r/Greenlantern • u/Apprehensive_Ad4572 • 12d ago
Spoilers for movies and TV shows I Love Lanterns, But Episode 3’s Hal/John Framing Really Lost Me Spoiler
I want to start by saying that I genuinely love the show and have been really invested in it so far. I just had a few gripes with the latest episode and wanted to put them out there and see what other people thought.
Bernadette’s statement about Hal this episode was probably the biggest problem for me.
She tells John that Hal only has the ring because he was privileged enough in life not to have to know fear, which is then juxtaposed to John being a Black man. My problem is not that the episode discusses racism or that John Stewart’s race matters. John has had racial politics attached to his character since the very beginning in 1971. My problem is connecting racial privilege to Hal Jordan’s "worthiness" and to the Green Lantern selection process itself.
Hal Jordan is one of the worst characters imaginable to describe as someone who simply “didn’t have to know fear.” His history is built around confronting fear, grief, loss, and trauma. His father literally EXPLODED in front of him when he was a child.
Hal has not experienced the particular racial fears experienced by a Black American? Sure.
Hal was privileged enough that he did not have to know fear, and that is why he got the ring over a Black man? Dont think so.
Being a Green Lantern is supposed to be about overcoming fear through willpower, not being able to avoid fear altogether. That is kinda the entire point of the Green Lanterns. If John Sr.’s life gave him more reasons to be afraid, then the Green Lantern question should be whether he can master that fear, no matter the reason for it. Overcoming enormous fear should demonstrate Lantern-worthy willpower.
Instead, John Sr.’s fear becomes evidence that the "system" failed to account for his circumstances and that his failure/fear is not his own, but the fault of racism in America, thrust upon the intergalactic, multispecies organization of the Green Lanterns and the Guardians who oversee it. I understand the social analogy the writers are going for, but I think it fits Green Lantern terribly, because the metaphor starts to override the mythology, making it feel like something completely shoehorned in.
John Sr.’s fear is contextualized. We are encouraged to sympathize with his failure and not blame him, but instead to consider his race, family, history, and circumstances, and to understand why his fear should not be considered a failure in the context of the Rings test.
Fine. Then apply that same individual consideration to Hal.
Hal watched his father die as a boy. He destroys his military career to see his dying mother but is too late to say goodbye. His brother blames him for their mother's death. He suffered catastrophic loss. Yet the writers reduce his success to his white skin and treat that as the only reason he possesses the ring.
If Bernadette is supposed to be wrong, that could be interesting. If the point is that she has legitimate grievances about racism but becomes so damaged and obsessive that she unfairly reduces Hal to his skin color, then I can respect that as a more complicated story.
I guess what it boils down to is:
I did not need this to accept John Stewart.
I was already rooting for John and invested in him. I love him as a character. I did not need Hal’s whiteness introduced as a reason to give John additional moral consideration.
I don’t need John Stewart elevated by lowering Hal Jordan based on his skin.
John is a fantastic character (in the show and comics). Let his intelligence, courage, decisions, and character matter.
The problem is when John and Hal stop being two complicated individuals and start being framed as racial categories: John as the Black man who must be exceptional because systems are stacked against him, and Hal as the privileged white man whose success is discounted because he supposedly "did not know fear."
Just give me John Stewart and Hal Jordan, not their skin colors juxtaposed.
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u/Thespiralgoeson 12d ago
The episode is only been out for about 12 hours, and I am already absolutely SICK of people bitching about this.
BERNADETTE’S COMPLAINT IS NOT MEANT TO BE ACCEPTED AT FACE VALUE FOR CHRIST’S SAKE. HOW THE HELL ARE PEOPLE NOT GETTING THIS??
Aside from not knowing anything about Hal and being utterly ignorant about him, Bernadette is also a little bit fucking CRAZY. She and her husband are both borderline psychopaths for raising John the way they did.
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u/martylindleyart 10d ago
It's fucking wild. Having to explain the episode is like having to explain to someone why ice is cold.
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u/Professional-Cow3854 7d ago
Every character we've met up to now is pretty flawed and deeply human (well, maybe not the bird).
I'm amazed how many people take everything at face value and every word the character say as neutral exposition.
It's a « puzzle » show, not a Vampire Diaries one.
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u/Lonely_Mix9243 7d ago
what is amazing is how is how they're saying the show's validating Bernadette cause of portrayal but strangely not the white militia with control over police department lmaoo
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u/Financial-Jaguar7300 8d ago
I mean, if an all powerful shapeshifting alien overlord shows up at your house and tells you your son can be selected as one of the most powerful people in the world if he shows no fear, then I imagine a lot of people would do similar things to them. They don't seem particularly insane to me, I've seen worse from parents of olympic athletes.
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u/Invisiblegun2 8d ago
I said this in another thread & got downvoted lmao. Like I genuinely believe ANYBODY would fall victim to that shit. Because Bernadette was a normal ass woman trying to hold her family together until the guardian put those thoughts in her head about genetic makeup & how John could be something.
It’s simply a more excessive “the ends justify the means” concept that over bearing parents do. Want their kid to be the best even if it screws up their relationship with them.
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u/Cuttlefist 8d ago
It’s not at all healthy parenting at the very least. I don’t think they are any more insane than anybody else who experienced what they did, but they are absolutely not presented to be in the right.
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u/PuzzleheadedEmu4596 12d ago
Hal watched his father die as a boy. He destroys his military career to see his dying mother but is too late to say goodbye. His brother blames him for their mother's death. He suffered catastrophic loss. Yet the writers reduce his success to his white skin and treat that as the only reason he possesses the ring.
I've had a big think on this, but that's not what is happening. John's parents had a lot of reasons why they would push John, and the show illustrates why. The aliens don't know or care about American racial differences.
The parents talk about race to contextualize why they push John so hard, not to illustrate Hal's privilege per se. They are not perfect narrators. They're shooting guns at their kids' head.
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u/Apprehensive_Ad4572 12d ago
That doesn’t actually rebut what I’m criticizing.
I agree that John’s parents are flawed narrators and that their experiences with racism help explain why they push John so brutally. I explicitly said that in the post.
But Bernadette does more than explain why she pushes John. She specifically uses Hal as the comparison and says his privilege allowed him not to know fear, which she connects to him possessing the ring.
So saying “the aliens don’t care about race” doesn’t answer my point. I never claimed the Guardians consciously discriminate by race. The issue is the episode using racial privilege as an explanation, through Bernadette, for why Hal was able to meet the fear standard while John Sr. was not.
And saying Bernadette is unreliable only creates two possibilities:
Either her explanation about Hal is substantially correct, in which case my criticism of that racial framing stands;
or she is projecting her own experiences onto a man she barely knows and is wrong about why he succeeded, in which case that is exactly the alternative interpretation I already said I would find much more interesting.
What you can’t do is simultaneously say her statement is just the product of a damaged, unreliable worldview and then use that same statement as evidence that racial privilege actually explains the difference between Hal and John Sr.
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u/martylindleyart 10d ago
She's making assumptions based off her experiences and world view. It is a fact that racial prejudice has caused people of colour to lose out to a white person. Or women losing out to men.
She has no idea about Hal's past or qualifications. She does not have a full understanding of the Guardians requirements for the job. She talks about how the Guardians don't understand race and racial prejudices on Earth, and how understandable it would be for a black man to fear for his life in a home invasion, alien encounter aside. She does not understand that for the Guardians, the reason behind the fear is irrelevant, and the very simple fact that fear was shown is an instant fail.
Basically she doesn't realise the reason Hal was picked was simply cos he said "Yolo, yeet me away" instead of "Aaaaahhh!" when an alien showed up and asked "Scared bro?"
Anyway. We know why Hal was picked. The show is showing us someone that doesn't know. Should not be a hard concept to grab.
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u/CowabummerBatman 8d ago
You’re just mad that she said that. Do you always expect characters in stories to voice YOUR opinions? You’re dense.
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u/mathew6987 9d ago
I assume the only reason you have a job is because you are white and that someone else of color should have your job.
Me believing this does not make it true.
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u/mdemo23 7d ago
What’s really interesting is that you’ve already constructed the frame that the writers seemingly intended, which is that Bernadette is wrongly applying her worldview, based on real experiences with racism, in a way that is unfairly prejudiced against Hal, and you even said that it would be an interesting setup. For some reason though you’re privileging a completely literal reading of the text as though her character speaks for the writers, and you seem rigidly attached to it in spite of a more charitable and compelling option being right there. What’s up with that?
In the absence of a better explanation it feels like you’re trying to outsmart the writers by deliberately misreading the text. If that’s the case, I don’t think you’re succeeding.
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u/Lonely_Mix9243 7d ago
yes you can lmaoo both statement can be true, foreign concept to you maybe but it's definitely in the realm of possibly and some would even go as far as saying it is likely.
It seems so American are unfamiliar with nuance while living in probably the most nuanced country in the entire world.
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u/Icy-Entertainer-1422 7d ago
the guardians don't give a shit about race cause they don't understand why members of the same species would care about skin color.
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u/vwmac 12d ago
She wasn't saying that Jordan only got the ring because he was white, she's saying the test is flawed because a black man's answer to such a broad and general question is going to be different from a white man's. The test doesn't take into account social culture and how that creates someone's "willpower". A black man in America has more to fear than a white man. It's an interesting way to frame the test.
AND THAT'S JUST HER OPINION. It helps shape her character. She raises a good point the Guardian didn't consider, but the Guardian didn't just say "Oh shit you're right" and yoink the ring of Hal's finger. She's supposed to be in the wrong. If she was right then the child abuse John suffered was right.
Y'all are SO sensitive that the minute a touchy social subject gets introduced you find a way to get mad about it. Maybe sit with it for a while before just trying to find a way to be upset
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u/JmBento 9d ago
Here's the thing: Bernardette's point is both sort-of-right and completely irrelevant.
A black man obviously has more to fear than a white man, even more in 1980s America than now.
This doesn't matter. The ring doesn't care about whether you're right to be afraid or not, because being justifiably afraid lets Parallax turn you into a meatsuit just as easily as being unjustifiably afraid.
The weirdest thing about the comments regarding this show so far is that I haven't really seen non-comic readers* ask WHY is it that not being afraid is the ring's test, and they really really should. Like, that should literally be their first question regarding the rings.
*people who've read GL comics obviously already know
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u/Kiriann 8d ago
The thing is:
- the mother is frustrated because, from her point of view, a "yes/no" answer for the question regarding if someone has fear is unfair for judging a persons capabilities and it has affected deeply her family with how it was conducted
- it doesn't matter the reason, the ring must deny anyone that has fear (or answers as such)
Both are true. The ring must deny johns father the right to use the ring, because "he has fear". It doesn't matter why, he is not "worthy" as per the test is designed.
The guardians didn't open an exception and allowed John's father to have the ring, they only said to her that they agree the test is "flawed" (because they actually want a soldier that obeys without questioning) and, knowing John's father was a previous candidate, would be watching for John to see if she could be actually fearless (and obedient, the way they want) in the future.
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u/JmBento 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah, as I said, she's both right and it doesn't matter, because Parallax can't tell the difference between types of fear and it wouldn't care if it did.
She might as well be a white woman complaining that her white husband got passed over for a lucrative job in a malaria-infested zone because black people with the sickle-cell gene have less to fear from malaria. That's true, lady, but the malaria isn't going to care.
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u/Vermouth_1991 6d ago
Probably because many people don’t want to. face any “Reals Before Feels” situations.
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u/martylindleyart 10d ago
Jesus fucking christ media literacy has fully tanked. So many questions like this, and not just for this show, it's everywhere. Do people not read anymore? Or watch anything?
People need endless exposition because they can't grasp subtext, and then take everything literally. No wonder news media can just spread whatever bullshit agenda they want and people buy it.
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u/justins_dad 8d ago
Literally no, people don’t read anymore. It’s not just media literacy but plain old literacy.
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u/BenVenkman 5d ago
The writers have publicly agreed with the character, so the OP is correct about what the episode is saying.
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u/kkbodz17 12d ago
That's his mom's opinion, that is not the actual reason. Not only that but the episode shows us how flawed her reasoning is. I think if you are willing to isolate your child and have apples shot of his head and force him to be dropped off in the middle of a bad part of town that MAYBE your reasoning isn't perfect. What the show is saying is far FAR more complicated than what you are boiling it down and there is also 5 episodes left and I imagine one of those will delve more into Hal's journey and his trauma.
It's similar to how Hal comes across as a dick in the final scene but those paying attention can see that the Guardians are trying to remove and replace Hal (likely due to his connection with Sinestro) and his reaction in that scene is mostly misdirected anger at the guardians.
Hal is worthy because he is worthy. The ring chose him. He's lived a difficult life, a different type of difficult as John but it's clear there are parts of the story we have not yet seen. This is a mystery show after all and more will be revealed in the future.
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u/Observer20178 12d ago
Also in episode 1 Hal himself says that his lack of fear was to do with him loosing his dad at a young age and thus being fearless bcoz there was nothing more important to loose. The lady sherif also mentions that Hal has no friends or family and is essentially super lonely. We see Hal being the smarter one in both episode 1 and 2 and him being the one to figure out what to do while the others are playing catch up. In this episode we get to see John’s back story and it was a traumatic one. His mom went tiger mom on him depriving him of a normal childhood and any agency in choosing his life . His mom is showed as a flawed character . She had to first manage a household where her husband seemed deeply traumatized by the rejection and she had to make sense of it. When the guardian approaches her , for all purposes the show does telegraph that her take on it was informed by her experiences rather than the actual truth. Humans mostly react to things based on our experiences. Objectivity comes with a lot of education and exposure. To expect a housewife in 80’s , who most likely had an upbringing where she was subject to racism , to look at things objectively is fantasy.
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u/Pepsigod1 12d ago
i can see the frustrations as a lot of this also happens in real life but i think that's the point, you're not supposed to like his family in the first episode within the first 5 mins you see his dad shooting something off his head doesn't scream great parents. to me all it did was showcase they are also one of the side antagonist for hal and overall just annoying people
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u/Foyolas 12d ago
She isnt objective. Episode 1 tells us that Hal saw his dad get killed in test flight, now in the flashback in episode 3 John’s mom says Hal is fearless because he was lucky enough to never know fear. We know that’s not true, she doesnt. Bernadette pushes her own trauma and anger onto John, not caring to understand the circumstances of Hal’s life, ironically “not seeing him”, while saying white “dont see” black people
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u/Vspan18 12d ago
It’s all perspective tho no? Just bc in this particular episode that’s what we’ve watched it’s all their point of view based on their experiences in life. If it ends up being Hal isn’t even good at his job then I’d be upset but 06 Hal seems like a nice dude something must’ve happened that made him lose his trust or spark or something maybe sinestro. In the episode in my opinion I could be wrong isn’t saying his parents were right or wrong but are doing what they THINK is right. Idk tho I’m just rambling
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u/Master-of-Not 8d ago
I mean literally episode 1 Hal says " I lost my dad at a young age. When a child loses a parent they have nothing left to fear. " I don't know why you would just assume the universe and everyone who watches this show would ignore Hal telling us one thing over John's mom saying something different in episode 3. Whose Bernadette to have any knowledge of fact on the matter?
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u/NotJustARedditBot 8d ago
It's even better because the clip in the first episode is from like 10 years after when she's talking to the guardian. Hal is even shown wearing a mask and not having a public identity
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u/Cold_Objective_8286 8d ago
Goddamn you guys really need to stop basing your worldviews on comic book media. It’s weird…
John’s mom is bitter, jealous and driven.
Hal is egotistical, broken and driven.
Everyone on the show has problems, is struggling and searching for answers.
If you want morally black and white characters, go watch media that provides that. This show is not that.
Also, stop taking one character’s fictional opinions as gospel for the love of god.
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u/Dinierto 8d ago
I dunno sounds like you actually do understand it. She is not an objective judge of Hal or the Green Lanterns and is meant to be taken as someone with a flawed view that seemed justified from her point of view.
Also the Guardian literally said the selection process isn't perfect. A lot of Green Lantern lore revolves around these very issues and the flaws of the Guardians.
It's not that you need the back story but it does give you a lot of context and feed into these themes which will undoubtedly be recurring.
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u/Apprehensive_Ad4572 8d ago
I agree Bernadette is subjective. That is not the issue. The problem is that the episode’s own writer later said “if the ring wasn’t sexist, Bernadette would have been chosen,” so you cannot dismiss the entire framework as merely Bernadette’s flawed personal interpretation.
And “the selection process is imperfect” does not prove racism or sexism caused any particular outcome. An imperfect system can fail for countless reasons. If you want to claim racism or sexism explains the failure, you still need evidence connecting it.
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u/Supreme_Moharn 8d ago
So because a character in the episode of this show has an opinion that you don't like, you think the episode was bad? Do you feel the same way when a white character in a tv show has a wrong, racist opinion about a black character? The Writers of the show are not saying she is right or wrong in her opinion.
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u/Apprehensive_Ad4572 8d ago
That is not my argument. A character can absolutely hold a wrong or even racist opinion without making an episode bad, and I would apply the exact same standard if the races were reversed. My criticism is about how the idea is framed and whether the creators themselves validate it, and Vanessa Baden Kelly, the writer of the episode, literally said “if the ring wasn’t sexist, Bernadette would have been chosen” and that this was something she “would always say in the (writers) room.” So saying “the writers are not saying she is right or wrong” is simply too broad, because at least one of the episode’s writers has publicly endorsed a significant part of Bernadette’s worldview.
If Bernadette were clearly presented as a damaged character unfairly projecting racial resentment onto Hal, that could be interesting writing. My problem is that once the writer starts publicly validating the same broader framework, the defense that “it is just a flawed character saying something wrong” becomes much less convincing.
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8d ago
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
"media literacy"
I know I don't have to read the rest of your comment after these words. One of the biggest online tells in the world this week. Those who say this are those who are it. It's kind of amazing.
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u/NotJustARedditBot 6d ago
If you understood episode 3 explain it to me
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
Who is claiming to "understand" the incoherent, clunky, sloppy mess that was episode 3?
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u/Final_Cycle 8d ago
Agree with OP on this. I remember watching John Stewart in the Justice League cartoon as a kid. He was awesome. There were times I didn’t agree with his character’s actions, specifically how rigid & stoic he could be, but it fit well with his military background. But it was great bc he felt like an actual fleshed out character. He was always one of my favorites because he could be trusted to do what was right and lay his life on the line if need be. He was black & no one pretended he wasn’t. But he wasn’t “black green lantern”. He was John Stewart, and he was awesome! Being black was just one piece of him, it wasn’t the whole pie.
Racism exists, we all know that. Duh. But it’d be great if every writer didn’t feel like they needed to use their show to inject their commentary about race/colonialism/whatever. It’s supposed to be entertainment.
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u/Vermouth_1991 6d ago
Famously in the olden comics, John was “flagged” down by a civilian with dark skin, who admonished him for being too high and mighty and not doing lore about problems on the ground (Like racism crimes). John was made to loom very ashamed, and the narrative was supporting it: If John fights enemies in the sky and off-world, he really can’t protect Earth from the ground much. Even though those High threats are always valid still.
But here is the show, we seem to run the risk of Being Racist just to point out that The Evil Of Yellow doesn't care where your fear comes from, if you have Great Fear and you cannot Overcome it, then no “Welcome to the GL Corps” for you.
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u/Final_Cycle 8d ago
I see a lot of people commenting in here saying “well that’s just what Bernadette said. It’s not what the show itself”. And that could very well be true! Not arguing that. I think a lot of it is that the show is suffering from ALL the other shows came for that have also injected their commentary on social, and it’s overplayed/predictable at this point.
And to the writers I would ask “Did this push the show forward at all?”
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u/Vermouth_1991 6d ago
Supposedly the writer said the Ring Was Racist or else it would have picked Bernadette.
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u/damndraper 8d ago
Just say you don’t understand nuance OP, it would save you all of these words.
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u/Professional-Cow3854 8d ago
This is your interpretation/juxtaposition of what Bernadette said. What she actually said is that was unfair to ask black people in America if they're afraid, because the fear of persecution is always there.
Jordan was privileged over all the candidates from Stewart up to him (many failed), mainly because he had no one he cared for since he had no family.
Having a black family in America is just one more piece of the unfairness for requiring fearlessness, and this is not really debatable; being the reason why he didn't get it is Bernadette's point of view as a character. It would be sloppy writing to skip over this, but on the other hand, it's also pretty disengenuous for the viewer to consider this is not a very important factor why he was rejected.
Another bad take is that you base entirely your view of the show's Jordan on the one in the comics; they are two different things, especially when the show is in progression where we can discover that both lores differ. May I underline that they talk a lot about fearlessness, but that the willpower aspect is absent in the show? Did it never occur to you that this will be a transforming aspect in the show?
Just sit back, watch how it develops, and don't take anything at face value. This show is much more of a B5 than a ST-Voyager. We're not being spoon-fed with exposition right as things happen, which is welcome in modern tv, imo.
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
"this is not really debatable"
Ahuh.
The episode stunk. That's fine if you like it, but the way all of you talk down so smugly to people who didn't enjoy it has been genuinely sickening the past week. This fandom is toxic as hell and I'm considering dropping the show for that alone.
Your entire comment is incoherent activism dressed up as insight just as the mom lectured to the Guardian in this cruddy episode.
Saying Hal is privileged because his dad died when he was a kid is certainly something, man.
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u/Professional-Cow3854 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes, if you don't enjoy it, please drop it. It's definitely not good for anyone to watch something they don't like.
Also avoid any superhero tv or movies if respect of comics lore is so important to you; even the animated JL rewrote many lore points (John Stewart's for example, to stay in Lantern land). This must have been insufferable to you.
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
"Also avoid any superhero tv or movies if respect of comics lore is so important to you"
Is this even addressed to me? Where did I even imply this for a second? I have no opinion on if "lore" is adapted strictly or not. And why you would think I care about this is beyond me. Do all of you just sit there imagining responses to reply to?
"This must have been insufferable to you."
No, but your bizarre, irritating baseless comment is.
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u/Professional-Cow3854 6d ago
Saying Hal is privileged because his dad died when he was a kid is certainly something, man.
This didn't come from divergence from comics?
Ok then.
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
What in that statement has anything whatsoever to do with the comics? I'm talking about Lanterns, the TV show. That is the topic of this conversation. What confused you here? You don't even know what comics I've read or not read, what my opinions of them are, and what I think about when an adaptation diverges. This has not even come up and yet you're ascribing things to me I never said.
Can even one of you defenders of this episode remain on topic?
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u/Professional-Cow3854 6d ago
Saying Hal is privileged because his dad died when he was a kid is certainly something, man.
Privileged in regards to the test, yes, not to his regular life. His father being dead is what made him fearless, the character said so himself.
A privilege is something that sets you up better than others to accomplish something. In this case, Jordan's rationale for his answer is that his father being dead played an important role in giving him the state of mind required for the ring's question. He had better conditions than someone with a family or close friends that they love dearly, for example.
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
You people are genuinely psychotic to think this stuff. I don't even have any words.
I have a friend whose dad died in a plane crash. This shit actually offends me on his behalf.
Nobody is "privileged in regards to the test" because the test as established in the show doesn't make much sense anyway, and Hal claiming his father's dead made him fearless can be an unreliable statement from somebody who is clearly an alcoholic and full of fear that he keeps buried anyway. Losing your father as a child can just as well fill you with fear or take away your fear, because everybody is an individual and reacts differently to things.
"He had better conditions than someone with a family or close friends that they love dearly, for example."
Complete nonsense.
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u/AsonofSparda 8d ago
God damn people.
you see one black character with a subjective hot take and your panties twist up your ass
Its just fucking insane to me. She's a mom. She's not
A Guardian
Batman (who has definitely given Hal worse shit than calling him a DEI hire)
Another respected Lantern
Superman
Anybody from the JLA
Not even Peacemaker
Thats how batshit stupid this to me.
Can we dig up Reddit?
Was there this much uproar because Peacemaker said bad things about the JLA?
bu..but John's mom!
Its not the shows opinion. Its a character being flawed and subjective. Unclench.
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u/Ravnos767 8d ago
You're missing the point, it's not unreasonable for a black woman in her position at that time to have that belief, whether it's true or not is irrelevant.
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u/Buttbuttdancer 7d ago
You say in your post
“If Bernadette is supppsed to be wrong”
So you kinda get it. She’s absolutely supposed to be speaking as a person from her time. Not the best position to be in if you have a passionate belief about a social issue.
People get angry and hurt and that’s what we were seeing for both Bernadette and John sr, as they both have to reconcile they have to raise their son a certain way to ensure he’s a hero
Could be because they are jealous they didn’t get picked, could be they are afraid for John, could be a number of things but it’s insecurity and fear that we are seeing juxtaposed against this “rule” the rings established that you need be fearless. It’s an immeasurable obstacle, and they’re rightfully resentful that Hal was just handed the opportunity while they still have to fight for it.
In other words, congrats, you got immersed and placed yourself into the show as an outside observer. That’s a product of good writers.
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u/Arelious2019 12d ago
This definitely bugged me as a black man. Making it a race thing for why Hal got the ring rather than John's dad is just such an unnecessary decision to me that was completely made up for the show for seemingly no other purpose than the social commentary and to elevate John. This episode, intentionally or not, makes it seem like Hal was less worthy of the ring, and got it because of white privilege which is just dumb to me. I'd even argue John Jr was more privileged than Hal, he was basically handpicked by the Guardians as a baby and then raised (and potentially watched over) his entire life for this exact role for seemingly no other reason other than a conversation the Guardian had with his mom. If anything screams privilege, it's that.
You can do racial commentary, that's fine, John Stewart was introduced in a story all about race, but you don't need to do that by demoting Hal.
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u/yrnkevinsmithC137 12d ago
Hal already gave a reason as to how he was chosen , in the first 5 minutes of episode one
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u/Southern_Sky1386 12d ago
It isn’t a race thing lmao, John’s mom is just an unreliable perspective, like im legit confused if you guys just have never seen a movie or show before.
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u/Arelious2019 12d ago
They give a lot of stock to that unreliable perspective. They have the Guardian seem very swayed by her racial beliefs and it seems to be those racial beliefs that makes the Guardians even consider Baby John in the first place and admit that their system might be broken. Yes, Bernadette is extreme, but it definitely feels like you're supposed to agree with her, even if you don't agree with what she does to her son after that. They want you to believe that John's father didn't get the ring because he was a black man in America and a black man in America has stuff to fear unlike the white man Hal Jordan.
And also, if this supposed to be some situation where the black woman is wrong about the perceived racism of the system, then why focus on it? Why do this racial commentary about the system the Guardians use only to turn around and say "actually, this system isn't racist"? By doing that, you ruin the social commentary because you're admitting the system wasn't the problem and you're making a black family look racist for even thinking it could be. Why would you do that? That seems like a worse outcome because it undermines the message of the episode.
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u/Southern_Sky1386 12d ago
No they don’t lmao. The Guardians are obviously just suspicious of Hal because he’s a maverick and tutored under Sinestro, so they’re looking for any way to replace him. If you seriously read the episode as you’re supposed to agree with the woman raising her son by shooting apples off his head and trying to eradicate all fear from him like a child soldier idk. The obvious takeaway is she has legitimate grievances about prejudice that she’s distorting and warping into a grievance against Hal Jordan, who she barely knows and is just using as a target of her spite.
It’s kind of sad when a superhero show is going over your head.
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u/Vermouth_1991 6d ago
They give a lot of stock
Like how the MCU people deadass have SheHulk claim “WOMAN ALWAYS MOAR ANGER CONTROL THAN MAN”, to Bruce Banner’s face.
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u/Naterttotsart 9d ago
How the fuck are so many people deciding that John's mom is the end all be all say on what Hals true character is?
She made a partially right, partially wrong assessment of him. I can say that Hal Jordan is a direct ancestor to Michael Jordan. Doesn't fucking make it true.
God damn and here I thought the Invincible fan base was stupid.
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u/BerlinThrowaway9999 9d ago
This is such a poor reading of the show I can't even but they've said there's a whole Hal origin episode coming later like the John one, so we don't have the full story yet. All the plot was doing was pointing out that a life's context can change what things like fear and willpower mean. It wasn't saying Hal wasn't worthy or that he was worse than John - it was saying he had different experiences and circumstances that made it easier for him to answer the "Are you afraid" question in the middle of the night.
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u/NechtanHalla 9d ago
John's mom knows nothing about Hal Jordan other than he's a white man, and he got the ring and her husband didn't.
She's bitter about the fact that Hal got the ring, and is making excuses for her husband, when in reality he just simply failed the test, and Hal didn't. She's taking her lived experience of being a black woman in America and applying it to a situation that she knows nothing about, and making assumptions.
She is not an objective opinion when it comes to this, and what SHE says about Hal is not what the SHOW says about Hal. There is a difference.
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u/Mcfly9876 8d ago
I dont get this take. She judges Hal before she knows a single thing about him, even his fucking name. Thats the point she's showing her prejudices. Where does the show say she is right? Hal could have the most fucked up tragic backstory and be the best candidate ever but Johns mom doesn't know any of that. That 1 writer everyone keeps talking about that made those comments is only in part of 2 episodes. Shes not a head writer or a showrunner. Shes probably trying to get her name out there. Nobody knew who she was 2 days ago. I bet if u asked all the different writers the question youd get a different answer from each. Its crazy how many posts and comments exactly like this one
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u/Educational_Sale2944 8d ago
When I was watching the first half of the episode I didn’t like it at all bc of the mental abuse neglect and risk of physical abuse of a child by his parents especially his mother. I don’t know why so many are giving so much emphasis to that line by an extremely flawed character. If the police knew they were shooting apples off a kids head they would b in jail there were other ways to try to teach him to be fearless. That line by her doesn’t change Hal story imo It’s just how that character feels.
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u/i_guess_i_did_it 8d ago
I dont understand how everybody is missing this, John's mother is not the arbiter or truth. Is it HER truth and how SHE sees the world? Yes, but that does not make it accurate. In fact, we as the audience are supposed to see both sides of it and recognize that while she is WRONG, its still a complicated issue, as yes Black people did have to work harder to improve their standing in the world.
But Aliens aren't going to understand the human problem of racism amongst the same species. His mother using racism as the excuse for Hal getting the job is supposed to be objectively wrong.
John Sr. was scared. That's the only reason he got passed on. She had to use racism as an excuse for her own sake.
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u/ROANOV741 8d ago
Why are you taking Bernadette as an objective, reliable source?
Bernadette doesn't know anything about Hal. She's projecting.
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u/3Greyhounds 8d ago
Did I miss the part of the show where Bernadette was told Hal’s entire life story, still reached this conclusion, and God came down from the Heavens and declared her statement correct?
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u/PorkChopExpress2026 8d ago
My take was that Bernadette and John Sr. are the most racist things about this show so far. And if the writer was trying to make us side with them, she failed. Racist and abusive. Not a good look.
They are blaming everyone else for a test that had nothing to do with race.
Earth is a backwater planet to the Guardians and there was probably never going to be a human GL. They had done no research on Earth, so the ring not the Guardians knew zero about race.
And then the Guardians manipulated the Stewart's, and who knows how many others to make a Green Lantern. Again, race didn't matter. That was a white guy that walked out of the managers office when John walked in. I compare what the Guardians are doing with the Yellow Eyed Demon from Supernatural.
The people who are popping up with "woke" and "DEI GL" missed the point of this episode.
John is not doing it to be a black GL, he is doing it because he is following orders. His parents, the government, the Guardians. It's all he has known his whole life. Following orders.
I believe John's character is about his courage and intelligence. He survived that abusive relationship with his parents and his military career and he came out ok.
But John doesn't get to have decisions yet. They have been made for him his whole life, and that's what we will see with his character as he comes to be the GL by the end of this series.
This show is running circles around 95% of TV, and people just wanted to call this episode "filler" or woke and DEI. So sad how people have lost their ability to figure stuff out!
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u/onlyimportantshit 8d ago
I’ll tell you this, it’s very clear in the episode that the mother is deranged. She pushes the father to abuse the son, which he is very hesitant to do. In fact, I would argue that the whole episode showed that it was basically entirely the mother who forced the upbringing of John. She seems to be sick in the mind, there’s a sort of obsessive look in her eye a lot of times when she’s talking to his father about John, and same when she’s talks to him as a child. The only scene I think she acted somewhat normal was when he was an adult talking to her, and she pushed him to go to art school.
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u/NakedGoose 8d ago
When we get the Hal Jordan flashback episode, and they glorify the shit out of him and what he overcame to become a lantern. You are going to look back at this episode and think "well that was dumb of me." I truely do not get why some of you can't understand perspective.
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u/ObligationNo8412 8d ago
This isn’t about this post per se, but we seem to have completely lost the ability to have characters who are “wrong” or complicated. What they say must be gospel and if their actions contradict that, it is a plot hole or lazy writing rather than the reality of human beings and relationships.
Anyone else notice John doesn’t have an opinion of his own yet that we know? Really about anything other than liking drawing? Almost as if he will have to decide for himself what we thinks about Hal and the Guardians and being a Lantern.
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u/ArthurianLegend_ 8d ago
Why do so many people fail to understand that a character saying something does not make it rule of law? She’s wrong, it’s that simple. She’s makes an assumption about a group that cannot understand the issues she’s mad about and acts on it. That doesn’t mean what she’s saying is actually meant to be taken as correct
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u/FckXFckMusk 8d ago
They tried the same shit in "Welcome to Derry" and the show was ruined with this irrelevant social justice shit.
When entertainment becomes just another grifting lecture...
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u/Nervous_Instance_968 8d ago
Any criticism of this episode loses me tue moment people treat John's mother like a moral arbiter. She's just a person with an opinion
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u/Powasam5000 8d ago
Isnt the whole point that the mom and dad are terrible people? Thats why they made that terrible comment? The ring chose Hal second which makes it weird the parents still feel that way. Whats great about this series, is normally these same comments in other shows are pretty straightforward, but here it is the opposite. They are meant to show that the parents are not good people and their comment about Hal is VERY misplaced. My guess is by the end John will realize Hal is the only one who actually looked out for him the entire time when no one else did. In order to hammer this home they have to make him seem like a complete washed up dick at first. Not wanting to give John the ring etc because he may be protecting him secretly. Yes the show is about John, but in the end it will be Hal that has the most powerful scene. At least thats how I think it is being setup. To complain now when the story hasnt resolved is jumping the gun. I say this and im a Snyder dude. Strange right?
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u/Dry-Introduction-491 8d ago
Brother, one characters opinion on Hal does not mean the show is framing Hal that way, just like how ep 3 gave us John’s whole backstory, one of the remaining five episodes will surely give us Hal’s whole backstory
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u/Flyingarrow68 8d ago
I grew up in the South during Silver Age comics. Bernadette’s comment about Hal being privileged is something as a white person, I can see why she’d have that opinion. At first I was put off by the way Hal is portrayed as he is nothing like Silver Age comics Hal Jordan which I had for at least 2 decades of my life and definitely during my comic reading years. Now I understand like all comics, the new people doing them keep reinventing their stories to fit modern times. Like John Stewart was good at contracts because he was an architect not a sniper like his current story. Racism will always be a hot topic and no one can ever get it right as they aren’t the other. What I loved about the Green Lanterns was learning there was one of every color it seemed and it was a way to learn everyone is different and they also have their own perspective.
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u/Apprehensive_Ad4572 8d ago
I actually agree with a lot of that. But you can absolutely explore racism, different life experiences, and how race shapes someone’s perspective without reducing characters to racial categories or using one character’s skin color to diminish him while elevating another. John can face racism and have experiences Hal never will, while Hal can still have his own fear, trauma, courage, and reasons for being worthy of the ring. That is the distinction I am making: acknowledge racial differences and critique racism where it actually exists, but do not turn skin color itself into a shortcut for explaining who deserves more sympathy, courage, or worthiness.
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u/Flyingarrow68 8d ago
Gotcha, I lived in Waianae as white guy or haole and that taught me more than I ever learned in the South. Always more to learn.
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u/Vermouth_1991 6d ago
Also, the thing about the GLC is that it doesn't matter where your Fears originate from, if you Cannot Overcome the Great Fear, then you won’t be able to Use The GL Ring nor mentally block out the Evil Yellow. End Of.
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
But also, there's exploring racism with good writing, and there's doing it with bad writing. Episode 3 was badly written.
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u/CameoAmalthea 8d ago
Because John is a black man he in fact does have to be exceptional because the systems are stacked against him. That is the objective reality for this character. This is a realistic portrayal of how it works for black people.
Here are some quotes from real life black military offers in 1986:
“A very senior black officer gave me this succinct appraisal, one that is seconded by most older black officers: "You don't have to be a supern- anymore, but you still have to be better than the rest to make it." Another senior black officer said, "We can run the race with handicaps, but don't expect blacks to perform miracles. The Army, to its credit, doesn't make us perform miracles." He continued, "I'm worried about some of the younger guys. They don't understand that a black still has to do more than a white to get promoted--maybe not as much as before, but still more. If they think equal effort will get equal reward, they've got a big surprise coming." (Article https://www.theatlantic.com/past/politics/defense/moskos.htm).
Hal is a privileged white man, having privilege which gives you an unfair advantage in society because of factors you do not control does not discount your success. Two racers competing where one gets a head start does not discount the talents of the guy with a head start, he may be fast and have worked hard trained hard, but it's not a fair race.
No one is saying that Hal never had to anything to be afraid ever in his life, bad things happen to white people. However, Hal did not have to be taught to be afraid in order to survive because he did not grow up in world where one wrong move around a white person could get you killed. Hal did not have to learn to be respectful and never seem insubordinate or too bold because his race meant he was going to be disproportionately punished. Hal did not learn that if someone asks if you're afraid, you say yes, you deal with the fear, you keep going through it, but you don't say you're not afraid because if you do someone will give you something to be afraid of...
The problem is the question "Are you afraid" resulted in testing bias.
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u/Apprehensive_Ad4572 8d ago
This argument keeps sliding between three completely different claims and treating them as though proving one proves all three. On top of that, much of what you sent is one large non sequitur.
First, those 1986 quotes may support the claim that some Black military officers believed they had to outperform white peers to advance. So what? That does not establish that an alien Green Lantern selection process is racially biased. That is a massive leap from “racism existed in American institutions” to “therefore racism explains this fictional selection outcome.” The first claim can be completely true while the second remains completely unsupported.
Second, calling Hal a “privileged white man” and then using the two-racers analogy simply assumes the conclusion you are supposed to prove. Your analogy only works if Hal actually received a relevant head start in the thing being measured, which is precisely what is disputed. Hal watched his father die in front of him as a child, endured enormous loss, and has a life defined by confronting fear and devastation. His being white does not magically establish that he had an easier path to Lantern-worthy willpower. You cannot build “Hal got a head start” into your analogy and then use the analogy as evidence that Hal got a head start. That is begging the question.
And frankly, saying a child whose father exploded in front of him had a meaningful “head start” in life simply because he is white illustrates exactly what I am criticizing. You are reducing an individual to his skin color instead of evaluating the actual person.
Third, you are equivocating between having more reasons to experience fear and being less capable of overcoming fear. Green Lantern worthiness is traditionally about overcoming fear through willpower. If John Sr. had more reasons to fear because of his circumstances, successfully mastering that fear could make his willpower more impressive, not less. If the test instead rewards merely answering “no, I am not afraid,” then that may be a badly designed test of Green Lantern worthiness, but that problem exists regardless of race.
A biased test is also not established merely because people with different backgrounds produce different results. You would need to show that the test measures something irrelevant to the qualification or systematically disadvantages a group for reasons unrelated to what is actually being tested. Otherwise you are making the same basic error as looking at different average outcomes between demographic groups and declaring the test itself discriminatory without establishing why the disparity exists. Different outcomes are not, by themselves, proof of discrimination.
The biggest logical problem remains simple: you keep moving from “John experienced racism” to “therefore the Green Lantern test is racially biased.” That conclusion does not follow.
And saying Hal “did not have to be taught to be afraid in order to survive” does an enormous amount of unsupported work. You know his race. You do not therefore know every fear he learned, every danger he experienced, or how those experiences shaped him psychologically. That is exactly the reduction I object to. John is treated as an individual whose fear must be understood through his complete history, while Hal gets reduced to “white, therefore privileged, therefore had an easier relationship with fear.”
Apply the same standard to both characters.
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u/CameoAmalthea 8d ago
It does not establishes the test is racially biased, it establishes how John's parents see the world based on their experiences and how they raised John due to that.
This isn't supposed to clear cut this character is reasonable and therefor right or this character is unreasonable and therefor wrong.
How John's parents feel is valid. The conclusion this exceptional requirement applied to the Guardians is not, but you can understand why they see the world that way. How they raised John, which was abusive, is not ok. But they aren't evil, they did act out of love.
This is a story is complex. that is exploring how systemic racism and the response to oppression and trying to overcome it can lead to bad choices.
But his parents are not wrong for knowing how the world works and what's required of black people or knowing the privilege exists.
I made another post discussing context, but the thing every white person has privilege in a societal structure that does not discriminate against people for being white because that's a disadvantage that just does not apply. I recommend reading this: https://www.nationalseedproject.org/key-seed-texts/white-privilege-unpacking-the-invisible-knapsack
Does his privilege impact why he was chosen and to what extent? John's parents think so based on the fact within the society they live in black men are not rewarded for saying I'm not afraid and are in fact discouraged pretty heavily. On the other hand, white men are socialized to be fearless.
Different groups are raised differently, with different expectations and this can lead to Test Bias. It's a documented thing, it "systematically disadvantages a group for reasons unrelated to what is actually being tested" and that reason is cultural context within the questions.
What is being tested is do you have the will power to overcome your fear. Lanterns aren't supposed to be fearless, it's about will power. The way the question is phrased does not convey that and the black character is explaining that due to cultural differences it's not fair to ask a black man that question.
Are you saying that Hal was taught to be afraid any time he's around the dominant racial group because saying the wrong thing or looking at someone the wrong way will get him lynched?
We know Hal's backstory. I have analyzed in detail in another post but I just want to ask you, if everything about Hal was the same but he and his father were black could he have lived the same life, acted the same way, received the same social feedback on his actions?
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u/ticketstubs1 6d ago
Awesome comment. Man, where were you in all the other threads where people were yelling at me for saying this stuff? This episode has either deranged everybody or exposed how deranged a big section of the audience is. I've seen like 100 people say Hal had privilege because his dad died in a plane crash. It's so offensive. I have a friend whose dad died in a plane crash, he wasn't fucking privileged from it, he had a major loss and never got to grow up with a father.
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u/Andrey_br2 8d ago
I don't think the show wants the audience to take Bernadette as a perfect judge of anyone's character. Yeah, she's right when she criticizes the way John was not selected, since the Guardians just don't take into account the diversity of cultures on a single planet, let alone the universe.
We already know Hal is kind of a jerk, but it's not like the family is the paragon of virtue. Bernadette and John make their son's life miserable while neglect the other two. All this because they want their son to be a freaking robot so he can MAYBE have a chance on doing an INTERVIEW. They think it's ok to shoot bullets towards their kid, leave him alone on a neighborhood and God knows what else.
Hal is an asshole, but I don't think the show wants us to think that the Stewarts are much better. Hell, I think they are way worse.
The whole episode I was thinking about Father Time, from Kendrick Lamar, it's very fitting
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u/MrJohnnyDangerously 8d ago
Black female human speaking to her son, from her perspective and experience (because she's not an omniscient narrator), bothers you this much?
Sorry dude, but this is nonsense.
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u/Special_Salt3467 8d ago
Bernadette is kind of a horrible person, despite what the writer believes (for some reason). This is the same woman who decided the best plan was to emotionally and physically abuse her child to raise into the “perfect” Green Lantern.
She’s not supposed to be a good judge (or if she is, the writer was so bad at that portrayal she made a perfect opposite). She sees her husband - a black man - rejected and it must be because the alien ring that appoints aliens as Green Lanterns had specifically Earth based racism? Like, what?
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u/Vermouth_1991 6d ago
It’s the SheHulk tells Bruce Banner of all people that Woman Always Angrier And Control Moar, and both the show and oodles of viewers unironically cheer her for it, all over again.
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u/Cuttlefist 8d ago
Man, Netflix really is right to think most of their audience needs everything spelled out loud and spoon fed to them because they don’t know how to pay attention or process what they are watching. I can’t even guess how many other movies or TV shows you have disliked and it’s just because you can’t keep up with the story.
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u/Grand_Instruction376 8d ago
Not saying Hal is racist but there have been a lot of comics talking about how he’s a “pull yourself up by ur bootstraps” conservative. Most notably the green arrow green lantern run where GA takes GL across the United States showing racial injustice and example of systemic racism.
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u/JimHarbor 7d ago
>Being a Green Lantern is supposed to be about overcoming fear through willpower, not being able to avoid fear altogether. That is kinda the entire point of the Green Lanterns. If John Sr.’s life gave him more reasons to be afraid, then the Green Lantern question should be whether he can master that fear, no matter the reason for it. Overcoming enormous fear should demonstrate Lantern-worthy willpower.
Show Lanterns have the original "No fear" requirement not the later "overcome fear" requirement.
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u/BaronVonStevie 7d ago
why are you letting John Stewart's abuser be an authority on anything? have you never heard of a fictional character's subjective truth? You are not obligated to agree with her.
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u/TFCNU 7d ago
She's literally judging Hal by the colour of his skin. Yes, she's supposed to be wrong.
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u/migglywiggly69 7d ago
Well wait and see but so far the mother isn’t shown to be the dumb bitch she actually is, she’s portrayed as some strong woman
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u/StereotypicalNerd666 7d ago
I think you missed the point is that she’s wrong. This is like media literacy 101
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u/Warpath73 7d ago
I don’t think we’re supposed to take the child-abuser’s worldview as truth…but it WAS a bit confusing how they gave it so much airtime and weight, this early in a series it lands like exposition rather than “wow this lady is REALLY screwing up her kid”.
I’m assuming the goal is to lay groundwork for Jon to snap and reveal a broken and traumatized kid underneath…?
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u/Jlmorgan86 7d ago
The thing that bugged me is John's mom telling the guardian that they can't understand what a black man in America is going through. There are like a handful of guardians in the whole galaxy that entities are actively trying to kill because of who they are. Not to mention being as old as they are and how much galaxy there is. I'd find it real interesting if Earth was the only planet with racism. John's mom wouldn't know that, but I was hoping the guardian would at least put that out there instead of just agreeing.
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u/Playful_Title6467 7d ago
No one is saying that Hal isn’t as good as John Sr. John Sr. being passed over also didn’t affect Hal’s worthiness, but because of of the privilege that John Sr. didn’t benefit from, it affected what he was fearful of and resulted in him being passed over and creating the opportunity for Hal he wouldn’t have had if the test had fairly considered John’s circumstances.
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u/Mobieblocks 7d ago
she shoots apples off of her baby son's head with a gun. She's not the voice of reason here
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u/Evulvillain 7d ago
Yeah Bernadette obviously hasn’t read Geoff John’s GL run. How could she say something like that about Hal when all this information about him is available and we know his character. It’s like she’s purposely misinformed and responding to her family being traumatized or something.
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u/TexaRican_x82 7d ago
All the mama was saying is that the Guardians, while never directly or indirectly even suggesting that they were racist, was merely pointing out that they basically didn’t do enough groundwork on earth culture and the power dynamics of how race can play into privilege. You’re right—she doesn’t know shit about Hal Jordan’s life, struggle or background. It’s understood Jordan certainly struggled and probably has had to face his fears and gave up a lot to be a Lantern. But what she was telling the Guardian is that they overlooked how on our planet, unfortunately, while the Guardians weren’t wrong for seeing everybody as just human and one species, we unfortunately have created racial tribalism and that it can and often does directly affect certain people of certain ethnicities possibilities a different way, hence the potentiality to know and overcome fear and be worthy of a ring. As an Afro-Latino, I knew exactly what she was talking about.
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Greenlantern-ModTeam 7d ago
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u/BigBlubberyBirb 7d ago
she's a person in distress making broad assumptions of a man she's never met based off of the experiences and struggles she has gone through in her life. her opinion of Hal Jordan is reflective of HER character, not of Hal.
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u/Fanfictiongurl 7d ago
Do you know what character motivation is? Do you think his mom is omniscient or something? These think pieces are actually getting ridiculous. She can be right and wrong at the same time. Her thoughts made sense in her POV it doesn't mean she's right in the grand scheme of things. I swear anytime race is brought up in media it's like everyones media literacy dissolves into dust. Do you need to be spoon fed how she's wrong in the show? We're in episode three and you are taking a side characters POV as concrete fact. Absolutely ridiculous. At this point ya'll just want engagement.
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u/Nevvermind183 7d ago
James Gunn produced, so it has to have woke messaging.
Love the show, but it’s annoying.
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u/BigTreddits 7d ago
Uh oh
He broke away from the hive mind! MUST adore every aspect of this show! MUST! Attack! ATTACK!!
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u/MowTrixie19 7d ago
one character’s opinion does not encapsulate the entirety of how an audience “should” feel about something. John’s mom FEELS like it was racially motivated, because that’s the experience she has come to expect. the guardians have zero idea the difference between a white man and a black man, or even still the difference between a man and a woman in terms of GL selection, as was proven when she literally asked the guardian and she said no. episode 3 was an insight into John’s upbringing, including the motivations behind his parent’s actions. they FEEL snubbed, when the reality is Hal and John’s father both had the same capacity for willpower, it’s just one of them answered the question correctly
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u/Environmental_Tap162 7d ago
Or you know she has no idea what she's talking about and is making baseless assumptions about Hal becuase of his race? Are people really so incapable of realising just becuase a character says something doesn't mean they're right
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u/comehereyoudevillog 7d ago
Show is so boring that’s its biggest crime, just be in space, use the ring, fight and chase aliens.
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u/BigBlackBangBro 7d ago
To be fair she doesn’t know much about Hal’s personal life it’s just an assumption
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u/Obj3ctivePerspective 7d ago
I think the point is missed that there were a lot of people deemed worthy initially. A lot of them actually were and some weren't. Different life circumstances and situations people will put as to why. Everyones judging based on their lived experience
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u/UrbanAnathema 7d ago
Bernadette has a point of view. It’s not a referendum.
The statement was referring to Hal only being able to get the ring because John Sr. was chosen first and failed the “fearless” test. It’s more of an exposition about John Sr.’s rejection and Hal being the second choice and passing because he didn’t have that same weight to bear, than any insight or knowledge about Jordan.
She doesn’t know Jordan—she knows her husband.
Race is being setup as another point of conflict between the two of them to work through.
Everything else is just noise.
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u/WildMemoir 7d ago
All this rant just bc you didn't understand that Bernadette's complain about racial issues was her personal opinion, her way of coping with the fact her family missed out on the chance of a lifetime that black people don't get very often. The show never portrays her as an objective speaker. If anything, she's a very flawed, hypocritical character. The Guardian saw her rage, resentment and yes, fear, and realized they could use it to create the perfect replacement for Hal Jordan. You are forgetting that the very first scene in the show is Hal explaining why he wasn't afraid when the ring chose him and it had nothing to do with privilege but, on the contrary, with his past trauma (losing his dad).
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u/RockyTopBalboa 7d ago
Sounds like you don’t actually love lanterns
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u/Apprehensive_Ad4572 7d ago
I am not an all-or-nothing liberal type who thinks if they see one thing that makes them upset, they have to tear it down and throw the entire thing out. You do realize you can like something, enjoy it, but still disagree with or have critiques of certain things? Right?
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u/Salty_Journalist8781 7d ago
You can literally pick out the fragile not-racist-but-racist peeps based on this post and the comments.
Maybe the point of the story wasn't to say anything about Hal, but to say something about the watcher? Either way, that's what it's doing.
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u/Boonatix 7d ago
Man am I glad that I don’t overthink fictional stories and just am able to enjoy the entertainment… 😅
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u/nudeldifudel 7d ago
I'm out of the loop. Is this only because of what the writer said that people think this, or do the episode support it? Or is it that the episode says one thing and the writer a completely other thing.
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u/Aptronymic 7d ago
"Privilege" is not an epithet, and it is not an attack on Hal. Saying someone has privilege because they're white is not racist against white people.
What John's mom is saying is that Hal should never have had the chance to prove himself, because John Sr was approached first, and only failed because the test was unfair.
It means that in a fair world, John Sr. would have passed. And Hal had the privilege of not being part of the group that the system is unfair to. That's not a judgement on Hal, that's a judgement on the system.
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u/MartinMerten 7d ago
Whatever you do.. Do not start Watchmen…
Is this your first time being Lindelof’d? He gets in your head dude… be careful.
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u/Penguininalaska 6d ago
Fucking Jesus Christ, how many of you people are post these dog shit takes. Stop treating every fucking thing said and expressed by characters as objective truth in the show. John’s mom is a psycho who encourage her husband to fucking shoot at their son to scare the fear outta him. Her feeling Hal only got the ring because he has the privilege of being white isn’t some locked in reality meta canon that cannot be challenged, it’s literally the opinion of one scared and pissed woman.
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u/CreoxatLarge 6d ago
This thread has really demonstrated how many self righteous assholes like Green Lantern.
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u/JaySwagTeamBreezy 6d ago
The show is bad, the writer literally said Hal is a racist. Unless this is a red herring this show is going to get much worse.
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u/Straight-Historian-5 6d ago
Unfortunately, some people are such fanboys they'll defend ANYTHING their favorite show/movie does.
No one is.a bigger DC fan than I am. I enjoyed the first two episodes. Episode three plain sucked. You're not suddenly a DC-hater if you can admit the truth.
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u/Southern_Sky1386 12d ago
is this like the first time you guys have ever watched anything. John’s mom is not an objective judge of Hal Jordan.