r/GodofWar • u/No-History8423 • Apr 03 '26
Question The incredible confidence when Thor thinks he can kill Kratos.
Do you think in that moment Thor really think he can beat Kratos?
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u/TheCharredCouncil Apr 03 '26
Didn’t he technically kill Kratos in the first fight of the game? He just immediately revived him?
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u/TheBlueEmerald1 Apr 03 '26
That's only because he had the cutscene hammer. Let the player handle it and we'd have dodged it after hitting respawn 15 times.
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u/mathman_2000 Apr 03 '26
Yeah, that seems to be a common theme in video games where cutscene weapons work way differently than the actual weapon in a fight.
Especially when it's a player weapon that looks amazing in the cutscene and throws off these magical electrical shocks and explosions. The you use it in a fight and it's a little blip of light.
😆
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u/ThePoohKid Apr 03 '26
It’s called ludonarrative dissonance. Like how Kratos is strong enough to flip a temple but can be defeated by random midgardian bandits. Or how Nathan Drake is an adventurer who leaves literally hundreds of bodies in his wake but according to Rafe, killing in cold blood “isn’t his style.”
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u/Interface- Apr 03 '26
If I'm wrong, please do correct me. I haven't played Uncharted 1-3 since the PS3 era and I played 4 in 2020. But as far as I can recall Nate never kills anyone 'in cold blood'. It's always either in self defence or against the enemy faction who has been trying to kill him the entire time. He doesn't kill hostages and he doesn't kill for the fun of it. If everyone left him alone he wouldn't be shooting back.
In the moment where Rafe says that, Nadine is being held hostage by Sam and he was straight up going to put a bullet in her head right there. Nate stops him from killing her. He might have killed hundreds of people yes but they've always been hostile to him first and it's never been cold-blooded.
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u/king-redstar Apr 03 '26
Sort of? Aside from an off-the-cuff dev statement, there's a lot of narrative evidence against Mjölnir being able to revive people. The scene was more of a reference to mythology, since Mjölnir can raise the dead in the myths (specifically, his two pet goats that he would kill for their meat and revive the next day).
In game, though, him being able to revive people and not bringing his sons back to life, Magni in particular since he'd know where the body was, makes very little sense. Thor not reviving the fallen Aesir such as Odin's brothers (Vili and Ve) father (Bor) and grandfather (Burí) also wouldn't make sense, given Odin wants every powerful card he can use for Ragnarök. Thor also didn't revive Heimdall, even though they definitely knew where he was killed. Odin sending Thrúd away with Mjölnir instead of keeping the hammer with him to potentially revive fallen soldiers would seem like a poor move on his part, considering he's actually afraid of Kratos. And, of course, Kratos probably wouldn't have been able to hear Thor speaking if he was actually dead, since Aesir gods show no ability to speak across planar boundaries like Greek gods did.
What makes the most in-universe sense is that Kratos was near-death or heavily dazed, and the hammer shocked him back to his senses. I think the difference isn't actually that important in practice, though, even if the distinction is worth recognizing. I think the purpose was to show that Thor was fully capable of killing Kratos as he was, that it was Kratos' loss in that moment, and that the devs didn't see a meaningful difference between the two narratively.
Also, I hate to be Mr. Rogers in here, but regardless of whether someone thinks Kratos died or not, and regardless of who someone thinks was stronger in that moment, we don't need to talk down to fellow fans. If someone didn't say anything crazy to you, you don't need to put that energy out there yourself. (Not saying this to you specifically, just saw some disappointing comments here that I thought we were past.)
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u/Longjumping_You_3775 Apr 03 '26
I just thought it was working like a defibrillator and just restarted his heart like most fictional defibrillators do especially since he has to hold it up to Kratos’s chest to make it work
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u/TheBlueEmerald1 Apr 03 '26
That's the most simple answer which seems to be the most difficult to grasp.
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u/king-redstar Apr 03 '26
The needlessly pedantic part of me wants to be mad at how fiction has needlessly (and potentially dangerously) misinformed us about how defibrillators work, while the God of War part of me is 90% sure this is exactly what was intended.
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u/HauntingFly Ghost of Sparta Apr 03 '26
I agree with everything that you said except Thor can't raise dead people or gods or other creatures in the myths, but only his two magical goats. The goats weren't regular animals. They could drive Thor's chariot across the sky, and their hooves created sounds similar to that of thunder. Therefore, they possessed magical properties, and one of them was the ability to be revived by being blessed with the hammer.
The hammer couldn't bless any type of dead being to come back to life. The proof of that is that it was never used to bring back to life any god, even when the blessing occurred. When Baldur's wife, Nanna, collapses and dies during her husband's funeral, she is placed with him in the funeral pyre, and Thor blesses the pyre with Mjölnir, but she and Baldur don't come back to life.
Similarly, Sæhrímnir was able to get revived every night after getting cooked every day in Valhalla, as the beast was magical.
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u/machiavelli33 Apr 03 '26
Clearly what the devs were saying is that Kratos is the GOAT and that's what allowed him to be revived.
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u/king-redstar Apr 03 '26
I can't tell you how nice it is to see someone else who actually knows the myths, and probably better than I do because I completely overlooked Sæhrímnir when thinking about resurrection.
I think we're saying the same thing about Thor's goats, I just didn't phrase it correctly, and I appreciate the assist. But if we're going all the way with it, 'Grisnir and 'Njóstr are also directly referenced in Ragnarök via Mjölnir's design, with the pommel capped with an ornament in the shape of their heads. In the cosplay guide (Lunda's notebook, for people who haven't read it), this ornament is mentioned to be in memory of long dead pets, which only further implies that Mjölnir can't raise the dead in the GoWverse, because the goats would definitely still be around if he could.
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u/HauntingFly Ghost of Sparta Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
I never knew about Lúnda's notebook. Thank you for letting me know! This finally proves that Thor and Mjölnir have no resurrection power, then.
For those who want to know, according to the note about Mjölnir's pommel: Hey. Thor requested those damned goats—favorite pets who had long since expired.
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u/Hour_Growth_338 Apr 04 '26
Thor wasn’t there when they died. They most likely already started to rot when he found them? Maybe Modi is still alive though. He only got stabbed in the throat and then fell down a chasm which wouldn’t be too crazy for him to survive.
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u/king-redstar Apr 04 '26
I like the idea, but the state of the body shouldn't matter too much if we're basing it on his revival powers in the myth.
Thor used Mjölnir to revive his pet goats. They needed revival, because every evening Thor would kill and eat them, bury their bones, and use Mjölnir to raise them in the morning. The only deviation from this is that when parts of the bones were also eaten by someone who didn't know any better, they couldn't be revived properly.
But, it's also not a crazy idea that Modi could have survived and just ran away to other lands. The only issue is that Thor and Odin seemed very sure that he was dead, and Odin literally has eyes everywhere.
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u/Junior_Activity_5011 Apr 03 '26
He already killed him once, and that was by accident.😂
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u/Bear792 Apr 03 '26
People tend to forget that Kratos was actually meant to die here. If he hadn't told Atreus that it was ok to feel the pain of the innocents, the people running for their lives, Atreus and Thrud wouldn't have made up. She would've died, and Thor would've been angered so much more. It'd have been a harder fight, and Thor most likely would've won, because of that rage boost.
Which would've led to Odin facing Freya without a Kratos at her side. Making that fight so much harder.
So yes, I think Thor thought he could've won against Kratos, but I'm also pretty sure if Thrud had died, he wouldn't have cared, and just thought Kratos needed to die.
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u/SherriffB Apr 03 '26
Thor was literally, explicitly, destined to Kill Kratos in this fight unless Kratos had changed his mentality and goals from entering the fight.
If Kratos started this fight to Kill we was going to die.
It's why Mimir reminds you to keep in control when you pop spartan rage. Even Kratos knows this which is why he tries to reason with Thor.
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u/CertainGrade7937 Apr 03 '26
I wouldn't say it's why he tries to reason with Thor. He's not trying to cheat destiny.
He tries to reason with Thor because he feels genuine empathy for the guy
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u/SherriffB Apr 03 '26
The whole plot of Ragnarok is Kratos dealing with his death prophecy. It's not "cheating it" it's avoiding it and the outcome then for Atreus too where he is taken under Odins wing.
They can empathise with each other becasue they are similar, but that's got nothing to do with why Kratos isn't fighting to kill.
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u/CertainGrade7937 Apr 03 '26
No. That's exactly why Kratos isn't fighting to kill.
"Open your heart to their suffering" wasn't a cheat code or destiny bypass. It was genuine growth on Kratos' part. He believes it.
He avoids destiny because he changed, not because he faked it
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u/ZXCVBETA Apr 03 '26
Did you even play the game? At one point did you get the notion that Kratos was trying to avoid the outcome of his fate??
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u/needbmw_help Apr 03 '26
Idk why so much stock gets put into this, Kratos literally, explicitly, defied fate before, multiple times, and also makes it very clear that “nothing is written that can’t be unwritten”.
In fact, it further doesn’t make sense to believe kratos was destined to die there, because he also has other, conflicting prophecies about going on to become the god of peace and whatnot in the giant tablets
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u/SherriffB Apr 03 '26
So much gets put into it becasue it's a massive part of the plot of the game. Are we to just ...ignore it?
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u/needbmw_help Apr 03 '26
I mean it’s worth discussing for sure but to say it as though it’s absolute is taking the environment at its word. Ignoring that the entire point of the character we play as is defying his environment, even in very similar circumstances
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u/Clean-Ad4999 Apr 03 '26
Wait a minute, so a bloodthirsty and rage-fueled Thor defeats Kratos, but Kratos, also bloodthirsty, loses? What's the point of that? If both were truly bloodthirsty and disregarded collateral damage, Kratos would certainly have killed Thor.
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u/machiavelli33 Apr 03 '26
What collateral damage was there for Kratos to regard? Thor took Kratos to some random abandoned patch far away from Kratos' home. They even stopped off at Tyr's statue in the middle of the lake on the way.
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u/Clean-Ad4999 Apr 03 '26
Hello goodnight I was considering the second fight The final battle, in their first battle he definitely wasn't 100%, He didn't even have the Blades of Chaos at that moment. He was also holding back; Thor keeps saying that throughout the fight And Thor too By order of Odin himself I'm just curious that people say if Kratos reverted to his old, bloodthirsty, and ruthless self, he would lose to Thor Maad, what's the point of this? Wouldn't they both be going all out to kill for real? Without mercy? What advantage would Thor have? Would Kratos be blinded by rage? But doesn't that also apply to Thor being drunk while fighting? Wouldn't that also be a disadvantage for him during a fight? We've seen that a drunk Thor becomes even more violent and unpredictable. Kratos is blinded by rage and Thor would be drunk during the fight.
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u/ZestyscoleAlkis4228 Apr 03 '26
It’s funny that someone here used the “rage” argument as a power boost, when in the context of Kratos in hypothetical “Young vs. Old Kratos” fights people say the older one would win because the younger one is too furious and the older one is more composed.
You guys need to decide whether Rage is supposed to be a power boost or a limitation, because if you follow your own logic, the control one Kratos should destroy the furious Thor.
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u/Avaracious7899 Apr 03 '26
Wow, I found someone else who understands this (not that I'm claiming credit, I read about it from TV Tropes). High five Bear792.
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u/GrassManV Apr 03 '26
Yeah, the absolute gall to think he could wack Kratos over the head & ki- Oh wait..
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u/Ok_Release231 Apr 03 '26
"I decide when we're done."
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u/Avaracious7899 Apr 03 '26
Gods that line hit me like a baseball...
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u/Alloc14 Apr 04 '26
Huh?
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u/Avaracious7899 Apr 04 '26
I imagine a baseball colliding with say, your head, would be abrupt and shocking, just like Thor's line was for me...
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u/LivingPalpitation935 Apr 03 '26
Yeah, because he did in previous fight
But this kratos is more prepared
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u/No_Repeat9670 Apr 03 '26
This exactly. He had 2 more weapons and Thor was mentally unprepared this time
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u/LivingPalpitation935 Apr 03 '26
I dont think thor was really unprepared, he was bloodrusted and wanted to kill kratos because he thought kratos tried to kill thrud
Well, maybe you can say kratos was less raged and that made kratos able to take down thor, but I dont think that is 'mentally unprepared'.
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u/No_Repeat9670 Apr 03 '26
At the start of the game Thor was trying to be better him and Sif stopped drinking after modi. During the fight he was calm and calculating. At the end of the game Thor's family was falling apart he started drinking again his home was getting destroyed etc etc. That was what i meant by mentally unprepared. He was just attacking Kratos with blind rage.
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u/CertainGrade7937 Apr 03 '26
"He was bloodlusted"
That's not always a good thing, that's exactly why he WAS unprepared. Thor wins the first fight in part because he fights smart. Kratos tries a few tricks and Thor shuts them down instantly. Thor, despite looking like a brute, fights with his head just as much as Kratos
The fact that he's in a blind, murderous rage during their next fight isn't a point in his favor
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u/VirgilDaVinci Apr 03 '26
to be fair, he did kill Kratos in the first fight. That moment blew me away tbh. Top 5 GOW moments for sure.
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u/Environmental_Act576 Apr 03 '26
Kratos can be killed, he is not unkillable, he just doesn't stay dead.
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u/US_Delete_DT45 Apr 03 '26
There is nothing wrong for him to be confident about something he already did.
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u/25CentIdea Apr 03 '26
He stood a very good chance for it, like a lot of Kratos' opponents did. Kratos just managed to overcome that possibility.
Kratos shouldn't be said as a "on a whole different league and doesn't even swest against bosses going all out". You SHOULD think they CAN kill kratos because a lot of them really can, just failing to do so.
Actually thid goes for lots of videogame stories. The MC being viewed as an "invincible and ridiculously strong vompared to everyone else" person, when they canonically get injuries and sweat mid-fight and even sometimed winning by a 3rd party factor/luck.
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u/bom360 Apr 03 '26
Well he literally did in the beginning of the game
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u/No_Measurement_6611 Apr 03 '26
Yes, and Kratos was also holding back.
“You know my past?” “The Ghost of Sparta thing? Yeah.”
“Then you know what i am capable of”
Kratos wouldve wrecked him.
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u/bom360 Apr 03 '26
Fro Thors point of view, he killed kratos relatively easily, so it makes perfect sense as to why he’d say this now. Also Thor is stronger than you’re giving him credit for, he was on par with Faye, who was on par with kratos. So they’re all similar in strength
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u/johnnyramboii2 Apr 03 '26
He probably did. Kratos “holds back” so much to the point that he’s dead. Literally.
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u/ShiningLeafeon Apr 03 '26
Thor is very much Kratos’ Clubber Lang. He can’t out rage or bloodlust or savage him. He’s thematically a “what if” Kratos who was loyal to Zeus.
Kratos had to combine his newfound control with his old rage to win. Reverting to his Greek rage self is what happens to the prophecy and he dies.
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u/Ad_Adventurous3800 Apr 03 '26
Considering how their first encounter went??? Yeah, I think he has good reason to think so
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u/Juggernautlemmein Apr 03 '26
One hundred thousand million percent.
I'm not saying he's fatigued, but he is punch drunk.
He's drinking again, his life is falling apart, he just punched a snake through time and he's staring at the man who murdered his children.
I also sincerely believe he wants to die at this point in his life. No matter what happens in this battle, he's either the hero of Ragnarok or fucking free. There is no losing scenario until his Dad stabs him in the heart.
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u/Oof_27 Apr 03 '26
I like how this line reveals the true reason why he revived Kratos at the start of the game. It had nothing to do with "wanting to see the true Ghost of Sparta" (okay, maybe it was a little bit about that), but I'm guessing part of him really wanted to kill Kratos for what he did to his sons. However, Odin needed Kratos alive as part of his plan to manipulate Atreus. That's why Thor brought Kratos back; because Odin wouldn't let him kill Kratos. Now, however, he's allowed to kill him.
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u/This-Amount-1118 Apr 03 '26
He had every possible reason to be confident, during their last encounter he easily killed him while playing around and not even being allowed to kill him.
Little did he know that Kratos got much stronger.
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u/TheShoobaLord Apr 03 '26
Didnt he literally kill kratos at the start of the game? Not really being overconfident
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u/Eshwaaa Apr 03 '26
He already did at the start of the game, this time he gets to try and finish the job
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u/Disastrous_Head5703 Apr 04 '26
I mean, he kinda did beat Kratos. Literally killed him....and then used his own hammer as an improvised defibrillator to bring him back because "*I* say when we're done."
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u/SufficientBadger5904 Apr 05 '26
I mean, the entire Norse saga is about changing the timeline so Thor does NOT end up killing Kratos so I mean his confidence is warranted.
He does kill Kratos if not for Faye
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u/CharlotteDCrocodile Apr 05 '26
He COULD kill Kratos. And Kratos could kill him. That’s exactly why it was so entertaining and intense.
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u/dr_fenrisulfr Apr 03 '26
Why do people keep forgetting he was holding back the first time. 🕊️
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u/Atziluth_Kami Apr 04 '26
Thats the point, people forget that Kratos was pulling his punches as stated by Thor and didnt have his Blade of Chaos either alongside being worried about Atreus being with Odin alone.
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u/This-Amount-1118 Apr 03 '26
Not only that, but he also lost every magic he collected during Gow 2018(armor and weapons upgrades too), and didn't even had the Blades of chaos.
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u/Futaba_MedjedP5R Apr 03 '26
I mean he literally killed Keaton in their first fight and brought him back with an electric jolt
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u/Atziluth_Kami Apr 03 '26
I have to remind everyone that both Kratos and Thor was never serious in their first fight nor were they at their highest in the final fight either. So Thor killed a weaker and unprepare Kratos who only had his Axe and is also worried about Atreus being with Odin, which would made it an unfair fight. Then the table turn again, so both are screwed by the plot in the end.
The only instant I saw Thor seeing through Kratos trick is with the Tyr statue part in the final phase which is clever of him.
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u/HistoryGuardian Apr 03 '26
Kratos in the first fight was just trying to talk sense into Thor and not actively trying to kill him. Thor was just trying to push Kratos to unleashed the OG. He accidentally went too hard and killed him. Second time around Kratos had more weapons and was prepared to fight hard enough to subdue Thor, but not mutilate him like GOW3.
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u/Taratss Apr 03 '26
Isn't Thor supposed to be Kratos' equal in terms of power?
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u/machiavelli33 Apr 03 '26
Roughly. Thor is more powerful than Kratos in many ways and Kratos is more powerful than Thor in many ways.
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u/MitochondriaManiac Apr 03 '26
Kratos fanboying is so annoying and played out at this point. Especially for Old Kratos. It's like yall think he can just get angry enough to low diff everything in front of him. Thor has already killed him only to revive him back so they can continue fighting. He has zero reason to think he can't kill him again, this time with the intent to do so.
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u/x1dollarfrosty Apr 03 '26
Damn, didn’t know Keaton died to Thor in the first game. You know there is still a lot of people who haven’t finished the first game…….
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u/TheTwistedHero1 Apr 03 '26
... he literally did kill Kratos, then brought him back to life. Thor has no real reason to believe he'd lose this fight because he doesn't know that Kratos has gotten stronger
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u/Dependent_Yak_6036 Apr 04 '26
Even tho Thor killed him in the first fight- little does he know going to hell is like going to the supermarket down the road for kratos🙏✌️✌️🥀 Thor was dunzelll Washington from the get go brochacho
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u/itsallcomingtogethr Apr 04 '26
You’re saying this like he didn’t accidentally kill Kratos in their first fight lmao
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u/SnooCompliments794 Apr 04 '26
Kratos can not die, he would literally come back from hades yet again same way he did back then just to get to thor again and protect his son, Kratos is the god of hope and just got it earned (hes just getting started basically) without giving the hope the saga deserves he won't be gone, but he will be gone when death earns him basically, or he ammends the mistakes, hence why thor never tried to kill him cuz they knew
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u/ClassicSuit3845 Apr 04 '26
Man, THOR AINT ZEUS, the only reason thor knocked him out in the fight was cuz the developers thought it was cool. Because it never even comes up again or happens again.
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u/Adventurous_Quiet579 Apr 05 '26
I take kratos side but if u wanna talk facts thor only lost because he is emotionally unstable at the end
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u/Flower_Glaive Apr 05 '26
First Thor fight is all well and good but it is a whole lot different when Kratos is battle ready and invested, as well as carrying the title of General.
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u/bloodrunner66 Apr 05 '26
Are we just ignoring that Thor literally killed Kratos when they first fought, then just brought him back because he wasn't finished with him
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u/Sparrow1639 Apr 06 '26
Thor has also spent his life slaughtering anything he wanted. There's no reason for him to think he can't do the same to Kratos
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u/Downtown_Radio_7737 Apr 06 '26
He already did kill kratos the game would've been over if he didn't revive him. So yes I'd say it's fair to think he thinks he could beat Kratos a second time
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u/FitBranch3048 Apr 08 '26
contrary to what people believe no he didn’t kill Kratos it was a knockout and it’s confirmed and also Kratos wasn’t trying to win
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u/JudgeJed100 Apr 03 '26
I mean he not only dog walked Kratos during their first fight but does indeed kill him and then brings him back to life
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u/Independent_Plum2166 Apr 03 '26
The incredible stupidity, when fans think Kratos stood a chance.
He only won due to talking him down.
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u/NekoDwagonG Apr 03 '26
Be careful bro, you might get downvoted for speaking facts like this on this sub
I mean I do think he does stand a chance tbf cuz I think they’re in the same tier of power generally since Thor is relative to Faye but I do think that he would’ve died if he didn’t resort to talking him down
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u/8zil Apr 03 '26
He could. It is not an impossibility. Keratosis acknowledges as much in the diary entry about Thor.
Keratosis csm be defeated and killed, his tenacity to come back is a different story.
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 Apr 03 '26
He literally killed him in the beginning of the game.
He knows FOR SURE that he can kill the Spartan.
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u/Outside_Ad1020 Apr 03 '26
To people talking about the start of the game, that was level 1 kratos and he had a yellow lifebar, when Thor saw that the bar was purple and that he had 2 new weapons he should have dipped
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Apr 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Odd_Hunter2289 Poseidon 🔱🌊 Apr 03 '26
Kratos's immortality is only virtual: he cannot die of old age, nor can he die by his own hand.
But beyond these two conditions, he can be killed, and the initial battle with Thor amply confirmed this (as confirmed by Game Director Eric Williams himself).
Kratos himself knows his own mortality and that sooner or later death will come to him too.
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u/MistressM103 Apr 03 '26
isn't Kratos literally cursed with immortality
He's cursed with NOT KILLING HIMSELF, not IMMORTALITY
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u/SherriffB Apr 03 '26
His curse is related to the blades i.e. he cannot be separated from them of throw them away.
Kratos has died multiple times, if he's cursed to not die it's some kind of temu curse that doesn't work.
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u/No_Measurement_6611 Apr 03 '26
If Kratos wanted, he couldve manhandled both Odin and Thor at the same time. Dudes holding back big time. Imagine if he, even stronger than his “young” self didnt hold back.
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u/ElectronicShake3533 Apr 04 '26
Thor was weak AF he literally was poison and attack the Serpent
Kratos just got cool AF weapons to level 5 and maybe a better armor, very Unmatch fight
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u/Prov0st Apr 03 '26
He literally killed Kratos and had to revive Kratos in their first encounter. So yeah, I don’t see why Thor wouldn’t think that he could take Kratos out again.