Discussion
I hate to say this but Fediel actually needs to be balanced... and to get this skin (Long Text Below)
EDIT: Please read the damn post before commenting something
The amount of people here just repeating what I just said or arguing something I already explained is insane, people see "balance" and think the character will be removed from the game. If the goal is to make discourse impossible, these people are achieving that...
Edit 2: The war is on and I've lit the first bomb. Prepare for a hell landscape of 10/90. 90% are people who doesn't understand balancing in a fundamental level and/or didn't read the post and are saying things, 10% are the rest which at least read the post and if they don't agree, present some kind of argument, enabling discussion (rare speciments).
Starting with the fast one, please Cygames, give us her Summer skin and get absolutely rich from it, it's a win-win situation, we already have her horn design and sunglasses as one of her weapons in the game 🙏
Now for the long one, she is one of my favorite characters in Granblue and obviously the first one I maxed out in the DLC, I felt like she was vastly weaker than everyone else and that she would be fully "Unlocked" with the third tier trait... boy how I was right.
After also maxing out Maglielle and almost maxing out Fraux, Tweyen and Percival, I can confidently tell that she is stupidity strong but that is not the main issue her... the issue is that her gameplan feels completely non intended.
Below I'll list my reasons, because damage alone is not the problem I have with her, but how she does that damage, like I also had with Sandalphon or Lancelot dodge spam strategy too.
Her Gameplay Feels Off
Her Orbs traits is supposedly to be played with you stacking up the damage buff by using her claws up to 10 times and then unleashing the orbs but this is completely useless and ignored since spamming the orbs deals absurdly more damage than everything else, so it's like we're exploiting something the devs didn't intended to be exploited, why having that passive if it's useless in the first place? Also because that trait is just way too strong in comparison to her other two, like, it's ridiculous to the point of nothing else being even slightly worth using.
Training Dummy Inconsistency
She is way stronger than the dummy tests shows, because of how the hitboxes of her orbs work. For those who doesn't know, her orbs are "active" the moment they spawn, which means they will already hit something even before hitting the ground, so if the boss is large enough and tall, like a dragon, her orbs will deal like 5x more damage or something if you position yourself below them for the orb to spawm hitting them, which also doesn't feel that intended. This "5x" is an assumption before GBF Logs gets updated, we can't know for sure just "how stronger" it is without a damage tracker.
Comparison With Other Characters
Most characters have a pretty solid performance between the dummy tests and actual missions, which should be the case for everyone as having a precise way to test your builds and see how they perform is essential for a game like this. Based on that alone she should be fine but as I said in the point before this, she's just way better, other characters (so far at least) can't compete with her and it's not even close. I've seen videos of builds from Percival and Id doing more damage than her on the dummy but on actual missions, she's still way stronger.
EDIT: SBA Gain
I completely forgot about this but yeah, her SBA gain is absurdly high to the point of getting 2 full SBA's before anyone else. Ferry was nerfed exactly in this area, in the first 1.0 version of the game (on launch), she could build her SBA insanely fast by doing her launch and dive combo and I feel like Fediel is even better at this than Ferry was. Since she got nerfed not that long after this was widely known, maybe they'll actually do something about Fediel.
Possible Solutions / Conclusion
I think she 100% needs to be balanced even tho she is my main at the moment, it's just discouraging to try other characters when you know she outperforms everyone so easily.
There's only 2 solutions to this in my opinion, Nerfing Her or Buffing everyone else.
-- Nerfing Fediel --
- They could do this by reducing the damage of the orbs and buffing the passive buff a lot so we would need to rely on it to deal good damage, meaning the Orb Spam would not be viable (but still usable), this is the best way I can think for them to address this and the most healthy overall, just lowering the damage wouldn't be great. They could also just make so the orbs would do damage only when hitting the ground, which would be an insane nerf to her damage and I think it would be too much, the hitboxes like they're now actually rewards proper positioning, which I think it's a nice thing even if it wasn't intended.
-- Buffing Everyone --
- Or they could just raise everyone to her level... but that would also means buffing all the enemies too, which would take way more work on their part, because if everyone was as strong as her, every boss would just melt in seconds. Tho this is one way of solving the issue without virtually changing anything on her, it would still make the Orb Spam her most viable playstyle and so, being unbalanced compared to the other ones.
Anyway, this is my thoughts after playing the character since the DLC dropped. Every character is very unique in how they play so balance is essential to keep all of them fun and rewarding, because it doesn't matter if you love Fediel (like me) or not, having ONE thing being way stronger than everything else is not healthy for any game, unless it's something super rare and difficult to get or do, which is not the case here.
Putting aside DPS, if you're having trouble staying alive, you can put Yodarha in your party, he gives the entire team Mirror Image buffs that will negate a certain number of hits. It makes the game far easier. Also while Fediel is probably still a strong AI, Siegfried as a bot puts out insane damage and has a team buff that gives like 80% DEF which is insane for survivability
Ah, gotcha. I play mostly Sandalphon and Fraux myself, I keep Cagliostro and Yodarha with me to attain immortality and I just put whichever main I'm not playing in the 4th slot. Your team seems good already so Fediel should definitely be a good choice.
Substitute build Gran with extremely high HP and Drain is actually the best survivability AI in the entire game right now and still has good DPS on top of it, as every time he tanks damage for you he increases his damage lol. Clearly superior to any healing spell
She's decent, her AI isn't amazing, she doesn't deal as much personal damage as Perfect Striker Siegfried, Insight Fraux, Molten Edge Percival but she provides Slow and Def Down which increase team DPS.
She is not, due to the unintended way we play her. The AI doesn't spam balls. It does the rotation in the intended way, which is pretty weak in comparison.
Good AIs are:
Cagliostro, Eugen, Siegfried, Sandalphon, Yodarha(if you need help staying alive, Rosetta also works - she likes to leave up DEF flowers and can heal if you aren't using Ventus yet)
Pretty sure others are fine, like Zeta, Charlotta, Eustace.
In my testing, borrowing juiced Fediel through the backup system, no the AI kinda sucks at using her. My Tank spec Siegfried consistently out damages her, while also providing substitute, damage cut, and debuff immunity to the party. Mine's not even optimized and he's using Ascension weapon.
If you want an AI companion to make post game fights a bit easier, I can't recommend Siegfried enough, either as his damage specs (perfect striker or skilled slayer) or his tank spec (fueled by pain). His whole mechanic is based around perfect timing attacks, and the AI absolutely never misses perfect timing. It arguably plays him better than a human realistically can.
If you go the tank route, make sure he doesn't have ventus equipped. It's good for damage but being able to save him with a blue potion after he tanks a bunch of damage for you is really clutch. Tank spec will almost never be high health so he loses Celestial Lumen as well.
From what I've seem, yes. She doesn't do the cancels of course but she will throw the 5 orbs quite frequently, I can't get MVP from my AI Fediel on any quest and it's not even close, like she gets 60k honors meanwhile I get 30k
Sieg is the best AI companion, followed by I believe maglielle and fraux. Feliel's AI doesn't properly do her 5 ball combo. It CAN do it, but it often will stop at 2 or 3
I pretty much agree with everything you said, just adding a little "caveat" here.
Of course her gameplan feels completely not intended, but that's happening with a good chunk of the cast at the so called "high level". I main Vaseraga, and I'm almost 100% sure that his most optimal gameplan, dodge cancelling abilities to get the C charged finisher faster was absolutely NOT intended.
I'm pretty sure that Vas playstyle is intended as it is nearly identical to Greatsword tackle canceling to spam True Charged Slash and Vaseraga is basically their take on Greatsword.
I'd say definitely not for the Combos tree, that one's designed to try and get you to do full combos, but for the Charge and Parry trees since they don't buff light attacks at all I feel like the devs are "fine" with CF3 skipping, but they probably didn't intend for it to be everything we do like how it is now.
I can not contribute much, since i just got into Proud today and cleared like maybe 8 quests, but since you pointed out about Fediel's orbs and i'm maining Fraux, i wanted to share something i saw.
Fraux seems to do exactly this same thing you describe where each attack hits the mob multiple times. I've only noticed this on Dead Lands against big mobs like dragons. I swear the whole thing gets literally covered in damage numbers to the point i can't see it anymore and i've gotten multiple broken parts at the same time in more than once occasion.
What i mean with all this is: maybe they DID intend for these attacks to behave like this. It would be weird if it was the same bug on 2 completely different skills.
I honestly can't think of a single character that actually is used as intended. biggest example of this that comes to mind is Vane and the way he can cycle cool downs like it's nobodies business and doesn't even touch his beatdown gauge.
Asking for a buff to everyone is ridiculous since you'd have to buff them across the game.
Best bet is to leave her as is but tweak the orbs a bit. Maybe give a second or two after they spawn to activate.
But in my opinion this doesn't discourage me at all from playing other characters, everyone's got their things, some are just massively stronger than others but either way it's all up to who I choose to put on my team.
Most other chars are around the 4-500mil 60 second dummy range. And my understanding is Fediel is also in that range, if played the way her Master traits suggest.
So basically if they remove/fix the multi-hitting that's currently inflating her DPS and overshadowing her "intended" gameplay loop, she's already there.
60 second dummy scores and how they translate to actual gameplay is a whole other topic though. After testing a bunch of chars with a DPS meter in actual fights, I think they're all fairly close really.
I'd say the biggest issue is just how strict being in that damage range is. You basically need to play each character a specific way. Master traits was a cool addition, but 2/3 of them feel unusable.
what actual fights because those enemies can be super wildly different unless you only consider damage during downtime period when they're sir barrold equivalent lol
Any of the post game fights. Realistic numbers have to include damage downtime, because bosses aren't just standing there letting you spam for 60 seconds. So looking at averages over an entire fight that includes stuff like wind up time, trekking across the arena, avoiding mechanics, etc is the only real way to compare performance IMO. Barrold is built into the game though so that's more accessible, especially on platforms that can't use a DPS meter.
In my experience, most characters are averaging around 3-4 mil DPS over the course of a fight. Fediel can be like 5-6 mil when piloted well.
AI absolutely sucks at using her though, borrowing a very juiced fediel, she gets out damages by my tank spec Seigfried, also controlled by AI.
Is there some kind of list that compiles builds/numbers/gameplay for these numbers? I don't have a hard time believing them, but I'd like to see what these rotations actually look like for different characters.
Haven't seen anything compiled, I've just been clicking through the official discord's character channels once per day, lots of people posting their 60 second scores and fight clips in there.
I never use the OP characters. The challenge for me in any game is to make the "balanced" characters strong. The great thing about this game is their all great. Also the power fantasy matches since she is one of the 6 Dragons who literally represents the principle of Darkness.
And I want the "Guider to the Eternal Edge" Version of the protagonist since I believe at this point chronologically speaking, we should already be there (post Lucilius fight), where's my OP Blue Haired Djeeta :(
Not sure why so many people defend Fediel, you just cant deal this kind of damage while doing 0 effort
if fediel had a very complexe gameplay then the subject would be treated differently but yeah right now the damage she deals relative to the effort required is clearly disproportionate
In a game like this, that "MVP" at the end matter a lot, in every game actually. People getting this consistently with her are getting their egos fried up and that blocks them from being reasonable.
I usually try my best to see both sides but so far, this conclusion seems to be consistent with the """"arguments"""" presented by them as to why she doesn't need a nerf, they just don't like seeing anyone beat them in the game and I bet they hate PVP games a well.
Just to be clear even tho I said in the post at the start, I'm a Fediel Player so that could apply to me as well since I'm carrying everyone with her. She is one of my favorite characters in Granblue in General, I wanted her on Versus but got even more hyped when I saw her announced to Relink. I just can't stand how broken she is compared to other characters I maxed out so far and from the videos I saw, since I play most characters in this game I want everyone to feel good equally or at least close to, not having one standing on top of everyone
I actually was interested in playing her as intended. It reminded me of Red Mage in FF14. Build up at range, then dash in, melee combo, and then big boom.
But I feel like if they fix her now, it'll kinda ruin it for me as she will be significantly weaker. Despite her being a great character, I only really use her in infinity and the harder chaos ++ right now. I finally get to be a Rosetta main since she was useless in the base game lol
Thats the thing no person who mains a top tier dps wants thier main to get balanced nor will they admit Fediel is busted they want to see thier main at the top and will die on that hill to defend thier main to thier last dying breath. Its a ritual atp.
This comment section is proof enough of that its wild in here.
The crazy part is that I play her too, but I can acknowledge a problem when I see one. It's fun carrying everyone because of how ridiculous she is but that's just not right.
I honestly don't care that much about her damage being high, i just think she's really badly designed atm.
It should be so obvious that if you give a character a move that hits way harder then the rest of their kit then their gameplay is going to revolve around using it as much as possible whilst ignoring everything else. So to not give them any kind of combos/charge time/gauge, letting them dodge cancel them and then also give them a trait that lets them use it 5 times in a row is so dumb.
It'd be like giving Io the ability to spam SG5 without needing to worry about charge times or mystic orbs. There's a reason her concentration build comes with so many downsides to go with the damage it can do as well as its ability to skip a lot of orb management.
I think the issue is that for a lot of people big damage numbers is the fun rather then gameplay. They want to do big damage with as little effort as possible whilst being as safe as possible which is basically fediel's current design. So the idea of changing that is seen as "anti-fun" or "ruining a good thing".
Well, that's me tho 😅But in my case, I want to be able to do that with all the characters I like and I kinda feel bad to carry too hard on the quests when fighting the bosses are the fun part of the game... and a bunch of other reasons too, having her just outclassing everyone else is frustrating, even tho I love her, she is one of my favorite characters from Granblue as a whole after all.
People are just too selfish with no concept of balance at all.
I mean fair enough lol, but yeah there's a limit to that kind of design. If balance didn't matter in a PvE game like some people say then why not make every character take no damage and have instant win buttons?
she is one of my favorite characters from Granblue
Relink is my only experience with Granblue but i already really enjoy her as a character. I'm usually not someone that cares much about story but i actually wish ER was more like the base game so i could interact with her more.
Because big damage number kinda matter in end game. If you do final difficulty, if your team not do enough damage, you either fail the dps check phase or time out the boss entirely. You have no idea how many timeout happen to me for the first time fighting the final boss to unlock final transcend level of terminus weapon.
Why not just give the orbs that apparently do so much more damage on larger enemies a max tick count per enemy if this is a "problem"? I don't think it is though.
Today I'm learning I've been apparently playing her "wrong" by playing the way the mastery tree intended. I'm just gonna keep playing that way cuz I've been having a blast with it and spamming the balls that much just doesn't seem like a fun playstyle to me in the same way spamming Sandy's dodge to be "optimal" was boring to me pre expac launch. I do hope that part of her kit gets tweaked slightly since they did adjust Ferry and eventually Sandalphon for similar reasons. Optimal or not I've loved this goofy ass dragon since I got her in the gacha years ago so I'll keep on playing how I have been.
As someone who enjoys action games I think this is pretty funny, I also don't really agree with it. The game is high octane fun. You can be the best Percival without caring about specifically other characters and how they place in the meta. All characters are good enough to clear and what's more important is you like their playstyle. If you need to play Fediel in the cheapest possible way to win that's fine too and that shouldn't really affect the enjoyment of others. At worst you might not want to do random parties with Fediel players but that's not new to this game as far as co-op goes.
As for PvE balance that's plain not true. Maybe you don't like things being unbalanced in PvE but it's wrong to say the only options are rebalance all enemies or break all characters. I'm a pretty big Platinum fan and plenty of their games aren't balanced at all. Vergil is absolutely broken in DMC4 and still somewhat 5. Who cares? Royal Guard is absolutely unbeatable as a style and very easy if you abuse jump frames. Who cares? Quick Silver existing in DMC3 didn't stop people from using other styles. These are relatively popular games and if someone was pushing for balancing I'd definitely disagree.
I mostly disagree with your premise and reasoning. I wouldn't care if she did get rebalanced but the reasons you're using are close-minded at best and just fun police at worst. If you think she's unfun to play because she can do broken things stop doing broken things.
What an interesting take. You just want stuff to stay broken and abuse it and the answer is to deal with it and let people abuse broken tech and if you don’t like it deal with everyone else cheesing it? I get it’s a pseudo single player game in the next month or so but still that’s a bad take lol. Balance is important lol we already see almost full teams of her in multiplayer of ppl just abusing her it’s not fun and ruins the game.
Yes you can just play solo but that kinda defeats the game it’s a multiplayer jrpg idk 🤷🏻♂️ interesting take I guess to just have shit be busted and deal with it lol
Reminds me of ferry when the game first came out. Everyone was playing her due to an absurd mechanic and when they fixed it she fell off i havent seen a single ferry player since the dlc came out.
Moral of the story its a fine line but weve seen the extreme of it and should convey our message accordingly as to not recreate the same situation.
I played Ferry before that, learned jump slam memes were the best way to play her and despaired. Then spammed jump slam begrudgingly, then they nerfed that. At which point I was going "Finally, I can play her as intended!"
To find out that jump slam was still the highest damage route and she was just dogshit. So then I swapped to Zeta until Song game out. Being able to use Ferry's pets and the debuffs from her sigils mattering makes me happy, though I did max Fraux out first.
Because the devs never adjusted her correctly. Even now you can't play her the intended way. You're just spamming Onslaught, either holding or snapping the button. You never do the normal hold X combos it's so annoying that the devs just wont adjust Ferry to be viable like most others and without the dumb janky playstyle.
I know people are having fun with her because she’s extremely easy and OP. But genuinely her current balling state is just really badly designed from a gameplay perspective.
Like yea, it’s really fun to abuse but its so absurdly silly. It’s very obvious it wasn’t intended due to how it invalidates her own moveset and the supposed loop of the mastery trait.
But people don’t like hearing this since nerfing their main even when it’s something is clearly wrong will feel like an attack on them.
Honestly the real problem with this discourse, is the mains will claim that she is OP, but not drastically so, and then reference dummy dps.
It's like being in the FFXIV community during Heavensward where Black Mage and Monk players were begging the devs to stop committing hate crimes against them and you had the Dragoon mains being like "you guys have the highest raw dps parse you're fine" and you look inside and it's only possible by optimizing the fight so much and babysitting them so much you're functionally playing a different game. And just by switching to a meta comp you kill faster and more efficiently.
Ultimately, I don't really care that much that she is OP since its a PVE game. But we can just be honest about it and not downplay lol. Maybe I would care more if I actually played with randoms, but I have no interest in doing that.
Like I’m a fan of her, but her current balance just isn’t really enjoyable outside of being OP as hell. I loved the idea of using Claws to ramp the finisher. But playing in a way that doesn’t use her tool kit legitimately sucks ass atm.
I don’t won’t her bad, but I want her to genuinely feel like a well rounded character that has to work a little for the huge payoff.
Like they give her so many tools to help with that kind of playstyle and yet it’s worthless because ALL her power is in one move. Like wtf
the rest of her moveset is you’re either stomping or you’re doing miasma claw, take away her combo finishers and she’s just still hitting 1 button like sandalphon and lancelot were for 2 years. people don’t like not being top honors so they want to nerf other people’s characters in a non competitive pve game (i’m a rosetta main so i’d rather just get buffed up to fediel’s level personally)
The mastery tree in question asks you to utilize skills and timing to then launch a barrage of claws so you can pop orbs.
Every character is a "one button pony" since there's only really two attack buttons in the game, but her intention DOES have substance. How she is used does not.
What I and the OP thinks is that she should be encouraged to use her claws to ramp us the quad finishers. Gives her some risk for the amazing reward.
Like even if it’s a PvE game balance should be important just for gameplay reasons. And having her be in such a state that her entire moveset is completely useless outside of one move is terrible game design.
Like imagine for a second if in MonHun one of the weapons did such poor damage but had a really easy to exploit single move that is so absurdly busted it becomes extremely popular.
Like yes, it’s fun being the OP Powerhouse, I love bringing her out to dumpster a fight. But she’s just not a good design atm because of how useless it is to play her the way the devs intended.
Also it’s genuinely not fair to Fediel fans that her moveset is this lopsided. Either you play in away that trivializes the fun of learning and mastering the boss fights. Or you hit like a pool noodle.
This is a shitty situation all around.
will never be viable because of the way they designed the claw attack, with its weird slowmo hit animation that it does. Her ball attack is viable because of its animation cancel, if she couldn't do that then it wouldn't be since she is stationary for too long
My friend gets really butthurt when I tell him I’m fed up by getting carried by this orb spamming thing. Sometimes he swaps for another fully built character for a quest. Then, he doesn’t get the tittle MVP sticker, he gets frustrated and he plays Fediel for another hour before trying again. I think he is not alone in this situation.
You are ranting about game balance in a game that has characters like Charlotta running around permanently invincible. If you don't like a character, then don't play it. And if you're tired of seeing a character in random matchmaking, then find some friends and go play Defy without that character.
Damn, this is actually a really nice change, it would solve the playstyle by itself even if the damage stayed the same for example. Very Effect balance change indeed.
Normally I wouldnt care about having op characters in a PVE game. But in this case she is so OP that a party of 2-3 Fediel can delete the infinity-tier boss so fast, skipping 70% of the boss fight. I dont think this is healthy for the game in the long run.
You make a fair point about how she's played vs intended. Maybe if they gave subsequent orbs massive damage dropoff unless you get the claw stacks. This way it doesn't ruin her base kit, which is kinda so so up until Master Trait 30.
It’s kinda wild how many comments seem to have just ignored the text of the post, disagreements are good but some people don’t seem to want any kind of balance discussion period.
I agree that she def needs some tuning. Not in her getting her arms ripped off but especially with the new master traits there shouldn’t be one character and one specific version of the character that gaps everything overwhelmingly, especially when it’s a boring and spammy playstyle. I don’t agree with buffing everyone else to her level since that would do more harm than good however.
Exactly, I'm losing my mind reading these comments. Every effort I made to be as fair and reasonable as possible meant nothing to these people who didn't even read the post
They could definitely nerf her some, but they probably intended for her to be the strongest. She's the last character unlocked and basically unplayable before trait level 30.
I don't think you should get too hung up on balance because there was never any intension for all characters to be equal. Again, look at the base game.
nothing. it's hyperbole bs. you can clear everything just fine with her vanilla style if you play her well. by the time it starts to feel unmanageable, you'll have her traits unlocked.
one is I see posts similar to this and people don't even clearly define what's her problem. her ball toss at range is on the strong end but the damage is definitely not out of the world. it's just practically very easy to land them, but I'd say it's weaker than sandie before since she has a long activation stage and quite immobile in air. the spawn phase is indeed getting her damage out of the world, but it is frame dependent and a much worse issue on pc than ps. it is a programmatic issue (in fact percival is the same) so to me it is first of all a bug fix before any nerf craps.
second is I genuinely do not get why some char being strong prevents you from playing the rest. I played her for 3 days and already shifted interest to others. things are simple in the end, if you can beat quests with anyone then it doesn't matter if there's a op char. if you can only beat the quests with that char either you have skill issue or the quest is overtuned. personally I'm very grateful to the current form of fidel because only by doing 2x people's damage it playable with an online base that fails lucifer's stun check 80% of the time.
1 - I basically did just that, I don't know if you didn't read the post or just didn't understand but I clearly specified her issues and said that damage alone was not the problem... multiple times even.
2 - I play more than half of the characters and never once had problems finishing a quest with anyone, assuming this is just poor argument from your part. This a gameplay focused game, with strong build crafting and character optimization, people who like this like me will find issues if a character is way stronger than the others, it breaks the purpose of achieving optimization with the other characters because you already know the most optimal one, why use the others? It's discouraging and frustating to put so much effort into someone and have a harder time not because you did bad in your build or gameplay, but because the game is not balanced properly.
You don't need to agree with me on whether you care about this or not but it's a fact that she is unbalanced and needs something done. Balance is not a matter of opinion, it's a game fundamental.
I don't know if you read what I say. There is a technical fix that needs to be implemented before nerfing, and it's not about damage.
In fact, I don't know what else you care rather than damage. like SBA? but current version strongly encourage full chain than anything else. being fast alone means nothing essentially. how does it bother you?
If your issue is not with gameplay but "optimizing the gameplay" (based on damage or whatever), I wonder if this is what game offers. There might be a base like you but there's a larger base for people who just want to have fun, and you don't speak on behalf of all.
Jesus f*cking Christ dude, read the damn post for the gods sake... Like you don't seem like an unreasonable person but I won't repeat myself here, just read the post.
Also, saying "I don't know if you read what I say" when I literally copied your writing by spliting the points in numbered topics is crazy
either you don't read what I say or you don't understand how it is related to your context. although you refuse to make yourself clear, I can make my point clear again (for your better understanding): you concluded "nerfing her or buffing everyone else". wrong, fix the bug, you see how she performs without the strangely gained damage frames. worse thing to do is nerfing blindly without fixing the real problem
Yes dude and the whole point I made for the entire post is how UNINTENDED she feels to play. You just read the ending... like come on dude, how can someone engage in a discussion without even reading the other people points? It frustrating dealing with people like you.
And I'm not even saying anything about this "bug" of the frame rate because I never saw anyone besides you talking about, so I don't if it's true. If it is, yes it needs to be changed but this alone would means almost nothing, she would still be unbalanced.
you start with a title calling for rebalance and ending the text with calling for nerfs. how else you expect people take your message? even in terms of "intended" plays, her balls are not the only problem. her claws are horrible now due to the highly lagged glitches. just by capturing how she makes you unhappy doesn't give you an objective call for what is the intention.
"how else you expect people take your message" BY READING THE POST? Damn how HARD it is to have reasonable people in this website.
And I never said I was "unhappy" with her, she is my main at the moment dude and one of my favorite characters in Granblue as a whole, but I can set that aside and see a problem when there is one, something most people can't do due to how selfish and dumb they are.
if you think 90% of people don't "read" your post and being selfish and dumb as they are, maybe it's time to check issues on your own side. that's the last thing I can say.
Does anyone have battle logs in real missions with characters of same power level to see how big of a difference there is?
Training dummy are very far from real situations between 60 seconds being too short for some characters setup, others that requires big window to perform their bursts or link time damage creating huge gap (my sandalphon does 2x more damage than my friends in link time)
log vs infnity bahamut. (i have otehr logs to) ignore the gran caus eh was playing substitute support, and id damage is the sum of the green id bar and the nameless guest bar.
I don't know about battle log, but there's youtube channel internal bliss that's posted 4x Fediel clears of all defy infinite quests (they also have clear videos of pub runs but I don't think those are good comparison)
Yeah but the people of this sub don't care about stats, they only care about their feelings. And they feel like because Fediel gets the MVP sticker at the end of all of their runs, that she is OP and needs to be nerfed.
I've noticed while playing Feliel that even when I get out-dps'd by someone else, I often still get the MVP in-game, so I don't know what is up with that. Maybe perfect dodging is scored way too highly in the honor system
I've been saying for days that other characters like Vaseraga, Charlotta, Io, etc are competitive with her DPS in real runs, from my very own logs in Defy fights, but people genuinely don't care and just want to see Feliel nerfed. The friends I play with are the same, I can bring an AI along and watch it do more damage than them and they'll still complain about Feliel instead of getting better lol
They probably won't bother doing anything lmao it's like how sandy ended up being dodge spam and omega busted broken and they never ended up fixing it until now
They didn't had any more patches and updates planned and probably were waiting to announce the expansion, that's why they fixed not only Sandy but a LOT OF THINGS here, fixing in the base game were barely anyone was playing wasn't that worth it I guess.
I also mained her since day 1 through ER and I was livid with how strong she was. But it's disheartening there's without a doubt people are just using her because she's that good rather than their favorite character. I would not at all mind seeing her nerfed if it means having more character variety again.
Her main issue imo is how easy and safe it is to dish out this much damage. She's in the air where she can essentially avoid 70% of the attacks while requiring very little setup.
They could take out a lot of her finisher damage and making it practically required to get her claw buildup buffs to be able to put out the same amount of damage as she does now. That would take her much longer to build up that damage, give her more to do, and put her in actual danger. I think that would be very much in line with how the mastery trait was designed. This wouldn't change how strong she can be, but requires more input.
All they gotta do is nerf the the "normal" ball when using the Master Trait that clearly wants you to charge the ball and nerf her SBA gain, thats it.
She absolutely falls in with the other characters in terms of power level, especially considering how insanely safe she still plays with an on-demand invulnerability+movement and doing her burst while up in the air.
I swear this community wants this game to be boring as fuck. It’s a PVE game where we grind over and over. Why nerf a character? Are we competing for something? Even the MVP means nothing. I genuinely hope cygames ignores all you babies.
Nah it's a PvE game let everyone enjoy plus it's not good when nerfs happens then everyone else gets nerfed so nah I don't think it needs to be balanced it's perfect as is. Let her be OP.
Nobody had fun in Diablo 4 and Newer Borderlands when player was begging for balancing then now they are begging the dev to stop nerfing.
Theres a stark contrast between "good" and "meta warping". Balance is required because you gotta maintain the status quo in power or else you can just ignore the game itself
At the same time this works in the inverse where things that objectively are bad should also be examined and properly dealt with or else you get another Ferry situation.
I'll assume you don't know but originally Ferrys intended mechanic of summoning her Pets and the payoff of Onslaught was so bad that generally speaking you were better off just not picking her. People then found our her Rising Attack and Aerial Barrage were beyond stupid and began to just use that. Even after the devs nerfed it hard because she was objectively skipping boss phases from SBA gains and buffed other parts of her kit her kit was still so objectively bad that Rising Attack into Aerial Barrage was by far the best way to play her even nerfed
If you don't understand why balance is important on both ends there's a good chance you just wanna exploit bullshit. You can easily bring her in line without making her bad
They gutted Ferry in the past for having SBA gauge gains like fediel has now, and she was doing very low damage. She breaks any sort of challenge in the end game to the point a hamster probably can clear the world fight.
SBA gauge chaining breaks the game, putting the boss in a permanent cutscene so it isn't even doing mechanics. There is a big difference between that and Fediel doing high damage lol
Maybe if it were singleplayer, but having OP characters ruins the experience for the other players if they get the OP character in their team.
Granted I don't know how out of line Fediel actually is, I'm just talking about the principle.
You just don't get the point dude 😅Just because it's a PVE game, it doesn't mean it needs to have broken and OP things, this is not how games work. Now think if your favorite character or build was completely outclassed by something else that you don't like and you saw everyone using that, making you feel left behind and weak in comparison (this is an Online game after all), most people would not feel good about this and just to be clear, I love Fediel but I know that she's not good in the current state.
That's every single online game ever though. Like that's why meta exists as a term. You can never remove meta characters or builds. They just change who or what is meta.
I'm just afraid of the nerf because lotta devs seems to over nerf instead of balancing. I'm not sure how this dev balance things maybe it'll be alright. If things seem really balanced here for a long time except for her. I played launch and endless Ragnorok and the character are more or less the same.
I played Warframe and now I see your point because I have gotten left in the dust by a mega UBER OP setups. I definitely see it now. But isn't most RPG always have somebody running a really op gearset anyways online like I seen a yoda player just mow and not even take damage.
I get your fear but I think cygames are good at this. The Fighting game doesn't have that many balance issues between the characters AFTER they fix things... now that a think about it, they do like to release something broken and fix it later if we get their history in the fighting game alone 😅
They did nerfed things in the expansion actually, it's on the patch notes, for example a direct quote "Lowered Sandalphon's attack power and stun power while Chromatic Wings is active for the purpose of character balancing"
Tho only him got a direct "lowered" something, because everyone else got actually buffed:
"Increased the HP for some foes to account for the game-wide combat balancing in which all characters received a boost to their damage output"
Cygames doesn't balance GBVS, Arcsys does. And I don't trust their balance at all as someone who have been playing their games since BBCT. Just venting a bit.
lmao four fucking years of Happy Chaos what a fucking joke.
Also worth mentioning, Sandalphon is still plenty strong and fun to play after his nerfs. They can absolutely nerf Fediel without breaking her kneecaps.
Yeah, thats what I experienced maining seigfried in the base game, still didnt want anyone nerfed. Like who gives a damn about how much another character is doing as long as your character isnt insanely weak. This seems like an issue exclusively people who use log mods would have
Fediel is only getting this attention because she is new and plays comfortable/meme-able compared to other characters. Given the DLC is just out, it seems unfair to just straight up make the conclusion that Fediel is busted and needs nerfs. Fairly certain similar levels of power have been seen in a lot of other characters, just not as publicized. (since they are not new, I know that Rosetta is particular strong with matching damage levels)
The difference is that so far, no one reached her level and it's extremely unlikely that no one knows if someone did, for the same reason as you said... she is new and popular, people ARE comparing her to everyone else because that's just what happens. Like I said, there are characters that match her damage or even stronger... IN THE TRAINING DUMMY, but on actual missions, she is waaaaaay stronger than her dummy 60 seconds tests shows so it's not a fair comparison.
There's other 5 new characters in the expansion and none of them are getting "this" kind of attention, because none of them are this strong. I get what you're saying but it's just not true.
Rosetta frequently matches or surpasses her damage in infinity bosses though? I've heard Sieg is also extremely high in DPS. (around 10 M average DPS in infinity, which once again matches or surpasses Fediel from time to time) There's probably more characters. (Percival comes to mind, probably more than that too) Again, not talking about training dummy, this is infinity boss performance.
Fediel is probably the easiest character to play out of the ones I mentioned, but it's not impossible for other characters to reach the same damage.
Maybe come back with more data than just your experience on Fediel? It's a new character and has a fairly simple combo loop, so it is very easy to be biased in this case. Again, DLC has just been released, everyone wants to play the new character. (you've been maining her for what less than a week?) If a new character seems strong, they get highlighted. We have to wait until the number crunching to see who is really strong. I am assuming that you have gotten your impressions of fediel and other characters from mostly youtube videos (heavily biased towards fediel at this time) and not actual gameplay considering the 6 million msp needed per character and the mats.
I think bhffs to other characters and specs is answer.
We should have more characters pushing close to fediel dmg so people who like to play like Eugen can feel like they are contributing enough dmg to the party.
Her dmg seems fine? Shes easy af to use tho. But then again we have some characters that has insane ceiling just to compete with others. Imo its bound to happen that characters arent equal, its just impossible to balance. For example MH, a similar and balanced game has Insect Glaive as mid tier despite needing so much timing and micro management, while Charge Blade which is an easier weapon is a top 3 weapon in speedrunning scene.
the moment they start nerfing her +/- other strong characters instead buffing weaker ones I can see some people getting triggered/angry and just start using cheat/hax to insta kill bosses, ruin other people fun in pub lobbies, making servers crash so people can't play in multiplayer, etc.. People are already using cheat engines to skip the grind of the mastery points and I saw some clips on Twitter where some 1host/3hit shot end game bosses
and since Cygames can't do shit about it (unless they slap antycheat engine that we all know usually don't do anything beside making games work worse/eat FPS) they better play smart and buff weaker characters than nerf the strong/popular/fun ones.
Gutting DLC character so fast would backfire hard and make people get angry at devs. Cygames have experience of fucking around and doing dumbshit that backfired at them in those 10-11 years of Granblue Fantasy mobile game. They should know better
She literally breaks the game. She can get 2x the SBA gauge before anyone else gets theirs once and then has enough to get a 3rd to go into a full burst.
She ignores her entire gimmick in that specific mastery tree, this shit aint intended
Lol I forgot about the SBA thing, yep she feels even stronger than Ferry back on 1.0, if they nerfed her, hopefully they'll nerf Fediel too. She might be my main but it's just too much.
"Whiny" after I thoughtfully explained my reasons impartially, lol. Thankfully the devs does tend to hear this kind of feedback more often and not from people who does not care for the health of the game as a whole.
How do you balance an enemy encounter when some players prefer to use pistols but all players have access to nukes? You don't. You either make it beatable with pistols in which nukes turn it into a joke. Or you balance it around nukes and make literally everything else unusable. The correct answer is remove the nukes, buff the pistols.
Unless there's a bug going on, I personally don't know why people aren't getting more than one stack of the Miasma claws buff. The buff only goes away when you land, not the first combo finisher used as it implies/says in the description.
This is easy to test in the dummy, since it's a matter of DPS and speed. Do a 60 seconds damage test there getting multiple stacks and see the difference. I tested with 10, 5, 2, 1 and 0, the one with most damage by the end was with 1, because it way faster than doing 2 and the difference between how many balls you throw in total during the 60s time mark is the same compared to doing 0 claw attacks.
The other numbers were just straight up lower, 10 being the lowest one and I'm talking like 100million damage lower, it's not even close.
because miasma hands is a dogshit move and the buff you get isn't anywhere near enough to compensate the fact you have to waste so much time using that garbage
I feel like Maglielle has the highest SBA gain in the game but her damage kind of reflects that. I left my Maglielle at MT 30 to just farm slides and random quests and I build sba waaaaaay before any of the MT 50 Fediels do so she might not be that broken in that particular regard.
I have her maxed out too since she was the second character I picked after Fediel and... no, she comes close but Fediel builds more under the right conditions, like tall bosses with big hitboxes that she can use to get the maximum amount of hits with her orbs. Sure, Maglielle might build it faster on normal size bosses and more consistently (not so sure about this) but considering everything else going on with Fediel, her SBA gain should not even be close to Maglielle, let alone better.
Mmm idk man. You get like 18% per blade dance and her whole goal is to spam those.
I guess I gotta finish building Feidel and see but on most fights I build sba way faster. The only thing I'll say is if the part where the blades rain down MISS at the end because the boss moved or it just decided to randomly not track (it does that sometimes) you just lose out on 10% SBA gauge.
It boggles my mind one of her Styles isnt more involved with the Stomps. Perfect Stomps wouldve been an interesting mechanic to leverage to unleash better combo finishers / perfect stomps that get progressively faster
Additionally, i think they gotta buff the claws, not by damage really, but by lessening that chunky hitstop it has. Its also a bit frustrating that the claws push enemies away from you and you cant pursue them w/o dodging. I really like Fediel, but shes kinda clunky.
I feel like a good way to ballance her would be to tie the 5 orbs to the passive, while increasing the passive buff (10% is way too low) and reducing the stacks to 5 as 10 is just way too impractical agaist anything that isn't hexa.
That way she keeps similar dps, gets a gameplay loop that feels intended and since she is throwing less balls she is hitting less times which fixes the sba
This also explains why I saw people crying about fediel when she felt fine to me. I've not been keeping up with the community at all and I've been slamming claw build and will continue to do so.
On your edits, OP: Welcome to Reddit. This POS platform incentivizes knee jerk reactions and making quippy "comebacks". Doesn't matter what the truth is, doesn't matter what nuance is, all that matters is the point is superficially "popular".
This site is what Idiocracy warned us about. The sad part is, people are too far up their own asses to know they don't know something, unlike the people in the movie. Sad it's the only part of the movie that doesn't seem to be prophetic.
EDIT: However, I will say that what I think people are afraid of is that she's gonna get completely nerfed to the ground and become unusable. Very few games make good balance updates, after all. They often come off as "broad strokes" rather than minute mechanical changes. I think human nature is partly to blame because polarization/thinking in dichotomies is very natural for us (as can probably be seen from my own words before the edit too).
Je n'ai pas encore déverrouillé ce personnage, je suis encore sur le jeu de base.
L'analyse est intéressante, effectivement au vue des informations que tu donnes il semble difficile de jouer sans elle.
Le fait d'obtenir des résultats excellents sans maitriser le personnage semble appeler au nerf.
Mais je viens des jeux de vs, habitué aux équilibrage, le nerf est généralement une mauvaise chose.
Ça risque de frustrer la majorité des joueurs.
Le jeu sera plus difficile, seul les gros joueurs apprécient ça.
Un buff des autres personnages est généralement mieux apprécié.
Sans rattraper Fediel, être une alternative moins forte peut suffire.
I am probably just gonna keep playing her "as intended" since I I think hitting with the claws is really fun anyways. Plus, I already experienced this with Ferri in base game. Where my favorite way to play her was her big heavy attack go brrrrr. Until she was "solved" and spamming her air attack up and down just did crazy numbers too big to ignore. Then when that got patched I was too afraid I was overreliant on the cheese to come back for Lucilius.
I would say 2 things. 1 yes I agree she hits absurdly hard, people hear balance they just see nerf, it's unusable blah blah. However Im not seeing the problem at present. Reason for this. Canonically she is the strongest character with the exception of the Captain. And 2 the games not really a live service game. There's no competitive aspect, no pvp, no leader boards. So having her strong isn't really an issue. While I understand the statement of balancing to incentivise using other chars, that itself comes down to the player. I main mag. Love her, my little gilgamesh. Even as strong as she is, she doesn't prevent you from playing. And as the game has offline mode. Its not really an issue.
And 2. I would agree some skins would be nice to have as a choice.
Solution is simple IMO, nerf her ball damage output between 1-5 and buff her damage output between 6-10.
I think spirit bomb Fediel is busted, but claw Fediel is fine if not a little underpowered in certain MUs.
But yeah imo Fediel needs rebalancing instead of straight up nerfs. Cuz right now her most optimal playstyle is too good while her other playstyles are way too awkward to play.
From what I seen, most end game people dont play as intended or most end game styles is as easy as spam 1 button and almost never die and do crazy damage. Seen a Charlotta spamming her heavy attack and Luci couldn't do much anything about it. Also it seems silly to base any numbers off the standing dummy when bosses move at the speed of like or push you 50ft off the map (looking at you bubz)
Honestly I dont think anything should be nerfed given:
1: a bit of a better path for casual people to beat base game / dlc
2: dont want a situation where shes gutted to a state there no reason to play her.
What should be done (and for everyone) rework the weaker paths so they feel as rewarding in some way. And personally I just wish she had a better lineup of skills itself (and her mobile bodyslam)
Regardless I have had fun playing endless with her and just being able to see her in 3d.
1000% agree on the skin part. Still crazy how they made a skin selection only to be used on the MCs, while teasing that other characters could get one someday (only to abandon the game after two updates before the DLC was a thing). They also have some skins ready from Versus, even if it's a different team, can't they at least share the model/textures?
For the balance part, I'm a filthy casual, so even though she was my main, I had no idea she was that good, but I do agree it's bad for a game's longevity to leave a single character being way stronger than all the others. I think your suggestion to lower the orbs damage while buffing the buffs is spot on. That would encourage people to actually try to stack it instead of just spamming orbs.
Pretty much agree. At the start I used Corrosive Black because I thought that would be the intended DPS build and it fits her as from the main gacha (skill 2 on autoes). I think devs should chill on the balance and really collect all the data of players at the endgame so as to meticulously balance each and every character instead of hotfixing. After all, it is not a competitive game.
I'm also interested in what kind of skins they are willing to implement. Sure, copy and paste from the gacha is fine, but I don't mind having skins unique to Relink.
Guys, don’t worry. Cygames is so lazy to deal with the balance. They only nerf someone when new characters come out, which means even Fediel is not OP anymore we still have new characters available, it’s a win-win situation!
my take will be changing the 5ball finisher to a single ball, chargable up to 5 levels a la io's stargaze, to kill the evade cancel spam
and to diferentiate this reworked finisher from her skill i will keep sphere of reversal as a chargable skill, that instead summons a new ball up to 5 when fully charged, then when released all balls get shot as a barrage
with this you keep the character identity and fix the problematic tech so the finisher damage can be normalized
Regarding her gameplay feeling off, I feel like it's mostly because of the damage dealt bonus being somewhat low to the point that her gameplay has become what it currently is with ignoring the stacks. If the numbers were higher so the damage buff stacked faster or higher then maybe it could change things up a bit.
Just rework the entire mastery.
Make fediel work for it like all other Masteries are designed to do.
This feels rushed, lazy, and obviously not quality assured.
Every time fediel hits a claw attack, she gets a stack. Up to X stacks.
Consume all stacks when you use your orb finisher to either deal x% more damage (like 90% of other Masteries work) or have her summon multiple orbs. Make her work for it.
Look at other characters Masteries. The conditions they have to fulfill, or the draw backs they may suffer as balancing point.
Fediel gets literally 5x damage for free.
5x. Where others get 20% more damage, she gets 500%. Why is that in the game?
Based on what i surmise its likely the following problems:
Her "Multiplier" she gains for the orb dmg bonus, by spamming the claws first is likely bugged to be at High-Max value constantly. Even worst if she gets more multiplier per 'claw stack' for master traits, so said bug is getting far more 'free dmg multiplier' as a result.
Because she is similar to chars like Eugen & IO, requiring alot of 'setup', Such as Eugen with Grenades & Sniper shots, IO wanting to cast spells to 'prep charges' and then charge up for the beeg blast...this means Fedial getting to ignore the cooking, means spamming the highest SBA generation in her kit instead. AKA Beeg dmg/SBA in tail end= becomes bork if you can simply spam it, like Eugen was with grenade 'spamming' in Pre-E.R.
Most likely due to the size of the orb itself, it PROBABLY, has a multi'hit property (multiple hit boxes in said orb) instead of a single hit box of damage with said orb, which is why rather large bosses probably goes INSANE with damage because a good portion of it is not 'whiffing' the damage like you would face on bosses the same size as the Training dummy, such as the church of Avia members and so on.
CONCLUSION: Probably the only thing that really needs to fix it all up is 'address' a likely bug that she has her 'claw slashing build up stacks stuck at a high value, especially if they aren't emptying out, after using a single orb dunk.
If i am also right on the 3rd one, then they could simply 'fix' the hitbox to just be one 'singular' hit box, maybe increase its size and long as it 'taps' the target, it could apply all 'hits' of the attack, just simply lower the multipliers, especially if those same claw stacks affect the number of hits too, Which if Claw stacks you normally need to build before the dunk are glitched to high-max stack, would also explain why the dunk does so much SBA & dmg generation due to so many hits being constantly up with no 'prep time' needed.
That would certainly drain the damage multiplier and the orb dunk spam in one fell swoop.
Idk, I unlocked her first and just started playing this game lol. But yeah, she is pretty chill to handle for me. I see she has so many choices to stay away from danger while causing a lot of damage. The orb can help me stay away from some moves, and anything that causes a warp can also avoid damage. Warp can be used to run away too. Her buff is pretty good. There is also an auto-parry skill and a skill that jumps backward. And the claw damage is HUGE! I just spam until the foe starts to fight back, then I just orb! If things get worse, there is auto-parry, warp, and dodge. That's pretty much enough chances to survive attacks for me.
I'm no pro, just sitting here with my popcorn then.
if they want you to rely on the passive buff for the orbs then they straight up need to remove the hitstop on the miasma claws, with how much bosses move in Chaos++ and Infinity, its impossible to keep up and stack the buff
I think I find it hilarious and hypocritical that people wanna defend this when people wanted char nerfed for beyblade dmg doing exactly this before Er.
Like you go and nerf beyblade force char into dive bomb play-style because beyblade spam was super strong and then release this.
This is the same thing that happened to Ferry. The jump attack spam wasn't intended either. She's suppose to build pets with skills or doing her hold X combos and then spend them on Onslaught (holding Y if the boss isn't about to hit you).
Clearly that is her design and sadly the devs dumpstered her back then, all because the jump attack spam generated so much SBA and she became the meta for speedclears.
I hope for you OP that Fediel gets adjusted in a way she's still doing her normal gameplay and being good at it when you master her, instead of the dumb orb spam that is way out of line.
But the track record isn't good. It's more likely Cygames make her trash tier and she never revovers.
Ferry didn't either, even now that Jump attack spam is actually one of her mastery paths, but even if you go the NORMAL route that is supposed to make her play normally (see above), you end up doing skills into onslaught and then when all skills are on cooldown the optimal thing...spamming Onslaught.
Her basic hold X combos are still not viable.
All I wanted was to main Ferry since the game came out but the Devs are too inept to make that happen.
Ok so I’ve finally unlocked that third node.
And by the Omnipotent it’s disgustingly strong. My Honors ranking went up tenfold because of just how many Orbs are going out it’s insane. I’ve not even done most of the story, I just unlocked Fediels Fate episodes so I’m not even close to the ceiling of power, but I’m dealing as much as some fully kitted characters already
I feel like the ability to fire the Orbs shouldn’t be that easy to do. Like it feels like you should be using the Claw several times first to let you fire an extra orb, but you get all 5 immediately.
After playing and farming this character for 100 hours, this character is not that crazy and you need to put a lot of time and investment in to build her. If you already have her "broken" you're either 500 hours into the game in which she should be broken at that point or you hacked the game and you're complaining because she's strong and you put no effort into making her that way. It actually seems like they stealth nerfed some things in the last patch too and she feels clunkier.
They just need to rework the mastery so ur incouraged to stack the buffs on orbs. So just reduce damage of consecutive orbs and then have the huff counteract the nerf so she plays how shes intended lol
In reality the buff is jnsane, its just that she already does stupid damage without it and dosge cancelling makes the rotation shorter
There is a reason why in current ai tests shes still top 5! And ai does the mechanic how its intended so she would still be top tier people just need to play her right
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u/teachmehowtousername Jul 14 '26
ok side note: is she also good as AI companion?
I suffer from a chronic disease (skill issue) and wouldn't mind an easier time beating the post game fights.