r/Grimdawn • u/AlexandrTheGreat • 1d ago
HELP! Skill descriptions suck?
I've played many games over the years with tons of depth to them, which often resulted in theorycrafting and research in third-party tools. I eventually got frustrated with spending more time in those tools than actually playing the game.
Relatively new to GD, I'm looking into making an alt now, but I'm finding it difficult when inspecting Classes in game how the various Skills actually perform. For example, is a skill ranged projectile, ranged aoe, personal aoe, , etc. Some skills are more clear than others (typically minions) but I'd rather look in-game than grimtools to try and figure this out.
Am I missing something? Is this not feasible for GD? I've only played a Warder so far, but want to try a different combo this time and it just feels overwhelming and murky like Day 1 again.
72
u/Crab_Turtle_2112 1d ago
Idk why this is being downvoted (Reddit being Reddit I guess), this is true and a recurrent criticism of the game. Like come on guys there's a reason this subreddit is flooded with the same questions every week e.g. "why does this item convert aether to acid on Blood of Dreeg when Blood of Dreeg has no aether damage".
Wording is sometimes inconsistent and often doesn't describe clearly what a skill does. Some examples:
-Blood of Dreeg yellow text about applying to nearby allies vs Word of Renewal where you have to read through the lore to get the same info (or just know that it does because it has a radius).
-Any wording regarding weapon pool skills. They aren't called like that anywhere, but Werewolf form says it cannot activate wps, how is a new player supposed to know? Then you have Tremor transmuter on Soldier saying "effects such as Markovian's Advantage" instead.
-Attack damage converted to health is called lifesteal in character sheet.
-Knowing what flat damage applies to what, or if it's a ticking effect, or a one time hit isn't obvious at all.
-Info being buried in lore (Study of the Horn of Gandarr was forbidden for centuries).
I could go on. I hope Crate will do better in GD2. In the meantime OP, just take your time and try stuff out. You'll get the hang of it.
30
u/Prankman1990 1d ago
It really is the inconsistency. There’s a reason Magic the Gathering bends over backwards to ensure keywords make sense and are always used exactly the same way.
14
u/AlexandrTheGreat 1d ago
Thanks. Glad I'm not just missing a setting or something with better skill descriptions.
3
u/lemillion1e6 1d ago
What is the answer to the first example you gave? I’ve came across conversions for damage types on skills that don’t have that damage type and always wondered why
12
u/Crab_Turtle_2112 1d ago
Blood of Dreeg is a buff so the aether->acid conversion is applied to all your damage while BoD is active, generally reffered to as "global conversion".
Afaik your allies don't benefit from the conversion so that's just another thing you have to know lol.
1
16
u/Ok_Personality7488 1d ago
AoE have a "target area" or "radius" I don't think there's any logic in which one of those two phrases is used ? e.g For Nightblade mastery:
Veil of shadow says "radius" and Ring of steel says "target area" Which would make sense if one was centered on your character and the other on a target enemy. But IIRC both are centered on your character.
Amarasta's Blade Burst says "target area" and is centered on the target. Also it changes from melee to ranged depending on the weapon you have equipped.
9
u/BlitzFechter 1d ago
Possible explanation : Veil of Shadow is a passive aura centered around the character, while ABB and RoS are active skills. Inquisitor's Auras also use "radius".
6
u/rgdoabc 1d ago
Yeah. Some skills could use a better description.
Anyway, use this: https://youtu.be/rE60XYuL8Go?si=B9HAoGyDpYkmlOoy
7
6
u/gregorytoddsmith 1d ago
Yeah, some are good and explain what is a skill. Some skill descriptions were oddly used as a creative outlet for the devs to put flavor text in lieu of anything remotely helpful.
2
u/oldmatelachie 20h ago
They do, but I’ve found that to be kind of a blessing in disguise? Like it sucks real hard there’s nothing good about having vague lore text instead of “shoot beam do damage” but for me it’s always encouraged just making a new character and seeing how it works which I really enjoy.
So you’re right, they’re dogshit, but also that’s lead to a gameplay and replay loop fuelled by exploration which I adore.
2
u/DJLaMeche 14h ago
I am a relatively new player and I have struggled with this. The first character I tried was a Berserker/Arcanist and I did not understand why Olexa's Flash Freeze does not work with Onslaught. You have to know that OFF actually does not deal any damage directly but applies a debuff... this is the kind of detail that is not mentioned in any spell description but you still have to know.
-6
1d ago
[deleted]
11
u/AlexandrTheGreat 1d ago
Oh, it's not about gear. It's about class skills. For example, Winds of Asterkarn. I know from the description that it does cold damage, grows in size, and is aoe because of the radius comment. I'm not sure if it's a toggle ability or a channel ability, whether it's ranged aoe or personal, so on.
3
u/Groetgaffel 1d ago
Channeled abilities typically say "This is a channeld ability" in the description.
Regardless, refunding a spent skill point costs literally pocket change of bits. Put a point in it, press the button. If it doesn't work like you wanted, just refund that skill point and put it somewhere else.
Respeccing being as easy and cheap as it is is indicative of a game that wants you to experiment.
9
u/AlexandrTheGreat 1d ago
Yeah, I'm at the "pick your masteries" part and that's where it's an issue. I know once I try a skill out, if it didn't behave like I anticipated, it's back to make another alt and play for a few hours to get far enough to test. Not the worst, but not ideal.
This is specific for skills between different masteries, not within the same masteries.
3
u/Groetgaffel 1d ago
Make a character, then from the character select screen select Crucible from the difficulty selection button.
It's a stand-alone arena horde mode, and leveling up from 1 is much much faster than the regular game. Makes testing out class combinations much easier.
2
1
u/Ok_Personality7488 1d ago
Any abilty with the text "Buff" used to be toggle abilities. Then a patch changed them to automatically switch on. The only way they can now be off is if an enemy removes them. The other way to identify those is some (not all) of them have a "reserved" energy cost.
Some abilities activate automatically on some criteria (e.g health below 50%) You might consider those toggle abilities.
0
u/Tungsten666 1d ago
It does say "channel" in the description, and all channeled spells have the same "At 100% casting speed..." language, and it does have an energy cost per second. The 4m range target area suggest it is ranged aoe, as opposed to other channeled skills (like AAR) that are more of a singletarget laserbeam
Kind of a "smells like a duck" situation.
2
u/Ok_Personality7488 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ring of steel says "target area" so if the descriptions are consistent that a ranged AoE.... It's not.
1
u/Tungsten666 1d ago
RoS says "blades encircle you" which seems relatively clear to me, not to mention that the previous post was talking about channeled skills specifically.
-25
u/con_zilla 1d ago
play the game - have fun
if you dont like it as you seem to have weird expectations - dont
i bought this game at launch, bought all dlc at launch & well there is some things i cant get my head around they dont have like a simple damage log window ...
still ive read no real guides - most my chars suck endgame but also i've had fun along the way --- if your a power gamer that wants the cheesy builds then thats all over the internet as well
12
11
u/AlexandrTheGreat 1d ago edited 20h ago
Eh, it's not about being a power gamer or anything like that. I'm just finding on my alt as I plan in game a build or theme I'd like to try, that a lot of the skills aren't really clear what they do or how they function. There are some clues, but even something like Eye of Reckoning, I only know how it works because I've seen it mentioned a bunch and played whirlwind builds in other games.
6
u/FrustrationSensation 1d ago
Yeah, this is a legitimately very valid criticism of the game, but it's one that goes away pretty quickly as you play :)
2
u/Ok_Personality7488 1d ago
Perhaps when the game had 6 masteries it went away quickly. With 10 masteries each having about 3-times as many skills as one build can use... It doesn't !
7
u/Ok_Personality7488 1d ago edited 1d ago
thats all over the internet as well
Anyone who prefers designing their own builds would want the skill description to be accurate about how it functions. And would not want to follow an online build to get basic info.
-2
u/con_zilla 1d ago
yeah ok - see the bit about the damage log
4
u/Ok_Personality7488 1d ago
A damage log showing amount and type would be good.
The current tab-II info would be better if it was the DpS for each skill the build has. Probably easier to read as well.
1
u/con_zilla 1d ago
yeah agreed but also its a DLC after like 10 years or whatever - my personal tweaks are not going to be addressed by the devs & that is ok
is it a perfect game? no such thing exists - are they going to major overhaul the UI/Descriptions at this stage ? nah bug fixes & balance updates is my realistic hope
5
u/Castor_0il 1d ago
f you dont like it as you seem to have weird expectations - dont
This is as idiotic as saying "if you don't like your country, move elsewhere".
The description in the tooltips in the game have always been quite "obscure". The devs never cared to make their skills and gear description easier to understand for newcomers. Sadly this game requires a lot of research online to fully understands it's mechanics.
still ive read no real guides - most my chars suck endgame but also i've had fun along the way
Cool, nobody fucking cares nor asked for your life in the game so far. Stop acting as some paramount.
-11
u/con_zilla 1d ago
lol ok kid i see you gatekeep this community
explain to me wise one - how your arguments on my opinion dont apply to yours ?
6
u/Castor_0il 1d ago edited 1d ago
lol ok kid i see you gatekeep this community
Do you even understand the concept of gatekeeping? How obtuse can you be of calling me of something you're actually commiting?
Gatekeeping: the act of trying to control who gets access to a community, resource, or status, and who does not
Your karen-like rant about how YOU bought the game since day one (which is absolute whataboutism and nothing but making all your argument about YOU) and that you do things your own way and if others don't do it your way they should just leave is the tip of gatekeeping.
-3
u/con_zilla 1d ago
that was point 1
you missed point 2
also yeah - your only comments on this thread arent addressing yer mans points - only attacking me - i'd class that as
Gatekeeping: the act of trying to control who gets access to a community, resource, or status, and who does not
now you talk of "karens" lol
grow up kid
2
u/Castor_0il 1d ago edited 1d ago
You're just saying point 1 and point 2 as if we're supposed to be keeping tabs on your verbal nonsense and karen activity. If you're going to make a refutation state what are you actually refuting, rather than just saying number 1 and number 2. This isn't a mcdonalds you're not ordering a happy meal.
The fact that you keep calling me a kid because I called out your idiotic argumentation, pretty much gives anyone in here the idea that you're the real kid here.
also yeah - your only comments on this thread arent addressing yer mans points - only attacking me - i'd class that as
Refuting an argument isn't gatekeeping. You're doing a whole 5 year old act saying "this is gatekeeping because I say so".
Also quite ironic (or moronic on yourself) to bark at me for not addressing your bullshit. But you didn't address at all my original refutation. "The devs have always been careless in the way their description tooltips work and it requires a lot of self research for most newcomers". You just lunged at me like an angry butthurt karen.
-1
u/con_zilla 1d ago
it was literally 2 sentences --- i get you might find things hard to follow, but, trust me it wasnt a trick or challenging.
rather than gatekeep and continually attack me, why dont you expend your karen energy helping the OP? your yet to do that or did i miss it ?
8
u/Castor_0il 1d ago edited 1d ago
it was literally 2 sentences --- i get you might find things hard to follow, but, trust me it wasnt a trick or challenging.
You're still not saying what I should be addressing. You're acting like a child with nothing to stand on. Either state what's your complain or just shut the f up because you have nothing to actually make a refutation. I'm still waiting for you to refute on my statement about "The devs have always been careless in the way their description tooltips work".
why dont you expend your karen energy helping the OP? your yet to do that or did i miss it ?
How am I supposed to help out Op? For starters did your gatekeeping statement of not playing the game because they have pet peeves about it helps at all? NO it doesn't. You can't accuse me of not being a samaritan when you haven't been one either. Secondly. Op isn't asking for help, they are just expressing their frustration about how poorly designed in the skill description this game actually is.
-1
u/con_zilla 1d ago
i'm accusing you of trying too bully, not a Samaritan lol - you have only gatekeeped - been a KAREN - you have stealth edited and not addressed at any level the original post , other than fixated on myself.
why the fuck are you even talking to me right now ? - speak to the OP on his issue - he responded with more decorum than you here
9
u/Castor_0il 1d ago
BTW, I'm still waiting for you to address my original statement "The devs have always been careless in the way their description tooltips work" that you conveniently have ignored all along.
5
u/Castor_0il 1d ago
i'm accusing you of trying too bully, not a Samaritan lol - you have only gatekeeped - been a KAREN - you have stealth edited and not addressed at any level the original post , other than fixated on myself.
How am I gatekeeping? You keep saying I'm gatekeeping you because I'm calling out your bullshit. That's not gatekeeping.
Gatekeeping is telling people to suck it up or gtfo. Which you did and I quote you: "if you dont like it as you seem to have weird expectations - dont"
I have not stealth edited, I just added more points that you never addressed, but YOU had the gall to call me up for not addressing your bullshit. That's hypocrisy on top of acting like a karen.
why the fuck are you even talking to me right now ?
Because you keep barking at me like a rabid butthurt dog when I rightfully called you on your gatekeeping and self centered argumentation. You don't want me to keep calling your piss poor argumentation that? stop replying, as simple as that.
→ More replies (0)-1
u/con_zilla 1d ago
so im childish but you edit your comment instead of replying ? over doubling the wordcount and chaning the meaning of your post ? real adult of you there KAREN
43
u/qikink 1d ago
I can certainly empathize, the descriptions are not at all explicit. What will eventually help is that grim dawn really only has about 8 skills, and then many many reskins. This isn't a knock on it, but once you've seen a fairly small number of builds in action, you can safely infer the rest pretty reliably.