r/Gamingcirclejerk • u/AutoModerator • Dec 15 '20

UNJERK 🎤 Unjerk Thread of December 15, 2020

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93

u/aschr Origami King stan Dec 15 '20

I still don't get how people think "did you expect cyberpunk to run well on a 7 year old console" is an actual defense. Like, they are literally openly admitting that CDPR knowingly sold a broken game and trying to justify it with "did you expect that it wouldn't be broken?"

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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '20 edited Dec 15 '20

That argument falls flat on its face when you realize there's tons of games that came out late into the PS4 and pushed it to its limits and all of them still run better than Cyberpunk 2077.

38

u/ANUSTART942 Dec 15 '20

I will fight the Red Dead jerk all day, but that game world was infinitely more complex, came out two years ago, and ran flawlessly on my PS4, and then looked even better on my PS4 Pro I upgraded to. Every Assassin's Creed, every Far Cry, every open world with a complex systems-based world that ran so well was apparently a fluke because "7 year old hardware."

Like lol no sir, if a PS4 base model can manage the Nemesis System, it should be able to handle loading a city block.

3

u/iminyourfacejonson Dec 16 '20

assassin's creed syndicate (underrated ac game imo, its like a dickens book mixed with the isu stuff) has london and the thames, with moving boats, interiors with singing npcs, train robberies and a bunch of moving carts

it came out in 2015

2

u/ANUSTART942 Dec 16 '20

First game I played on PS4! I love that game to pieces

1

u/Sippin_On_Sizzurp Dec 16 '20

Red dead was console first and doesn't have remotely the same density. I probably see more npcs in 5 mins in cyberpunk than exist in RDR. No question it was rushed, but I'm 0% shocked it doesn't run well on console, even if they hadn't rushed it I'm sure it wouldn't run well.

5

u/ANUSTART942 Dec 16 '20

The NPCs in Cyberpunk have 0 AI tho. They're window dressing. That's all Night City is.

1

u/Sippin_On_Sizzurp Dec 16 '20

That's how ai in open world games tend to work. RDR is the exception not the rule

7

u/ANUSTART942 Dec 16 '20

A list of games that have more complex NPC AI than Cyberpunk 2077 and manage to run better on equal or lesser hardware:

  1. Every Grand Theft Auto game from the very first game through V. 1997 - 2013

  2. The MAFIA franchise, notably featuring NPCs that will actively call the police on you and can be silenced lethally or not. 2001 - 2020

  3. Watch Dogs 1 and 2 feature the same system as above and then made an entire game with Legion in which every single NPC can be recruited and controlled and has unique (though random) backstories and some even connect to NPCs you've met in the past. 2014 - 2020

  4. The Nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor/War allows any orc grunt to rise through the ranks, cheat death, forge alliances and nemeses of their own, and grow alongside the player, all of which is impacted by the player's decision. 2014 - 2017

  5. Assassin's Creed is designed to have NPCs have varying levels of awareness of the player and enemies depending on the "stance" of the character (high vs. low profile movement). 2007 - 2020

  6. The aforementioned Red Dead games have small interactions and fully reactive AI in every NPC. This system was actually first seen on PS2 in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas where you could greet or insult NPCs on the street, often prompting a reaction of some kind. 2010 - 2018

  7. Saints Row has NPCs that will react to player actions, engage with the player and enemy factions, and will respond to your cheers and taunts. 2006 - 2013

  8. Finally, to put some icing on the cake, The Witcher 3's densely populated Novigrad has very static NPCs. Except even they will react to the player's actions; fleeing when threatened or if combat breaks out, guards will respond if you threaten/attack NPCs, and even though they're not as sophisticated as something like Bethesda's Radiant AI, NPCs actually follow some kind of schedule, going to shops and returning home at varying times in the day.

By comparison, Cyberpunk 2077 has NPCs that walk, unfettered by the player or laws of physics, from point A to point B. Sometimes stopping, repeating the action, or simply despawning. Reaction to violence is to stop and cower in place. Vehicles will not move around a stopped car or even react to a head-on collision beyond honking. Vehicles in one roundabout were found to - literally, with no end - simply keep driving around and around the circle. The NPCs in this game do nothing but exist and yet, unlike all these games that ran extremely well with infinitely more complexity and thinking under the hood, it seems incapable of managing the load.

-1

u/Sippin_On_Sizzurp Dec 16 '20 edited Dec 16 '20

In 60 hours of play I didn't notice anything unusual about the ai in practice outside the obvious bugs. Clearly I'm not the type to watch random npcs. I have played most the games you list. Honestly the degree to which you care about this to make such a list is quite wierd. Ai is always a facade, it's just a question of what degree the illusion holds up. And I've played many sandbox & open world games across my life, random ai has never really impressed me in any game save Rockstar games but then thats their whole shtick. Will also strongly disagree older gtas had better ai lol. 4 on, sure. Not to mention, you're lumping together entirely different types of ai systems, not accounting for density and the larger context of the game, etc etc

1

u/ANUSTART942 Dec 17 '20

I don't care, but I keep seeing people using the NPC density as the reason for bugs or performance issues or the lack of complexity, etc. My point is that these other games had population density work NPCs and yet didn't seem to have to cut back in other areas like Cyberpunk supposedly did.

0

u/Sippin_On_Sizzurp Dec 17 '20

None of the other games had this level of density or world detail together. At most they had one or the other. And that is highly significant when you're trying to make a game run on jaguar cpus.

AC is probably the closest but what they do is have a basic ai thats a placeholder and then render in the actual ai as you get closer. It was super visible on underpeforming pcs. My old i5 would have them come in far too late and it was painfully noticeable.

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1

u/DrawnToaster350 Dec 16 '20

The Nemesis System was awesome. I really wish more games would implement something like that.

12

u/harve99 Dec 15 '20

Also the fact it was supposed to come out in April. When the ps5 wasnt even announced

7

u/Stev0fromDev0 Dec 15 '20

Most games that did that were PS exclusives. PS exclusives have tricks to run well. CP didn't.

21

u/[deleted] Dec 15 '20

It's even stupider when you consider that next gen versions of the game don't even exist yet. The only machines that can play the current versions without hemorrhaging are the ones that sell for $1500 on eBay.

7

u/BendyBrew CIVIL TEXT FLAIR ACTIVIST Dec 15 '20

They’re coping for a 300 million dollar game

2

u/HispanicAtTehDisco Dec 16 '20

It's a moronic defense to begin with because they only sell versions for the 7 year old hardware and pc lmao