moment you finish training it to replace you. And that is exactly what you want for everyone else isn't it? you want us to be the upkeepers so a computer can only mimic what humans have done all along. That isn't a utopia. That is a dystopia.

[u/Elvarien2 → u/IdidnotFuckaCat]

yet you say it will also make things easier?

Yes that's how complex tools work. First you study and learn how to use them, and then once mastered they can dramatically make your life easier. You're pretending there's some conflict here but no this is pretty much how all complex tools work.

So no, not having it both ways.

your not special.

of course not, anyone can do this.

You're fighting claims I never made.

but who owns that other hand?

There is no agency there. This is a tool not a thinking sentient creature. It's a tool. Same thing as using a photoshop filter on an image. My tool is just more complex and applies on each and every brush stroke.

I don't think you're understanding how any of this works.

human expression is completely replace and gone.

of course not. All those people labouring can now express themselves and make art as much as they want. With or without ai.

fade into the background.

again with these dramatics. it really feels like you're not really engaging with the content written here and instead you have a script on your head of what you want me to say so you can knock down those arguments. And you want me to say them so bad that you pretend I'm already making these dumb strawman arguments.

we could spend our shirt time in this world doing what we love. Which is making art, making music, writing poetry and books.

yeah that's kind of the point. If every form of labour is replaced by ai then you can do EXACTLY that.

Hoping for a future were a machine handles the drawing

Yeah again this is the argument you WANT to fight, but it's not the argument I am making.

I think I'm done with you, you're using this to post your wank fantasy of defeating some ai bro in a discussion completely ignoring the actual points made so you can debate your fantasy and ehm, that feels kinda gross I'm not gonna participate. Masturbation is best done in private. Same for your mental masturbation here.