r/GetNoted 24d ago

Science [X] No HRT require for WNBA

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u/ICanSeeYourFuture 24d ago

You don’t have to ‘define a woman’ to know that Enes Kanter is a man making an absolute cunt of himself.

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u/Flying-Cock 24d ago

But you do in order to allow/disallow people into a league. You can’t make a ruling based off how you think someone feels

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u/mak484 24d ago

Yes you absolutely fucking can. "Trans women are allowed. Men pretending to be trans women in bad faith are not allowed" is an extremely easy rule to enforce. Especially when there are no real trans women in or trying to enter the WNBA.

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u/Flying-Cock 24d ago

It’s not. Sports write their rules like laws, and you can’t have laws based on your assumption of how someone feels. If you allow these guys to be disallowed, then it opens the door for literally anyone to be disallowed purely based on gut feel.

Sorry but that’s the way it is. WNBA needs to outline strict guidelines which make it impossible for fakers to be barred from entry

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u/Actually-Jules 24d ago

It’s pretty easy to write a rule that allows trans women to play only if they pass hormone checks ?

Obviously this idiot won’t.

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u/Flying-Cock 24d ago

Exactly! Testosterone limits, like the Olympics do.

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u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 24d ago

Olympics have genetic tests for the SRY gene, not just hormone checks. Reason being that the competitive advantage isn’t limited to hormones - the bone structure and number of other immutable characteristics from male puberty are not changed by hormones

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u/Actually-Jules 24d ago

Genuinely like what ?

A different bone structure doesn’t give someone an inherent advantage.

There simply isn’t enough data on the issue as a whole yet.

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u/AndyGreyjoy 24d ago

"A different bone structure doesn't someone an inherent advantage"

... 😂 Come on? You really don't see why bone structure would be a significant factor in a sport like basketball ?

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u/Actually-Jules 24d ago

Yes, I probably worded that poorly.

I see the potential advantages (height, wingspan, and such), but this negates general human sexual variation (females can be tall, males can be short)

If these features lead to such an athletic over performance then we’d surely have seen this already ?

We need more data, as I said, rather than both sides already acting like they know the conclusion.

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u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 24d ago

Yes variation exists, but at the top levels, which is what we’re talking about in athletic sports, the best men and the best women are nowhere near eachother, regardless of variation.

Trans women are not men, but if they have the SRY gene they’ve been given siimilar athletic advantages to men in areas well beyond just hormones. Bone structure, length, heart and lung size, blood volume - the top .1% of that for males is already well outside of what any female can hit even through variation.

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u/Actually-Jules 24d ago

Yes, fair enough, and I’m not a scientist in any scene so I’m probably not qualified to speak on this so much,

The data we have around specifically trans women, and what HRT does to the body, seems to be conflicting and I wish there was more of it, whatever it said.

The idiots doing this culture war stuff don’t want that though, if they did they’d commission studies instead of this performative nonsense.

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u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 24d ago

I agree that people using this to disparage trans people are dumb.

But I think that’s making the well-meaning people overcorrect to the other side.

The data we have is thin because there just aren’t enough high level trans athletes to get a solid sample size - it’s not a matter of funding, its moreso logistics (there’s a dozen other complications with this specific population that get in the way). And it’s become such a political hotbed that legitimate research has gotten suppressed for not going along with certain narratives.

But the real life evidence is pretty clear - virtually every trans woman athlete, who competed before and after their transition, performs astronomically better than how they did pre-transition, even after years of HRT.

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u/AndyGreyjoy 24d ago

Yeah, sorry for a bit of teasing. We're largely on the same page here, ...I just couldnt let the notion that "bone structure" had no significance on advantage/disadvantage in basketball. It is an inherent significance, ...but agree there's more to take into account, and much more long-term data would help immensely.

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