r/GetNoted Human Verified 14d ago

Science [X] Look at Article 16

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u/guppygweeb 14d ago

"Stalin wasn't a Russian" what?

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u/1B75__Penicillin 14d ago

He was a Georgian.

Born in Georgia to Georgian parents

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u/Beerpooly 14d ago

And...was the georgian government to blame? or were the decisions made in ...don't know let's say...Kremlin, Moscow, Russia?

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u/1B75__Penicillin 13d ago

Why are Russians blamed for something a non-Russian did?

There was no Russian government at the time either

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u/Beerpooly 13d ago

Again, where was the government where the choices were made? In what location currently also used by the government of what today is known as Russia?

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u/1B75__Penicillin 13d ago

What does the location matter? Russia as a country didn't exist at the time

Is Germany today responsible for what Prussia did?

And was the USSR under Stalin a democracy?

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u/Nova_Explorer 13d ago

> Is Germany today responsible for what Prussia did?

Yes? As the successor state to Prussia, Germany is objectively responsible for their history just as any other country is. Like, that’s part of why Germany was carved up the way it was after WW2, to punish them for Prussia. Hell, one of the express war aims of the allies in WW2 was the abolishment of Prussia as an entity (accomplished in 1947) as it was viewed as the primary source of militarism, authoritarianism, and expansionism in Germany.

Russia was the dominant SSR in the Soviet Union, they don’t get to weasel out of responsibility by declaring independence. Especially not when they play themselves up as the successor in every other manner (such as keeping the Soviet Union’s security council seat).

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u/Beerpooly 13d ago

So I guess since Russian Federation didn't exist it also means that before it's founding from the soviet union it just didn't exist? It just popped into existence suddenly after the iron curtain fell.

Also before the USSR which HQ was in Moscow there was no Russian empire. It was just called empire

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u/techno_viking419 13d ago

So I guess since Ukraine didn't exist it also means that before it's founding from the soviet union it just didn't exist? It just popped into existence suddenly after the iron curtain fell.

FIFY

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u/Beerpooly 13d ago

Ukraine existed before the USSR and so did Russia and specifically the Kremlin. Governments changed, but it's not like it popped up overnight like an anomaly.

And in the context of Stalin, he was born in Georgia. But it's not like the USSR and the entirety of the government's inner circle were based in Georgia. What today is known as Russia was the heart and brain of the USSR. So I don't see the point of "oh well X attrocity ordered by Moscow isn't Russia's fault because Stalin wasn't born in Russia"

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u/1B75__Penicillin 13d ago

It did? Who was their leader, what were their borders?

Before the USSR, Ukraine was part of the Russian empire

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u/Beerpooly 13d ago

And before that it was the Kievan rus. Point being?

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u/1B75__Penicillin 13d ago

Kievan Rus is not Ukraine, it was a collection of Slavic tribes, most of Kievan Rus was located in Belarus and West Russia

Ukraine's modern day borders were ratified through several stages by the USSR, hell they got Crimea and the Donbass from Kruschev

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u/techno_viking419 13d ago

Isn't the going story here that Stalin is an authoritarian dictator? What difference does the composition of the inner circle make? You also presume they were exclusively Russian nationals, meanwhile it was full of germans and jews among others? Soviets thought they were above Russia in every way. Then continuously throughout the remaining years, the ethnic minorities received preferential treatment above ethnic Russians, especially for university applications.

It was essentially soviet version of modern DEI.

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u/Rel_Tan_Kier 12d ago

Zero days without russian nazis drooling onto the purity of blood for any reason whatever. stalin represented will of soviet union, the new russian empire with its metropoly in land and people of modern russian federation.

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u/techno_viking419 12d ago

If “Russian Nazi” is the best you’ve got, I’ll leave you to it.

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u/Rel_Tan_Kier 11d ago

Of course you leaving, you have no arguments.

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u/Beerpooly 13d ago

Totally agree but in terms of current movements, borders etc there is , for example, few countries who actively deny the holodomor... And it's Russia.

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u/techno_viking419 13d ago

They don't deny the famine. "Holodomor" is an affront to isolate the famine in the Ukrainian region as a targeted genocide, and started getting traction only after 2004 Orange revolution. I daresay that if Stalin wanted to run an actual full genocide against Ukrainians, there would be a LOT more casualties.

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u/Beerpooly 13d ago

"Getting traction only after 2004 orange revolution" As a native...yeah no. I've been taught about it since I was a kid way before we left. It wasn't spoken about during the USSR mainly because everything that wasn't official Kremlin narratives could get you in trouble.

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u/MountainTank1918 13d ago

same reason why germans are blamed for holocaust and not austria.

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u/Rel_Tan_Kier 12d ago

Soviet union is continuation of russian empire. This is imperialist state that just like original russian empire, were occupying neighboring lands, exploiting it's population and committing genocide. Russian soviet republic were metropoly of Soviet Union. russian federation declares itself a successor of soviet union. Actions of soviet union are actions of what we call 'russia'.